WEBVTT 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:23.000 [JITESH JAGGI]: Okay this is Jitesh Jaggi from the National Indo-American Museum today interviewing Mrs. Hema Rajagopalan August 2020 at 11:30 a.m. Can you please spell and state your name? 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:33.000 [HEMA RAJAGOPALAN]: Spell: H-E-M-A, Hema Rajagopalan, R-A-J-A-G-O-P-A-L-A-N 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:37.400 [JJ]: When and where were you born? 00:00:37.400 --> 00:00:44.300 [HR]: I was born in 1950 in Chennai, India. 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.300 [JJ]: And what languages did you speak growing up? 00:00:47.300 --> 00:01:08.000 [HR]: I first spoke Tamil, of course, and then I was speaking a little bit of English because I went to a convent school. And then Hindi and Punjabi because I was growing up as a young girl in school in New Delhi. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.700 [JJ]: Oh, so your education was in New Delhi? 00:01:10.700 --> 00:01:11.100 [HR]: Yes 00:01:11.100 --> 00:01:13.300 [JJ]: And did your family move? 00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:18.900 [HR]: Pardon me? My family moved in 1956. 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:27.300 [JJ]: And how would you describe your experiences growing up in your hometown? 00:01:27.300 --> 00:02:01.200 [HR]: In my hometown in Delhi or in Chennai? I’ll first talk about my experience in Chennai. Yeah so my grandfather was the first Principal Information Officer, he was a journalist of free India. His name was A.S. Iyengar. So he was very much with the Freedom Fighters and so this led up to the independence in 1947 So when I was born in 1950 he was the first Principal Information Officer of free India. 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:02.700 [JJ]: So, I’ve heard his name, actually. 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:12.000 [HR]: He has written a book, “Through the Gandhian Era.” He talks about all the, you know, important episodes that led up to the independence. So when I was growing up as a young girl, my mother and father were in Mumbai at that time. So, like, when I was three years old up until 6, I was with my grandparents. 00:02:32.400 --> 00:03:02.400 And I was the only child, so I have vivid memories of my going to places with my grandfather in the car. So he used to take me to all these--well--he went to meetings with these big stalwarts in the political world like Kamaraj or Rajaji or Satyamurthy--these were in Chennai. 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:31.200 And so, and then sometimes there would be politicians coming from Delhi and so they would all meet in a place called The Cosmopolitan Club which was a place that they all met, and of course, they also, my grandfather used to go to other people's homes like Rajaji’s home and Kamaraj’s home so my home when I was growing up at that time I was-- 00:03:31.200 --> 00:04:02.600 I don't remember the details, ‘cause I was too young but I know that my house was full of Gandhiji’s images and photographs with my grandfather and he used to talk about Gandhiji and that time he was not there. So talk about Sardar Patel and he was telling me stories about them and you know so my life was very much because they were no children in that home. 00:04:02.600 --> 00:04:29.200 I was the only child. So both my grandparents were doting on me to tell me all these stories. So I grew up with a lot of historical stories of important people, so that influenced me a lot and he talked about the Freedom Movement and you know, Gandhi, Gandhian philosophy and telling the Truth. 00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:57.200 He talked about the Ramayana, being influenced by Rama, so many things, you know, in my mind. I used to be sitting in the car while he went to the meetings along with my driver. So I owe a lot of my early understanding of mythology to my driver who didn't have any children. He used to tell me all these stories while I was sitting in the car with him. 00:04:57.200 --> 00:05:27.200 So this is my early--and of course my grandmother would always talk about gods and goddesses and so on and so forth. So I was very much God-oriented and you know goodness-oriented--that kind of a thing--what is right, what is wrong, kind of thing. And my grandfather unfortunately passed away in, I think it was early ‘56 or ‘55 somewhere there. 00:05:27.200 --> 00:06:00.200 And my parents came to, of course, came there to Chennai and I was initiated into dance there, into Bharatanatyam. So I started my dance training when I was 6 years old actually. So my teacher was a Devadasi (a hereditary female dancer or courtesan in a Hindu temple.) Her name was Swarnasaraswathi, and she was the sister of, cousin of Balasaraswathi who was very famous. 00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:28.500 They come from a hereditary traditional family. So she had just started a school there, so I started training with her and apparently they found, I mean, my teacher found me to be like a blotting-paper, absorbing a lot of things, so within six months she thought that I could give a debut performance of 3 hours which I did. And that was in 1956. 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:57.800 So what they call as an Arangetram, which is to ascend the stage, which nowadays I do it after 10 or 12 years of training for my students. I did it when I was 6 for various reasons. One reason was my parents were moving to Delhi and so the teacher thought that I could finish something here and so I did. So it was written about in the newspapers because my grandfather was a big journalist, a well-known person. 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:26.800 There was also Dads, where a lot of people talked about me being his granddaughter and that kind of thing. Then we moved to Delhi. So what I want to tell you is, my life was surrounded by just dance and you know talks about mythology, Ramayana, Mahabharata and more about these doyen figures who were legendary figures. 00:07:26.800 --> 00:08:03.500 Sardar Patel and Gandhiji and Nehru and so many other people that have values, Kamaraja, Kamaraj Naidu, Rajaji. So when I went to Delhi then my parents put me in a, another dance school. Of course, the brother of that person there, his name was Dandayudapani Pillai in Chennai who's again a very big Guru. 00:08:03.500 --> 00:08:27.300 They come from the regular direct lineage of Guru, Guruparampara. So he was one of the four leading gurus in the city in Chennai, so he had said why don't you take lessons with my brother in Delhi so I started learning with him there. His name is Pakkiriswami Pillai. 00:08:27.300 --> 00:08:58.900 He was of course a violinist, but he also, since his brother was a dance teacher and they come from that, you know, come from that lineage, so they knew the dance and he also had started a school there. So I was learning and again when I was 9, it was 1959 I had another performance in Delhi, at Sapru house, which again was an Arangetram, by their means. 00:08:58.900 --> 00:09:26.000 Because they had changed my style. So, you can see that I'm always really busy with the dance, so I've been dancing, dancing, dancing, because it's not easy to give a performance within a certain time. So at age 9 I performed again. And at that time Dr. Radhakrishnan, S. Radhakrishnan, who was the current Vice President was the chief guest. 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:58.000 And the speaker of the Lok Sabha was Ananthasainam Iyengar was also the chief guest. And so my journey into dance started, and right when I was 10 years old, I had started performing solo. So in those days I'm talking 1960, there weren't that many you know dancers or performances happening, even in New Delhi. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:27.500 So even in New Delhi my parents were very involved and my father who was an engineer in the Indian Airlines at that time and also was a glider, he was very much interested into gliding, but it was my mother who was actually basically, you know, pushing me into performing. So I performed quite a lot in the northern areas like Benaras, Lucknow, Allahabad-- 00:10:27.500 --> 00:10:56.500 In the music conferences that used to go on all night long. My father of course, always traveled with us and drove, drove us around to these places. So my life was always involved in rehearsing, performing, rehearsing, performing, and that was what was happening. And I went to school first I went to Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, but then I changed to Mount Carmel Convent in Delhi. 00:10:56.500 --> 00:11:28.100 So I finished my schooling but did not have much time for socializing or I would say, I don't remember to have, I have very few friends, 2 or 3. But then I didn't have time to really cope with my performances as well as the learning process. And I used to come every summer for 3 months to Chennai to learn under my Guru, Dandayudapani Pillai. And then again, come in December to Chennai again. 00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:59.000 So both times I used to perform even in Chennai. So my life has been only performance-geared. Then it so happened that I met my husband whose family my parents knew and they were also into arts, not dance, but also Gandhian, you know, his uncle was very much involved with the Gandhian something, I'm not sure what that organization was, Gandhi something. I'm forgetting now. 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:28.000 And he, he being his nephew, we met and actually I got married, even after school and I was just 17 years old. So we got married in 1968. At that time, my husband was in the Indian Railways so he was posted in then, I think Allahabad or Benaras. No, Allahabad for some time, and then Lucknow. 00:12:28.000 --> 00:13:00.000 And then he got transferred to Delhi, of course, and then I went to Lady Irwin College in Delhi. I did my Home Science Bachelor's and I did Master’s in Nutrition but all along I was performing. So the scenario in Delhi was such that it was a very very political and bureaucratic. And this was in 1968-69. 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:37.200 We had gotten Independence in ‘47. Bharatanatyam, the Renaissance of dance was very much in the air. I was performing a lot. There were critics talking about me, very much that I'm the upcoming, the next person. At that time, the luminaries who were dancing, well, senior to me who were dancing were Yamini Krishnamurthy, Indrani Rahman and Sonal Mansingh who is now a big Rajya Sabha member. Sonal-- 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:38.600 [JJ]: Very elder to you also 00:13:38.600 --> 00:14:05.600 [HR]: She's six or seven years older to me, not too much. I think she’s six or seven years older to me. So there again was a very good thing because Sonal was more proficient and also doing Odissi. Odissi was just getting more prominent at that time and her husband was Mansingh. He was also in the IFS and he was also an ambassador at Washington. 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:37.600 So it so happened that they were good friends with my husband's uncle, and so we met. We have known each other, we met, and we knew each other's dance scenarios. And so there was a proposal that she brought up talking about her doing Odissi and I doing Bharatanatyam so that we could diversify the audience and they could get a better audience. So we did many of those performances together. 