WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:29.000 [AMITA BANERJEE]: Start recording. This is an interview with Hena Banerjee as part of the Indo American Heritage Museum's Masala Chat Oral History Project. The interview is being conducted on January 12th at Hena Banerjee’s house. Hena Banerjee is being interviewed by Amita Banerjee of the Indo American Heritage Museum. 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:39.300 So Henda Di, now we're going to get started. Can you please state your name and spell your first and last name, please? 00:00:41.500 --> 00:01:03.400 [HENA BANERJEE]: My name is Hena Banerjee. It spells H E N A. And my last name is B A N E R J E E. At present I live 3724 Glenlake Drive, Glenview, Illinois 60026. 00:01:04.800 --> 00:01:07.900 [AB]: Henda Di, where were you born and when were you born? 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:27.400 [HB]: Well it was a long time ago. I was born **laughs**, I was born February 28, 1937, in a village, in Bangla--which is Bangladesh right now, and near Dhaka. 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:29.900 [AB]: Was that part of India at that time? 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:37.700 [HB]: At that time, it was not part of In--not part of a--I mean it was not divided. It was part of India. 00:01:37.700 --> 00:01:39.100 [AB]: Undivided India. 00:01:39.100 --> 00:01:40.700 [HB]: Undivided India. 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:44.600 [AB]: And so you grew up in Dhaka, which is a big city, right? 00:01:45.200 --> 00:02:11.400 [HB]: It’s not a big city. Dhaka is a small city, but very enterprising. And great schools and universities. Actually, all the big scientists were flocking in the university at that time. And I lived in Dhaka for about 11 years, and then I moved to Bangalore, to live with my uncle. 00:02:11.500 --> 00:02:16.600 [AB]: Okay. And when you were growing up, what languages did you speak, or language? 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:25.000 [HB]: I used to speak Bengali. and when I was in school, I could speak a little bit of English, not too much. 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:28.100 [AB]: And where did you go to school in Dhaka? 00:02:28.100 --> 00:02:59.700 [HB]: Okay, in Dhaka I went to Kamrunnessa Girls’ High School, which was in Tikatuly, Dhaka. And then I moved to Bangalore. I went to Maharness--I went to, um, let’s see. Malleshwaram Girls’ High School. And after graduation I went to Maharani College in Bangalore. And I graduated from there. 00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:06.700 [AB]: Okay, and did your family practice a particular religion in India, Henda Di? 00:03:06.700 --> 00:03:18.300 [HB]: Well, I’m from a Hindu family. And, we have been in Hindu, Hinduism--We prac--preach and practice Hinduism, and very happy about it. 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:22.500 [AB]: What did your parents do for a living in India? 00:03:23.100 --> 00:03:43.800 [HB]: Okay. I am a posthumous daughter, girl. My father died before I was born. He was going to be a lawyer, but he got sick and he died. So I was brought up by my uncle, mostly, and my mother. 00:03:44.600 --> 00:03:48.250 [AB]: Okay. And, “uncle” meaning your mother's brother? 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.600 [HB]: No, he was my, my father's third brother. 00:03:53.600 --> 00:03:56.200 [AB]: Ah, okay. Alright. That’s interesting. 00:03:56.200 --> 00:03:56.600 [HB]: Yeah. 00:03:56.900 --> 00:04:00.400 [AB]: Um, do you have any siblings? Did you have any siblings? 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:31.600 [HB]: I have two brothers. My older brother--All of us lived in Dhaka, but we moved to--1945, we moved to Bangalore. And 1947 the partition took place. So we lived in Bangalore for a while, I went to school there. My brother also went to school, but my older brother was studying in Dhaka, and then he graduated from the University of Dhaka. 00:04:32.100 --> 00:04:59.300 And he had to go back to do his master’s, because it was at that time, 1947, it was divided, became Bangladesh. So he had to fly there, sit for the exam, and then after the exam was done, he flew back to Calcutta. Never went back to the city because the trouble was so bad he would have been killed. 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:01.400 [AB]: There was a lot of unrest at that time. 00:05:00.700 --> 00:05:03.400 [HB]: There was a lot unrest going on. 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:12.300 [AB]: So between Dhaka and Bangalore, Henda Di, can you describe a little bit of your, what your life was like in India? 00:05:13.700 --> 00:05:14.300 [HB]: Well-- 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.400 [AB]: I mean you can start with Dhaka. 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:45.500 [HB]: Mhm. Well, Dhaka was a, very enterprising city. Since I was brought up by my uncle, I had the privilege of going to the university, and meeting some famous people, like Saji SeKorsh, B.C. Rai. And my school was also a collegiate school. And we had lot of fun. 00:05:45.500 --> 00:06:03.400 We had sports and (inaudible) with the puja. We had, you know, yearly sports. And the after the puja was done we gave Anjali and also we had delicious lutchi and bandacupritur curry **laughs**. 00:06:03.400 --> 00:06:06.700 [AB]: Oooh, lovely! Sounds delicious! **laughs** 00:06:06.700 --> 00:06:35.500 [HB]: Yeah. I was also part of, um--and I don't remember the name, but it was kind of a community organization. And we became part of that, all the school girls, became-- It's like an exercise based. Also they did some, um, they did some community work, like Dhaka was full of-- 00:06:36.700 --> 00:06:52.400 You know, what is called? The watercrest and all those, the rivers were full of you know, junk yard. So the kids participated. The name was Brotachari Neto. 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:54.300 [AB]: Brotachari Ni, Neto. 00:06:54.300 --> 00:07:19.000 [HB]: Neto. So we had exercise in schools. We had--the boys went out to clean up the swamps. And we had yearly gathering, all the West Bengali, Bengal District kids, they used to come there, meet on a yearly basis. That was like community work. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:20.200 [AB]: Community service 00:07:20.200 --> 00:07:21.500 [HB]: Community work. 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:23.200 [AB]: What did the girls do? 00:07:23.700 --> 00:07:52.800 [HB]: The girls, um, they **clears throat**. The girls went from--try to help in the neighborhood, and also try to have the school activities. Because sometimes, you know, we had sports. So at the sports, you know, we had all kinds of activities, and these girls they helped in maintaining the system going, you know? 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:22.700 And they wore white saris with white blouse. It was the Brotachari Neto dress outfit. And the boys usually went out, the girls didn't go out. But they did work in the schools, you know. There are lot of after-school activities that somebody needed to take care, you know. There were leaders, and you know this kind of things. 00:08:22.700 --> 00:08:50.900 And, it was very enterprising, because it was from the rural areas, kids also came. So they could teach each other how, you know, to improve themselves, and what they need to do, because there are some kids who don't understand a lot of things. They came from the village to village schools. It's like West Bengal school kids gathering. 00:08:52.300 --> 00:08:55.200 [AB]: So was it a predominantly Hindu School? 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:56.600 [HB]: Um, no-- 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:57.500 [AB]: Or organization? 00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:27.900 [HB]: No, no. The Kamrunnessa, the name of the school, so you can imagine, that there was Muslim kids also. But we had great friends among the Muslims. There was no particular division. And we went to each other's houses. We were friends with each other. Even though some of the Muslim girls were very, very conservative. And they wore...(indaudible) 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:28.400 [AB]: Hijab? 00:09:28.400 --> 00:09:31.400 [HB]: Badhara. You know? The bukra. Burka. 00:09:31.500 --> 00:09:32.000 [AB]: Burka. 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:52.200 [HB]: Burka. But, they came in the ghorara gari, in the hor--horse-driven carriage. And they were accompanied by an Aya. So they were very particular in their houses, but once they were in school, all-- 00:09:53.500 --> 00:09:54.700 [AB]: All badhara came off 00:09:54.700 --> 00:10:25.500 [HB]: All badhara came off. You know, it was the same. You know. In fact I had a friend called Hasina Begum. And her family is kind of, very progressive, and they were -- Even though they were Muslims, they were kind of pro-Christian, you know. There a lot of Christian kids that came to their house. So there was no division among the school children. 