WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:53:55.001 [JITESH JAGGI]: This is Jitesh Jaggi for National Indo American Museum’s Oral History Project, today at the residence of Arvind Menon. Can you please state and spell your name? 00:00:00.002 --> 00:53:55.002 [ARVIND MENON]: A-R-V-I-N-D. 00:00:00.003 --> 00:53:55.003 [JJ]: When and where were you born? 00:00:00.004 --> 00:53:55.004 [AM]: I was born in Rangoon, Burma, Now called Yangon, Myanmar. 00:00:00.005 --> 00:53:55.005 [JJ]: What languages did you speak growing up? 00:00:00.006 --> 00:53:55.006 [AM]: I spoke in the early years only in English, and later I spoke my native tongue when we came back to India because of the Japanese invasion of Burma. And I forgot all my English and spoke only Malayalam, our native tongue, for several years until we went back to Burma about five years later. 00:00:00.007 --> 00:53:55.007 [JJ]: Did you learn Malayalam when you were in India or was it spoken around the house? 00:00:00.008 --> 00:53:55.008 [AM]: Yes, yes. It was the spoken language there, and everybody spoke Mal-Ayalam, and I picked it up. When you're young you pick up languages really fast 00:00:00.009 --> 00:53:55.009 [JJ]: So how would you describe your experience growing up in Myanmar? 00:00:00.010 --> 00:53:55.010 [AM]: I have very few actual memories of my early life because we were evacuees from Burma, and I was about 4 and 3/4 years old. And it was a harrowing experience because we could not come by ship which was the usual way, because that was cut off and we were in Northern Burma. And so we had to basically trek across Assam to get to India. And I have very few memories before that of Burma. We were in northern Burma in a district called Mitchina, and I remember inspecting some trenches in our house as we were preparing for the Japanese invasion and the bombing and all that. I remember looking down at the trenches and I also remember some planes overhead and I was told they were Royal Air Force planes and I remember a few scenes of the roads with high hedges and a European --Englishman-- riding a horse along the roads. Those are the only clear memories that I have. And more memories of the trip across As-sam with my mother and a group of 30 to40 Indians 00:00:00.011 --> 00:53:55.011 [JJ]: How was the experience in India then? Were you in Assam, or where did you settle down? 00:00:00.012 --> 00:53:55.012 [AM]: We inaudible a train from the first railway station we came across in India and went to Calcutta and from Calcutta we caught another train to Cheruthuruthy, which is a small village where my ancestral home is, and we reached our mother’s sister's home and stayed with that family for several months or a year. And my father was not allowed to get out of Burma, because he was head of the district for Medicine. He was the District Medical Officer, and the British did not allow the higher Executive types to leave because that would completely disable the system. So he was asked to stay behind, and my mother escorted her 4 sons and was also leader of this other group of predominantly women and a few older men. In those days older meant above 50 **laughs**. So she got us through safely through this very difficult journey. 00:00:00.013 --> 00:53:55.013 [JJ]: So when did you come to the United States and what brought you here? 00:00:00.014 --> 00:53:55.014 [AM]: Well, as you know, I graduated from medical school. I wasn’t an extraordinary student, I spend more time on sporting activities. I was addicted to various kinds of sports, particularly table tennis and tennis and I played some more time playing in tournaments and doing that in college more than in actual studies. Maybe that's why I didn't come out as a star student. But I did get through and then I did my post-graduate in general medicine --MD --in Madras University. I had some trouble getting in --It’s an interesting story how I got in. I got in Because one of the Selection Committee members was my professor and when the other examiner–questioner --some lady --asked me if I won any prizes in college, I sheepishly said “No, no, I didn’t have any inaudible” Then this man came to my rescue and said “What do mean no prizes? Didn’t you get this prize for tennis, and cricket, and this and that?” “Yes sir, yes sir.” **laughing**He had come for the --he was guest of honor for the Hostel Day celebrations Where they give prizes to people who had won something. He was very familiar with me, and I was his student in class, so he knew me personally. So my athletic activity helped me even to get into Postgraduate. Because at that time there was some negative thought about people Outside Kerala. Obviously, I was a Malayali. At that time, it was becoming more or less a Tamilian institution. So I was able to scrape through that period. After my -- I got a job in the Railways. It supported me and that’s when I got married and I was supposed to go to England, because my family-- father and my older brother went to England for his post graduate medical degree and so that was what my father had planned. And I actually got a work permit to work in England. And after my marriage life changed because my wife had been to the US and finished high school and liked life in America much more than