00:14:36.700 --> 00:14:37.900 [JJ]: Was it a duet? 00:14:37.900 --> 00:14:38.200 [HR]: Pardon me? 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:39.500 [JJ]: Like a duet? 00:14:39.500 --> 00:15:11.600 [HR]: No, not like a duet. She would do Odissi first half, and I would do Bharatanatyam in the second half. So that people got in the same performance, they get to see two. So that was a new scenario. We did quite a number of those performances and that was a time that I also performed many performances at the Rashtrapati Bhavan and there used to be those banquet performances that I did. Soon I came to realize that... 00:15:11.900 --> 00:15:41.900 One needs to be promoting yourself in order to get anywhere. So you have to market yourself and you have to politically maneuver those things, whether it’s the government, politics, or whether it is any other scenario that you have to move it from that point of view. And I didn't seem to like that at all. So even if the critics have to come, you know, 00:15:41.900 --> 00:16:14.300 I have to woo them in the sense that I had to get them to come, I had to be nice to them. I totally did not like that, so the one reason being, of course, I was also young and very idealistic and, and I'm not blaming anyone but I think I was also very sheltered and did not see the world. So when I actually started seeing the world because I had a different vision of the, vision of the world, around me. 00:16:14.300 --> 00:16:47.300 You know I'm talking about Rajaji, and you know, those kind of people, right? Gandhiji, Sardar Patel, and Kamaraja Naidu. And then here I am with a different set of ideals, a different set of values where, you know, it didn't matter if you were a good dancer but it mattered as to how you behaved with that person, you know, how much you leveraged your relationship. 00:16:48.000 --> 00:17:20.300 And I did not like that at all. I was very, very slowly, I was kind of internally, very, very uncomfortable with the whole situation. And I’d just finished my Master's in Nutrition. That I did because, you know, I think I just wanted to do something with myself, ‘cause I didn't think I was happy with the Home Science degree that I got. I was very interested in the sciences and originally I wanted to become a doctor which I didn't. 00:17:20.300 --> 00:17:53.400 But then I thought okay, I was very interested in the nutritional aspect of the health, so that was that. And then this was in 1970-71, somewhere there, my husband was still in the Railways and my daughter was born in 1972, her name is Krithika Rajagopalan. And I'm not sure what it was, whether it was postpartum depression or something like that. 00:17:53.400 --> 00:18:27.300 I thought--and somebody close to me said to me, “Oh, You’ve got a child now, you know. And anyway you, you're not going to take dance seriously,” and that kind of-- So I didn't like what I was hearing. So there was a kind of a downside. I was very, very upset with what was happening internally. So at that time my husband who had already gotten a green card, he had a green card when he married me in ‘68, but never came to the US. 00:18:27.300 --> 00:18:56.000 And he thought it might be a good idea for us to come out just for a couple years, so he can do his Master’s in Management or something like that, some studying abroad. And his boss at that time, in the Indian Railways was very kind and said you know, allowed him to have that kind of freedom, to come back. And so he came in 1974. 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:26.300 And I followed him. And it was supposed to be for a very short time, just 2 years. Just so that I could have a different--And I said I'm not going to do anything with dance, so that I have a totally, you know, free mind and see what was going to happen. So when I came to Chicago, I originally lived in New York and moved within a month to Chicago. 00:19:26.300 --> 00:19:46.400 So we lived in Forest Park in a one-bedroom, one-bedroomed apartment and my husband went to work as well as he studied, so both. And I started my work as a dietitian at Loyola Hospital 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.700 [JJ]: Oh wow! 00:19:47.700 --> 00:20:13.800 [HR]: So I was there for six months, so I used to catch a bus and go to Maywood and I thought, you know, I'm going to have a different, you know, life, maybe, which may change my mental attitude. But dance is something I never left because that's something like, you know, it's like water, fish without water, it’s not possible. 00:20:16.100 --> 00:20:42.600 So I had brought with me my music and tapes and my costume and bells, or whatever. But I didn't get an opportunity to dance while I was at the Loyola Hospital. But I used to practice on a daily basis because that's something that gave me a lot of peace of mind and a sense of belonging. I was totally, totally devastated. 00:20:42.600 --> 00:21:11.400 Because what I found outside me, around me, in Chicago, in the year ‘75 was really, really very saddening to me because that was the first time it hit me. I knew only a few people, like maybe under 10, that we came--they were mostly South Indians, and they were, you know, talking. I don't know how we met but we met. 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:42.500 And they all lived around Forest Park and Oak Park and very few people. And it so happened that I found that we all met every weekend for dinners and you know getting together. And invariably the topic was how bad India is. And how lucky we are that we are in this country, 00:21:42.500 --> 00:21:43.700 [JJ]: Escaped 00:21:43.700 --> 00:22:14.000 [HR]: That we escaped and how bad, you know, with the flies and the mosquitoes and the things not working and you know, chamchagiri (sycophancy) during the bureaucracy and the corruption. Which I knew of, I'm not saying no, but I didn't like the way they were bad-mouthing India. Something inside me felt, “but this is not right, why are they doing this?” So I'm a very quiet, I was a very quiet person, until then. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:43.200 But then I started voicing my opinion, like I used to say, “That's not right, we have a very rich cultural heritage that we have to be proud of.” And their slogan was more about melting into the melting pot, that, you know, I should not be putting on a bindi and walking around, I should be cutting my hair and, you know, that I will meet with a lot of, you know, people won’t be happy with me. 00:22:43.200 --> 00:23:14.700 And that we have chosen to come to this country and we have to melt into this melting pot. And I was totally against that. So as you see me today, I was still the same then. I never changed any of my ways. And of course my dietitian job came to an end because I didn't like that either because within 6 months I realized that you don't need a master's degree to be a dietitian, so. 00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:48.900 Somehow I didn't, I wasn't cut out for that so there ended the matter. And then one friend his name is Dr. Rajan, his wife's name is Shakuntala, he was a scientist at IIT. And he, you know, he was, he used to be much older than us. Both of them are no more and his son, his daughters are here and his son-in-law, his son-in-law is a doctor and his daughter is a PhD. 00:23:48.900 --> 00:24:19.700 So at that point they said, “Why don't you dance, because you know what? We would love to see you dance.” So then they arranged a very small event in a small community place somewhere there. In Oak Park I think, somewhere in Elmhurst. they used to live in Elmhurst. So I performed and at that performance, my first students joined me or asked me to teach them. 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:49.800 This was Dr. Hanumadass. I think they all know about Dr. Hanumadass, who was also a president of the Hindu temple. He and Pankaja, they approached me with their daughter Chandramati and they said, “Can you please teach our daughter?” And I said, “I don't know anything about teaching. I don't know how to teach.” And so then I said, “I’ll find out from my Guru, Dandayudapani Pillai.” 00:24:49.800 --> 00:25:09.300 And so I thought, maybe that's when I started thinking, maybe this is a good opportunity for me to educate, to bring awareness of our culture through dance to these small number of Indians that are there. And that's where my journey began, in teaching. 00:25:09.300 --> 00:25:36.200 [JJ]: I see. I’m sorry to interrupt you, but we have so many questions about you, your adult life here. I do want to just get into a little bit more of your childhood. So I know you spoke about being surrounded with mythology and stories about gods and goddesses. Was your family and later on, you, were you practicing a certain religion? What was it and-- 00:25:36.200 --> 00:26:09.100 [HR]: We were Hindu, we are Hindus and, of course, my grandfather, as I remember it, in my home that we used to be always, my father saying some Mantras doing the Pooja, prayers. My mother doing--what my mother always used to go to in Delhi. In Delhi there used to be a Hanuman Mandir, it was right in Connaught Place. So we used to, go to that Hanuman Mandir every Tuesday and there also used to be another South Indian temple much later, but it was the Hanuman Mandir that was there. 00:26:09.100 --> 00:26:38.500 And there was a Guru...Sikh temple, a Gurudwara. Right next to the gurudwara was a Kalibari, a Kali Temple. So my mother used to go to the Kali temple on Fridays. So I accompanied my mother to both these places but I didn't, I don't think I had that kind of a, my parents were not ritualistic that way, that we sat and did the Pooja 00:26:38.500 --> 00:27:03.600 Nothing like that. It's only that I saw my mother doing something and I was busy with my school and dance. I would say it is something after, after I got married, maybe a little bit, that I started getting involved more. But as a child I don't think I was so much into it. But it's just that my dance gave all this information. 00:27:03.600 --> 00:27:35.300 You know, mythology, the--You know looking around, if you look at my house, it’s all surrounded by Ramayanas and Mahabharatas and so on and so forth. You’re always surrounded by these things. So it was that, but then also my own self, when I started teaching here, then I had to delve more into the subject matter in order to teach. So I was always inclined towards learning philosophy a lot. I read a lot about religions not just Hinduism. 00:27:35.300 --> 00:28:09.400 I just love philosophy, so whatever it is, I read about other religions too, just so that I know what it is. I'm still, I'm still a student, I’m in quest, you know? Who am I? What am I? What are these religions? What do they say? What are the commonalities? So yeah. I don't think as a child I was ever, we were ever into it, either but of course we had the daily poojas that everybody does. And also those festivals like the Janmashtami or the Diwali, that was it, nothing serious. 00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:14.500 [JJ]: Could you talk to us a little bit about your parents, about your mother about your father? 