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:30.700 It was only the politcians who were doing the politics, you know. 00:10:30.700 --> 00:10:34.000 [AB]: Any Christians or other religions, in the school? 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:34.300 [HB]: Um-- 00:10:34.300 --> 00:10:35.100 [AB]: Not so many? 00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:52.800 [HB]: See, Christianity was not very prominent in West Bengal, you know. Even now it's not very prominent. So, I'm sure there were one or two Christian kids, but not very prominent. You know, Muslims were prominent. 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:59.500 [AB]: So, Henda Di, you said said you came to India from Dhaka to Bangalore when you were 11. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:01.700 [HB]: Yes. 11, 12. 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:07.000 [AB]: Okay. What was like there? What was it like there? And what was, what was, what was different maybe? 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:37.900 [HB]: Well, **laughs** in Dhaka, we did not practice--We did not speak English language, as much. But we were, we knew how to write and, you know, give an exam on English. We knew the grammars and we knew how to, you know, make conversation. Very little. 00:11:38.500 --> 00:12:09.600 But we tried to do the conversation. But when I went to Bangalore, the first thing I found, is that they are much more advanced than West Bengal. I think, Mysore in general, was very progressive than rest of the country. So I went to the school, Malleshwaram Girls’ High School, and I found in a very difficult situation, because I could not make conversation with the girls. 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:38.100 But, um, it’s, it's so funny that in, in the South, there was not too much, um, disparity between the teachers and the students. They mixed, mingled together. They went to lunch together. And the teachers were very friendly. You know? In fact, they were so friendly we would go to the movies together. We would eat lunch together. 00:12:38.400 --> 00:13:07.400 And, the kids in Bangalore, because Bangalore is beautiful, and they had a lot of flowers. So the custom in South was every morning the girls is to bring the garland to the teacher. Their favorite teacher. So, we were taught physics, mathematics, chemistry, and English, geography, and history, so. 00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:38.100 Mathematics, too. So, my physics teacher was not too old, very young, and very vivacious. And she used to mingle with all the students. And she used to give those garland's to whoever she pleased. **Amita laughs**. So, and very progressive. We had our own sports team. I had a badminton sports team, which was called Hawani. 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:45.600 And we played. And also I participated in Mysore Olympic, as a runner. **laughs** 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.200 [AB]: Oh. Wow, that is incredible! **laughs** 00:13:50.600 --> 00:14:06.400 [HB]: Even thought I didn’t win anything, but we went to all the schools, and gathered together in Mysore. And we went--I was participating, as a runner. Very progressive. 00:14:04.300 --> 00:14:07.200 [AB]: Okay, that sounds such a wonderful--Very progressive. 00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:20.900 [HB]: And because of my physics teacher, I ultimately learned how to talk to, in English. Fluentl language in English. So by the time I graduated from the high school, I was a pro in talking in English. 00:14:20.900 --> 00:14:24.000 [AB]: So that was when? in 10th grade or 12th grade? 00:14:24.900 --> 00:14:26.050 [HB]: All there was 10th grade. 00:14:26.050 --> 00:14:26.900 [AB]: 10th. Matric. 00:14:26.900 --> 00:14:28.000 [HB]: Ah. High school. 00:14:29.400 --> 00:14:30.600 [AB]: Matriculation, right? 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:34.900 [HB]: I forgot the name of the--it's called SSLC. 00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:36.200 [AB]: SSLC 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:38.600 [HB]: Ah. School living certificate. 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.800 [AB]: School living certificate, okay. Like, like senior Cambridge. 00:14:41.900 --> 00:15:05.900 [HB]: Right. And then we went, I went Marahani’s College. I did my junior college there. Then I moved to Calcutta and I did finish my graduate degree. And the college was very free, you know? Even though I went to an all-girls college, the boys college was not too far away. 00:15:05.900 --> 00:15:07.700 [AB]: This was college in Calcutta? 00:15:07.900 --> 00:15:10.200 [HB]: No. The college in Bangalore. 00:15:10.300 --> 00:15:10.900 [AB]: In Bangalore. 00:15:10.900 --> 00:15:40.300 [HB]: Yeah. I was to my Mysore University College. And then, I learned a lot from the high school there, you know. Because it’s a totally different set up from West Beng--from Bengal. You know, very progressive. And they, they were very well-versed with the world happenings. What was going on and all that, which Bengal kids didn’t know. So I met couple of the friends. 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:48.600 Um, in fact, **laughs** there was a Patel family. Two of the girls from that family were even smoking. 00:15:49.400 --> 00:15:50.600 [AB]: **Laughs** 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:51.200 [HB]: Cigarette. 00:15:51.300 --> 00:15:53.850 [AB]: That was, that is really progressive in those days. 00:15:53.200 --> 00:16:20.600 [HB]: Yeah. 1947-48. Nobody could imagine that the girls were going to be smoking there. But it was very progressive town, Bangalore usually, especially is a very progressive town. And then a college was free. If you didn't want to go to class you can cut the class, you know. There was no restriction. It's up to you. 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:21.700 [AB]: Lot of freedom 00:16:21.900 --> 00:16:53.800 [HB]: Lot of freedom. And, um, that's how Banga-- I, I left Bangalore 1950, and then went to Calcutta. And then--yeah. And then I went from Calcutta to Dhanbad. And then Dhanbad to Kharagpur IIT. And, I, I didn't go to college there, but I privately sat for the exam. 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.900 [AB]: Okay, for your university graduation exam. 00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:14.600 [HB]: Yeah. And then I got married in 1954. I got married in Kharagpur IIT compound, where my uncle lived. And I got married and I moved to Calcutta. 00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:17.700 [AB]: When did you come to the United States? After you, from Calcutta-- 00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:53.900 [HB]: I got married in 1954. Then, after the year, I had my oldest daughter. And six months later, I moved to Pune National Chemical Laboratory. And while there, my husband applied for a fellowship, and he got the fellowship from Penn State University. And a year later, 1958, we came to State College Pennsylvania 00:17:54.400 --> 00:18:05.800 [AB]: How did you come? How did you come to the United States? What was it--tell us that story, Hena Di. Did you have enough money to come? Did you want to come? 00:18:06.100 --> 00:18:33.300 [HB]: Well, when he first-- His friends used to tell him that, “If you don't have any American degree, you are nothing. You have to have an American degree.” So he was so eager to come here he, applied and he got the fellowship. And the both families, both sides, my side and his side of the family objected to it. They didn't want us to come. And, also I didn't want to come. 00:18:33.600 --> 00:18:45.300 But my brother said that, “You know, the boys who go to America, they never come back. They'll get married to American girls and you will never see your husband **laugh together**. 00:18:45.300 --> 00:18:46.600 [AB]: Did you believe that? 00:18:46.600 --> 00:19:05.000 [HB]: So, I sort of believed it. But I, in fact I didn't care, because I had a widow mother, and that was very fond of her. She suffered a lot in her life, and I didn't want to leave her and come to United States, which is so far away. 00:19:05.300 --> 00:19:13.400 [AB]: How about your in-laws? your mother-in-law your father-in-law? What was, what was their take on your coming to the United States? 00:19:13.600 --> 00:19:42.500 [HB]: Well, of course, my father-in-law objected. “If he, if my son wants to go to America, let him go. You don't have to go. But my mother-in-law did not say anything. But I found out that I was pregnant with my second child. And my brother, my second brother, he said, “Only one condition your husband can go to America is that if he takes you along with him. 00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:52.600 Because who's going to take the responsibility, for you?” I don't have a father. So naturally, my brothers were, you know-- 00:19:53.800 --> 00:19:54.100 [AB]: Keen 00:19:54.100 --> 00:20:24.100 [HB]: Trying to help me. And I think it was unfair for me to, you know, give them the responsibility of aking care of me. So I also decided that, “Only if I, if my husband takes me then he can go, otherwise he doesn't have, he cannot make it. But we didn't have money. So at that time, we were, my husband was posted in, in Dhanbad Fuel Research Institute. 