the life that she briefly experienced in England when she passed through London on the way --especially she liked the warmer climate and central heating that they have in America, while in England If you didn't want to be cold it cost you money. You had to put Shillings into the heater, then it would heat up. **laughing** So Indians being very Kanjoose would rather feel the cold than Spend money on that. While in central it was already…so it was much more advanced. There are many reasons for that, but I joke to her about that it was warmer, that’s why you wanted me to come to America. Anyway, I’m so glad that she made that choice or influenced me to come to America. Because what happened in later years is people who went to England and then came to America because they found America was a much better place to be. In England they were not given citizenship and this and that, they were still treated like immigrants, job opportunities were hardly there. So they came to America, but they found that after spending a few years getting their MRCP, they still had to go through the basics in America. So they lost several years. That did not happen to me because I came straight there and luckily for me, I also had connections in the US because my father had Taught--was a professor in Burma in the medical school and some of his students in high positions in Delhi --physicians to Indira Gandhi and one was Later on --became a top officer in the Army and such. These were people who had connections in the United States. So I–what really got me was my own boss in Madras. I worked in the Railway Hospital and the man who I worked under was unique. He was just an internist, but he wanted to be a surgeon and he had some experience as a DMO in the Railways. When you are the District Medical Officer, you are the boss. You can pretty much do what you want. So he used to do surgery **laughing** all kinds of things in the Railway Hospital when he was an internist. So then he took further training in Vellore-Vellore Christian Medical College, very famous, one of the top medical schools in India, maybe the top at that time. Later on, we got some more in the Bombay area, and also in Delhi. But at that time it was the top because the doctors who were working there, some of them were trained in the US and it was an extension. They came for charitable purposes and spent few years or months in Vellore. So this man went there and took some training in thoracic surgery and he started doing even heart surgery in Railway Hospital **laughing**-minor heart surgery --not very big. So he knew the people in Vellore and the doctor--the heart surgeon in Denver, Colorado had worked in Christian Medical School. At one time he had come to Railway Hospital to Help with a very complicated heart surgery. I remember that, and meeting him. Ultimately the patient died, after--in spite of getting 8 liters of blood. So he knows me briefly. He also knows the level of training that we have. So he was able to recommend me to his hospital. inaudible. I know this guy, he works in this place, and they’ve got good training, so he’ll be fine. So I just walked into this training program which was--they had maybe 40 interns and residents in that Hospital. It was affiliated with the University of Colorado. It was a Catholic institution, and the nuns were really nice to me and all of us. And we stayed in the hospital Itself --quarters-- and it was very nice because my wife and all the other wives of the doctors they all hung out together. And we had no children at that time, so she would do babysitting for the others. So she was a big help to everybody. And it was familiar to her because she went to school here, so there was no problem with any communication for anything. inaudible. And I had an interesting Year there --very interesting. If you’d like to hear about it, I will tell you. 00:00:00.015 --> 00:53:55.015 [JJ]: Yeah, yeah. 00:00:00.016 --> 00:53:55.016 [AM]: You know, I went there, and they gave me since I had my MD there and they knew our education there, I skipped the internship and early residency and I started as a Senior Resident which is unheard of. **laughing**So you come here, and you start at the bottom even though you have all your degrees. But they, since they knew my education, they gave me a Senior Resident’s job that is usually after at least two or three years of training there. So I jumped into that and since I’d already worked after that in the Railway Hospital, I knew how medicine was actually practiced. So--and I like teaching. I always liked to teach. I used to teach all the post graduate students and undergraduate students. You know, some people like teaching. I love teaching. So that was familiar to me. Anyway what happened was very remarkable. In the--I’ll tell you how I--my first experience, my first day in Denver Colorado. We were only given $8 a person for travel expenses. Indian government was really tight on foreign exchange in those days. So there was $16. **laughs** I missed the bus at the hotel. We were staying in a nice hotel in Tokyo and bus was supposed to leave at 11 o’clock for the airport. In India 11 o’clock would mean, you know, 11:15, 11:30 so **laughing**I reached 3 minutes after 11, and they told me the bus