00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:45.100 [HR]: My mother was a--right from the childhood, she also, was very much surrounded by the, by the big leaders, by Gandhiji, for example. As I said my father was, my grandfather, A.S. Iyengar was in New Delhi. In those days before the freedom, the government shifted from New Delhi to Simla for six months, so my mother was actually was born in Simla. 00:28:45.100 --> 00:28:51.600 So she's actually alive and she's 90 years old, she's in Chennai right now. 00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:52.200 [JJ]: What’s her name? 00:28:52.200 --> 00:29:23.700 [HR]: Rukmini Rajan. So she was one of six children. My grandfather--She, her mother died when she was born. So it was my mother, my grandmother's great-aunt, that brought up these children. So there were three, three daughters and three sons. So none of them, only one person took up journalism, the rest of them were not--couple of them. 00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:53.100 Amongst the three, it's only--my, my mother was the youngest, so she went to school in Simla for 6 months. She used to do horse riding and she was in Delhi for 6 months, so she was very much into all the other things. She can talk fluently in Punjabi and in Hindi. She was also very, very active. She was an activist. She was, she was very much molded by my grandfather. 00:29:53.100 --> 00:30:23.600 So during the freedom fighting times or whatever, she was very much involved with an organization called BalkanjiBari, and that was all like socialistic kind of, reforming kind of organizations. She became very close friends with Lord Mountbatten’s daughter and I still have pictures of that, if you would like to take a picture, I’ll bring that. So she was very close friends with her, Pamela Mountbatten. 00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:53.400 And so because Pamela--Mountbatten was the last Viceroy in India, right? So see you’re talking about that era. So my mother was initiated into dance. She wanted to dance, so she learned dance. Her sister learnt Manipuri and she learned Bharatanatyam. But she was never allowed to dance, you see, she was never allowed to dance, outside. So she never gave a performance. 00:30:53.400 --> 00:31:17.600 I still have her photograph, I can show her for you, dancing, but she didn't dance. So this was her big feeling, that she was not allowed to dance outside. So she apparently gave one performance in her lifetime. It was at the Regal Theater. I don’t know if you’ve been to--a cinema theater, right now. 00:31:17.600 --> 00:31:19.400 [JJ]: Is it in Mumbai? [HR]: It’s at Connaught Place. 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:21.800 [JJ]: Oh, Delhi. I see. Yeah. 00:31:21.800 --> 00:31:53.400 [HR]: Yeah. So she did one performance and that was it. So, she grew up and then, of course, she got married to my father at that point, and the rest is history. But as I was growing up, she was very much involved with a lot of organizations and not-for-profit NGOs, which was doing a lot of good stuff with vocational training of women. And she used to be one of those very few female drivers that drove her own car and she used to drive me to different places. 00:31:53.400 --> 00:32:04.100 So she was a very, very well-known, active woman in Delhi involved in social issues and things like that. 00:32:04.100 --> 00:32:05.600 [JJ]: And what about your father? 00:32:05.600 --> 00:32:23.500 [HR]: My father was an engineer and he retired as the Chief Engineer of Indian Airlines. And that was his career. But, but!--And mind you he never went to college just so you know. 00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:24.900 [JJ]: Oh, how come? 00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:59.100 [HR]: He never went to college. So he became an apprentice and recruited by J. D. Tata himself! as an apprentice into Air India in those days. So he was a very young person, maybe 17 or 18, when he was recruited and he became a mechanic and he started that way. But he is a very, very voracious reader, and very very well-read in mathematics and physics... 00:32:59.100 --> 00:33:27.400 But he’s very famous--thing is, he was a glider pilot. So for a hobby he was used to, he used to fly gliders and he has won many cross-country awards and I have a picture of him when he won an award and Mr. Nehru gave him the shield. So he is an award-winning, I would say, glider pilot. He's also alive. 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:29.200 [JJ]: What’s his name again? 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:43.000 [HR]: AK Sunderarajan. s u n d e r a j a n. As we speak, both of them in--I can show you them, right now. [JJ]: Wow. Yeah. We’ll take pictures of all of them. 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:50.200 [HR]: I can show you live! I have the CCTV right. They are in Chennai right now. But both of them are old and-- 00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:53.500 [JJ]: I see. Did you also have any siblings growing up? 00:33:53.500 --> 00:34:22.000 [HR]: I have one brother. He's younger to me and his name is A. K. Srinivasan. And he grew up with me in Delhi and he was born in Chennai, of course, then we were in Delhi. He went to Saint Xavier's College--Saint Xavier school first. Then he went to a Madrassi school, which as we call as “Madrassi.” DTEA, or something. Then he went to Hindu college and then to IIM-Ahmedabad. 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:48.200 So he passed out of IIM-Ahmedabad, and then after a couple of other things, he went to Singapore. He was the CEO of Sun Microsystems for several years before he took a retirement. When he was just 55 years old. And decided he would come to Chennai to take care of my parents. 00:34:48.200 --> 00:35:06.000 Then he did something on his own and now he has his own concern, which doesn't do too much, but--He's also someone who lives in Singapore and comes back and forth, and, yeah! 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:11.100 [JJ]: Okay. So when did you come to U.S. and what exactly brought you here? 00:35:11.100 --> 00:35:43.900 [HR]: So as I was explaining to you, my discontentment in the way artists are handled, my discontentment in the case of how there was so much bureaucracy, and you know, if you wanted to get something done, you have to sit there for hours and meet somebody, if you have to know somebody in order to get a performance, and in order to be written up in the newspaper you really have to be in good books with the critics. This just bothered me so much that I just didn't want to dance at all. 00:35:43.900 --> 00:36:12.900 This happened in about ‘72, ‘71 somewhere there. And so that is what brought me to America, because my husband had a green card and he said, “Let's just take a change of, you know, place, maybe that will help you.” So that's why I came here. I wanted to leave dance completely. I said, if dance is something--because it's such a Divine purusit. 00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:43.200 Remember what I told you about my upbringing. I was not exposed to the outside world. And so I was thinking, “Okay if I'm a good artist, if you're a good writer, then you're going to be, you don't have to promote yourself.” So that's how I was, so then I thought that it was wrong to be doing that. Because of all the philosophical, mythological narratives that has gone into my system. Maybe that or maybe this is how I was made up. 00:36:43.200 --> 00:37:16.400 So I came to this country. But then situations, like I was telling you, that it so happened I didn't like the way we have to melt into the melting pot. And so some few Indians asked me to give a performance and I did, and they asked me to teach and I thought maybe this is one way of bringing some good awareness of our culture. And I have to tell you at this point that I didn't like what I saw in America as well. 00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:45.200 I wasn't happy at all here. Because I felt it was just too much of falseness around me which I thought--I was ideal, idealistic as I told you. Like I didn't like the fact that on TV that I saw there was Pepsi ad trying to say that Coke was bad, which bothered me a lot. I thought, “How could they do this directly in front of everybody, in front of so many people?” 00:37:45.200 --> 00:38:14.500 But I did not realize that this is what PR-ing is. I thought what--I grew up--not grew up--I think in my mind I still don't like it. I cannot PR myself, you know. It's not possible. I just cannot promote myself. I feel like everyone should say, “Okay, this fruit is good so let's buy it,” rather than somebody pushing it to me. 00:38:14.500 --> 00:38:23.200 But I know that I'm not in this, in this world at all. This is the way it is, so. That’s a different scenario. 00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:26.300 [JJ]: And that year was 1974? 00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:31.700 [HR]: 1974 my husband came and I think it was ’75, early ’75 that I came. 00:38:31.700 --> 00:38:39.700 [JJ]: I see. So, were there any expectations as far as what you thought was the United States would be, or Chicago would be? 00:38:39.700 --> 00:38:59.600 [HR]: No! Actually I had no idea. You see, I was--no idea of what. In those days, you know, there are no videos, or you know, you’re not--you really didn't, and I didn't have much time to look around. I had heard about somethings, but I was so, so scared. I was absolutely a scared person that came into this country. 00:38:59.600 --> 00:39:00.200 [JJ]: Very young. 00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:03.800 [HR]: Very young. And I had left my daughter there. 00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:04.600 [JJ]: Oh, I see. 00:39:04.600 --> 00:39:17.900 [HR]: Yeah, I came alone. My daughter was two years old when I left her and I came here. So it was really very, very disturbing. And-- 00:39:17.900 --> 00:39:21.800 [JJ]: What were some of the challenges that your faced immediately after coming here? 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:53.100 [HR]: I think the biggest challenge was food. The biggest challenge was food. Getting food, you know, like the proper dals were not--we had to go somewhere very far to some--and Mrs. Rajan was the one who took us to somewhere downtown in a Chinese store where we bought some dals. And they always had only more potatoes and mixed vegetables and beans and there was no Indian vegetables around. 00:39:53.100 --> 00:40:20.900 You know, that kind of thing wasn’t--and I could never eat pizza in those days. So food was one big item that was a problem. Of course the main issue was our own Indians behaving the way they were, that I thought, “I should just leave this country. I can't live this anywhere, anymore. And it was just too disturbing for me. 00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:51.900 And missing everybody! Missing my daughter, missing my parentsand missing the liveliness, you know. And now I've got used to the silence but in those days the silence used to just bite me, used to be so bad. And then the severe winters that we used to have. Nowadays, the winters have become so mild but I remember, I used to, I remember standing in the cold for the bus to come to take me to Loyola where I used to work. 00:40:51.900 --> 00:41:23.300 So all that was very, very--And then of course the thought of--I shouldn't say that, and this could be out there--that I was very scared of people who don't look like us, you know? And the mafia I heard about Chicago and I would never open the door without making sure that there is somebody, you know, that I know that I answered that I was very scared, scared. 