00:20:24.100 --> 00:20:53.600 And he made a friend. And that friend said, “Okay, I will help you.” He was from Khasmir. Very nice family, and he had money, so he helped my husband with some, with the boat fare. And we paid him back, after we came to State College, we paid him back. But it was very generous of him to help us. 00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:23.100 And then we couldn’t--there was no plane flying at that time. So we had to go by boat. And there was not too many passenger boats, either. They were passenger cargo ships that was flying--I mean that was going, from the-- The company was mostly the British, British-- 00:21:23.100 --> 00:21:24.000 [AB]: British companies 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:45.400 [HB]: Huh? British cargo company, you know. There were--the boat comprised of twelve passengers, and rest of them are the crews. You know, because it was a cargo-come-passenger. So, for the most of the passengers were treated like a first-class passenger. 00:21:45.800 --> 00:21:46.800 [AB]: That is fantastic. 00:21:24.000 --> 00:22:02.700 [HB]: Uhuh. Actually we were the guests of the captain of the ship. We had to have breakfast, and lunch, and dinner with him, at the same table. We were treated very well. 00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:06.000 [AB]: I’m sure. That’s must have been nice. And then when you-- 00:21:24.000 --> 00:22:11.700 [HB]: So, but because I was pregnant with my second child, I didn't have a good-- 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:12.900 [AB]: Experience 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:58.000 [HB]: No. But there is-- We went from Chittagong, every port in India, we had to stop because they were picking up cargoes. But the incident happened, one incident happened, is when we set sail from Bombay to Suez Canal. That Madagascar Island, the captain comes and says, “Nobody gets out! Close all your windows and stay inside, inside.” Because the pirates from there, they climb up the boats, and they come to everybody's room and rob you. Sometimes they even kill you, or they capture you and take, take you. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.500 [AB]: Oh my God. Kidnapping, too! 00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:30.000 [HB]: Kidnapping, too. So I said to my husband, me and my older daughter we were **laughing** scared to death like--. And then, when the boat stopped there, they had to stop the mid-ocean, because they have to take oil or something, I don't know. So the captain told us, and so we were looking through the windows and lo and behold there were pirates climbing up the boat. But it was there only for one night. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:37.500 So we all locked our doors and stayed indoors. The next morning it set sail from there to Suez Canal. 00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:44.400 [AB]: To Suez Canal. That’s a fascinating story. I’ve never heard that kind of a story before. All in that area. 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:56.200 [HB]: Yeah. All in that-- They, they kidnapped sometimes, the captain told us that the small boats, they captured them, and they take them and they eat the people! You know. 00:23:56.500 --> 00:23:57.200 [AB]: They eat the people? 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.600 [HB]: Yeah. They were such--**laughs** 00:24:00.100 --> 00:24:00.900 [AB]: **laughing** Cannibals! 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:28.800 [HB]: Cannibals! Yeah they said they are cannibals. Yeah, then, Suez Canal was quite an experience. Yeah, the boat does not keep on going. They gather in the Suez Canal area, and then there is a pilot boat, that after all the boats have assembled, the pilot boat takes you across the Suez Canal. 00:24:29.900 --> 00:24:38.500 And then we finished the Suez Canal, went to Atlantic Ocean. The Atlantic Ocean was very, um-- 00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:39.800 [AB]: Was it rough? 00:24:39.800 --> 00:24:40.900 [HB]: Yeah, very-- 00:24:40.800 --> 00:24:41.200 [AB]: Choppy? 00:24:41.400 --> 00:25:01.400 [HB]: Choppy. The boat went like this, you know? When it was very, very choppy, at night time we couldn’t--the visibility was very poor, and so the boats have to start--(inaudible). The boats were warning each other, you know. 00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:03.300 [AB]: Of their route, where they were 00:25:02.900 --> 00:25:35.800 [HB]: Yeah. “Don’t come near me. I’m at this point.” And finally, we reached the New York Port after 36 days. And then, I was in no condition, because I didn't eat or do anything in the boat. I was so sick. Then we landed in New York, and then we had to go to State College, Pennsylvania. So, it's another day. Then we went to Pennsylvania Station, in New York, which is no longer there. 00:25:37.000 --> 00:26:06.900 The Pennsylvania Station, we said there. And my husband said, “I have to go find out where the train leaves, while you and”--my daughter--“you both stay in this place while I go find out.” And he needed the porter to, to carry our stuff. While he was gone, **laughs** I see you all these big, big black people. 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:21.300 Coming up near, and said, “You need a porter? You need that.” And, I don't want to say the bad thing, but they look like **laughs**, you know. Should I say it? 00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:22.500 [AB]: Yeah! You can whatever 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:52.400 [HB]: They look like a, you know, rakush. With beads in their thing? And their husky build. They’re big, tall. And we were very--we come from India, so we have never seen them, and we were very scared. Especially my daughter, she just clung to me, you know. Shenali was like this, “Ma!” (inaudible) So, after about half an hour, 45 minutes, my husband shows up. 00:26:53.100 --> 00:27:23.900 And I got so mad. I told him, “Why did you leave us here? Go!” **laughs** Because we were scared to death. Then the train left Pennsylvania Station and went to Lewistown, in Pennsylvania. And, one of the Bengali boy, who was doing his master’s in Penn State University came to pick us up, in his car. And then we reached State College. 00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:55.500 And when we reached there, the professor under whom my husband was going to work, his wife came over, and he she said that she’d “rented an apartment for us. And there is food cooked in the refrigerator, so I'm all set.” And that was very nice of her. So here I am sitting in the apartment. My husband said, “I have to go to the university to find out where I'm going to be working.” 00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:16.300 So he left. And then I was sitting with my daughter, and I opened a refrigerator. They were Indian, Bengali-style Indian cooked food. And so I didn't know who could have done that. Then later on I found out that it was the daughter-in-law of Meghna Shah. 00:28:16.700 --> 00:28:20.700 [AB]: Oh! What a wonderful treat and surprise! 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:49.400 [HB]: Yeah. Meghna Shah’s son and daughter-in-law they lived in the same place where we went. And he’s--Meghna Shah’s son's name is Prasonjit. And the daughter-in-law was Rama. And they--he was doing his PhD, and while she was working, a little bit, doing babysitting for the professors’ kids. 00:28:50.200 --> 00:29:02.800 You know? It's a very, very small town, in a Penn State University. And then, I was very thrilled that after such a long time we were going to have some daal pot and daal curry. 00:29:02.900 --> 00:29:04.400 [AB]: That must have been a treat 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:36.900 [HB]: Yeah. And then, around three, four o’clock in the evening, in the afternoon. There was a knock at the door. And I said, “Who could be coming? I don't know anybody here.” So, but then, you know, as a courtesy, I had to open the door. And who do you think I met? Lo and behold 12000 miles away, I met my friend from Maharani’s College. Nalini Vihedum! 00:29:35.300 --> 00:29:39.400 [AB]: Oh my goodness! She was, she was there? 00:29:39.700 --> 00:30:08.000 [HB]: Nalini and her husband, Vedum, they were-- He was an assistant professor in the Physics department. And Nalini was living with him. We, me and Nalini, we went to Marahani’s College. And she, I had physics, math and, and she--chemistry. And she also have the same combination. So we had classes together. 