already had gone. **laughing**I was in shock. The only way was to spend my $16 and get a taxi to go to the airport. So when we landed in America, we were penniless and unfortunately there was a strike going on and we got the last flight from San Francisco to Denver. We reached Denver, but luckily the chief administrator of the hospital’s-- The Residency program, ex-army guy, very nice fellow, guess what? He came to the airport to pick us up! Unheard of these days **laughing**. He picked us up and he had his Nice Chrysler Imperial car. I was very impressed. We got into the car, and we had to go –-you know usually 15-20 miles to where the hospital was. I didn’t see a single human being on the road. Only cars! I said, “What is this country?” There’s no people --only cars? There’s not a single human --inaudible you know if you go to any Indian state, there’s people and people and people. Here, just cars! Nobody! So I said this is very strange. And he took us to our quarters, and he was so thoughtful. He knew we didn't have any Facilities, so he brought cooking vessels and, from his house, so that we could prepare meals and it was so good of them. Those things never happen now. I was so lucky. Of course, my wife didn't know any cooking, but that's another Matter. What we had-- and the apartment was fully furnished with a single bedroom – efficiency apartment. The bed was on the wall, and you pulled it in, and it became a bed, and during the day you pulled it back up 00:00:00.017 --> 00:53:55.017 [JJ]: A Murphy bed 00:00:00.018 --> 00:53:55.018 [AM]: Oh yes. So that was fine, you know, two young People, and Then we got $50 for eating in the cafeteria. Quarters were Just about 50 --hundred feet from the quarters. You could walk across there and go to the cafeteria and have breakfast and lunch and all. Things were cheap then. $50 was a lot. We could eat most of Meals there. And my first big outing for Eating was to the McDonald's. **laughs**. In India McDonalds was just coming in so that was a big deal for us. So that was the change in the whole lifestyle. So I came one day, one evening. I think we reached on a Sunday or something. On the 4th of-- it was the 4th of July which was a national holiday or something. And the 5th was-- I went to work! No time to get used to anything! And on the 5th day I was examining patients and teaching and that is quite remarkable--all because of my English training. Because they had other people come from South America, from other parts of Europe and they couldn't handle English. The fact that Indians knew how to speak English, particularly my background, was really helpful. Otherwise how could I come one day, and next day start treating patients? You want some funny experiences I'll tell you. There isa difference between British English, which is what we were taught, and American English. I found that out early. There was a patient who had something funny, something in the throat. We had to examine the throat to see what it was. So these Nurses didn't know me from Adam, but they treated me well, I was wearing the white coat and all that. I asked her, “Please give me a torch. “A torch has a completely different meaning. It is--for them a torch is something you light and you wave inaudible This is called a flashlight. So she looked at me and looked kind of strange, and almost called the police inaudible **laughter**She thought I was trying to set fire to the place. That was so funny. I didn’t realize why all this commotion was. English words have a different meaning in different parts of the --And so I was able to manage with my education because I’d done my MD and I also I had worked. It is one thing is to go to school and learn how to pass the examination and other thing to actually work and be a doctor. So I had done Both. I had worked in the Railway Hospital which was modelled after the Christian Medical College Hospital in Vellore, so I was familiar with the American system and all that. It was easy for me. Again I was fortunate. Everything happened to me, I was fortunate. I don’t consider myself a very smart or very --I was very lucky. Because every time I had any kind of a situation, I was prepared for it. And if I had to turn right or left, I made the right turn, luckily. It all depends upon which --we choose which turn to make and I happen to make the right turn. So I was very, very fortunate in that. 00:00:00.019 --> 00:53:55.019 [JJ]: Were you homesick, though? Did you ever feel homesick? 