00:41:23.300 --> 00:41:50.500 And even, even then I worked in Loyola hospital, there were Indian doctors there that worked. But there were other people that, you know, I thought, I always thought that we were very, very marginalized. I've always felt that we are second-rate citizens. Never felt happy about this and I felt discrimination even then. 00:41:50.500 --> 00:42:22.100 And then, of course, later on, when my daughter was here and we were growing up and living in Lombard, so many times, we were victimized, you know, called the Hindu dog and you know. My daughter had a very hard time in, in school, elementary school, where you know, she was, she would never come and tell us at home, because she was scared, that she was bullied in the-- 00:42:22.100 --> 00:42:56.700 And I used to make sure that she puts a bindi and doesn't cut her hair and she had like two braids and go--But I didn't realize how badly she was treated, just because of the way she looked and the, all that was a hard time. Then we moved here to Oakbrook in 1988 and she went to high school and then things changed. But, you know, it takes a while for people to--I'm not saying that--It’s still, there’s a lot of stigma attached to who we are 00:42:56.700 --> 00:43:06.800 [JJ]: Right. That takes me to my next question. How would you describe your first job in the US, and experience working there? 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:37.000 [HR]: So when I say my job, my six-month job as a dietitian, I was very scared as I said. You know, people see, first of all, my accent, my accent was, my accent was always English like this. I couldn’t--Now, but I think I changed a few words but I still say “dance” as “dance” (using low “a” as in “spa”). I said, still say certain things but maybe it has changed a little bit now, but-- 00:43:37.000 --> 00:44:07.200 There is a different accent and that varies too. But I always thought that they looked at me differently. And I thought that they were not very friendly. I thought. I could be totally wrong. But my first--when I started teaching it was a totally different scenario. Because people respected me. Indians respected me. And then when I started performing at a later stage, 00:44:07.200 --> 00:44:34.500 in various scenarios where I took an effort, between, I would say, 1975 to 1980, I took the effort of performing in some others, other than Indian. So it gave me a lot of gratification and, and people respected and they came forward so that gave me a lot of courage to move forward. That’s one. 00:44:34.500 --> 00:45:03.000 And then, from 1980 onwards I have had, you know, been a soloist and performing all over United States and Canada and Europe and--So six months in the year, my musicians will come from India, and we toured. So my work is such, you know, I would say that it has been gratifying and satisfying, and so I've been lucky. 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:32.700 I would say that being presented in mainstream situations like the Kennedy Center, the Lincoln Center or the Museum of the Art Institute for example in Chicago. And so I think from that point of view my dance took over and then I had a school and recognition came because of the National Endowment for the Arts. 00:45:32.700 --> 00:45:59.000 I am, I am the first or the only, only person who has received the NEA Fellowship for 7 years consecutively. It’s a choreography award. So that I got 7 times. The only person that has got it so far. So after that it was abolished though, and then they gave in a different category. So I was nationally-recognized. I got an Emmy Award. 00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:18.400 So when I think, when you're getting all those recognition for you artistic excellence, that gives you a status. And then I was never for, you know, as I said, I don't like marketing and things like that. If things come on their own, they come. I don't go and promote myself. 00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:22.800 [JJ]: I see. So first of all, did you get Emmy award, you said?! 00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:23.200 [HR]: Yes. 00:46:23.200 --> 00:46:26.400 [JJ]: That is fantastic! So what was the award for? 00:46:25.900 --> 00:46:41.600 [HR]: That was called the “World Stage Chicago.” It was in 1994, I think? It was Channel 11. PBS, it’s a PBS production. 00:46:41.600 --> 00:46:50.800 [JJ]: I see. So just for our listeners, tell bit about, just a brief introduction about Bharatanatyam and also about your dance studio that you have now 00:46:50.800 --> 00:47:21.000 [HR]: Bharatanatyam is one of the classical dance styles of India. So when I say classical, I mean that which has been developed a lot, in the sense that it's a fine art. Of course, all our folk arts are also equally important but they don't have a particular regimen or a parameter to follow, and it's not finely developed and you don't have to persevere so much, you know, so that's the difference between the classical and the folk. 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:54.600 And Bharatanatyam, as other classical dance styles, is based on the 3,000--or 2000, they say now--year old treatise called the Natya Shastra. And the Natya Shastra itself was written, two, are written in the sense it’s a treatise, you know, there are rules and regulations. It was meant to steer the people, like, to become more aware of what is right and wrong, because the masses were not able to read, the Vedas. 0:47:54.600 --> 00:48:24.600 So when you’re not able to read--Mm who wants to read the whole thing? Can you you show me a nutshell what it is? And that is why Natya Shatra was written so that, according to history, okay? So when that started--and then the Sage Bharata was the one who wrote. Brahma actually gave the responsibility to Sage Bharata and said, “Create something which,” you know, “the four Vedas are not being read, can you do something?” So then he said, “Okay, let me think about it.” 00:48:24.600 --> 00:48:52.400 And then he created the fifth Veda called the Natya Veda. And then he wrote the treatise. Brahma created the Natya Veda, gave it to Bharata who wrote the treatise, who wrote all these new rules and regulations on which all our arts based. Whether it be painting or whether it be folk dance or any beautiful, everything is based on Natya Shastra. Our music, everything is that. 00:48:52.400 --> 00:49:15.400 Everything is supposed to be those parameters. If you use them and produce any work, it is supposed to--So the goal is to make the person better. So that's why even in Hindi Cinemas or any other Regional Cinemas, the hero never dies, you know, the--right? Even that is based on the Natya Shastra. So good always wins! it’s always that 00:49:14.300 --> 00:49:17.600 [JJ]: Oh! They got the plot lines from the--**laughs** 00:49:16.900 --> 00:49:47.000 [HR]: Yeah. That’s exactly--it’s still that. So from that point of view, Bharatanatyam is one of the--So all our productions all my productions, all my performances are always geared to making the audience understand. For example, one simple thing like Krishna stealing butter. It’s a mythological story, but it’s not just that. Why does Krishna need to steal the butter? What does he need to steal the butter? 00:49:47.000 --> 00:50:10.900 So then I will give the philosophical meaning so that the people understand. Butter is a substance that melts very easily. So Krishna will steal that butter, if your heart is like that butter towards everyone. If it is melting easily, you feel, you are, you know, engaged with everybody, you connect with everybody. And that’s the most important aspect. 00:50:10.900 --> 00:50:14.700 [JJ]: It’s like a physical form of communication, education. 00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:44.000 [HR]: Exactly...education. So more, as through dance, our--So when I started teaching these youngsters who--even now, I have that problem. They don't have this background, they don't have a mythological background, they don't have an understanding. Sometimes they come from--one parent is Indian the other parent is not. There's no awareness of a lot. So I have to teach a lot of mythology. I have to teach a lot of culture. So that’s how things started. 00:50:44.000 --> 00:51:14.300 And when I started performing all over United States, I used to get students from all over as well. So slowly my school became well-known, became bigger. Then in 1995 we became a dance company. Well by that, we became a 501 c 3 not-for-profit organization. We could get funded and we could produce shows. 00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:27.200 And we could actually find our dancers that I've been training for so many years to be performing, you know? Otherwise it's a waste and what are they doing? So then we started performing and my company tours. 00:51:27.200 --> 00:51:28.200 [JJ]: What’s the name of the company? 00:51:28.200 --> 00:52:01.600 [HR]: Natya Dance Theater. So Natya Dance Theater is the one that has a dance company. Then it has a school, so then we also teach in a community scenarios like the Chicago Public Schools and other communities and we also are presenters. So we present Indian performances, from India that comes. So slowly, the dance company has become a big entity in Chicago, I would say. 00:52:01.600 --> 00:52:32.800 And we have several studios and every year we present and we collaborate with very leading, like the Chicago Symphony Orchestra or Yo Yo Ma the cellist. So we have been into that kind of a collaborative performances. And I just performed with Asta Debu--I don’t think you know him, he’s India’s foremost contemporary artist--last year. 00:52:32.800 --> 00:53:03.600 So leading genres of arts also. Collaboration is another thing I do. It’s not just Bharatanatyam. What I do is Bharatanatyam but it has a contemporary sensibility when I perform it. So my choreography or movement, vocabulary expands a lot when we collaborate, let’s say, with the contemporary artist like Asta Debu, or Music, saxophone, jazz. 00:53:03.600 --> 00:53:16.900 George Brooks from California. The only thing I've not done is hip-hop. Oh well I have had some kind of an interaction with hip-hop, but... 00:53:16.900 --> 00:53:18.500 [JJ]: So you still perform? 00:53:18.500 --> 00:53:29.700 [HR]: I don't still--I don’t perform in--I still perform though. I mean I do expression, and whatever I can do. I do that. Yes, I did perform last November. 00:53:29.700 --> 00:53:35.600 [JJ]: Wow, so how many decades of experience is that? 00:53:35.600 --> 00:53:43.000 [HR]: Yeah! I’m going to be 70 so I've been performing since 1956. That’s a long time. 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:57.200 [JJ]: Yeah. That's wonderful. When you did start your company, were there other, other people representing the same classical Indian dance around you? or were you the premier? 