WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:29.900 [BIANCA FRAZE]: This is an interview with Rishad Tobaccowala as a part of the Indo-American Heritage Museum's Masala Chat oral history project. The interview is being conducted on 29th of February 2016 in Mr. Tobaccowala's office at the Publicis group. Rishad Tobaccowala is being interviewed by Bianca Fraze of the Indo-American Heritage Museum. I hope I said everything right. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:01:01.800 Okay so this project will be used alongside the Indo-American Heritage Museum, also included with the Beyond Bollywood exhibit that the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center will have. It's a traveling exhibit that they will have going on throughout the country about June of 200--either year or next year, like around the summer time. So the photo as well as any other material you have will be included on our website. 00:01:01.800 --> 00:01:09.500 (background chatter) 00:01:09.500 --> 00:01:24.000 Okay so, please state and spell your first and last name. [RISHAD TOBACOWALA]: Rishad Tobaccowala. R I S H A D T O B A C C O W A L A. 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:26.800 [BF]: When and where were you born? 00:01:26.800 --> 00:01:34.700 [RT]: I was born in Bombay, India, now known as Mumbai, India, June 17th 1959. 00:01:34.700 --> 00:01:44.500 [BF]: In which part of--what to do prefer--Bombay or Mumbai? [RT]: Bombay [BF]: Bombay. Which part of Bombay were you raised in? 00:01:44.500 --> 00:01:54.600 [RT]: I lived in south Bombay, so I spent my entire life somewhere between Malabar Hill and Nariman Point, that particular area. 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:58.300 [BF]: In going up, which languages did you speak? 00:01:58.300 --> 00:02:01.300 [RT]: Primarily spoke English and some Hindi. 00:02:01.300 --> 00:02:02.900 [BF]: How many languages do you know? 00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:04.000 [RT]: Two-- English and Hinidi. 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:13.600 [BF]: Okay, so in India, in any and all aspects of schooling, like, what did you--where did you go? 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:47.900 [RT]: So I went to school from the third grade to tenth grade in a school called Campion, Campion school. And it was in South Bombay. I then went for four years and I got a degree--it was called the ICSC degree there. And for four years I went to a college called St. Xavier's College, which is part of the University of Bombay. And I got a bachelor's degree in mathematics and economics, a BSC. 00:02:47.900 --> 00:02:53.200 [BF]: And did your family practice any particular religion? 00:02:53.200 --> 00:03:12.000 [RT]: My father was a Muslim. My mother was a Hindu. They sent me to Jesuit school and they worked for a Zoroastrian company which is called Tata's. So I had the opportunity of going to churches, temples, and mosques. 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.000 [BF]: And your parents what do they do for a living? 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:54.000 [RT]: Both of them worked in the Tata group, which is a large India conglomerate. My mother spent many years at a company called Tisco, which was later known as Tata Steel. My father spent many years beginning of his career in a company called Telco, which is now known as Tata Motors. But he spent the bulk of his career and he ended his career at a company called Walter's, which among other things makes--made air conditioning equipment. And they both retired from the Tata group. 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:57.800 [BF]: And do you have any siblings? 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:07.300 [RT]: Yes, I have one sister, who also grew up in India, and now she lives in San Diego, California. Her name is [Morena.] 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:10.500 [BF]: Older or younger sister? [RT]: Younger, four and half years younger. 00:04:12.200 --> 00:04:20.000 [BF]: And during your time living in India, how would you describe that? Like, what was your life like? 00:04:20.000 --> 00:05:23.000 [RT]: We were fortunate in that my parents, being both professionals, we lived a life which was highly--for India--well off, in that we never lacked for food or shelter or education. And we, from the time I remember, we always had a car, with a driver. And my sister and I shared a room. It would be just the two of us sharing a room. And we lived in a wonderful place called Little Gibbs Road in Malabar Hill near a park. School was terrific outside of the fact that sometimes I didn't like working too hard. And made a lot of friends and--both in school as well as the two buildings I lived in, which is Las Palmas, the WoodLands on Pedder Road. 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:27.300 [BF]: When did you come to the United States? 00:05:27.300 --> 00:06:02.000 [RT]: I came ,to the United States twice. I first came to the United States when I was 11 and 12 years old when my father was transferred to Manhattan for two years, working for the Tata group to run their New York office. I lived in Manhattan and went to school for a couple of years there, the public school. And then returned to India. And then the second time I came was in 1980 for a MBA at the University of Chicago. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.000 [BF]: And during the two years you lived in Manhattan, what was that like? 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:51.600 [RT]: It was absolutely terrific because I discovered three things which I had not seen before in India. So when I came to Manhattan it was in the years 1970 to 1972. And India, in Bombay at that time did not have television. So I saw television for the first time when I was here. The other was--I also--India--one of the key things in growing up in India, was sort of a license regime which did not like imports, so you did not, you know you did not see a lot of things like toys, and chewing gum and chocolates, and all the things that kids liked. 00:06:51.600 --> 00:07:32.000 And in the US you basically had these amazing stores filled with things, including FAO Schwarz, which at that time was the world's biggest toy store. So, from--the really interesting thing was this amazing amount of television that I could see, and these amazing amount of things that used to be rationed in India, but we had a lot of. I liked it so much and I also found school very easy, that I wanted to stay. However, my parents decided that I was too young to stay by myself or with friends in the US, so we returned to India, kicking and screaming. 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.000 [BF]: So did you have a favorite television show? 00:07:35.000 --> 00:08:36.000 [RT]: I did! I had--my favorite television show was Star Trek. And Star Trek was, I think at that time had just maybe started in, sort of you know, started in syndication. So it was no longer a first show--or maybe it was still showing. So it was Star Trek, there were--I loved all the Lucy shows at that time. Another show that I liked a lot was Batman. Shows like The Munsters, and what was particularly interesting is, it was a year where there were sometimes you came across televisions that were color, and there were sometimes televisions that were black and white. So it wasn't--color wasn't prevalent on televisions everywhere. I remember the hotel we stayed at for about a month before we moved into an apartment had a black and white television. So my initial television was black and white, and when I saw color it was just terrific. 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:43.000 [BF]: So in 1980, if I remember, you came here for an MBA. [RT]: Yes. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:47.000 [BF]: And what was that like since you're already familiar? 00:08:47.000 --> 00:09:27.300 [RT]: It was...extremely positive, on some fronts, and extremely challenging on others. The challenging was that it was a very difficult school. Then all of a sudden you were surrounded by students who were very good. And, what I discovered, were much older, in that they were four or five years older, many of them had work experience that I did not have. And the other is, when you grow up in India, you learn to focus on your studies and then you have friends. You did not spend as much time with the arts and with sports, besides cricket. So you don’t understand that. 00:09:27.300 --> 00:10:29.000 And so it was a bit of an adjustment, because everybody here seemed to be very fluent in arts and sports, which I did not know, like baseball, like American football. They tended to be older. They tended to be--in India we sort of grew up being told to not speak unless you know. I realized later on that in the US you spoke whether you knew or you did not know. So in those ways, plus that I was now by myself away from home for the first time, as well as I was exposed to, you kn--in the very first year one of the coldest Chicago winters ever, were tough parts. The good parts were I was doing relatively well in school, I made some friends. And I adjusted and I liked America, anyway. And the only other challenging part, especially then, was the lack of spicy food available anywhere. So I discovered Tabasco sauce. 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:43.000 [BF]: So when you first arrived, since you were already familiar--some of your expectations, you know, you would adjusted for that, but how would you say when you went to school here for your MBA--how did that meet your expectations, or did it? 00:10:43.000 --> 00:11:53.900 [RT]: It did! So for instance, the MBA was extraordinarily great in that I learned a lot. The school was terrific. There were two challenges, one was it was a very tough school and so I have been used to doing very well without much work, and now I have to work a lot, and sometimes did very well and sometimes just did well. So there was an adjustment in that format. The other was I was one of only four Indians in the entire school. And in the 1980s that's what it was—so there were about four Indians in both the first and second year combined. Of the school, maybe five or six but not too many more. And to give you an idea, in—this year, at the University of Chicago, the entry class--after students from United States, are students from India. So the class has something just under 50 Indian students. So they're about a hundred Indian students in the first and second year program. When I was here there were four. 00:11:53.900 --> 00:11:55.400 [BF]: You were one of the pioneers! 