00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:29.500 And, Nalini comes from a very important family. Her the whole family was very educated. Her sisters were very educated. In fact, one of her brother-in-law--I forget the name--he was the director of National Chemical Laboratory. 00:30:30.600 --> 00:30:33.400 [AB]: That’s a very enterprising 00:30:31.100 --> 00:30:47.400 [HB]: Very enterprising family. Yeah. And then Nalini came and said, “My God! I did not know that you were going to be here. **laughing** How on earth we get up together?” We were best friends, you know. 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.400 [AB]: That's such a wonderful story. 00:30:49.400 --> 00:31:01.300 [HB]: Yeah. And then we stayed in Pennsylvania, Penn State for about six, seven months. And then Vedum and Nalini, they went back to India. While we stayed there. 00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:11.900 [AB]: Okay. What were your, what did you expect from, what did you expect your life would be like in the United States before you came? Any thoughts about that? 00:31:11.900 --> 00:31:39.700 [HB]: Oh I had no idea how life would be. But, one thing that helped me is, because I could speak fluently, I could communicate with a lot of the local people. So, in fact after a year-and-a-half, I became very friendly with the local population. 00:31:40.200 --> 00:32:13.200 You know, for instance the grocery people, they came to know me. And I was pregnant with my second child. I had to see a doctor. And, so the doctor was very nice. The nurses were nice. And we had to go grocery shopping once a week. And the grocery people also came to know me, and my husband. And if we didn't go for one week, they would say, “Where were you?” But why I, what I realized was, they’re just like human beings, just like us. 00:32:13.700 --> 00:32:43.800 They’re very normal, very friendly. And they never locked the door, to the apartment, because this lady told me, “You don't need to lock the door because if you work in somebody's yard, you can get couple of dollars. Enough to buy you a bread. So there's no need to steal.” You know. I, I didn't have a, you know, I didn't have a sad life. In fact, I enjoyed it. 00:32:44.000 --> 00:33:13.200 I became friends with the professor’s wife. And, you know, she had two sons and I had two daughters. We went out picnicing in together, almost every other day, while my husband was working. And, her name was Kathy. And Kathy, said “You got two girls and I got two boys. Why don't we switch?” I said, “Okay, you give me one of your son, I'll give you one of my daughters.” **Amita laughs** 00:33:13.900 --> 00:33:21.100 We became like sisters. And it was very difficult to part, when we left State College, Pennsylvania. 00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:32.200 [AB]: What was the most striking, one of the first striking things, when you arrived in the United States? And what were the challenges you faced at that time? 00:33:33.400 --> 00:34:04:600 [HB]: Well when we arrived at New York, I found strange things, you know. Unfamiliar, strange things. So I was skeptical. “When I go to State College am I going to be the same kind of environment?” But to my surprise, people were very friendly. They had a cosmopolitan club inside the university. And all kind of, all national people, were there. 00:34:05:600 --> 00:34:40:200 Even though I didn't see too many blacks people at the university, there were a couple of, um, Europeans that came there to study. And also Philippines. There were Filipinos there who were doing PhD. In fact one of them were my husband’s student. But, I didn’t find it, you know, it's abnormal. I, I thought the family structure, at that time, in America, was very different from now. 00:34:41:000 --> 00:35:10:900 They nev--I never heard of Republicans. I never heard about Democrats. I never heard about poor people, rich people. That was, that was non-existent at that time. The university chancellor met with all the professors, and the fellows, and the students, once a year. And it was a nice gathering. It's open house. 00:35:10:900 --> 00:35:40.900 You go in and chit chat with the chancellor. And he said, like, “My dear fellow.” There was no, you know, distinction between the two. I mean you didn't feel afraid of him because he's had such a big position, that you might have to be different. It was not like that. They--we were like, when we met with each other, when we met with the Americans, it was like a family gathering. 00:35:41:400 --> 00:35:54:500 They had, in the summertime they had outdoor eating, swimming. And my kids were playing with their kids, in the university. There was no-- 00:35:54:600 --> 00:35:56.200 [AB]: Distinction between people 00:35:55:200 --> 00:36:08:100 [HB]: No. There was no--Only a little bit of, um, discrimination. Little bit of discrimination in the schools. 00:36:08:200 --> 00:36:08:600 [AB]: How? 00:36:08:800 --> 00:36:28:600 [HB]: When they were little kids, they didn't know, the, you know, the black and white, or the yellow or orange. So, if their parents--some of their parents might have discussed it in, at home. Even though outside we didn't feel. They, they gave a little trouble to my daughter. 00:36:28:700 --> 00:36:30:800 [AB]: Okay. That is unfortunate. 00:36:30:900 --> 00:36:58:400 [HB]: Yeah. But, in general, university towns are different. You never feel that you are some--you came from another country and they're going to treat you like that. There everybody was friendly. The family structure is the same, just like--our mothers and our fathers come and live with us, some-- In India they live in with the son. But in America they live in with their daughter. 00:36:59:000 --> 00:37:02:800 [AB]: That is Western. It’s much more a Western concept. 00:37:00:500 --> 00:37:27:500 [HB]: That is what I found out. And as far as the younger kids going out dating, and all that it was not that prominent, at the time. When they were 16 years old they had a coming out party. And, they in--I mean--introduced some of the boys to their daughters. And some of the daughters to their boys. And the parents were very involved, at that time. 00:37:27:900 --> 00:37:34:100 [AB]: Did you face any challenges here, when you first came? I mean would you consider it a challenge? 00:37:34:600 --> 00:37:37:900 [HB]: Well...State College, in-- 00:37:37:900 --> 00:37:43:500 [AB]: I know, I know Shonali faced a little bit of discrimination, maybe, when she was a child. 00:37:43:400 --> 00:37:47:900 [HB]: Yeah, but she also made lots of friends. She made lot of friends-- 00:37:47:400 --> 00:37:49:300 [AB]: Any challenges come to mind? 00:37:49:500 --> 00:38:18:100 [HB]: Mhm. Not really. No. And they were-- The one thing I noticed is that if you are highly educated, they respected you. So, it's not like in India. It’s, if you are a qualified person, and if they think that you can do some good work, in the universities, and other places, then they take your expertise and use it. 00:38:18:300 --> 00:38:18:900 [AB]: Very nice. 00:38:18:900 --> 00:38:47:300 [HB]: You know? That's not available now. But that's one thing about America I have to say. They appreciate, they give respect to, the people who are qualified, and who can do something for them, for the company, or for the institutions. They use their expertise, in any shape or form. 00:38:47:600 --> 00:39:00:700 [AB]: That’s true, that is true. Now, what particular people helped you adapt to your life in the United States? I mean, how did they help you? One is probably your professor’s wife. 00:39:00:700 --> 00:39:11:100 [HB]: Right. She, well, she helped me tremendously, because I was pregnant, new to a place, and I did not know the-- 00:39:11:700 --> 00:39:12:200 [AB]: Ropes 00:39:12:300 --> 00:39:44:300 [HB]: The child bearing, after their birth, how to take care of them, is totally different from India. So, the professor's wife bought me a buggy. And bought all the children's clothes, you know. Although they’re second-hand, but they didn't feel bad. They said, “We always use each other’s clothes, from generation after generation. And, she helped me get settled, you know? 00:39:44:800 --> 00:40:13:800 In many ways. And then my friend, Kathy, by being my friend normalized my life. And they-- My husband was a very qualified person. So, he got from the Physics department to Mineral Science, and he became an engineer in the Mineral Science department. He did a lot of work on electron microscope. 00:40:13:800 --> 00:40:46:300 And, he studied the surface structure, and all that. So, he was very intelligent, so they took his intelligence and put it to use, you know? In the research work. He also did a lot of research for the US Army, for the military. So when they realized that, “This per--this person is going to be awful lot of help to us,” they naturally, you know, made his life a little easier. 00:40:46:900 --> 00:41:18.000 You know, gave him a lot of freedom. And, as far as when he did research, they gave him everything that he wanted, to do the research. He published in a lot of the journals, and he was highly respected. In fact, they didn't want him to go back to India. They offered him a position and said, “You can stay here permanently.” They would sponsor him, you know. So everybody helped. The professors were tremendously friendly. 