00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:31.200 [HR]: No. There was, I was, I am considered to be the pioneer! of Indian Bharatanatyam. There used to be in New York, there was Padmini, the actress. She was already there when I came, so she was one but she's no more. But since then, when I came here to Chicago, there was nobody. There was no dance, there was nothing. No Temple. So the temple actually started in our home. I don't know whether you know whether you know that. 00:54:31.200 --> 00:54:33.300 [JJ]: No, no! Oh wow, please tell me that story! 00:54:33.300 --> 00:54:33.700 [HR]: Okay 00:54:33.700 --> 00:54:34.700 [JJ]: The Hindu temple? 00:54:34.700 --> 00:54:35.500 [HR]: Hindu temple 00:54:35.500 --> 00:54:36.300 [JJ]: Oh okay, please go ahead 00:54:36.300 --> 00:55:10.200 [HR]: Right. So the Hindu temple started in our house. So actually we had parties from both the people. So, how all happened. Lombard, we were in Lombard. And I used to be, used to be in class and the parents all sat around and talked, so I think that got them started to think, you know, Hema talks so much about mythology and now our children are learning, we should have a, you know, regular conversation. 0:55:10.200 --> 00:55:33.900 My husband was very much involved in it and so there started the whole idea. And the idol Rama was voted in my house. So they voted for Rama because they thought all North Indians, everybody's Ishta Devata (desired God) could be Rama and that's how that came into place. 00:55:33.900 --> 00:55:47.800 And then of course that organization split into two and then you know that we had the Balaji Temple and all that. But we were very much involved in the Rama temple. Because my husband was the treasurer for the Rama. 00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:50.400 [JJ]: For the two temples, so one Balaji temple and second one is the? 00:55:50.400 --> 00:56:19.000 [HR]: Rama temple. The Lemont. So but the Lemont temple was the one where my husband was the treasurer and and Dr. Vidyasagar, who's also my student’s father, was the President. Chairman or whatever you call it. So then it so happened that my husband organized a fundraiser kind of a thing. And we used to do a lot of fundraising because it’s Rama temple, so we did Ramayana. 00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:21.500 [JJ]: Oh!...Perfect 00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:50.900 [HR]: You know? So, raised funds a lot. Then once, one day, what he did was, he had a kind of a--it was not a fundraising event. It was an event where a person Sri Swami Subramanian from Hawaii, I don't know whether you're aware of this temple in Kauai. So Shivani Subramanian Swamy. He’s an American, actually. He came to Chicago. 00:56:50.900 --> 00:57:20.900 And--to address this organization. So my students danced. And then when he came on the stage, I was told--if you see him he’s like a American, but a sadhu, bilkul (sadhu = a saint, bilkul = absolutely). He came and he addressed and when he started talking, I was totally floored. Because he said he himself was a Bharatanatyam dancer. He learned Bharatanatyam. But then, of course, he gave up everything and he went to Ceylon and meditated. 00:57:20.900 --> 00:57:34.500 And finally, he’s into--and beautiful temple in Kauai. And so what he did was, he went back next week, he sent us a Ganesha statue. 00:57:34.500 --> 00:57:36.700 [JJ]: I see. From Hawaii **chuckles** 00:57:36.700 --> 00:58:06.300 [HR]: From Hawaii! He said, “Start with something, because you don't have an idol. Nobody has an idea. You know, you won't create funds if you don't have an idol.” So the idol arrived in O'Hare Airport. And we had an old, beaten up Buick. You know, those huge ones? We had that car. And my husband asked people. 00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:22.000 Said, “where do we put this?” Nobody wanted to keep in their house and we didn't have an idea how big it was. No idea! So he went to the airport to collect the package and I believe his car sank. 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.500 [JJ]: Oh it was that big? [HR]: It was so heavy! [JJ]: Oh my God. 00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:55.000 [HR]: And somehow he put things and all that, that he brought it, he brought the idol to our house, to my house. I’m forgetting the name--Joy Street 430, N. Joy Street. And that idol was a Ganesha Idol so they all got together and they felt we should just keep it in our house. So the Hindu temple started in our house. So there used to be Poojas. 00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:59.500 And there’s still Ganesha. So if you've gone to the Hindu temple, have you gone to the Hindu temple? 00:58:59.500 --> 00:59:01.900 [JJ]: I have, once, yeah. 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:05.900 [HR]: So right next to the Shiva, that Idol was in our house 00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:09.800 [JJ]: Oh, I see, and you just transported it from your house to the temple, then 00:59:09.800 --> 00:59:11.200 [HR]: Well, later, much later 00:59:11.200 --> 00:59:21.900 [JJ]: I see. Wow....That must be a very unique sort of feeling when you go visit the temple. You’re like, “Oh! Hi, now!” You relate to it 00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:48.700 Yes. I say, “Oh!” Believe it or not, the name of the Ganesha is Varasiddhi Vinayaka. It’s right next to--it’s at the Shiva temple, right next to the Durga. So I used to do, they told me to do the Pooja every day! So they have given me somethings, that I put it on the tape and do some you know Naivaidyam (food offering to God), food every day for the Ganesha. And I used to do that every day. 00:59:48.700 --> 01:00:16.400 Right? And then one day I was on tour. I was not at home. When I came--so naturally in our garage, it was a raised ranch, when you come in, there's a huge hall. So first thing as you come into the hall, you see a huge Ganesha, that’s how I was. I mean that’s how in our house it was. He was there! So I come in, I don't see the Ganesha. And got I panicked, I said, “What happened?” 01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:31.400 So then my husband said, “No we have moved him to a different place now. It is a, you know, public place.” And believe it or not, I cried so much that day. Because it was almost like, you know, he became like part of-- 01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:33.100 [JJ]: A family member...almost 01:00:32.100 --> 01:00:59.800 [HR]: Yes! Because without feeding him, I don’t ever eat anything. All that was done. And all these--every Sunday our house was like a temple, like people came to our house, did the Pooja, did the Abhisekham (bathing of the idol ritual), and all that was going on while I was in dance class. So I had a withdrawal kind of with it--I felt very bad. But then, yes. I do feel it, whenever I go there I feel like...yes. 01:00:58.300 --> 01:01:12.700 [JJ]: I see...Well this sort of made like a community, that’s why the next question is like--Would you say making friends in the US was difficult for you or not? I know in the initial days you were talking about it was a little 01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:15.000 [HR]: No, no, no! with the Indians? with Indians? 01:01:14.100 --> 01:01:17.000 [JJ]: Mhmm, or just in general, friends in the US 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:32.200 [HR]: You're talking to the wrong person because I don't have many friends, even now. I mean, I know a horde of people, but not somebody that close to me. I never had that problem. You know why? Because so many people came to my house. 01:01:32.200 --> 01:01:34.100 [JJ]: Right and you were busy all the time 01:01:33.600 --> 01:01:55.900 [HR]: See, I’m all the time busy, even then. So even the beginning, you know, even in the earlier stages, people came to my house to--and naturally, we talk and, you know, we... hobnob, we eat dinner, lunch together. That happened a lot in the initial stages, yes. Yes so, I didn’t, we didn't have any problem making friends. 01:01:55.900 --> 01:02:02.400 [JJ]: So once you did come here, even when you started getting busy, did you feel homesick, for India? 01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:26.200 [HR]: Oh! Homesick, I was always feeling homesick. So even today I feel homesick. I feel homesick and you would not believe how happy I am when I go to Chennai. That's a different thing altogether for me. I mean I'm a different person. I don’t--not that I don't appreciate the quietness and I don't appreciate-- 01:02:26.200 --> 01:02:52.500 But the liveliness that's there when you get in, and so many scooterwallahs and autos going, and that...you know, all that. I like it! I can't tell you why I don't like it, but--I like the food, I like the people. I like the, my own families, you know. Anybody that can just come in, walk-in, walk-out, you know. Jing bang happening. 01:02:52.100 --> 01:02:53.200 [JJ]: It’s an open door policy. 01:02:53.200 --> 01:03:12.700 [HR]: Open door policy. Even today, I feel I've done many many works, many performances, I have produced, where I feel, that I have said I am like Ahilya (a doomed figure in Hindu scripture, liberated by Rama). You know? That has become a stone. Like you know? You’re caged. You’re in a gilded cage. Yes. 01:03:12.700 --> 01:03:18.300 [JJ]: I see. So how did you keep in touch with friends and family back home when you came here? 01:03:17.700 --> 01:03:32.800 [HR]: I go every year. I go at least two times a year. So, but of course, my work also takes me there, and we perform a lot there. And then...yeah! And my parents used to always come. Even last year they were here. 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:34.400 [JJ]: They visited, they visit you? 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:41.800 [HR]: They were here. We celebrated my husband's 80th birthday last year at the Hindu Temple, yeah. 01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:45.300 [JJ]: Here? Oh, wow! That must been something for them. 01:03:43.200 --> 01:03:45.800 [HR]: And my parents were here. Yes. 01:03:46.100 --> 01:03:56.200 [JJ]: I see. I was wondering do you also, do you get Bharatanatyam dancers here? Do you, have you given them opportunity? 01:03:55.000 --> 01:04:24.400 [HR]: From India? From India? Every year. Every year, we present BharataNatyam dancers, so we bring them here. And I also just now finished up two weeks’ festival called Parampara, the tradition. So what I did was I presented six total gurus, teachers, acharyas who’ve been here for beyond 35 years. See I'm here for almost 45 years, or more. 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:46.000 But some are here for 35 years, so minimum 35 years. So I got a bunch of people that were here from California, from Canada, from Houston. So six of them were there. So we did a virtual festival and they presented their students. So yeah! 01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:47.500 [JJ]: And even dancers from India? 01:04:47.500 --> 01:05:10.700 [HR]: From India they were not. This was only a US company. But from India we present every year. Every year they come. And actually on May 9th this year there was one company, Vaibhav Arekar from Mumbai. He was supposed to come but couldn't come because of Covid. Yeah, every year we present performances from India. 