00:00:00.020 --> 00:53:55.020 [AM]: Not really, because, you know, my wife is a wonderful person. And I was new to being married so all my –there was a completely new experience for me and when you working --you know, a doctor works round the clock so there’s not much time and I was raised in a sort of semi-British tradition. My mother was not a-- a college graduate and in those days that was really unusual. Why did my mother become a college graduate? Because she was a determined woman. She said, “I'm going to be A college graduate.” Nobody in her family had even gone to college. So she said, “I'm going to be a college Graduate.” And so she was extremely determined, and she did everything that was necessary to get into college. She went to Presidency College, which is one of the leading institutions in India at that time and she took Zoology. She didn’t want to be a doctor or anything, she just wanted to be**laughing** a coll --she did Zoology. And she did pass. And there’s an interesting episode There which kind underlined her way of thinking, and which defined the treatment of her Children and family. Because the woman is still the prime --because the father goes around --goes to work and it’s the mother. And she was a Gandhian. Nairs are not typically vegetarians. But once as a little girl she went past a butcher shop and her whole life changed. She said, “I'm not going to eat any meat anymore.” So she became a vegetarian. Then, when she was in Chennai, --which was not in Kerala, it was in Madras--they were having this Quit India movement at that time and there was some protest that day and as part of that, the Quit India people told the students not to attend class. So on that particular day she stayed away from the class and next morning she went to class. Her teacher was --guess what? --a Britisher --professor was a Britisher. And --see that’s a difference between education Those days and education now. Especially now the people who teach English are really not that well educated, or their accent is bad. But those days they were taught by Britishers --or at least my mother was, my father was. And so, coming to the point, each, the people who did not attend, all of them inaudible were asked to come before the professor and be questioned. “Why did you not come to class?” and **laughing** the ones before her all said, “I had fever,” “I had a headache,” or “My mother’s sister passed away,” --all kinds of excuses. **laughing** The fellow didn’t believe --how can everybody have something that day. Then my mother came up and she looked, she looked at him straight in the face-- She looks straight and says, “Why didn’t you come to class?” “I was observing hartle.” 00:00:00.021 --> 00:53:55.021 [JJ]: Observing--? 00:00:00.022 --> 00:53:55.022 [AM]: ‘Hartle.’ **laughs** Hartaal! English fellows used to say ‘Hartle.” I was observing ‘hartle,’” she says. And she --and this man was furious. But glad at least somebody spoke the truth. She stared at him. He stared at her and said, “Get out! “So that was the--that sort of exemplifies my mother, how she is tough, she is patriotic, and she never tells lies. This was taught to us from childhood. I never even dreamt of telling a lie --I meant just didn’t occur to me. Luckily for me I did not need to tell lies. You know, why do people tell lies? To get out of trouble and this and that. But luckily for me, I never had that Situation. My younger brother was not that fortunate. Poor fellow had some learning disability. I think he was --what do you call that now? 00:00:00.023 --> 00:53:55.023 [JJ]: ADHD? 00:00:00.024 --> 00:53:55.024 [AM]: Yeah, something like that, yeah. And he --those times, those days, they didn’t know what that was. I don’t think he was stupid or anything. So he didn’t do well in school. They didn’t know what to do with him. They just treated him like everybody else. He was slow. So he --I remember he used to tell fibs. There’s a difference between a lie and a fib, right? A fib is a small lie. He used to tell fibs right from the start. My father used to teach him during the war time years when he was A refugee, and he would bluff his way through mathematics. My father would get furious with him. So he used this fibbing to get out of trouble. Fortunately, I didn’t have to. My mother was tough with me. She taught me how to write properly But I didn't write--my handwriting was bad and still is. If I had listened to my mother. It would have been better. She was Tough. She was a-- You never messed with her. One day when I was a little fellow, may be 6 years old or Something, she was teaching me I did something wrong and I started--she yelled at me, I started screaming and she took the sari and stuffed it into my mouth --I still remember that. **laughter** So she never let--she wanted us to be good children and study hard and all that. So this is a major point in our upbringing. The standards were very high and good, good standards. We didn’t measure up to that standard, because I was equally interested in sports and this and that, which turned out to be all right, you know. It helped me in later years. I’m still doing some sports and all, in spite of my advanced age. So I think it’s not a bad thing, but I think it was not recognized as something necessary those days. Anyway, so that is -- was there anything more that you -- 00:00:00.025 --> 00:53:55.025 [JJ]: Yeah, I was--wanted to know more about --like-- were you involved in the Indian community here in Chicago or somewhere else, in Colorado, or inaudible? 