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:08.100 [RT]: Yes, I was one of the pioneers. In fact, the real pioneer was my father, was one was one first students at the University of Chicago in 1952. So, I was sort of a "bridge pioneer,” but now there are lots. 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:17.100 [BF]: I know that when you settled here long-term there must have been things you definitely missed about India. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:13:45.200 [RT]: I definitely did. I mean the three things I missed the most was I missed my parents, and my sister because they weren't there. And in those days, one must recognize that this was prior to the age of internet, Facebook, text messaging. So the way one communicated was if it was really, really urgent, or it was really, really special, you'd use the telephone, which was rare. So there was nothing like email. So the way you communicated was letters, and it took about 12 days for a letter from here to get there. So, there was a certain amount of homesickness. The other is I missed my friends, and that I missed sort of the--the friends you grew up with, and I grew up with friends 15-20 years in India, you can't replace exactly those type of friends here. And then I just missed sort of the sounds and smells, smells and sights, and foods of India, which again was--like even Devon Avenue was too far away from Hyde Park to get to. And it was a smaller Devon Avenue that was really far. And so for us, the highlight of our food was to eat a Greek gyro at 57th Street at a place called Salonica. Or, if someone had a car, we would get to Chinatown. 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:51.000 [BF]: Did you have frequent trips back to visit your family? 00:13:51.000 --> 00:14:12.600 [RT]: Yes, frequent trips in the fact that I was, again, extremely long, extremely expensive. So the frequent trip was I would basically go every summer, which basically meant I went between my two years and then I went after I finished my school and before I started work. 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:22.000 [BF]: So you settled long-term right after you finished, or would you say you started living in America? 00:14:22.000 --> 00:15:41.900 [RT]: I started living in America--in those days, when you graduated you had the opportunity to spend approximately one year getting training. If a company would sort of hire you. And one must remember that in 1980s, India was a little bit different than what it is today. The Indian economy only began to open up in 1990. Till 1980--in the 1980s, it continued to be what it had been in the 60s and 70s. It was what they called, “license Raj.” So what they managed to do is they managed to curtail supply. So even though demand was high, they would use things like rationing, and they would set wages, etc., and very high taxes. So you, you unless you own your own company, or you did not pay taxes, it was extremely unlikely that you would actually make money in India. So even my parents who were extremely senior, their salary was low, what they got a lot of benefits. So they got free housing and free cars and free medicine and things like that. And I was working for them, or--they were my parents, I didn’t have a company to come home to. And so I had decided that I was going to try to make it in the United States, so I was fortunate that 00:15:41.900 --> 00:16:21.000 I graduated and convinced a company—we’re still in same building as the company that I convinced, which is the Leo Burnett Company, at that time, which was the world's largest--or America's largest advertising agency, based in Chicago. And I began working, initially for a year, and then I got an extension, and it became two. And then I applied for a green card. And it was about 5 or 6 years in, where it very clear to me I wasn't going to go back, and my parents adjusted to the fact that I was going to live in the United States. 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.000 [BF]: That's nice that they were okay with that, it seems like they— 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:51.500 [RT]: Well, they were as okay as one could be. They would have preferred me coming back, but however they were realistic in that there was not much to come back to. Very different than 2016. Today, 2016, there are a lot of Indian students who go back, because India is growing, you can make a lot of money, you have lots of opportunities in India. And you can go back and forth, it was very different then. 00:16:52.000 --> 00:17:00.000 [BF]: So you started working for Leo Burnett right after you graduated. Then when did you start working for Publis? 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:53.000 [RT]: Publicis? So, I worked--my career was relatively...simple, so in 1982 I joined the Leo Burnett Company. It was based in a building call the Prudential Building, which you can actually see from here. It's that building above this building with brown and gray, right? And it had been based there, and I spent my first two years there. While they were in that building, they were building this building. And in 1984 I moved into this building. I worked for the Leo Burnett advertising agency, rising from being a media buyer to an account director in about 10 years, at which stage I basically built the case that--I moved into what was the direct marketing department, which is different than advertising. 00:17:53.000 --> 00:18:18.800 Advertising turned into basically, we buy television and print, and direct marketing was things like direct mail. And I moved into the direct marketing department and spent a couple of years, and at that stage, which was…1993-1994, I built the case that there was this new thing called interactive marketing that was coming. Which is things like CompuServe and Prodigy, and America Online was being born. 00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:56.800 So I launched the Leo Burnett interactive marketing department, launched a company for Leo Burnett which is an interactive agency called Giant Step with a couple of my colleagues. And then came back, and in fact I left the building, remained a Leo Burnett employee, went to Greektown for a couple of years. Came back to the building to help Leo Burnett Media. So, Leo Burnett had a creative department that did the ads, and the media department would place the ads. To make Leo Burnett Media a separate company called StarComm, which is also still in this building. And then I spent a lot of time at StarComm, and when I was at Starcom, Publicis Group bought the Leo Burnett Company. 00:18:56.800 --> 00:19:37.600 Which was 2002. So that's how I became a member of the Publicis Group. But I still worked in StarComm Mediavest Group, and then that became Publicis Group Media. And then we bought companies like Digitaz and Razor Fish, which are large digital companies. And I, overtime I…played various roles across these companies, and approximately a year-and-a-half ago I was promoted to the Board of Publicis. And so now I'm at the Publicis Group level, that's my card, basically has two addresses of Chicago and Paris. And that occurred in 2014. 00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:52.900 So I've been in the Publicis Group since 2002, working in the various companies. I've been working at the Group level since 2014. And I spend a lot of time between here and Paris. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:11.500 [BF]: Yeah, I was doing a little research about you before the interview, and it seems like you are the guy that people go to when it comes to media and advertising and marketing, but also being relevant, and I think it shows your prestige that you’ve built over the years-- 00:20:11.600 --> 00:21:22.400 [RT]: Yes, well it’s--I don't know if it's prestige or if I've fooled people, but basically I was fortunate, and you know a big piece of advice I give people, is there are three reasons why people succeed...that are things they don't control. There are some things that you control. So what you control is how hard you work, you can control that. What field of work you choose, sometimes you can control that. And how persistent you are when you have--when you face setbacks, you can kind of control that. Those are things that successful people tend to control. They work very hard, they find an area that are kind of very good at, and they tend to be persistent. However, all of of those things account for less than half of why some someone succeeds, okay? The other three reasons that people succeed have to do with luck, which is far greater than what most people say, which is you end up at the right place at the right time, right? There is timing which is you start getting interested in something at the very same time it becomes interesting for the rest of the world. 00:21:22.400 --> 00:22:15.800 So I started getting interested, early, in things like digital and the internet. And started talking about it. So as it grew, I became--I was one of the few people talking about it. So as it grew and grew and grew and grew important, I became associated with something that was growth and future-oriented. So that was a combination of luck and timing. And then the third is people who basically are your bosses are people who give you chances. And I keep telling people that a lot of what happens is you actually succeed because of chances, chances of luck, chances of timing, and people giving you chances. And as a result of that I became known as someone who talked about the future of technology, the future of marketing, the future of business. And therefore I'm sort of seeing as a futurist, a visionary. And really all it was, was I was lucky, and I got in early. 