01:05:10.700 --> 01:05:16.700 [JJ]: Because I’m asssuming, like, you are their link to the West, sort of, given everything 01:05:14.900 --> 01:05:43.400 [HR]: Yes, yes. Exactly, exactly. Because not only that, we have produced two conferences. We are the first in the United States to present one in 2001. Then we did another one in 2006, where we presented a three-day conference and Festival where there were dancers from India. So we presented Malavika Sarukkai in Bharatanatyam, Priyadarshini Govind in Bharatanatyam. 01:05:43.400 --> 01:06:06.800 Then the contemporary artist Kumudini Lakhia Kathak. And then we presented--these are all evening performances. We also presented a 20-member troupe of folk artists from Chennai. So they were performing here, we presented them. 01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:24.800 And we presented the contemporary Chandraleka, who is a world famous contemporary artist in Bharatanatyam, with Guddecha Brothers who sang Drupad. So we present quite a lot of performances, mainstream. 01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:49.100 [JJ]: This is out of, mainly, a personal curiosity of me. I was wondering if, just through the dance because to an outsider’s eye, dance is just a physical manifestation. But only a dancer knows the history behind it, the background behind it. So I know you started at such a young age, so maybe not then. 01:06:49.100 --> 01:07:07.300 As you grew older, and you still pursued your dance, did that make you a little more aware, and conscious about just the historical aspect of it, the social aspect of it, in a sense? I remember you said your first teacher was a Devdasi. So did that shed light on, on-- 01:07:07.300 --> 01:07:07.700 [HR]: Life! 01:07:07.700 --> 01:07:12.000 [JJ]: --where it comes from in life and people who practice this dance and created this? 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:17.500 [HR]: Absolutely, so if you go--See that is the child’s, I mean the student’s interest. 01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:17.900 [JJ]: Right 01:07:17.900 --> 01:07:48.600 [HR]: Yeah, and when I teach, I teach all these things also to the students. So there's a historical background. They study history. They also study the theoretical aspect of it. And also in practicality, when you start practicing it. I think any kind of dance or art, any dance--I just did a video clip yesterday for someone for the Indian Raga. I think they wanted something where they wanted to know why I dance. 01:07:48.600 --> 01:08:17.100 So there are a lot of artists talking about why I dance. I think, I said, “why I dance, I dance because it consumes me.” I'm sure it does you, too. You know, when you dance, it totally consumes you. You don't become you, you cease to be you. And then you start connecting with people. In our dance, I can become a bird when I fly. I can smell the flowers, right? 01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:39.000 I can do anything that I want to, and lose myself. When I do that, it's a very transcendental, meditational process. So you lose yourself, whenever you lose--that’s why we are all high when we perform, no? I'm sure you would agree with me. 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:41.900 [JJ]: Right, absolutely. Yeah. [HR]: You know when you get into that? That’s why you perform! 01:08:41.900 --> 01:08:47.600 [JJ]: And that’s why even after the performance, for hours it will stay with you! [HR]: Yeah. Even after the perfor--yes! It stays for a long time. 01:08:47.300 --> 01:08:48.000 [JJ]: Right 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:56.800 [HR]: So, but then those aspects are not really known to the young students. They only come to know it once they start performing. 01:08:56.800 --> 01:09:00.000 [JJ]: Right. You have to be immersed in the experience. 01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:16.200 [HR]: You have to be immersed in the experience. You have to under--That's why it takes a long time for us to explain to people: Why do you learn dance? Why do you send your child to dance? Why do you send your child to learn Bharatanatyam? or any dance, any art form for that matter. It takes a while. 01:09:16.200 --> 01:09:42.400 [JJ]: Right. Well, just coming from India myself, Bharatanatyam and the classical dances, they are still so much, like--They are mainstream, but in a way, in the land of, like, where everything is Bollywood. And they're not. So, like our experience would be our exposure, was like we saw Hema Malini (south Indian Bollywood actress known for her Bharatanatyam) dance, perform. So that's all we knew growing up, 01:09:39.700 --> 01:09:46.700 [HR]: Correct, correct. That’s all you knew. That's true! It’s not in the masses, it’s not in the mainstream. 01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:49.200 [JJ]: Especially here now. I was just wondering the contrast 01:09:47.500 --> 01:10:14.600 [HR]: Yes. So Bollywood is so much more popular than this, you see? That’s for that. That is why there's a difference, difference between--Like, for example, the people who go and listen to Western music at the Symphony Center, are different--or the Opera--are different from--So I think, I do a lot for getting Bharatanatyam to the masses. 01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:37.700 And nowadays yes, there are lots of--even in India--there are so many avenues, where they are starting to realize that we need to take Bharatanatyam to the masses. It should be where, it should be like accessible by the masses. There's no point in sitting on a high horse somewhere there. It’s only catering to some people, you see? 01:10:37.700 --> 01:10:48.700 [JJ]: So that’s very interesting that you say that, because-- So, basically what I was getting at, without saying in so much words, is that--So it's not the elitism from the arts side. 01:10:48.700 --> 01:10:49.600 [HR]: No, no, no 01:10:49.300 --> 01:10:52.100 [JJ]: It’s just the, the connection. It’s just getting there. 01:10:52.100 --> 01:11:10.700 [HR]: It’s just, I have to tell you this: even when I first danced, because of this person Dr. Rajan, that he organized a performance, my husband came home and said, “You know, you did that long piece. I'm, even I didn't understand what you did. How can the people understand?” 01:11:10.700 --> 01:11:11.500 [JJ]: It’s like poetry. 01:11:11.500 --> 01:11:41.800 [HR]: Yeah! (inaudible) So then I changed. You know they’re so adhered. I do the performance so that you can understand. If I'm talking about Krishna’s stealing the Gopis’ (milkmaids) clothes while they are bathing in the river, I should be able to tell you why he's doing that. And then you will enjoy it better. If I'm talking about the Ramayana you know that--For a long time I didn't realize that picture was Ravana carrying away Sita. 01:11:41.800 --> 01:12:10.900 It’s an Indonesian Kalaga. You know, I bought it but I never realized what it is. For a long time I couldn't figure out. Then I figured out. It is Ravana carrying away Sita. Okay, if that is the case, you know, what is Rama--how does Ramayana fit into this picture? How do you relate to Ramayana? How do you relate to Lakshmana, Laksman Rekha (a safe boundary drawn by Lakshman within which Sita is protected). Lakshman drew a rekha around Sita’s hut. And said, “Don’t”--what does that mean actually? 01:12:10.900 --> 01:12:29.800 It’s a Lakshmna Rekha for all of us, you know? It's like a boundary that we say we don't go beyond that. There we lose our Maryada, you know, our code, our conduct is what we are going to lose if we cross that boundary. That's what it is actually, so-- 01:12:29.700 --> 01:12:30.900 [JJ]: Like they say, “crossing the line.” 01:12:30.900 --> 01:13:01.000 [HR]: Exactly! Exactly. So, there are umpteen imageries in all our myth--It’s full of values. So what I do is I bring to the audience, my aim in teaching the students is the value of those values. Your values are there, you don’t tell the truth. I mean you make sure you tell truth. Don't tell a lie. But why?...(crosstalk) If a child is asking you, you know, 01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:31.900 “Why should I tell the truth, always?” Then you should be able to tell them why. What will happen if you tell a lie. Unless you explain that, then accessibility is not there, and so every time our Bharatanatyam, our dancers dance, we make sure that we get them program notes, or there is always the voice overs going through with it. So all diverse audiences can understand it. 01:13:31.900 --> 01:14:02.500 See we did this production last year called Inai. “Inai” means to connect. We did this with Astad Deboo and we had George Brooks from California doing the saxophone, and we had Indian musicians. And famous musicians, a vocalist, were singing. And we picked pieces which showed the connection of religions. You know, we had, why--what happens when you have estranged parties? 01:14:02.500 --> 01:14:30.200 You know, what's happening today, who's lying? You know? It’s the Democrats are lying or the Republicans are lying. What's happening here, when I’m hearing all these debates going on, right? So, what is happening? So what would happen when you are transparent to all this? Are you increasing your awareness? So my, our productions, Natya’s productions are always geared towards increasing that awareness. 01:14:30.200 --> 01:14:59.000 Whether it's called Ahimsa, non-violence, where we show, you know, victimization of a woman, or victimized child abuse, or, you know, marginalized person's abuse. So once that is there, diverse audiences can definitely understand it. And of course, what is the element which people like? So I always say, that the audiences are divided into three categories. 01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:33.000 One is, you know, they are very high, Satvik. They, they want to be enlightened. Then there are, middle category, they are Rajisik. They want to be educated. Then there's a third category which is Tamasik, which is they want to be entertained. Okay? So in a performance you must have all these ingredients. If you're only enlightening, they're going to say, “Let me go to Bollywood.” But if you bring the Bollywood element into your performances-- 01:15:33.000 --> 01:16:02.400 And what is the Bollywood element? Is it just the entertainment, but, and you have to know what the Bollywood-- See Bollywood was Bollywood even 50 years ago. So when you look at the Bollywood 50 years ago, it’s different from the Bollywood of today. So as an artist you have to be very aware of the changing environment. You have to be sensitive to what's happening around you. When I say that--since you’re a hip-hop artist-- 01:16:02.400 --> 01:16:29.600 When say that I know about hip hop, of course I’ve watched hip-hop and been entertained, amazed by hip hop artists. Yes, amazing! So I think you have, as an artist, I look at various things that I absorb and that influences me. Don't think that hip hop hasn't influenced me in my choreography. It has. 01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:38.200 [JJ]: Interesting. I see. So what do you think are some of the contrasts between India and US, the way you see it 01:16:38.200 --> 01:16:43.700 [HR]: ...Contr--in what though? In...culture? 