00:00:00.026 --> 00:53:55.026 [AM]: I’ll tell you something interesting about the Indian Community in Denver, Colorado. Very interesting because There were hardly any Indians in Denver. And so when we came, we were a curiosity. And we were treated extremely well. The nuns treated us very well. And one example of the treatment was for Thanksgiving. Very important for Americans. And we were connected through the church in our --because it was run by the nuns. So through them they got our Name. They would like to have a real Indian there, you know, because Thanksgiving is connected with the Indian tribes. And instead they got us. **laughter**. So this was interesting because we had never been invited to an American family before. So we went there for Thanksgiving, and they fed us all a great Thanksgiving meal, and we were so impressed. They were so nice to us just because we were --they thought we were the same Indians that they had here. **laughs** Anyway, that was how ignorant they were about the Indians. And in a way It was good because the later arrivals --the initial arrivals in America were all educated, mostly doctors. Because at that time the tech boom had not started. So, if they didn't know you, they called you “doctor.” It was so, so prevalent, because the doctors were the first ones to get --the reason was they had fewer doctors than they needed. The medical-industrial complex had grown so fast that they didn’t have enough trained the American doctors and then on my first year, after a month or so, or two months, most--all the Senior residents in the St. Joseph Hospital, affiliated with the University of Colorado, they joined the army. Because they got a deferment. Normally you have to go to the Army but because they were doctors and in training, they Deferred. But then suddenly a million people were sent to Vietnam for the for the war --Johnson. So they needed the doctors. So these people inaudible. So they said, “Okay, guys, end of your training. You can start when you come back, you go now and join and go to Viet Nam. So they all went. That meant there were no senior physicians --senior residents. Guess who made --Who was the Chief Resident? 00:00:00.027 --> 00:53:55.027 [JJ]: inaudible 00:00:00.028 --> 00:53:55.028 [AM]: **laughing** After one month, I became the chief resident of the –there were lots of--30, 40 people. That was again very, very unusual. You know, who would have thought all these things? But luckily, they knew that I spoke English. Secondly, the people who I was with knew that I had already a Post graduate education and I had already worked. So they were comfortable with choosing me. What else, could they have--where would they Suddenly go to find somebody? So they gave me chief residency in medicine and a teaching hospital, and I enjoy teaching. So there's no problem. And so that was helpful, because, you know, that is the biggest position in a training program --a chief residency. Then later on, when I went to University of Kentucky the next year, I wanted to be in a University Hospital. This was not --even though it was affiliated, it was not a university hospital. I wanted to do my fellowship in Cardiology. So I went to Denver --no I went to Lexington, Kentucky because one of the doctors who was in that hospital had a connection with Lexington, Kentucky and he recommended me –that is also an interesting story. 00:00:00.029 --> 00:53:55.029 [JJ]: Otherwise, in Chicago, in Illinois, were you, like, connected with Indian community, any organizations or something? 00:00:00.030 --> 00:53:55.030 [AM]: In Denver, I was walking on the street in front of the hospital and one fellow came up to me and he said, he was happy and surprised to see me, and he called me “Indian friend “and he stuck his hand out and he said “I am Palaani. P M Palaani.” I knew immediately he was a Tamilian His name was Palani, not Palaani. And I said ‘enna appa, Palani?” So he was even more overjoyed. He met another Indian, and he spoke Tamil! So he was --he was--This is typical in those days. The church groups always welcomed Indians and converted them if they had a chance. And this fellow was so lonesome didn't have a inaudible He knew nobody. I don't know how he got there, but these people were I think Seventh-day Adventist or something, they were a deeply religious group. They fed him and just took him in, and they converted him to Christianity. And he was so happy to see us, especially since I spoke Tamil. I know several languages because I lived in many parts of India, so he was very happy. That just shows you how infrequently you see Indians those days. You have to be a doctor in one of the hospitals or you have to be like Palani. There was no Indian association or anything at that time in Denver, there was hardly no –yeah--So that was not part of our --all that happened when we came to Lexington, Kentucky that’s when, being part of the University, there were a lot of Indians. Mostly in the faculty, and some of them were in training, and some of them Were employed by IBM and tech companies. You know, things progressed very rapidly. In two or three years the whole thing changed. Now you don't automatically call an Indian “doctor,” you may be an engineer, you know? So things changed rapidly, and we were very much part of the Indian community there and they had I think an India Day Celebration --I think Lakshmi will tell you more about That--and how we had booths and everything, and people --it was a typical Indian thing there, stalls and …So we had a good flourishing Indian community. It was a big difference when we arrived in the University of inaudible. Lexington was composed of mainly the University, IBM and a few other things. All the other Kentuckians lived up in the hills. And they were very backward. They had poor education and very little. And we--from the University we used to go once a month to take care of their medical needs. That was how bad it was. inaudibleto Lexington. The other thing Lexington had was racehorses. 