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:31.000 (talking about recording equipment) 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:41.000 [BF]: So I saw that you have a large media presence, and you have quite a few social media accounts that you maintain, it's not just sitting there to say you have one. 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:55.700 [RT]: Right. [BF]: It seems like you are not only very active now, but as you mentioned, back when it was becoming a thing, you were also interested in online type of things. You've always been kind of a--like a techie kind of guy? 00:22:55.700 --> 00:23:58.300 [RT]: Well, I tell you I have been very interested in digital media, digital marketing, and what the future of communication will be. I'm very comfortable working with and understanding computers and technology. On the other hand, I am not a technology, techie guy in that I don't know how to write code. I couldn't fix a computer. I couldn't solder a hard board, and those kinds of stuff. But I've been very interested. And what I've done is I've tried to learn new things. So whenever I, you know--And I'm not necessarily early moving, right? So for instance, I understood the importance of email, and when a new types of email came on, which is why my email is--my personal email, is my first name at gmail.com. Very people have that, right? Because I was one of the early ones. I was very early AOL, for instance. 00:23:57.800 --> 00:24:53.000 On the other hand, there were certain things that I wasn't early on because I did not completely understand them because of where they were born. So let's look at social media, right? So when Twitter first came on, in its early goings-on, I did not seem to understand what it was for, because it seemed to me that people were saying what they were eating, and I couldn't understand why this was important. So I came onto Twitter later, right? So was Twitter was probably a year or two before I got on to Twitter. But then I began to understand what it was for besides...telling people what you were eating. I came onto Facebook a little later, still early but litter later because I didn't grow up with Facebook in college, and that's where it came to be. So I was a little later on social media, but once I started to use it, and I started use it primarily because I was somewhat quizzical as to why people were using it. 00:24:53.000 --> 00:25:35.000 And then I began to realize that it was extremely, extremely powerful. And I therefore said, "Hey we need to pay attention to this." And overtime, I therefore, as you rightfully say, I am relatively active--not super active, but active enough that-- much more active than most people are at my level. And I do it myself versus having someone else do it. I have an Instagram presence, a Twitter presence a LinkedIn presence, even a Google Plus presence, still. A Facebook presence, and I write my own blog. So I happen to have you know these six frontiers, which I work on all the time in different ways. 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:48.300 [BF]: Yeah I was particularly impressed with that because a lot of people who deal with media, especially online media, and they're usually like the head of their companies, they don't really have that online presence, so much. 00:25:48.300 --> 00:26:40.800 [RT]: Yeah, yeah. And the reason I do is there is a...there is a selfish element to it. In anything you do there’s always a some selfish element to it. You wouldn't do something if you didn't get something out of it. And you could get out of it, you know, pleasure. You can get out of learning, you could get out of it something else. So there's a selfish element of it where I was doing it to understand...how to use these media. And my stuff is, unless I use them, I won't understand. Which I why I tell everybody, "use it!" The second reason I began to--which is somewhat selfish-- I began to realize that could actually help build my own brand. That this was sort of a advertising vehicle. It was an outreach vehicle, and one that I could control, right? Why not do that? and free, to a certain extent, besides the time the size of time investment I've made. 00:26:40.800 --> 00:27:54.100 So there was a selfish element to it. But over time the reason it has become popular, and why I happen to have either, you know-- people who read what I write or look at my pictures, etc. is I started to make it much more about the people on the other end. So the idea was, I would not tell people about how cool I was, or what great places I went to, or things like that. I would basically--so you know, you won't see me with famous people, you won't see me saying look, "I'm in this important meeting." You will see pictures of travel, but it won't--you know, it will basically be, "here's something beautiful that I saw on the street." You will see me sharing some of the best readings that I have seen, even share the funniest things. So the whole idea is I post because of the reader, the viewer, right? much more than about me. And in--therefore I actually found a very interesting way of adding value to you. And then when you look at the stuff you say, "I like you because you give me things I like, and because of that I like you." Rather than me saying, "Look, I'm so cool." 00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:04.300 [BF]: Yeah you said you studied mathematics? [RT]: Yes [BF]: And it seems like--how would that transition to such a career? 00:28:04.300 --> 00:28:43.400 [RT]: So, I studied mathematics and economics primarily because I really wanted to study English and photography. But there were two problems with English and photography in India--and it's still true in the United States--which is it's very hard to get a job with English and photography, unless you're extremely talented. So a lot of people like taking pictures and a lot of people like writing. But very few writers make a living; very few photographers make a living. Now you don't write and make--take photographs just for a living. There are lots of other reasons why you do that. But you couldn't do that--and my parents basically said, "You must be crazy." 00:28:43.400 --> 00:29:45.400 What happened is in India, there were two types of schools. If you really wanted to be an engineer, which I wasn't really interested in, you went to school called the IIT, the Indian Institute of Technology, which is an incredible set of schools. Or you went to regular school, which as I went to, and there was only actually one or two subjects that actually were taught at the world-class level. And that was mathematics, was one of those, and economics was another. Why? because mathematics and economics did not require laboratories, right? A lot of subjects require big labs. India doesn't have big labs, or did not at that stage. My parents told me, "Hey look, you do this because it's a world-class level, but more importantly it'll make you learn how to think. And interestingly, mathematics actually makes you have--learn how to think very logically, right? Because you're trying to solve a problem, and you look at it very different. Economics basically teaches you the best you can about business, but in a pure form without really learning about business. 00:29:45.400 --> 00:30:50.300 When I came to the United States I'd got an MBA, but I got it in marketing and finance, because what I was very interested was--the economics and business off how to basically-- but I was very interested in learning about culture and people. And some my stuff was I wanted to choose a subject, I want to choose a career that is closest to the career that I actually wanted to do, which is photography and writing. But the business part of that career, which happens to be advertising, right? Which is why being in advertising is such a fantastic career because it's one of those places that allows you to blend art and science. So that's how I came in here. And I came into to the media department and the media department is a mathematical part of the company, and the creative department is the creative part of the company. And I joined the media department and then moved into account service, which is the business part of the company. So the math helped me...think. Math helped me do the media well, which then put forward into account service, which I knew how to think, but then I could also deal with the creatives. And so it all worked out. 00:30:50.300 --> 00:31:33.600 So see was a bit--luck! and I was lucky that Leo Burnett accepted me. Because when I came out of school, I only got one job offer. Because of two reasons: one, I probably was a stupid, bad interviewee... which probably explains a lot. But the other reason was I did not have a green card. So a lot of people would would not interview people who did not have the right residency permits... and fortunately somebody did, and...oddly I thought I was going to stay for two to three years, till I got my green card then I could go get another higher-paying, better job somewhere. But, 34 years later I'm in the same building. 00:31:33.600 --> 00:31:39.000 [talking about audio equipment] 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:59.000 [BF]: And, so seems like there's a nice blend of all of the things that you wanted to pursue, and all the things that you went to school for. So that sort of leads me to--when you initially wanted to study English and photography what kind of end goal--if you had pursued that, what, you know, would have been your goal as far as that? 00:31:59.000 --> 00:33:06.900 [RT]: So I like.... So one of the key things which I-- my end goal was to basically be-- the ability to tell stories, and share things. And it was because I love looking at photographs, I love reading stories, so I said I want to do the same thing. And what it was, was I probably had extremely fertile imagination. So I could make up stuff. So when I was in--when I was growing up I would make up stories. I would write stories. And in many ways what we do in marketing and advertising and in business, and in fact, over time, I've realized we do in life, is we all are stories and we tell stories, right? Joan Didion who is very famous novelist/essayist, wrote a very famous line: "We tell ourselves stories in order to live." Ok? and so what happened over time is...I had hoped to basically communicate and tell stories and I am communicating and telling stories. 