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:31.000 I went to--me and my husband and my kids were invited every other day to their houses. Summer time, especially, with picnicking and all that. So life was very nice, you know. 00:41:31.900 --> 00:41:39.600 [AB]: Good. Hena Di, we’re going talk about working in the United States. Did you work in the United States? 00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:58.600 [HB]: Well, when I first came to Penn State, I wanted to go back to school, but my husband, because of my kids, I couldn't go. But then, I, we went back, because we were on exchange visitor’s program. So we had to go back. And-- 00:41:58.700 --> 00:41:59.100 [AB]: To India 00:41:59.200 --> 00:42:28.900 [HB]: To India. And we stayed there for about a year, and then we came to Canada. My husband got Ford Foundation Fellowship, so we were in Canada, Toronto for about a year-and-a-half. Then we went back to India, again. Then after two, three years we came to Chicago. And when we came to Chicago, it was 1968 or ’69. 00:42:29.300 --> 00:42:58.300 And my husband worked in, um, Rice University in Texas. I didn't come with him. I waited until he got settled. And then while in Rice University, he wanted to earn more money. So, we came to State College--I mean we came to Chicago. And I joined him, from India. 00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:11.700 So he chose to work for a company, called Bankura Remo, even though we all objected to him, saying that, “Don't leave the education system 00:43:11.700 --> 00:43:12.400 [AB]: Academia 00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:44.600 [HB]: Academic life. But he chose to work for a company, even though that was also for research. And he lost his job. So when he lost his job, this was 1971, when the depression happened. Lot of the scientists lost their jobs. And they couldn't find employment. Same happened to my husband, because he was in the upper 40s, close to 50s. 00:43:45.100 --> 00:44:11.200 And they--it was very difficult for him to find a scientific job. Even though he worked, occasionally he worked at Northwestern University, for a couple of months. And then he worked with the University of Illinois Circle Campus, life was very difficult, in the beginning when we came to Chicago. 00:44:11.900 --> 00:44:13.600 [AB]: And this was, which year was this? 00:44:13.900 --> 00:44:14.100 [HB]: Huh? 00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:15.300 [AB]: Which year was this? 00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:19.000 [HB]: We came here the end of 1968 00:44:19.600 --> 00:44:21.000 [AB]: And this was ’71. 00:44:20.600 --> 00:44:53.600 [HB]: And this was one ’71. But, ’70, ’71. And then what happened was, end of ’69 they were telling him that--from the company--that he might not have the job because they don't have the money to pursue. There were 500 scientists working in that company and they all lost their jobs, including the director **laughs**. They couldn’t get any job. So I had to go to work. 00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:57.300 [AB]: Okay. What did you, what kind of work did you choose? 00:44:57.600 --> 00:45:26.700 [HB]: Well, I never had any experience working. I was a schoolteacher in India. After I got married, I work there as a school teacher for two years, and then I moved to Pune. That's the only experience I have. So, one of our-- And while we came to Chicago, we met a family there. Um, I forgot the name. 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:36.800 ...It was a Christian family. Well, anyway. If I remember--Huh? 00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:38.700 [AB]: Maybe the name will come back later 00:45:38.600 --> 00:46:11.200 [HB]: Yeah. And, they were also looking for a job. And we met with, we met--no wait. Um, Jackie and, uh, Pinto. Jackie Pinto and Eustice Pinto. They were Christian from Kerala. And they were very, very educated people. So when my husband lost job and couldn't find another one, for two years he tried to work at Northwestern and that. 00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:39.700 Then Jackie was--she had a master degree in Sociology--and she told my husband that, “Why don't we go work for the state of Illinois? But you have to sit for the exam, in order to qualify. But in between he worked at Northwestern. While he was in Northwestern, I went to work at Sears, as a salesperson, in the drapery section. 00:46:40.700 --> 00:47:09.600 And I found it extremely difficult, **phone rings** to manage the, um. So I found it extremely difficult to be a salesperson, because I'm not that kind of--I don't have that kind of adaptive nature, you know. I couldn't adapt to the sales idea. So I was going to leave. 00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:37.700 And the drapery manager, Mr. Fallon, came to me and said, “What would you like to do? Well, you shouldn't quit. We will see if we can accommodate you. What would you like to do?” I said, “I have a degree. You know, I know math, and I know science and all that. So, I could go to that kind of a line.” So he said, “Good! 00:47:37.800 --> 00:48:08.500 I will take you to the manag--I mean the accounting office. And let's see if they have a position for you.” So, I went and the manager was very nice, hired me right away. So I went to work there, you know, as a-- Sales slip addition, I did. 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:38.600 You know. No reports, no nothing. Just added them and told them how much money that, you know, that they sold. So within six months, after seeing the way I worked, he promoted me to sales analysis. So I did sales analysis. I did some part of the monthly closing. And, um. 00:48:38.900 --> 00:49:12.400 I got promotion after that, was transferred to another place in Vernon Hills, and I became the manager there. And, um. But that position did not work for me, because the supervisor had some other intention. And I worked there for many hours, they didn't pay me. then they had some other friend that they were interested to take my position. 00:49:12.500 --> 00:49:16.400 So, on a very flimsy ground, they let me go. 00:49:17.300 --> 00:49:20.900 [AB]: So do you feel that there was some discrimination going on? 00:49:20.700 --> 00:49:37.900 [HB]: Yeah, but the store manager knew me, very well, from before, from Golf Mill. So he said, “I can give you a manager position in this store.” I said, I refused. I didn't want to be a sales person anymore. Then I went home-- 00:49:37.900 --> 00:49:40.700 [AB]: So did you have to change, kind of, for career path? 00:49:40.100 --> 00:50:12.200 [HB]: Yeah, 1983 I, I went home. And I said to myself, “I have to do some business,” you know. That's when I started sewing. I'm good at sewing. So, I started small business, you know. I, I took contracts from the store, and I made tie-dye scarves, and things like that. It was very, you know, a lot of people were buying them. 00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:39.800 You know, it was-- And then I made money, out of that, you know. Quite a lot, because I decided to-- I did sewing for also a bridal shop. And even though I was working at Sears, on the side that was doing, you know, sewing for bridal shop, for odd sizes. You know that are not found in the stores. 00:50:40.700 --> 00:51:06.700 And, I did all this, earning money, because my husband, when he-- Then he found a job with the state of Illinois, but the money was not good as when he was a scientist. So we had to compromise. And, but I wanted my family, my girls, to go to India every year, when the summer vacation came. 00:51:07.100 --> 00:51:41.800 Because I wanted them to learn Indian culture, as well as learn, you know, know all the family, relatives, and the friends. That was very important to me that I kept in touch with my immediate family. So I had to send the girls in the summer months. And then I used to go back and bring them home. I did that for many years. And to do that, you need money! So I did sewing and all this other jobs to send my kids to India. 00:51:41.800 --> 00:52:11.600 And, I think that helped them to grow up, because there were not too many Indians here. You know, like aunts and uncles where I could send them, and, you know, they can spend some time with their kids. They were very--when we first came here--there were very few Indians. In the university, State College. Pennsylvania, there were only ten of us, you know? And I remembered, we had a friend in New York. 00:52:11.600 --> 00:52:26.600 She said there were about 17 families in New York, whole of New York. And then when we went to the Canada, Toronto, the were 16 families there. So there were not too many Indians. 00:52:26.600 --> 00:52:28.700 [AB]: Very small community at that time. 00:52:28.100 --> 00:52:49.800 [HB]: Very small. Even though we got together, from time to time, it does not enable the kids to know their families. So to me it was very vital that they come to know their immediate aunts and uncles and grandparents. You know? The grandparents wanted to see them, too. 00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:54.200 [AB]: Right. And then did you change careers, again? 