01:16:43.100 --> 01:16:53.300 [JJ]: Just the lifestyle, the culture, or what’s missing in one and is plenty in the other? Just your impression 01:16:53.300 --> 01:17:25.400 [HR]: Today's scenario is much different from how it was before. If I went back to India in the 80s, let’s say, or even the 70s or 80s, even early 90s, I was really frustrated. Why was I frustrated? Because one can’t get your things done when the phones don't work. Which is true! Phones never worked, and you know. Things don't work, it takes an arm and a leg to get anything done. 01:17:25.400 --> 01:17:53.100 So that used to definitely frustrate me. And people are not honest, they want to be bribed, which is still there. That scenario, I still don't like. So the bureaucracy and the corruptness that's going on in all levels. And for us artists, yes! You can’t get to perform in the Indian scenarios, if you are not bribing somebody or if you're not getting into-- 01:17:53.100 --> 01:18:23.600 So by legitimately, if you're fantastic and you're really phenomenal in your dance you may get. But if you’re just okay and you’re dancing good, you won’t get anywhere. So that point of view, I don't like it. Whereas here, that scenario does not exist, if you are artistically excellent. But then I also have another issue here. Funding agency sometimes take Donnelley, for example. 01:18:23.600 --> 01:18:53.200 It funds us too. It funds everybody!...How are you making a judgement call here? If you’re funding an apple for its juiciness or whatever. Then you’re funding some other vegetable which doesn't even--you know? So I have a problem there. But there are very--But then, maybe they get funded because of various things or whatever. 01:18:53.200 --> 01:19:23.000 But that scenario doesn't exist that you have to really go--But you know, like for example, to be presented at the Kennedy Center, or to be presented at the Lincoln Center or in the Kentucky Center Performing Arts, for example, one needs to have that artistic excellence. So that, yes, you know? We’ve been, we have performed at the Ravinia Festival, which you know, ordinary people can’t just go and perform there.... 01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:35.400 Because there are so many Indian Bharatanatyam teachers. Do they get presented at the Ravinia? No. They may get funded by Donnelly but-- 01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:35.600 [JJ]: Exclusionary, yeah 01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:43.400 [HR]: Yeah. So I feel like, you know, that is there. When you see that excellence that is there. 01:19:43.400 --> 01:20:03.800 [JJ]: Right. So I guess another way of asking this question about contrast is, you already rightly pointed out how India has so much to learn from the U--some things that happen in the US, rightly so. Is there something that the US could use more of, that is already in India? 01:20:03.800 --> 01:20:32.800 [HR]: Our knowledge! You know, our great knowledge, our great values that we have. I produced a show for Indo-American Center called “Bharathi, My Mother.” We did a fundraiser for them, which was presented at the Hindu temple. So there I had shown we were the first to discover zero. 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:40.400 We were the first to discover plastic surgery. We were the first--it wasn’t Newton who discovered gravity 01:20:40.400 --> 01:20:41.000 [JJ]: Oh 01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:41.900 [HR]: Yeah! 01:20:41.900 --> 01:20:42.850 [JJ]: I didn’t even know that! 01:20:42.850 --> 01:21:12.800 [HR]: You didn’t know that! And we were the first to discover the aeroplane. Not the Wright Brothers, because it--Why? Because you know I found in the Ramayana, Ravana comes in the Pushpaka Vimanam, which flies. So I'm sure, you know, I just kind of stretched it a little bit. But I think, yeah, we have a lot of wisdom in our philosophy. And spirituality is something that the West cannot think about. I don't think. 01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:17.800 [JJ]: Right. Even a lot of spritual traditions are Eastern-inspired 01:21:17.500 --> 01:21:30.800 [HR]: Absolutely, yeah absolutely. There’s no way we can compete. Our Yoga, you know, it comes from there? Yes. So I’m very proud of--I’m a very proud Indian, I would say. 01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:42.100 [JJ]: I see. So, next question is, were you involved in the Indian Community here? You've already told us about the Temple, is there any community center you want to talk about? 01:21:39.500 --> 01:21:45.800 [HR]: Yes, yes. The Indo-American. I’ve been involved in the Indo-American for a long time 01:21:45.800 --> 01:21:46.900 [JJ]: The Indo-American Center? 01:21:46.900 --> 01:21:54.500 [HR]: Yes, for a very long time. No, not for the Indo--Indo-American...your, NIAM! 01:21:54.500 --> 01:21:58.900 [JJ]: I mean, it was the Indo-American Heritage Museum. Right. 01:21:57.700 --> 01:22:02.300 [HR]: Heritage Museum! Yes, since, for a very long time. 01:22:02.300 --> 01:22:07.600 [JJ]: Right, right. And from the very beginning you have been in touch? 01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:17.300 [HR]: Yeah, even the Indo-American Center. Yeah. With most of the Indian organizations, that are here. 01:22:17.300 --> 01:22:20.100 [JJ]: I see, so the Temple definitely falls into there 01:22:19.800 --> 01:22:47.400 [HR]: Of course, of course. Temple falls into that. With the Chinmaya mission, for example, yeah, since before even it started I was, I was in their first study group together. Then of course I came out of it because, the timings didn’t suit me. But involved with a lot of charitable Indian organizations all over, wherever. Yeah, absolutely. 01:22:47.400 --> 01:22:56.400 [JJ]: So, this could be a tricky question but what kind of impact do you think Indian Americans have made in Chicago or the US? 01:22:57.100 --> 01:23:16.800 [HR]: Indian Americans have contributed educationally and culturally, a whole lot! And economically! There are so many Indian Americans that are doctors, there are so many Indian Americans that are CEOs of big companies. You know all these-- 01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:18.100 [JJ]: Google and everybody 01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:39.900 [HR]: Yeah! Exactly. How much of brain they have--And if you look around, even software engineers, so many Indian Americans that contributed to that. Right? So, I would say, as educationalists, doctors, scientists. Yeah, you name it, we have it. Artists 01:23:39.900 --> 01:23:41.600 [JJ]: Well, cutural, like (inaudible) 01:23:40.900 --> 01:24:11.800 [HR]: Culturally, like, yes. So many artists have we have produced here who are equally respected in India. See, I'm also awarded in India. I've had, gotten some national awards in India. So think it's not just here, it's also that my peers, people who are concerned with art scenario do respect Natya Dance Theater’s contribution. 01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:36.700 I was recently featured on a national magazine on the front cover in India called the Sruthi magazine. So they won't do that unless, unless they see my--Because I am with the others that are, you know, up somewhere. And it is a national magazine, so. 01:24:36.700 --> 01:24:47.100 [JJ]: So you do so many things, and especially with dance and your company. What is it that you like to do in your leisure time, like when you have no responsibilities? 01:24:47.100 --> 01:25:13.000 [HR]: Ah! That’s a very, very good question and even I, I have tried to find out whether I like to do anything else, it looks like I don't. I like to do gardening a bit. Like I love to grow plants. I'm not a great cook. I don't love to cook, but I'm okay. But I think I read a lot. 01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:41.200 But I only read mostly, again connected to dance or dance-related mythology or spirituality, something like that. So I am best only with the dance. That's where I found. If I don't have anything to do, then I get very, you know, depressed. If I don't have anything to work with, or anything dance-oriented. 01:25:41.200 --> 01:26:10.100 But that's probably because I've never had the opportunity to explore other things, maybe that's why. Also, I like to travel but I haven't traveled. I used to, whenever I travel, I traveled all over Europe. I used to, I used to tell people that I was staying in a hotel in Paris, I could see the Eiffel Tower there. I could see it. 01:26:10.100 --> 01:26:36.900 Not that I could walk it, but didn't get the opportunity to go see it. You see, because then I was, again, I went to Germany or something, so. It's just one of those things that I didn't get--Now, I feel like I've lost that opportunity. For young people I always say, “Don't waste your time so much and please go and do what you want to do, because--even to be with family and friends.” 01:26:36.900 --> 01:26:54.500 Like you know, I always will go to India but my mother and father would always say, “You are never there for us. You're always in some performance or the other.” So, yeah, I haven’t. I haven't used my time well that way. That’s what I would say. 01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:16.100 [JJ]: ...So I guess the next two questions are pretty much similar. So I wanted to ask you, like, if there’s certain experience or something special that you will always remember about coming to America in those early days. What vivid memory stays with you 01:27:13.600 --> 01:27:44.100 [HR]: I--Yeah, see...My vivid memories are, you know, which I am very grateful for, is those few families that I encountered in the beginning, that made me feel that I need to be really, really educated or educate myself more about my own culture, on my own, which I knew something about, but I wasn't really--I didn't know too much about. 01:27:44.100 --> 01:28:11.700 But then I thought, “I think I need to know more about my own heritage.” So if that didn't happen to me, it wouldn’t have given me the deep impetus to go deep into this, and feel I should not melt into this melting pot. Because I want to see my vegetables and whatever it is in my, in my soup, not just melting, in a melting pot. So I really feel that that has been my most-- 01:28:11.700 --> 01:28:41.600 And I would say another big thing is, my opportunities that came to me, where I could collaborate with artists. Which, if I, I don't think, in India I wouldn’t have got those opportunities to collaborate with other genres. Whether it be famous contemporary dancer or the Chicago Symphony, or Yo-Yo Ma, or the Looking-Glass Theater, for example. You know? 01:28:41.600 --> 01:29:00.200 Would I have had the opportunity to, would we have had the opportunity to--That was actually Krithika’s collaboration with the Looking Glass Theater. Which was called SitaRam, which was a opera. I was, what do you call--a rock opera! 01:29:00.200 --> 01:29:01.600 [JJ]: Hm! Oh wow! 01:29:01.600 --> 01:29:30.400 On the Ramayana. Right, which ran for, like, thirty-two days or something and then they again put it in the Harris Theater. They used it in the Harris Theater. But that was a phenomenal experience. I wasn't involved in it, but my dancers were. Krithika choreographed it, but--See, so it expands your horizon. You know, when first she told me about it and I actually saw it at the Ravinia Festival. The first performance was at the Ravinia Festival. 01:29:30.400 --> 01:29:42.500 I was--Somebody told me, what was his name? I forgot, I forget his name. I'm not that savvy with the Saturday Night Live show, you know? What is his name? I'm forgetting his name. 01:29:42.500 --> 01:29:43.600 [JJ]: Is he an actor? 