00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:49.200 The big difference is I was communicating and telling other people's and brand's stories in advertising, 'til social media came about. So social media allows me to write my own stories. Now I don't write stories as in nonfic--in fiction. But I write large post on my blog, right? And I communicate So I can basically write stories about, "here's what I learned at Davos," or "here's what I learned at TED," which is my most recent. And I communicate in a way where people say, "this is much better than actually attending"--not better than--"it's almost like I was attending TED the way you wrote it, right? So in effect I try to do that. So it's a form of communication which I particularly like. 00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:57.400 [BF]: So going back to life in India and life in the US, what would you say are sort of the differences between the two? 00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:13.800 [RT]: So...India and the United States are more common than any two countries besides probably Britain and the United States, okay? And part of the reason that they're so common is because of Britain. 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:40.800 So India, like the United States was a British colony, the difference is it was a British colony till 1947 versus 1776. And as a result a lot of what--you know when you can have--besides cricket, which is the two countries don't share cricket, or the sports thing--a lot of the...ways that you can sort of-- there's a lot of commonality. 00:34:40.800 --> 00:35:31.800 They're democracies. They use English besides Hindi as a primary language. They understand tort and British law. I grew up reading the same books, the same magazines: Time Magazine, Life Magazine, etc. So there's a lot of commonalities. Both are, because they're democracies, it's about individuals. Both countries have freedom of religion. So there's a lot of commonalities, which for many, many years didn't come through until about 10-15 years ago, where after the Cold War-- I don't know if you notice, India and the United States are very close. But there was a particular period during the Cold War, India, supposedly nonaligned, tended to align more with the Soviet Union. The United States sort of aligned more with Pakistan, which was a bit of an issue for the Indians. 00:35:31.800 --> 00:36:37.000 But now these are two very common--I would say, you know, India-United States is probably as strong a relationship after probably, you know, Britain-United States, France-United States, etc. There's a lot of commonalities. Some differences. The differences, and I'm being somewhat generalizing, so it's not completely true. Or you cannot say there are lots of exceptions to these rules. The United States eventually is about the individual. India is eventually about the family. China is eventually about the country. In China, you do things because it's going to be great for China. In India you do things because it's going to be great for the family. In the United States you do things because it's going to be great for you, right? Now what happens is that when an Indians come here, they start becoming United-States-oriented. There are lots of United States people who have amazing families, right? and run immediate families. So there's a family difference. 00:36:37.000 --> 00:37:38.900 There's a certain what I would call "warmth" difference. Which is, you see this in that whenever you see Indians with Indians they seem to let their guard down and be far more relaxed, even if they've lived here for many, many years, right? And it changes when there's some Americans in the room. And I'm sure that's very true with American Americans. What tends to basically happen is what makes an American, outside of supposedly color, in the old days, is very unclear, right? But there's a cultural heritage and roots that Indians share which for some reason the United States people don't share, outside of me talking about sports. So there's a certain--less warmth, I would say, that you basically have, a less emphasis on family, right? And I--and the other thing I think there is a bit of a difference...between the two countries, is there is a much greater long-term orientation in India than there is in the United States. 00:37:38.900 --> 00:38:16.500 [BF]: Yeah, I definitely understand what you're saying, because in the short time that I lived in India, I sort of felt like you know all the things that you were talking about. I can see it, and I was only there for a short period of time. [RT]: Right. [BF]: Yeah, continuing on, so...you can talk about the time when you arrived and when you were 11 and 12 or when you arrived for your MBA, but what was the thing that struck you first? I know you mentioned the television, and the toys and just how much of that it was in this country, but what would you say struck you? 00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:58.100 [RT]: I think the biggest thing that truly strikes anybody, and I see that happening all the time, is...the plentifulness, right? Where everything is available in plentiness. I still to this day will--and I've been now in the United States for over 34 years. I still get fascinated with supermarkets, large supermarkets. I still get fascinated with Costco, because it's just so much, right? The just, the plenitude is the one big thing that I think makes a very big difference. 00:38:58.100 --> 00:39:07.700 [BF]: So there had to have been challenges that you faced when you arrived here. What would you say we're at some of the challenges? 00:39:07.700 --> 00:40:14.200 [RT]: You know, I was somewhat fortunate in that, there were challenges and the challenges had to do a lot with... I would say, in this industry, which is the industry that I am in, this was not an industry that tended to basically have people of color. And it's still an industry that doesn't have enough people of color, of any type. I'm talking about diversity. And when I... was working at the Leo Burnett Company, in 1982, the company had--in this office or this building, we had about a thousand people, right? And the people of color who were not a secretary... probably were less than 20, in a thousand. So less than 2%, and I'm talking about whether you are Hispanic, Indian, African-American, Chinese, right? 00:40:14.200 --> 00:41:07.300 There were three Indians. There were the two people who were involved in hiring me. So they have to figure out how to get me hired. And... four, five years later they were gone. And there was a period where I was the only Indian in a thousand persons building. And there were challenges that had to do with--challenges of things that I had to learn, because remember I was working in an advertising business where you have to resonate with the culture. So how do you learn things about parts of American culture? There I was--remember I said I was lucky? parts of it were bosses who gave me chances. So I have three really, really huge obstacles to cross. Obstacle number one which I had to cross was learn how to write. 00:41:07.300 --> 00:42:02.100 "But you're someone who's a writer," right? But writing stories is not the same as writing memos. You have to be short, concise, fact-based. You cannot be like meandering all over, using adjectives and adverbs that make no sense. And I had a boss who basically made me rewrite and rewrite my memos 20 to 20 or 30 times. I still am friends with her, by the way, though I hated her, deeply. She was a PhD in English from the University of Chicago who just happened to be my boss, right? So she taught me how to write. That was one. Second is, remember coming from India, this is hard for you to believe. It's very hard for people when they see how I write now, right? The second point is going to be really hard for people to believe. I had a big trouble communicating and, particularly, presenting. I used to be shy. I used to get nervous. I don't know how to present, stand in front of a crowd. 00:42:02.100 --> 00:42:47.200 Over two, three years I learned how to do that. Now part of it was learning how to present. But part of it, I was insecure that I didn't know enough. And that was the third point, which I did not know enough about culture. In India they don't make you stand up and present, be boisterous, and full of self-confidence, right? You kind of are...what I would say... an introvert, in many ways, and they feed it. You know, you don't stand out, right? India is one of those places where--in the US the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In India is, sort of the, the nail that stands out gets hammered down, very much like China. And so what tended to basically happen is, to learn about culture I had a very interesting boss. 00:42:47.200 --> 00:43:42.600 And the boss basically did something that today would be illegal,...okay? But in those days it wasn't, and I am not saying it should not be illegal, but I'm kind of saying, at some particular stage you need people who basically say, "Screw what the rules are. Here's what needs to get done," especially if want to help you, you have to do certain things. So I had a boss, he put me in his office, closed the door and he basically said, "Look in doing the work you're the best, that can be. You can run these numbers left, right, and center.” This was before computers, right? "You can do math like nobody else can do math. That's all fine. However, when it comes down to a lot of these other things you seem to be--you don't know how to talk about whether or sports, or a few [inaudbile]. And so he had a very interesting line. His line was basically, "I am going to basically teach you how to succeed in the white man's world...” 