00:52:54.700 --> 00:52:55.000 [HB]: Huh? 00:52:55.100 --> 00:52:59.200 [AB]: Did you change careers, again? You know, from what you were doing--um. 00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:31.300 [HB]: Okay. Then, what happened--After they lost a job at Sears, actually I went to my niece's wedding. (inaudible) I went to my nieces’s wedding. So they took that reason that I didn't have vacation, but that, that was the reason why they took my job away. So I was very depressed for a while. I tried to get jobs lot of places. But I found a job in a CPA office. 00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:58.300 I worked there for six months. And then I applied for a position at United Airlines. And I got the job there. So in United, I worked in the sales, and then I worked at the accounts receivable. And they gave me the account to balance, and take control of the directors’ accounts. So-- 00:53:58.300 --> 00:54:28.400 And also, the world wide small airlines, which are connected with United for transferring things. So I had that account, too. So I had a lot of experience from Sears. Sears is the one which molded my accounting ability. And while working at United my daughter got married and her husband came over. 00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:39.100 He became a doctor. He did his residency, and he started practicing. So this was in Chicago, 1978-79. 00:54:39.600 --> 00:54:41.100 [AB]: How old were you then, Hena Di? 00:54:41.100 --> 00:55:09.500 [HB]: I was--’81 I was like 50? 52. At that time, he started his own practice, and he needed somebody to take care of his billing, and other things. So, I had no experience in medical technology, medical **laughing** billings. Medical vocabulary. I was not a doctor. 00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:25.800 So, but then he forced it on me, and I had to learn it all over. And then **laughs** a couple of years later, in 1987, I started my own business, doing medical billing. 00:55:26.100 --> 00:55:29.400 [AB]: What was it called? What was the name of your business that you did? 00:55:29.800 --> 00:56:00.500 [HB]: I was an independent contractor. So, I took over his billing, plus I got four other doctors, and I did medical billing. At that time, the computer billing just was getting started. They were doing manual billing. And then, there was a, you know, um, great bill, it’s called. 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:27.400 The great bill is, you take--The doctor puts down all the names of the sickness, and all that. And they say, “I took care of this patient.” And send it to the insurance company, and insurance company paid him. But, in the ’88-’89, the medical billing system went to computer. 00:56:29.500 --> 00:56:57.800 At that time, Blue Cross and Blue Shield was servicing Medicare. So Blue Cross Blue Shield opened up the computer system, for them. So Blue Cross Blue Shield wrote to me, if I'm interested to take their program. But I was very lucky, I found an Indian entrepreneur who was opening his software company. And he’s still there, in South. 00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:28.100 And he opened up a company called, (inaudible) Electronic Manager. It was a different name, but now it's Electronic Manager. So he built his own software system, approved by Medicare and Blue Cross. And he was one of the four at the time. So he approached me, and I called him. 00:57:28.100 --> 00:58:03.900 And the Blue Cross Blue Shield gave me the list of four companies. So I saw his name, and I called him, and he came over. And I had a little, I had some knowledge of the computer system, by that time. ‘Cause I started in Sears, with the computer. That was the beginning. Then United also help me learn lot of the computer fields. And then when I started my own business, then I was able to capture the field, you know. 00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:22.200 I could understand what to do, and all that. So, my software guy came and, you know, showed me the program, and he helped me how to manipulate that. So, the computer system started at that time. ’87-’88. 00:58:22.200 --> 00:58:23.500 [AB]: That’s very early. Yeah. 00:58:23.500 --> 00:58:27.300 [HB]: Very early. So I’ve been doing medical billing since that time. 00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:29.800 [AB]: Okay. Are you still doing it Hena Di? 00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:58.900 [HB]: I’m still doing it. Even though, I had four doctors, five doctors. And now they have joined this group, medical group. So, everybody went except Dr. Bhadt and Dr. Munkhagi. So I still do their--even though Dr. Munkhagi moved to, he also joined the group. But Dr. Bhadt didn’t. So the heart specialist is still going, and I'm still doing. 00:58:58.900 --> 00:59:37.900 But in the, in the, in the **laughs** meantime, the medical system, evolved. Like you say, you know, from the handwriting billing, totally computer. And now you can transfer, transmit the claims. You don't have to manually do it. And then came this, ICD-9, and then from ICD-9 it went to ICD-10. And the whole medical system got revised a year ago, two years ago. 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:40.700 [AB]: Has it, is it easier? 00:59:41.300 --> 00:59:44.850 [HB]: It is, it has become more complicated. 00:59:44.850 --> 00:59:46.200 [AB]: Okay, alright. 00:59:46.400 --> 01:00:18.200 [HB]: More complicated. Because people, some of the doctors were swindling, and so **laughs**, they devised a system where it has to, the sickness has to match with the diagnosis. And, it has to, you know, cardiology can bill only these certain diagnoses and certain activities. The primary care can bill only certain activities. 01:00:18.200 --> 01:00:50.600 And, so the newer version of the medical system, the ICD-10, is-- Actually they're trying to, they’re not trying they made it. The rest of the world follows the ICD-10. Only America was little different. They did not care about this. They, the doctors did the great bill and they paid. But the fraud, because of fraud, and all that, they had to make it complicated. 01:00:51.100 --> 01:01:16.600 They have to revise it so that, you just cannot bill and get money, you know. You have to prove that you saw this patient, saw at this, at this location. What was the prior illness and what is the present illness. And the present illness has to has to, um, has to, oh-- 01:01:20.200 --> 01:01:20.400 [AB]: Match? 01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:25.400 [HB]: Synchronize, with the ICD, you know. 01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:25.600 [AB]: Okay. The ICD code. 01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:36.700 [HB]: Yeah. The codes changed. And know, when I started, I didn’t have to go to school. I learned by myself. But now we have to go to school. 01:01:36.200 --> 01:01:38.300 [AB]: That is amazing. That is amazing. 01:01:38.300 --> 01:01:55.000 [HB]: Yeah. It was very-- I think accounting helped a little. But, I think, I’m kind of a person if I chall--get challenged, I put my all into it. And I have to do it. I have to prove to myself that I can do it. 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:56.100 [AB]: I can see that. 01:01:56.100 --> 01:01:58.600 [HB]: I think that's a streak almost of the Indians have. 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:00.400 [AB]: Most of them have it? Yes. 01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:38.300 [HB]: Yeah. That’s the Indian nature, you know. Indians, by nature, are very smart. Very, very smart, and, you know. Indian kids are amazing. That's why they do so well in schools, and all that. But our beginning, the-- When we were going to school in the beginning, the system molded us, in such a way, that we can take any challenge. We can learn anything we want to. I think that's a trait in all Indians. You know? 01:02:37.100 --> 01:02:45.700 [AB]: That is true. Hena Di, you, are you a citizen of the United States? And if so, what prompted you to be come a citizen? 01:02:41.200 --> 01:03:12.500 [HB]: I’m--Yes. That’s a very, very complicated story. Because, I'm from India, was born in India. My family is in India, and my culture is from India. My religion is from India. I, I am totally Indian. Even though I came to America, and a lot of the American religious organizations tried to convert me. 01:03:12.500 --> 01:03:42.300 I did not agree to it, because our Indian religion tells us that all religions are equal. And if you want to go to another religious organization, and worship, you're allowed to do so. So, when I went to Christian churches, on Palm Sunday, and Christmas, I got-- 01:03:42.600 --> 01:04:15.200 In the beginning, they were very nice. They said, “Yeah, you are free to come.” But, after a while, they say, “Are you impressed with the religion, do want to change?” So, twice it happened to me. And I told them that the part of religion, the whole of Indian religion, the Hindu religion, that I belong to is a very, very compromising religion. They don't force you to do anything that you don't want to do. 01:04:15.600 --> 01:04:44.500 It's an open chapter. So, that's why India has got so many religious orders, like the Buddhists and the Jains. That impressed me. And also, lot of people don’t know, I think but, Ramkrisno Poromohongso experienced all the different religions. He ate their food. He did everything. 