00:00:00.031 --> 00:53:55.031 [JJ]: Yeah. The Derby 00:00:00.032 --> 00:53:55.032 [AM]: The Derby. They had these thoroughbred farms. Lexington, you go out, you drive around you see open spaces with fences, and inside You see horses. They trained all these horses. So horses and the University made Lexington A fancy place. Ordinary people lived outside Lexington. Lexington had the university and the horse farms. 00:00:00.033 --> 00:53:55.033 [JJ]: Is there, collectively speaking-- what do you think, what kind of impact have Indian Americans made in the US, or Chicago in particular or US in general? --Over the years 00:00:00.034 --> 00:53:55.034 [AM]: The Indian Americans are Not --are considered educated-- doctors or Engineers --brainy, except in very recent years, we have had a flow of uneducated, or poorly educated Indians coming as family and some of them --that has surprised many Americans. They thought automatically they were highly educated. So there was an influx of that. I am not saying it in a negative way, but that is the reality. In the old days you could not get into-- unless you had highly Technical Training. Now, you come if your Children are here, and they Can import their parents, and then once parents come, they can --there are other ways of getting in, and this has also helped the Indian community who came here particularly the Gujarati community, the Patels. I think they are actually farmers out there, but once they come here --they are very smart, and intelligent and hard-working, and they’ve prospered and –better than people like us, you know. We don’t have that kind of background. They work hard, and they know how to save money and so those people--you do not make money from working for others, they work for themselves, and they are --they are a different culture. I am not that familiar with them, but I respect their work ethic. They are not --a typical example is the Patel Brothers. When they First came here to Chicago, they were a small Shop in Devon Street and Lakshmi knew Mr. Patel. There were so few Indians there, and he would come and talk to us and relate to inaudiblethings and that’s how close we were in such a small Indian community. But that didn’t get to his head. He dressed like a normal person, and then later on he became so big, that when his daughter got married, he imported flowers from India for the wedding and the children Got educated and they maintained the same kind of connections except that they took the business to a higher level because of their education and they opened up branches all over, all over the town but still had a very good business sense. And I would--recently I sent photo of the Patel Brothers shop in the western suburban it looks like a --Niles, yes --just to show people the kind of --the size of the store. Amazing. And it’s very, very popular, and we go there sometimes to Get to get food and other things at a discount, also things that we normally don't get. They’ve done a great job. And it’s now being used by non-Indians also. Nobody can turn down a good deal! **laughter**. They are very good businessmen, and the children I think have contributed to that because they understand business a little bit more. So I think-- I'm just talking about the Patels because I am familiar with the Patels being here, but there are other communities also doing well. In Kentucky we had a Sardarji Who was teaching. He had a good reputation although later on he got into trouble for something --I don’t know. But generally Indians have a good reputation. 00:00:00.035 --> 00:53:55.035 [JJ]: Right. So what do you do other than work? What do you do in your leisure time? Are there some hobbies? 00:00:00.036 --> 00:53:55.036 [AM]: Personally, I have to--when you get old, various organ systems in your **laughing** body start failing. Being a doctor, I kind of try to take care of myself, I have to take several pills **laughs** a day, And I have to make sure it’s the right one, and then I try to do some exercise and my wife gives me the proper diet and I also keep in touch with medicine. Because today you don't need to go somewhere to hear a lecture, you can hear it all on the internet, and since I have so many patients within myself, I try to keep up with that. And I’ve been going to conferences every year --two major--Heart Association and American College of Cardiology conferences wherever they’re held. I've been going since 19 --1966. I’ve been going every year for both conferences apart inaudibleFrom --so I used to --inaudible I’m big on continuing education. Of course this year I have not gone because of the COVID, **coughs** so That’s a good --and Lakshmi would come with me and--chance to get out of here, and then **coughs**. I still try to play a little bit of tennis. I can’t play singles, but a little bit of doubles. I’m a member of the local club here and hit the ball machine and do something to stay physically active because it’s something that keeps--keeps me going. I do a lot of yoga and meditation. I had my first