00:43:42.600 --> 00:44:25.800 And he said, "To succeed in the white man's world you're going to have to live like a white man, and I'm going to expose you to things, and here's what you going to have to do. So you are going to have to every weekend, I'm going to arrange it that people in this group, or my own friends, which is my kids, are going to take you to football games and baseball games and music concerts. You're going to become a member of the University Club where everybody is white, and they--they're older and they swim in the nude in the University Club, which is at Monroe, right? And I want you to understand how people"-- And what happened is that that gave me confidence. I went to football games and soccer games, and I was in this club. The whole idea was that it gave me confidence. And these were people that were training me. 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:59.500 So the whole idea of how do you fit in, how do you present, how do you write, how do you speak, all of those were obstacles and I got trained. And people today don't spend enough time doing that because if you tell somebody they will basically say, "You are being racist," right? Now many cases people are being racist, but what tends to happen is...sometimes you should feel free to basically, someone to tell you, like, "You're full of shit!" 00:44:59.500 --> 00:45:16.000 [BF]: So that particular training you would say was a benefit for you, and your entire career? But you felt comfortable in him addressing you in that way, and even going through, you know, taking you down that path, you felt comfortable? 00:45:16.000 --> 00:46:25.600 [RT]: I did! Well it was--what was what was basically happening, and this is the key thing: remember this was 1983-1984. I didn't have much of a choice, like, what was I going to do? Say, "I quit"? But there's nobody who can give you a job. I don't have an opportunity to go anywhere. The other--and is what's very important. I realized that what he was saying was true. And what happens is, you know, usually when somebody says something that you disagree with, there are only three ways you actually react. You react because--you react if it's extremely true, what they have said is extremely true, you normally react with anger, especially what they've said is negative about you and true you. You normally react with anger. If they say something negative about you that's not true, you basically--doesn't bother you at all. It’s like, “what the hell?” Ok, outside of it's negative about you, not true and it's a sort of like...you know--they're a drug addict. Then you get worried. But they basically say, "You're not a very good presenter,” and you're not a very good presenter you’re going to also get angry. 00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:38.300 [BF]: Um, so I kind of want to talk about that little more, but also stay focused on the questions, 'cause that's really interesting that you had that kind of training, [RT]: Right. [BF]: which is totally unorthodox. 00:46:38.300 --> 00:46:53.000 [RT]: It is unorthodox! and what happens is I now give that same sort of training to people. So I basically--my whole stuff is, I say, "Yes, what--here is the reality. You want me to tell you about the reality, or do you want me to feed your fantasy? 00:46:53.000 --> 00:47:29.100 [BF]: So in my mind there's kind of--I have like a question about...like you're sort of level of comfort as far as you said being in like a white man's world, because you mentioned even back when you were at University of Chicago there was only, I think you said [RT]: Right, right. [BF]: twenty Indians, or four Indians, or something like that. And it's like, you feel comfortable around people that are Indian like yourself, but would you say that...let's see, how can I phrase this--would you say that it's like more essential for you to be around people like yourself? Or-- 00:47:29.100 --> 00:48:42.300 [RT]: No! because now what happens is comfortable with everybody. And the difference is because I got trained. And how I did I get trained? I got trained by looking beyond people's cultures, while respecting them. Looking beyond people's color, and I began to see everybody as people. And once I began to look at everybody as people, I would talk to them as people and I would make fun of them as people, ok? And then I will take you to the other extent and my old stuff was like, "Why is this not the other way around?" So for a lot of things if you notice in my career I've done stuff which is not the norm. I've done some things slightly on the edge... on the side, forward, behind etcetera. And when I would do that it would basically be I would be--you know, as people said, take the path less...followed, and that made all the difference, and so to a great extent, you know, I've done that, but part of it is I've then taking that group, and instead of making them feel like a minority, I made them feel like they're the leaders, right? So to a certain extent when I was working on this floor in direct marketing and people said, "All those people are like, stupid." 00:48:42.300 --> 00:49:34.300 So I called us all the leper colony, right? And I said, "Not only are we stupid, we're lepers! They don't want to talk to us. But I just want let you know the lepers are going to take over the world, and those people are going to--basically, the lepers are coming. And so what I would do simultaneously, accept that we were disdained, but then energize people to say, "This is our world; it's not theirs." And that is very, very important, which is, "What you going to do about it?" Right? And it eventually I sort of relate to things on a people, and what all of those let me do is forget the labels. And I now use the labels to inspire people, to get better versus use the labels to attack people. And once you begin to understand that, it becomes very, very positive. 00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:56.600 [BF]: Okay, so going back to...let's say your years when you came to Chicago for the MBA, because that was when you really started to live in the United States. [RT]: Right. [BF]: And you were on your own during this time. So after you graduated, you lived on campus housing or you had an apartment? 00:49:56.600 --> 00:50:53.000 [RT]: So I lived...when I graduated...I shared--I got a furnished apartment in Hyde Park, because it was very easy to get from Hyde Park to here, because I got an apartment one block from the train station. And the train station basically the train stoped at the bottom of the Prudential Building, and I rode up the elevator. And remember I hated the cold, so it was this is a great path. So I lived in Hyde Park, and then later on I had a girlfriend so,--who is now my wife. And then we basically shared an apartment and then we got married and we lived in Hyde Park. We had kids in Hyde Park. And we spend 25 years in Hyde Park, so--in our own apartment. So we basically, first had a furnished apartment that I rented, then we shared apartment, and then we bought a condominium. 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:57.300 [BF]: And you still live in Hyde Park, currently? 00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:56.900 [RT]: No. We stopped living in Hyde Park in 2005. What's special about that date 2005 is when our...2006 is when our daughters went off to college. And when this youngest one went off to college. And so what happened is, we lived in Hyde Park because, initially it was University of Chicago, then my kids went to the University of Chicago Lab School. My wife taught at the University of Chicago Lab School. When they graduated, my wife stopped teaching. There was no reason for us to stay in Hyde Park, by which time...I spent a lot of time either here or at the airport. And I was fortunate, and we basically moved downtown. But...so we live 5 minutes walk from here. 00:51:56.900 --> 00:52:20.700 And we kept our place in Hyde Park for the--we thought maybe the kids would go to business school, or something like that but we sold that this year, actually. So we kept for 7-8 years. But...it's now clear that our daughters are not going to go to school at University of Chicago. I mean they went--the did nursery through 12th grade, and that was enough. 00:52:20.700 --> 00:52:25.200 [BF]: Are you, sort of, comfortable living so close to where you work? 00:52:25.200 --> 00:52:43.500 [RT]: Uh, yes! Because...well, there's two ways of looking at it. I either am living very close to where work, or I'm living very far from where I work, because I basically spend approximately-- I do about 140 flights a year. [BF]: Wow. [RT]: Okay? 00:52:43.500 --> 00:53:49.000 My card basically says my headquarters is in Paris, so I'm very far from Paris.... I'm in my office, like...today which is Monday, the last time I was in this office was last Monday, okay? And interestingly, for a variety of reasons Tuesday and Wednesday, and Thursday, Friday I work from home. And what's particularly interesting is when people want to meet me, I don't have to meet them here. "Let's have a breakfast here. Let's have a lunch here. Let's have a dinner here. Let's meet at a Starbucks!" There's no reason to meet here. You and I are meeting here because this is hard to do at a Starbucks, right? But there's no reason, and so, you know, increasingly by being near my office, allows me to actually work from home, which is the best. So I can be with my wife and sit back in my pajamas (inaudible) that's what I do because I’m often on Skype, so I have to look decent. 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:54.600 [BF]: So you met your wife when you were at University of Chicago? 