01:04:44.600 --> 01:04:58.900 He said, “I want to find out how different it is.” So, I was very impressed with that, that you can taste the religion, but it doesn't have to, you don't have to change. It doesn't have to convert you. 01:04:59.200 --> 01:05:05.800 [AB]: So how did it influence your becoming a citizen? I mean why did you, when and why did you become a citizen? 01:05:06.500 --> 01:05:35.900 [HB]: That's what I'm coming to. Because I'm true Indian. I come here, and I go to Ramkrisno Mission in New York. There was no Ramkrisno Mission before. And then I practice religion in my house, every day. And I'm a true believer of God. And I'm a true believer of Hinduism. Because Hinduism is not actually a religion. It's a way of life. 01:05:35.900 --> 01:05:36.500 [AB]: Philosophy 01:05:36.500 --> 01:06:00.600 [HB]: So it gives us a lot of freedom, you know? They have no restrictions, and that impresses me so much. So I didn't want to become a citizen, for a long time. Because I just thought that, “Someday I'm going to go back to India, and I'll be living where I was living before.” You know, go to the temple. 01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:30.200 I also, from my childhood, I was very impressed with the religious organizations and the temples. So, at the age of 5 or 6, I would go to the temple every day. Get the Prasad. And also, you know, in India they have lot of drama going on. Krishna, Leela, this and this. So, that made me so impressionable. 01:06:30.200 --> 01:06:59.500 You know that-- I always loved to go there and I felt so good about it. And so when a time came that, for my job, and for my future, for my senior years, I have to become a citizen. Because if I don’t, I get reduced pension, reduced Social Security. And if I go back to India, it will be less. 01:07:00.500 --> 01:07:14.200 So that's when I decided to become citizen. I came to America in 1958-59. I became a citizen in 1996. 01:07:15.300 --> 01:07:17.800 [AB]: Quite late. You resisted **laughs**. 01:07:16.200 --> 01:07:19.000 [HB]: Quite late. I resisted. 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:19.700 [AB]: Okay **laughs** 01:07:19.700 --> 01:07:29.000 [HB]: Yeah. But now the environment is so different. No there are a lot of Indians. We have alot a religions institutions here. And-- 01:07:29.200 --> 01:07:31.000 [AB]: It doesn’t seem to be, that it’s-- 01:07:30.600 --> 01:07:33.500 [HB]: It doesn’t seem to make any difference. 01:07:33.500 --> 01:07:36.100 [AB]: No, it doesn’t make any difference. I hear you. 01:07:36.100 --> 01:08:02.100 [HB]: Yeah. But I have no, no, you know-- I don't have any problem with other religions. I'm very free to go. I go to church, if I have to. I have friends, who are here. Yeah. And I have Muslim friends even way back when I was going to school in Dhaka, you know. 01:08:02.100 --> 01:08:12.600 [AB]: I know that. So, was the citizenship process in 1996, was it, a simple process? 01:08:13.600 --> 01:08:37.100 [HB]: It wasn't that hard. You have to go to give an exam, and then you pass the exam exam you get your citizenship. You know, the citizenship makes it easier, because I have to leave in here, because my kids are here. I could go back to India, anytime I want to. But I'm involved now with my children and my grandchildren. 01:08:37.100 --> 01:08:56.300 And, I have to stay here, and so why not--you know, becoming a citizen doesn't mean you have to give up everything else. Yeah. And I live in America and I love this country. I got a lot of things from here. It has taught me a lot of things. 01:08:56.300 --> 01:09:23.900 [AB]: Right, and that’s my next question to you. My next question is, in what was do you think you was an individual have contributed to, or had an impact on American life? ...Have you-- I mean through your family, your work, your connections. What do you think your contribution has been, if there has been any contribution? 01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:56.500 [HB]: To, well, you know. Just like I learned a lot of things from America, America also has learned a lot of things from me. Where I come from, what my religion is, why I'm so insistent on keeping my religion, not change over. And also, I found a family life. If you really want to know the two cultures, the Indian and the American cultures. 01:09:58.300 --> 01:10:26.400 The ultimate family structure is not any different. You know? It's not different at all. It is the same. And I learned from there, and they also learned that I come from a different kind of family structure, but the values are the same. Their values and my-- It depends on what kind of family come from, you know, also. 01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:57.700 And one thing I learned in my life, if you are-- You try to stay together, with any kind of, any community, who are at par with yourself. You know? Do not go to the rich family and try to compete with them, because that will never work. And do not go to somebody who is below your structure, because then they envy you. You know? 01:10:57.900 --> 01:11:05.800 And you don't want that animosity. So, you stay with the same structure level, and I think-- 01:11:05.800 --> 01:11:07.400 [AB]: Social structure level. 01:11:07.200 --> 01:11:32.700 [HB]: Social structure level. So I learned it from-- American values are also the same. You know, people don't know about this, but when I lived in Penn State, I realized that they also have this thing that-- Try to mingle with people that are at par with yourself. Then, the jealousy, and other thing does not come into the picture. 01:11:32.700 --> 01:11:50.100 [AB]: Sure, sure. And, there's a question that says that, what do you think is your group's most important contribution to the building of the Indian Community in Chicago and Illinois? Would you attest that to the Bengali community? 01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:52.900 [HB]: I help a lot of people. 01:11:53.200 --> 01:11:54.000 [AB]: Right. So-- 01:11:54.200 --> 01:11:56.400 [HB]: I helped when we were in Penn State-- 01:11:56.700 --> 01:12:02.600 [AB]: What is the group’s most important contribution? Or you, as an individual, with that group? 01:12:05.300 --> 01:12:13.700 [HB]: That's a very difficult question. Because, there are so many groups, that is very difficult to identify. 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:24.000 [AB]: I would, I would attest if it’s Chicago and Illinois, maybe to the most common group, that you may think of. Maybe the Bengali group? 01:12:24.500 --> 01:12:53.900 [HB]: When I first came to Chicago, there was not a big Bengali group. But there was an international group, okay? And it was not too big. But, like, Eustice and Jackie Pinto, he was also involved with the thing. In the beginning, there were-- I mixed with the Indian (inaudible), Indian Akigyanobali, Indian National (inaudible). 01:12:54.300 --> 01:13:24.900 Um, there was, there is a group, inter-Indian, Indo American Society. So, I think that's originated in Chicago long time ago. So, we all participated in it. We all had a common bonds. Like, I had Eustice and Jackie Pinto, and there are some others, I forgot that. We, we were helping each other. 01:13:25.200 --> 01:13:53.000 Like my husband was helped by Jackie, who said she had--I told you--she had a social, social, Sociology master’s. And she tried to help my husband saying that, “You have to find a job that's going to be permanent.” So like that little things. And my kids didn't have any relatives here, and they were kind of small. 01:13:57.100 --> 01:14:02.900 So, when I had to go to India, or do something, I got help from them. They took care of my kids. And-- 01:14:02.900 --> 01:14:03.800 [AB]: That is huge 01:14:03.800 --> 01:14:30.800 [HB]: You know? So, but that goes with the American kids, too. I helped lot of Americans. My daughters’ friends, the South Vietnamese, and there was a Japanese. And they came to my house, and we went, I went to one of-- Their mom called us and we went there. We were helping each other, you know? American kids, too. 01:14:30.700 --> 01:15:02.500 In fact, in 19--um. ’65, ’66 I wasn't here. We came at ’69. So, Shonali born and went to school, 1970. Maine East High School. That was a very bad time of American life. Because the Vietnam War stopped. 01:15:03.100 --> 01:15:30.600 And the school kids got involved. The older children, involved with the younger children. And there was a drug problem. And there was not a problem with the younger generation. So, my younger daughter had American friends, who were kicked out of the house, because of this problem. 