01:29:43.600 --> 01:29:47.700 [HR]: Actor, on that...Saturday Night Live 01:29:47.700 --> 01:29:49.100 [JJ]: Will Farrell? 01:29:49.100 --> 01:30:14.900 [HR]: Mmm no. A different guy. ‘Cause he's one of the Looking Glass Theater directors, you know? He was like a founding director, or whatever. I’m forgetting his name. Very famous guy. And he was there in the audience and she said “He’s there! He’s there!” I said “Who is there?” You know? ...Then somebody introduced me to him and I didn't know who he was. 01:30:14.900 --> 01:30:35.100 Then, suddenly, I heard that that Ravana is going to be an actor that's going to wear all leathers, and he's going to come on a motorbike, on the stage. And I said, “What is Krithika doing?” You know? So then when I saw the Opera, it was amazing! 01:30:35.100 --> 01:30:36.700 [JJ]: It's a modern interpretation 01:30:36.700 --> 01:30:51.900 [HR]: Yes, yes. So that's accessibility. So people got value. You know, what is love, you know Love transforms, what happens--So the audience was just amazed with that...opera. 01:30:51.900 --> 01:30:54.400 [JJ]: Right, right. It translates to every generation. 01:30:54.400 --> 01:30:55.900 [HR]: Yes! Exactly. 01:30:55.900 --> 01:30:58.500 [JJ]: Right? It’s not just back in the days or whatever 01:30:57.500 --> 01:31:00.700 [HR]: No! No, no, no. Right. So I was very proud of that. 01:31:00.700 --> 01:31:04.100 [JJ]: **chuckles** So tell us about Krithika, or if you have more children-- 01:31:03.900 --> 01:31:33.300 [HR]: Krithika--No, I have only one child. So Krithika was 7. She was born in ’72, so she came here when she was 4. And of course, grew up in this household, right? So grew up with learning dance, and you know like this. And very much involved, poor thing didn’t have a childhood at all, because it was all consumed by the Hindu temple. Because she was licking stamps and posting papers and this and that. 01:31:33.300 --> 01:32:03.800 And always her room, and they, when the Ganesha was in our house, when I came home after the dance class, she would be complaining, “Mom all my toys are being taken by somebody and it's all over the place.” And I had to clean the house, whatever. But she was surrounded by that community, and she grew up in that community, and she was very culturally aware of what she grew up in that--Although she had rebellious feelings she was growing up, “Why do I need to wear a bindi? Why do I need to do that?” 01:32:03.800 --> 01:32:12.900 But I think because of the surrounding, and as she was growing, she became a very, very--more proponent of the Indian values than me. 01:32:12.900 --> 01:32:14.800 [JJ]: Identity, her identity, yeah 01:32:14.100 --> 01:32:44.500 [HR]: Her identity. Yeah, so. Then she herself is a beautiful artist and has performed--She's a Jeff Award nominee for the Sitaram. She was nominated for the Jeff Award and she's won some other awards as well. But she's a beautiful artist, she has performed in India several times, as a soloist. And she's the one who is, who actually collaborated with Yo-Yo Ma. 01:32:44.500 --> 01:33:17.400 When he, he played the violin, I mean the cello and she danced and improvised at the Ptrizker Pavilion. So she was very much involved. So she is a beautiful artist, she is very much a part of Natya. She got married in 2003. And always wanted to be in Chicago, but got married to an Indian guy who was in New York. And so she moved to New York and then they moved to California. 01:33:17.400 --> 01:33:46.000 Now they’re in California but she's very much a part and parcel of Natya, because in those days she used to come almost every now and then. But then when she had three children, she couldn't come that often. But even now she comes for all day and now it's virtual, a lot of it. She also teaches and she also choreographs and performs and she's my co-artistic director in the Natya Dance Theater. So from that point of view she's very much involved 01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:47.400 [JJ]: Even from a distance. 01:33:47.400 --> 01:34:08.100 [HR]: Yes, yes, yes. She’s...so our Board is very involved with her. So she has--And she comes from the younger generations, so she comes from the younger generation, so she's the one who pulled of all these virtual--And I am not at all good there. So she does all that even, yeah. 01:34:08.100 --> 01:34:27.400 [JJ]: So that leads me to the next question just seamlessly, it’s that are there any recommendations you would give to someone who’s planning to leave India and come to the US today? Or just to younger generations of Indian Americans who are just new to America and have a past in India? 01:34:27.400 --> 01:35:07.300 [HR]: ...That;s a very tough question. I'll tell you why. Because my beliefs and my love for India is too much. And I believe that--And I'm not a materialistic person. So I came here for various other reasons not for materialistic reasons. And I stayed in this--Oh, just so you know. I stayed here after the second--We were going to go back, remember? So but then I stayed here only because I was teaching these children. There were seven of them. 01:35:07.300 --> 01:35:44.200 And just so you know, I was teaching them free of charge. I did not charge money. So--And so I stayed here for the reasons of inculcating Indian values and bringing awareness of Indian culture. Which I feel very gratified, because I think it was, I was one of the components that brought the Hindu Temple up, you know? I would say that yes, very, very proudly. But you know, if I have to-- 01:35:44.200 --> 01:36:13.300 You know, why come to--Yes! United States is a great opportunity for furthering your career. And yes, if you are a doctor, you can still be a doctor in India. I don't see why you should come here. If you're a scientist, you can still be a scientist in India, yes. But I think the only reason why you can come here is--And things may be changing now, which I’ve heard. 01:36:13.300 --> 01:36:27.100 The bureaucracy is less. The red tape-ism is less. One can get to--I would say, “Yes. You don't have to come here, really.” So I'm, you know-- 01:36:27.100 --> 01:36:28.700 [JJ]: Divided about that 01:36:28.500 --> 01:36:29.500 [HR]: Divided about that 01:36:29.500 --> 01:36:45.300 [JJ]: I see. So it that--You spoke about, like, just finding dance when you were here. Is that--I don’t want to plant that idea. But what prompted you to become a US citizen? And if you and your spouse became US citizens together. 01:36:45.300 --> 01:37:14.300 [HR]: Yes. We became US citizens after, I think, 10 or so years. And not for any other, and the reason why we became US citizens I think was because, by that time we planted ourselves here. And for the betterment of our child and for the furthering of, you know, my husband recommended that we become. And that's the only reason why I became a US citizen. 01:37:14.300 --> 01:37:33.700 And I do feel like I am part--here, you know? I do feel like, this is my home. Of course, this is my home now. And because of my students and the culture and the temples and the community, I'm here. So I think, yeah. 01:37:35.000 --> 01:37:50.200 [JJ]: So coming to--we started with childhood, and then your adult life--so coming to right now, we are living in a global pandemic right now. So how has your life changed or it has been affected due to the current COVID-19 pandemic? 01:37:50.200 --> 01:38:19.900 [HR]: It is really a very, very difficult time. I have to say that I was in India from November to February because my father had some surgery. Then my mother fell sick. So I went in November, and I was supposed to perform in India. My company was supposed to perform in India, a major venue in December but we didn't do that because you know my parents fell ill. 01:38:19.900 --> 01:38:50.500 And after coming here, and the pandemic started, I am so torn because I'm not able to go and take care of them. They're, they're not in a very good condition. My brother is holding the fort. We have servants. I am on the phone all the time and I have CCTV in every room so I'm watching them carefully. So the situation is that. At the same time I have all these people who are dependent on me. 01:38:50.500 --> 01:39:21.200 And my performances or the showcases, the students performances, all that have been postponed. And there are some that went onto went to virtual platform. So I had to change, and I'm not at all computer savvy or anything like that. So it was Krithika’s doing, that we are now teaching on Zoom and doing performances on the platform, on this virtual platform. 01:39:21.200 --> 01:39:50.000 And so, you know, so much of it has been displaced. So we don't know what's going to happen even in the fall, so. And then I am waiting to go back to India. But I don't know what will happen. I'm already 70 years old. I'm compromised. I don't know that I can go there. So the pandemic has changed a lot of scenario. But work-wise, dance-wise, it’s kind of going but-- 01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:50.900 [JJ]: Still managing, yeah 01:39:50.900 --> 01:39:56.700 [HR]: --not in a way that we would like to have it of course. But not--yeah. 01:39:56.700 --> 01:40:04.600 [JJ]: Okay is there anything else about your life that we might have missed with the questions that you would like to add? 01:40:04.600 --> 01:40:17.600 [HR]: I want to say that the Indo American Heritage Museum which was, I think--not sure whose idea was it, I don’t know that it was Padma Rangaswamy who originally-- 01:40:17.600 --> 01:40:21.000 [JJ]: It was Padma, I think it was Lakshmi as well? Lakshmi Menon. 01:40:20.300 --> 01:40:49.300 [HR]: Lakshmi. Both good friends of mine. And, so I've come to several meetings and I always felt that this is something--Originally, I used to feel, what is going to happen listening to all these, you know, people? But now I understand that it’s very important because, even then I understood later that is a very important thing for us to track our heritage, you know? The tracking. 01:40:49.300 --> 01:41:18.800 And to commemorate, and to kind of hold, you know? Hold respect for those people who were there so that others could follow suit, and maybe develop. It’s very, very important. So I think from that point of view, the organization is doing yeoman service, you know? When originally, when they told me about it, my husband also told me once that, he also was talking about, 01:41:18.800 --> 01:41:48.500 “You know, maybe you should just have a virtual exhibition, a virtual public museum somewhere,” which for a while, it was virtually there. So, I think it's a great organization and such kind of, there are lots of organizations that are there. I think they all contribute a lot to the Indian Community. I don't know other than that I'm not sure whether we have missed. 01:41:48.500 --> 01:42:03.300 I've talked about the temples. I’ve talked about my teaching here. The people, and the way of life, you know? And, no I think we've covered. You’ve asked very good questions. 01:42:03.300 --> 01:42:24.100 [JJ]: Thank you. Alright, so, we will stop the recording here now, for Mrs. Hema Rajagopalan. And it's 1:13, 20th August 2020. And this is Jitesh Jaggi from the National Indo-American Museum. Thank you very much for contributing your time and your words. 01:42:20.500 --> 01:42:24.100 [HR]: You’re welcome, thank you.