00:53:54.600 --> 00:54:21.000 [RT]: Nope. We met when we were in India, when both of us were 12 years old. [BF]: Oh. *chuckles* [RT]: but we did not start dating until we were 17 or 18 when we were in college in India. And then she came to the US to Minnesota. I came to the University of Chicago. And then, after she graduated and I graduated, she moved to Chicago. She worked at company Edelman, which is a big public relations company. I worked at Leo Burnett. And that's how we met. 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:23.400 [BF]: So you also had similar career paths, also? 00:54:23.400 --> 00:55:26.800 [RT]: We had similar career paths. Excepting...when our, younger--older daughter was born she stopped working. So she stopped working...for three, four years. And then when she went--five years. And when she went back to work, she changed her career from being in public relations to being an assistant school teacher, at the University of Chicago Lab School. And the idea that was two-fold advantage. Number one was she could go to school and come back from school at the very same time as our girls went to school and came back from school. So she can look after them. And when they were not at home, she was with them. And she was--so it was very good. And, as important, especially in those days, was the Lab School is very expensive, and as an assistant school teacher, we only had to pay 50% tuition for both of them. So we educated two girls at the price of one. 00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:39.000 And interestingly, her salary paid for the other one. So she educated our daughters over those 12 years. While I ran around the world, working. 00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:44.500 [BF]: How old are both of your girls? [RT]: They are now 28 and 25. 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:49.000 [BF]: And how old were you when they were born? 00:55:49.000 --> 00:56:19.200 [RT]: We were...28 when the first one was born. Uh, yeah, so our older daughter is...she's back to being a student. So she's in New York. She's doing two degrees: an MBA and an MFA in film and television. Our younger daughter actually works at Edelman where her mom used to work. They both live and share an apartment in New York City. 00:56:19.200 --> 00:56:21.800 [BF]: And what are both your daughters' names? 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:32.600 [RT]: Rea and Rohini. So Rea is the older one and Rohini is the younger one. So they both went to school in Boston, and they both now live in New York and the older one's back to school. 00:56:32.600 --> 00:56:41.600 [BF]: And I see the pictures of them. [RT]: Yeah! yeah, yeah so those are the three. Four or five years ago, so they are a little older now. 00:56:41.600 --> 00:57:00.000 [BF]: Mhm. Were there any...I feel like I've asked you this before [RT]: Sure [BF]: but would you say there's a experience from the early days, when you first arrived in the United States, or even during your time studying, that really just had such a lasting effect on you? 00:57:01.000 --> 00:58:01.700 [RT]: I would basically say there have been three big elements that have had a big impact. One are my initial and early bosses at the Leo Burnett Company. And I had a lot of fortunate bosses, and they have basically driven a lot of my success. The early ones were basically saying learn how to work in a white man's world. The older ones basically taking gambles when I said, "Let's go try to do something like this." So that is a big, big part of it. And so that's--you know, the Leo Burnett Company's had a big, big, big impact. I think the University of Chicago has had a major impact because in effect it shocked me to realize that I wasn't that smart. When I came here I thought I was like really smart. And I learned in an odd way how to do business in an unusual way. Because they didn't do it through the case study, they actually taught you things. And a lot of what they taught, you didn't realize it was smart until 15-20 years later, so wasn't like backward-looking cases; that was very important. 00:58:01.700 --> 00:59:00.800 And I think the third was...sort of, figuring out how would my wife do sort of... make things work. You know, we--the reason we didn't leave Hyde Park, even though we left Hyde Park was we were big believers in roots. So even though I'm a big person who works for change and innovation, and the future, and I remind people I work for the same...My previous boss, till he retired, I worked for the same person for twelve years, okay? in three, four, five different positions and companies. He was very senior. I worked for my current boss, he had been my boss's boss for fourteen years, he has been my boss now for two. And I worked for my bosses for a long time. I worked in the same company for 34. I lived in Hyde Park for years and years and years. I've known my wife for 44 years, right? 00:59:00.800 --> 01:00:08.200 So my basic belief is I hate change; I like roots, okay? And to great extent, the idea that my wife and I have done a lot of these things, including--we still laugh because we are fortunate many, many years later, through a combination of luck and a lot of other stuff, we don't have to manage budgets like the way we used to manage budgets. And I remember for many years, after my first paycheck after everything was done, we had just enough money to buy a Mr. Coffee machine. And we kept that Mr. Coffee machine for 25 years, right? And we use the same time coff--and even when I was retired. It was our original coffee machine. And eventually, it...so rotted, and so moulded that was a health hazard, so we got rid of it, right? So there's a certain amount of like--so I think the University of Chicago, the bosses is I had at the Leo Burnett Company, and the fact that I actually had a girlfriend who became my wife early on. I think those three things made me. 01:00:08.200 --> 01:00:28.300 And oddly I still work at the Leo Burnett Company, day before yesterday I taught at University of Chicago. My family foundation helps educate one University of Chicago student every year. And I'm still married to the same lady. So if you notice this is 1982 all over again. 01:00:28.300 --> 01:00:43.400 [BF]: Yeah you mentioned your family foundation. I found a lot of resources about the, sort of, charitable things that [RT]: Yeah [BF]: you do in India. But you also do charitable things here, as well? 01:00:43.400 --> 01:01:26.400 [RT]: Well what we do is, the only charitable thing the foundation does in the United States is we underwrite a student who-- every year an Indian student we basically half their tuition. We pay for their tuition, which is--at the University of Chicago. So they basically get a stipend for $25,000 each year that they are here. So pays a lot of their tuition. It doesn't pay for the housing and other stuff, but it pays for a lot of their tuition. That's the only thing we do in the United States, the reason we do only that in the United States, and that's an exception, is as I explained, my both my father and I went here, and so it made a huge difference. 01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:38.500 But we believe that money goes further in India, because a little money goes a long way in India, a little money goes--lots of money goes very little in the United States. 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:50.800 [BF]: Um, so about you personally, when you were in India what did you do for your leisure time, and also what do you do in America now for your leisure time? 01:01:50.800 --> 01:02:29.000 [RT]: What I would do it India in my leisure time were three things, which were, I would read a lot. I love reading. I had lots and lots of friends, and so we played and we played, whether it was cricket or...go eat food or, you know, do a whole bunch of other stuff. So there's a lot of things to do with like, friends. And then the third is we'd go--so there was, I would say sports, hanging out with friends, and reading. Today there's no sports. There's still some hanging out with friends. I think the reading is particularly... 01:02:29.000 --> 01:03:09.500 I'm particularly into (inaudible) reading. So what I do today is I spend all of my free time is...culture. So it's watching movies, reading,...is going to the Art Institute, or whatever. So a big part of it is culture. The second part is hanging out with my wife and friends, and most of them--outside of reading, most of the other culture I do with her. Reading...she reads; I read more. And then I spent a lot of time, as and when I can, with our daughters. So that's basically it. So, there's no sports. 01:03:09.500 --> 01:03:17.600 [BF]: Yeah I was going to ask you about that. So how would you, or would you say you still have a connection with your Indian heritage? 01:03:17.600 --> 01:04:05.900 [RT]: I do! I go to India four times a year. And...three to four times a year. A minimum three times, sometimes four times. And I go there, because I go--I work. I do some consulting work for a large Indian company called (NAME) Group. So that requires me to go twice a year. My company also has our second largest number of employees of the Publicis Group now in India. So there are business reasons I sometimes have to go to India. And then I align my foundation work with those visits. So what happens is because I'm the chairman of the foundation, we set the meetings when I'm in India, so--and I have to have--I have to be in India for the foundation at least twice a year. But I align it with my office visits versus making special visits. 01:04:05.900 --> 01:05:11.700 So yeah I think the Indian-ness never comes out of you. And...when I go in April next, I will have dinner with, you know, those friends that I--when I was 8, 9, 10, 11, 12--four or five of those, and we will have dinner on one of those days. The people who run the foundation are all family friends so, besides the family foundation meeting, I will hang out with them. And I will do a lot of the things that I used to do in Bombay, though I don't recognize it anymore because it's so huge. I mean, I recognize my small part of Bombay, but it's a huge, big city. And it's fantastic. And I will do almost everything I did when I was 12 years old, with one big exception. I no longer eat on the streets, which to me is a big regret. [BF]: Oh! [RT]: But I don't because my--I'm now convinced that my--everyone in India, as well as my wife, has convinced me that I don't think my stomach can take it. Because I used to eat on the street, so there's something fantastic with street Indian food. 