01:15:30.400 --> 01:16:00.500 And the parents wouldn't allow them to come back home. And, I took them in. And I told them--I was in Mount Prospect at that time--I told them, “You can come to my house anytime you want.” And Shonali was, she's a very outgoing, nice, and she feels bad for the kids, you know. She went to school and college here, so she knows the system. 01:16:00.400 --> 01:16:28.000 And, so couple of the kids got saved from this because of me. Because of my open arms to them. That, you know, if you abandon them, they're going to go bad. But if you told them that you love, and give them some affection, and teach them that these are not good things to you. They will come back. 01:16:28.700 --> 01:16:30.200 [AB]: That is a big contribution. 01:16:30.200 --> 01:17:00.600 [HB]: You know? And I had several of them, I would, don't want to tell you the name, but there were several of them, that I gave help. Helping hand. In Bengali community, too, there were-- When Shonali and Athushi, they were going to go to-- They were going to University of Illinois. Drugs was a very bad thing. Shonali used to say, “Mom. If you go to the 4th floor, you'll never come back.” **laugh together** 01:17:01.000 --> 01:17:30.500 It's a place for all the drug addicts. And it was very hard for kids like them not to get involved, you know? But, I made it-- I told them, “Listen. You want to go out and have fun. That's fine. But you have to tell me where you're going, and what time you going to come back, and what location you're going. So that if something happens I can always go back and find you there. 01:17:31.500 --> 01:18:00.800 “But if you don't tell me, there's no way I can save you.” I taught both of my girls that, from the very young age. That, “I’m not going to stop you from having fun. You are-- I brought you here. It's my fault. And I have to have, you know, some supervision over you. And you're not American kids. You know, that you have to stay ’It's my life.’ 01:18:01.500 --> 01:18:25.200 “It's your life, fine. But your life is precious to-- You know, if you give it away, that's fine. But if you don't give it away, then let me help you. You know? So, tell me where you're going.” And, I had restrictions that you-- I told Shonali, “Whatever place you go, by 12 o’clock you must be home.” You know. My younger daughter didn't listen to me! 01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:26.700 [AB]: Always good advice 01:18:26.700 --> 01:18:45.200 [HB]: Yeah. But I knew all her friends. I’d made it my business to know Parnali’s each of her friends. Shonali’s each of her friends. And I could trace them what they're doing. You know, I was, in that respect I was very smart. I said, “You cannot hide from me. I will find you.” 01:18:45.200 --> 01:18:47.600 [AB]: **laughs** Before-- 01:18:47.600 --> 01:19:15.600 [HB]: And also, one more thing. At that time, that era, they were not too many Indians. So, you know, you have a problem, you go ask another Indian to help you, they won’t, because they don't want to participate in that. It was very difficult at that time. Because you don't have relatives, you don’t have uncl--Now, most of the Indian families they have relatives here. You di--I didn’t have that. 01:19:16.300 --> 01:19:19.300 [AB]: No. That luxury, it’s a luxury, yes. 01:19:19.200 --> 01:19:22.400 [HB]: No. It was very, very difficult to raise kids at that time. 01:19:22.400 --> 01:19:34.100 [AB]: Right, right. Hena Di, before we wrap up our talk, is there anything you would like to add that we didn't talk about? Any special story? 01:19:35.500 --> 01:20:08.200 [HB]: Um. I would like to-- When I came here, I didn’t-- First day--one or day--one or two days, I found it very difficult. Because Americans talk in a funny way. English--it’s not an English English. So it takes, took me awhile to get used to it. Especially Pennsylvanians, they have a, you know, different kind of, um-- 01:20:08.200 --> 01:20:08.700 [AB]: Accent? 01:20:08.900 --> 01:20:29.200 [HB]: Accent. And so, after that got used to this, life wasn't that hard. But, because we're Indians, and we live here without any backing, you know, that something happens, we’ll go-- 01:20:28.700 --> 01:20:29.700 [AB]: Support system. 01:20:29.700 --> 01:20:56.200 [HB]: Yeah. There was no support system. But, my objection is that--I did get some help from very close friends--but what I'm saying is, nowadays, I don't know how far it is abandoned, but I feel like that we Indians have to keep our eyes open, and help the people in need. 01:20:57.000 --> 01:20:57.400 [AB]: Yes. 01:20:57.600 --> 01:21:27.600 [HB]: It's absolutely necessary, especially in our Bengali community. And also there are lot of senior citizens now. These people have ocme here, and they struggled to make living here, and made the field for other Indians to come. You know? Like my husband, Dr. Majumdar. And there was one, Dr. Mitru, who even taught Tej Vedanta to the Americans! 01:21:28.500 --> 01:21:33.400 You know, he impressed them so much. So they-- The Americans are also-- 01:21:33.400 --> 01:21:34.200 [AB]: They forged the way 01:21:34.200 --> 01:22:05.600 [HB]: --well-versed now with Tej Vedanta. They talk about all this. It is because we went out, and we opened our arms, and we discussed all this. But I think now, because there are so many Indian people, that thing is not going too well. And my advice would be to the newer generation, open your arms and go help. Find help, you know. If there, there is a family who have got old father and mother, go see if they need any help. 01:22:05.100 --> 01:22:28.200 The kids are helping them, that's fine. But once in awhile, they can go and say, “Is there something I can do for you? Or can I take you somewhere? Or may not, may I bring some cooked food for you?” The senior citizens, like me, are finding it extremely difficult now, because they don't have any support. Except my kids, there's no support! 01:22:28.200 --> 01:22:30.800 [AB]: There is no support because you feel a little isolated. 01:22:30.800 --> 01:23:01.000 [HB]: No. But when I was young, when I helped lot of people. Like, I’ll tell you. There was one boy-- Well you know Shanti Pandit, don’t you? His second son, Bobby Pandit. Okay. He came to America at the age of 17, 18. When his father asked me, “Do you think it's a good idea to send Bobby to America?” 01:23:01.100 --> 01:23:09.200 I said, “Not at all. He's much too young. Let him finish his schooling, and when he has some sense in his head, then you send him.” 01:23:09.200 --> 01:23:10.700 [AB]: Which year was this, Hena Di? 01:23:11.100 --> 01:23:18.500 [HB]: Um. This was 1972? ’71, ’72. 01:23:09.200 --> 01:23:19.500 [AB]: 1970--‘cause you said 17, 18. 01:23:20.200 --> 01:23:20.500 [HB]: Okay. 01:23:21.100 --> 01:23:23.800 [AB]: You said 17, 18. So 1972. 01:23:24.100 --> 01:23:55.200 [HB]: Yeah. So he comes here, he goes to (person name) niece's house, in Texas. He got mixed up with a America--young American girl. And the American girl when found--he found out, she found out that his parents are well-known in India, and have a very decent life, she broke up the relationship. And he, Bobby Pandit, went berserk. You know? “What am I going to do?” 01:23:55.800 --> 01:24:22.700 And he was not working. He was taking (speaking Bengali). So I told Bobby that, “This is not the way of life for you. You know, you have to find a job, and you come from a respectable family. Be respectable.” But he did a lot of bad things. And who do you think, in the end, helped him? Me. 01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:26.400 [AB]: That was very generous spirit 01:24:24.600 --> 01:24:56.600 [HB]: He comes from--Yeah--from Texas. He has that, German bug. You know, that little bug, they call? He puts his pots and pans and the TV in the back seat. And he drives all the way back, comes to my house. “I need a place to stay.” And then I said, “Of course,” you know, “I’m not going to throw you out. I don't like the way you live, but because I know your father, I have to save your life.” 01:24:56.600 --> 01:25:25.600 So I took him in! He stayed in my house, but that didn't stop him from doing other things. But, in the end, I told him that, “You know, this is not a game to life. You came to America. Your father sent you here to make something out of your life. So the only way you can do this, and be truthful to yourself.” So I said, “Go back home.” And he's after girls. 01:25:26.400 --> 01:25:55.000 So I said, “Go back home. Your father can find you a nice girl. Get married. And then come back.” So he went home, got married, came here, stayed in my house. And the girl he bought, no good. So I said to him, “You move out of my house. Find an apartment, and live your life. And be responsible for yourself.” 01:25:55.000 --> 01:26:17.000 [AB]: Okay. So that is a good message, Hena Di. And, I want to thank you, for sharing your memories, your history, with us. We feel privileged. Thank you very much. And at your-- if it's okay, I will stop the talk, discussion right now. Okay?