bypass when I was42 years old. And my boss at that Time, I asked him, “What can you do to stay alive? “He said “Hardly anything. You live for maybe 5 years on an average.” And I also was told --somewhere I read about--one of my patient’s son --he was a Jewish fellow, and his son was into meditation. You know how meditation has traversed all--all religions and cultures. So, so he was a devotee of er Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He was the first one to introduce yoga into the United States--meditation into the United States. And so he was a disciple of that, and he insisted on coming to our house. **laughing** I didn’t know this fellow --I knew his father a little bit Because he was in Cardiac Rehab So he taught all of us the basics of -- you know--meditation. But I'm the only one who actually Practices it. My son has now started, late in life. Very simple, 10 minutes in the morning, 10 minutes in the evening A very simple thing, so that the Americans --you know--you don't have that kind of time to spend so 10 minutes in the morning, 10 in the evening, and then --It was basic, but it still --practiced that regularly for a very long time. Then I went into yoga. I have something called fibromyalgia. Anytime I exercise my muscles start aching like crazy, so I have to do stretching exercises. Yoga is a great stretching exercise. And after that you do your savasana and that is great for further relaxation and also because it Relaxes your mind, your mind is Relaxed, the body is relaxed--the connection--the Mind Body Connection. I firmly believe in that, and I practice that. I don't do it for a1 hour or anything--a few minutes, several times a day that suits needs. Because I get stiff and achy several times, so I .do that whenever is…proper posture --as you get older you need to --you have the Hunchback syndrome and all that, and I have all that. I didn't know enough about it, anyway I didn't have time to do all that when I was working. When you’re working, you know, you’re working all the time, because that’s what our business is **laughing** you know, doctoring. You can’t say I'm tired or Anything, you just have to do it. So now I'm finding the--I need yoga and meditation. I would highly recommend that to all people. Start young, the younger the better, and keep it up and it’s not a waste of time. But even a little bit is good. As you get older you have more time. These are things that are not Western. Started in ancient India--you know thousands of years ago. Same thing with Ayurveda.I am an allopathic physician, and my father was an allopathic physician. He used to pooh pooh all these Ayurvedic things, but I'm not like that anymore. We still don’t have all the answers in allopathic medicine. If we had, there wouldn’t be a hundred papers being written every day **laughs**because they don’t know, they are searching for answers. And we have something which are not real answers because they don't have the kind of data that you require today, but from experience they know certain things work and I am a firm believer that alternative medicine, which includes yoga and meditation, is something that is worth trying --a firm believer, and coming from an allopathic physician and this is because the more, the older you get, there are more diseases that you don’t have answers for--full answers --you can always take some medicines for pain and this and that, but you can also avoid medicines by just doing some stretching and yoga. So I--if you have--need a bypass operation, you need a bypass operation. You can’t do **laughs** yoga and meditation for that. But you can combine these things. And from experience I have learned that they are valuable assets, and we need to get more research done on this. Although there are some small studies showing that they are beneficial, it’s not the kind of controlled study that we see in Western medicine. I am talking from personal experience. I firmly believe many of the diet things that we have come from yoga --I’m sorry --from Ayurveda. So I think that's just something that we can as a group should support, and it needs community support for this kind of thing. Because it’s a real thing. We are not selling anything, you know. We are just trying to be good guys. And we should make it in a way that it doesn't sound like publicity. There’s a lot of publicity today. Advertising. This is from the goodness of your heart. I'm not saying there is no ulterior motive in all these things --some people are trying to make a benefit out of it. But I think it is real. It is real, it is an area which Western medicine hasn’t gone into. It’s a completely different field. And from experience and from my medical background, I firmly believe in that. My father didn’t. Because he was gung-ho on Western science. And at that time, Western science was not developed and when he saw all the things that you could do with Western science, he was so impressed but now I’m finding that it doesn't have all the answers--that if you lack answers, you can look into alternative medicine as it is called. 00:00:00.037 --> 00:53:55.037 [JJ]: Thank you very much, Mr. Arvind, it was nice chatting with you. And this Concludes our interview for today. 00:00:00.038 --> 00:53:55.038 [AM]: Thank you.