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:20.300 [BF]: Would you say that you've made an impact on the Indian community in Chicago, or even in the United States? 01:05:20.300 --> 01:06:20.200 [RT]: I don't know whether I've made--to a certain extent, I've made an impact in a small sub-section of the Indian community in the United States, and in Chicago. It's a little broader in Chicago, definitely within the United States, it's basically in an area. And the area is in advertising and marketing. Because I have been fortunate that I am probably today...one of the most senior people in advertising and marketing of Indian origin in the country. So you see amazingly successful Indians, all over, in private business, in running hotels, in holding Dunkin' Donut chains. There are three areas where there are some amazing, successful Indians, in the medical establishment, in technology. Look at the CEOs of Google, the CEOs of Microsoft, right? 01:06:20.200 --> 01:07:24.600 And of course in the consulting, look at the McKinzie's and Banes, they are just stacked with Indians. What is interesting with all of those, which I just described, they are either your own business or they are businesses that tend to be extremely left brain. Technology, consulting, and medical sciences. This is the arts, right? This is basically a place where you have to be successful with culture. And the reason I managed to make this happen is two simple reasons. One is I found a field that--or eventually found an area about the future in technology and the future marketing, which happens to be where the future of this industry is. And which all businesses are interested in. So I stand out for that reason. But the other reason is--remember the guys, many many years ago, who says, "Learn how to work in a white man's world." I got that advice and I got that kick in the pants that a lot of people did not get. So I'm extremely comfortable. 01:07:24.600 --> 01:08:10.900 So you cannot put me in a position I can--I present to CEOs in boardrooms, right? And I do it without a sweat. And the reason is because I know how to do it. I've learned how to do it over the years. I take it seriously, I don't sound like I just walk in like an idiot. But it's very clear that I know my stuff. And what happens is--and that is where they are--where it's a combination of facts and opinion. And in effect what I'm actually doing is I'm now communicating and I'm telling stories...just what I was wanting to do, excepting I'm now communicating and telling stories in...a world where I get paid for doing that, and I don't have to write books for which I am not talented enough. 01:08:10.900 --> 01:08:27.000 [BF]: So would you say that--someone from India comes to America and wants to make a living here, would they have to get the same kind of kick in the pants that you had? Or is it easier for them? 01:08:27.000 --> 01:09:08.700 [RT]: It's much easier for them, and it's much more difficult for them. So let me tell you why it's much easier. It's much easier because they don't, they don't stick out as a sore thumb anymore, right? Anybody from India, you go to University of Chicago, you've got 50 people in the business school who are just like you in your class. That's number one. You basically look across every industry, like what I came in, the CEO of Microsoft, the CEO of Adobe, and the CEO of Google was not, Indians, right? So there's not an issue. In fact now what happens is Asian-Americans earn more by about 50% and Indians earn even more than that, than Americans. 01:09:08.700 --> 01:10:04.500 The other is we are somewhat fortunate, which is...We are the single...country which, where people like us. So we are not scary, that we're going to take over the world like the Chinese. We are supposedly the...people who are taking away jobs and coming in illegally, like the Mexicans. This is what belief is, I'm not saying that that's true, right? We are not supposed to be the second class citizens of the African Americans. [BF]: Mhm. [RT]: You know? We basically, because the people who represent us have to come over ten to twelve thousand miles, and they basically are helped by their family and they basically work. You don't normally see...Indians on the street, right? So what is basically happened is nobody resents Indians. 01:10:04.500 --> 01:11:02.100 Maybe in the United Kingdom in a particular place, but there's nobody in--I don't see people saying like...anti-Indian stuff. There's anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, anti-Black, anti-Mexican. Sometimes anti-Chinese. Very little anti-Indian! So all of those reasons is much, much easier. Right? You don't have to do any of the stuff that I had to do. On the other hand it's much more difficult, and the reason is much more difficult is because the expectations are so much higher. These role models also means everybody basically believe that Indians are very smart. We aren't really; we just basically--listen, we've been filtered. The best Indians have been coming here through graduate and other schools, right? 01:11:02.100 --> 01:11:25.600 The other is, there are these expectations that you say, "You have to be like this. You can't--you know, you should be a doctor. You should be a engineer. You need to do this. You need to do that. So there's much more of that. In my case it was just get a job. If you get job and manage to make a living, you're successful. Now there's--so it's both. There's good and there's bad. 01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:38.500 [BF]: So what you described that, sort of, the mentality that Americans have of Indians, it seems like they fit into the model minority category. [RT]: Yes. [BF]: How do you feel about that? 01:11:38.500 --> 01:12:37.800 [RT]: Well if I'm going to have to--if there's gotta be a model minority I'm glad that my heritage came from a model minority. I think the only reason we are a model minority is primarily because we are highly filtered. I believe all people are the same. I truly believe that, you know someone basically said 99.3% of a chimp's DNA is the same as a human, okay? Or a Neanderthal's DNA is the same as the human. What tends to basically happen is you look at our genomic code, there's only four or five pages--in a 175 volume encyclopedia about 15 pages separates us. We share 174 volumes; you and I do, okay? So I basically believe that people are people first. Then they are their upbringing, their culture, their nature, their nurture, all of that, right? And which makes life very interesting. 01:12:37.800 --> 01:13:39.400 But what tends to basically happen is, I don't believe that there is a particular species of, type of people that are better than another type of people. And so my whole basic stuff is there are rotten Indians and smart Indians and horrible Indians because that's the way people are. But, I'd rather be a model, it helps, right? than being somebody who isn't. And tends to basically happen is it is very unfair that today, because of a variety of reasons, people of certain races, of certain backgrounds, and of certain religions are sort of looked on as a cancer. So they either try to be removed, which is they are a malignant cancer. So you basically have to be eliminated. Or you are a benign cancer that has to be monitored, right? like increasingly certain groups of Muslims are, which are very unfair. So, I'll take my model minority versus not. But I recognize a lot of it is a trick of location, and filtering. Nothing else. 01:13:39.400 --> 01:13:44.200 [BF]: Would you say that you still practice your family's religion, or--? 01:13:44.200 --> 01:14:50.500 [RT]: We--what happened is, for good for bad reason, because I gave from this...what eventually happened is we all went to all the religions that we had grew up non-religious. Because, at least in my particular case, when you have a father who is a Muslim, a mother who is a Hindu, you go to Jesuit school. Those are three. The only religion that I wasn't very much exposed to in India when I was growing up was Judaism, right? But you kind of saw a lot of Buddhists and a lot of Jains, and I have worked in a Zoroastrian company, or my parents worked for a Zoroastrian company, and I had--my entire education was in a Jesuit school, where there was no church and state. We would like pray, and all that, you know?... When they went to church kind of thing we had a thing called moral science, which is basically Catholicism-light. So we had all of those. So at the end of it what you do is you learn how to appreciate the religions, but you to kind of find it impossible to believe...when they say, "Hate each other," because my stuff is, "Hey I--my mother is one, my father is one, my best friends are the other. What are you talkin about?!" 01:14:50.500 --> 01:14:59.700 [BF]: So if you don't mind me asking, do you have American citizenship? [RT]: Yes [BF]: Okay and when did you become an American citizen? 01:14:59.700 --> 01:15:55.000 [RT]: I became an American citizen in 200...2 or 3? And the reason I did this--remember, after how many years? I was, I could have become a citizen in 19...89? But I did not till 2002. And the reason I did not is because India did not allow dual citizenship. So I said like, I was an Indian citizen, in those days. What made me change? Simple: 9/11.... After 9/11, if you had an Indian passport it was very hard to travel. My job required me to travel fast, right? and if you're an American passport holder, you pretty much barely require a visa. 01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:35.000 I travel a lot. And I currently, now because of certain deals--the only place I had to apply for a vis--The only place on a regular basis that I travel that I had to apply for a visa was China, right? I had exactly for visa stamps. China, China China, China. Till Obama went and they did the deal where you get ten-year visas. So now we have once every ten year. I have a ten-year Brazil visa. I have a ten-year China visa. And then I need a Russian visa. Those are the only visas...that I have and needed, right? and now ten-year visas. So I travel freely. Try that with an Indian passport. 01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:39.600 [BF]: So how was the process for becoming a citizen? 01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:55.200 [RT]: It was very simple because the reality was it was, I had been here for so many years. So it was basically, I had to do a civics exam, which I knew because I had lived in the country. And I basically--it was...easy. I had a green card and I had been living here for a long time. It was easy. 01:16:55.200 --> 01:17:23.500 [BF]: Okay, so I'm going to--I feel like I'm taking a lot of your time, [RT]: Sure, no problem. [BF]: So I'm going to just wrap up the questions really quick. Alright so now, you can just...the questions are more open-ended now. If there's any stories that you'd like to share about your time in America, or you even in India, or just family stories. 01:17:23.500 --> 01:18:21.600 [RT]: I think...I would say...my underlying belief is that...I'm a huge fan of every country in the world, but a particular fan of the United States and India. Which, if I were to like, list the best and most interesting countries in the world I would list those two, even if I did not grow up in either of those two, among the top five. And, you know, I would...definitely, probably throw in China, the United Kingdom, and France as the other three. All of which I spend a lot of time in. That does not mean that, and I haven't been to all those countries, but if you sort of look at those, and the reason for India is...India is soon going to be the world's largest largest population. India is the world's largest democracy. 01:18:21.600 --> 01:19:26.000 50% of the people in India under...25 years old. As the world becomes more technology-competent, India becomes a big part of it. If you look at the United States, it's the second largest democracy. And both countries basically are aspirational. They're free-thinking, democratic countries. And...it is those two countries sort of formed me, and to a great extent, I can't think of a better combination of two countries. You know, I would have loved to--there's a certain...history and elegance of England which has--I have got because of growing up in India, working in the United States. So England has obviously been a place. France obviously impacted the United States in democracy, impacted the world through its French thinkers, impacts me because it pays for me and that's where I go these days--Not pays for me, thats' where my bosses are. 01:19:26.000 --> 01:20:17.600 And then the other county I find absolutely incredible is China, because it is probably the world's greatest civilization, if you had to choose one. And the second largest economy, and an amazing place which I think is going to get more more amazing. And and I'm fortunate with those--but I'm fortunate with Indian and the United States, and stories for me is... It's people first you know my big learnings have been: be true to your roots, which is what I have. But recognize that the nice thing about roots, is it gives you wings. So you can take risks, you can do all kinds of stuff. And that's what I did to basically do. I also use an analogy and then I have the analogy I use is... There a lot of arguments, you know about like, what do you believe in, what don't you believe in, etc. 01:20:17.600 --> 01:21:14.800 And my basic belief is I think individuals matter, individual choice and individual freedom. So, whenever given a choice between individual choice and individual freedom I'll go there. That's number one. Number two is...that things will always, sometimes go wrong, so you need trampoline. So I do believe that you need to help people, you need-- I call it a trampoline, you could call it a social security net, social net, whatever it is. So I'm a big believer in, what I would call, help or a trampoline of some sort. So you let people--you give individuals as many rights as possible, when they don't affect other people's rights, and much more for free markets, but then I need a trampoline. Free markets, people win and lose, so they fall. 01:21:14.800 --> 01:22:29.000 And I'm not going to be on a trampoline if I don't--I'm not going to be a on tightrope if I don't have a trampoline. And the third is like, Chris Rock mentioned yesterday during the Oscars, is you need a ladder, you need opportunity. And so my stuff is, you know, people need to be given opportunities, including an education and things like that. And you give people equal opportunities, outcomes are what outcomes are. And when people fall you give them trampolines. Those are my basic underlying, basic beliefs. And when someone says--And I don't believe any system works without all those three. So when someone basically says, "No trampoline," then I say, "You know what? No one's going to go up there." If someone says, "No ladder," then I say, "Hey, you're lucky because of who you are born to,...right?" But if somebody basically says, "Yes, trampoline. Yes, ladder. But then you can't earn as much as you want," I said, "No, no, no, no, that's not how it works. You have trampoline and ladder, then if people basically want to get an enormously wealthy, that's perfectly fine," right? And hopefully they will help fund the trampoline, and the ladder. 01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:45.200 [BF]: That's a good outlook to have of it. [RT]: Right. [BF]: Would you say that there's anything that sticks out...that is very particular to your experience as an Indian-American that you've had? 01:22:45.200 --> 01:23:37.200 [RT]: Yeah, I think one of the most interesting and amazing stuff is if you grow up in India, what I tell people who go to India for the first time, they said like, "What...should we think about? Or should we go to India?" And I said, "Look... one of the most important things that people to tell you about travel is the best travel changes you." I said, "India's one of the places that change you. You cannot go to India and come back being the same person. You could be better, you could be worse." The other is India doesn't leave you in two minds; you either love it, or you hate it. There's no neutral, you know? "Ah, it's okay," nothing like that. You love it or you hate it, okay? And what you end up doing is you love parts of it and you hate parts of it. There's parts of it where you says, "This is amazing!" and parts of you says, "This is shocking!" 01:23:37.200 --> 01:24:27.700 So India changes you, and one of the key things is: why? And that I think has made me very interesting, and why I think Indians become very interesting. Till you leave India, you don't realize it. You learn to live in a schizophrenic manner. Everything that everybody says about India, and its opposite is true. And you learn how to live that way, which allows you to work in a very complicated world, where you can have this--you know, and I think it was Fitzgerald who said, "The first rate mind is the ability to have two conflicting opinions still operate." So that's the ability that India does. Because you basically see rich and poor, different religions working together. You see anything you can say like, massive corruption, but amazing people. You see horrible violence but, hey people seem to be living in major cities perfectly fine. 01:24:27.700 --> 01:25:15.700 You have a Hindu state with the second largest number of Muslims in the entire world after Indonesia, right? So what sense does that make? So, I think India is that, which is, it's the potpourri of life that you get to see, which is pretty amazing. The second thing that you basically are going to see in India is...I think an emphasis, regardless of who you are, or where you are, there is this emphasis on a group that is not so large that you cannot connect to it-- so it can be a group of family or friends-- but it's not necessarily just the individual. So India is very interesting in that. And it's not the only county. You actually see that in Italy. You see that in China. That's that's the second thing that I think made India very important. 01:25:15.700 --> 01:25:48.700 And the third, which you should never under-appreciate is... If you notice, Indians have a fixation on food...okay? We love spicy food. We just love food. And you will find that Indians basically make their life around food. Breakfastes and lunches and dinners. You'll see families they'll basically say, "What are we doing for breakfast? "What are we doing for lunch? What are we doing for dinner?" And we have a very healthy respect and interesting thing for food. We consider that to be important for life. We don't consider it to be poison. 01:25:48.700 --> 01:26:02.300 [BF]: Do you have any words to share for, not only Indian Americans who came after you, but just for anyone who is sort of coming up in the world? 01:26:02.300 --> 01:26:33.000 [RT]: I think the most important thing that I would basically say is I--I believe that...you should initially take as many chances as you possibly can. Be--have a great gratitude for the people who give you chances. Give yourself chances by not being too hard on yourself, and then when you are fortunate, which hopefully everyone will be, make sure you give those chances back. 01:26:34.600 --> 01:26:55.700 [BF]: Before I conclude the interview do you have any final thoughts? [RT]: That's it. I'm honored to be interviewed and thank you. [BF]: Thank you so much. [RT]: Absolutely. [BF]: That was a great interview, thank you. [RT]: Perfect. Thanks a lot. So hopefully that helped? [BF]: Yes, I-- [RT]: Perfect. [BF]: That was great. [RT]: Great.