WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 01:11:43.000 [INTERVIEWER]: We should be okay. I’m going to, okay. And I hope, I hope this gets both of us very well. 00:00:00.001 --> 01:11:43.001 [NASEEM UMAR]: You want to bring it closer? 00:00:00.002 --> 01:11:43.002 [INT]: I'm going to start by telling you that we must, I'm going to ask you for your name. State and spell your name for me. 00:00:00.003 --> 01:11:43.003 [NU]: My name is Naseem Umar. N a s e e m as in Mary. Umar. U m a r. 00:00:00.004 --> 01:11:43.004 [INT]: When and where were you born? 00:00:00.005 --> 01:11:43.005 [NU]: I was born in Gujarat, a small town called Ankleshwar, because that’s where my maternal grandfather used to live. So, in those days mom’s normally left the big city to go back, join their parents to go deliver babies. But, I grew up in Ahmedabad. Where I spent my 29 years of my life until I migrated to this country. So I grew up in Ahmedabad. 00:00:00.006 --> 01:11:43.006 [INT]: So, you were nine years old when you came to the US? 00:00:00.007 --> 01:11:43.007 [NU]: 29. 00:00:00.008 --> 01:11:43.008 [INT]: 29. Oh, so you lived in Ahmedabad ‘til then? 00:00:00.009 --> 01:11:43.009 [NU]: Yeah, yes. I did. 00:00:00.010 --> 01:11:43.010 [INT]: Okay, I misheard. And what year did you come to the U. S.? 00:00:00.011 --> 01:11:43.011 [NU]: So, I migrated to this country exactly June 12th, 1982. 00:00:00.012 --> 01:11:43.012 [INT]: So, it’s almost an anniversary day. 00:00:00.013 --> 01:11:43.013 [NU]: Yeah, almost. 35 years passed by. 00:00:00.014 --> 01:11:43.014 [INT]: What language did you speak while you were growing up? 00:00:00.015 --> 01:11:43.015 [NU]: We grew up in Gujrati speaking household, so my mother-tongue is Gujrati. But we lived in a society which was Urdu speaking, so we grew up speaking both the languages. And then we were sent to convents where we were taught only in English. First five years of schooling. So we became very fluent in three languages, all three languages, simultaneously. Multilingual. 00:00:00.016 --> 01:11:43.016 [INT]: So, you spoke Gujrati with your family and Urdu-- 00:00:00.017 --> 01:11:43.017 [NU]: Playing with the friends and in the society that I grew up, and English at school. Multilingual. 00:00:00.018 --> 01:11:43.018 [INT]: And, you mentioned that you went to a convent school. 00:00:00.019 --> 01:11:43.019 [NU]: Yeah, we were very fortunate to be living very close, walking distance from a very exclusive convent, all girl’s convent. So, I went to a school from kindergarten through my high-school graduation. One compound, one structure, one building. All girls high-school. 00:00:00.020 --> 01:11:43.020 [INT]: How many students? 00:00:00.021 --> 01:11:43.021 [NU]: In those days, considering our population, maybe about 1,000, 1,200. It was huge complex, it was a huge complex. I graduated in 1971, so this is prior to 1971. And, enrolled in kindergarten probably when I was 5, so. 00:00:00.022 --> 01:11:43.022 [INT]: That’s a very fortunate situation to be— 00:00:00.023 --> 01:11:43.023 [NU]: Yeah, we were very fortunate because all of my cousins and my own two sisters and I, went to this all girls exclusive convent called Mt. Carmel Convent High-school. 00:00:00.024 --> 01:11:43.024 [INT]: What religion did your family practice? 00:00:00.025 --> 01:11:43.025 [NU]: I am a Suni Muslim. And I identified myself when I came to this country as a Gujrati Muslim. Because there are Muslims from all around the world in this country. So, I, that’s how I raised my boys also, telling them, reminding them from time to time, that if somebody asks you, we are supposed to identify ourselves as Gujrati Muslims. 00:00:00.026 --> 01:11:43.026 [INT]: I think you mentioned doing something pretty special in observance of your religious belief very soon. 00:00:00.027 --> 01:11:43.027 [NU]: Yeah. Growing up, we were not as religious as we were supposed to be, in my case. But, after migrating to this country, there was this spiritual awakening when we went through the culture shock. That’s when, I think, personally, I turned more towards God because I had come to this country with one son, and soon enough my second one was born, and raised, seeing what was—this society was so different than the one I was raised. My husband and I were very concerned about how will we bring them up in this new society. And, we didn’t want to lose our kids to any of the social vices so, I became more religious and God-fearing. 00:00:00.028 --> 01:11:43.028 [INT]: So, you found a mosque fairly— 00:00:00.029 --> 01:11:43.029 [NU]: No. Growing up in a Muslim household, we were taught how to read the Quran and say our prayers five times from a very tender age. And, I remember, I must be like 8 or 9, when I started fasting and we would always compete with our friends, that how many, out of 30, how many fasts did you keep, and unless we vomited or were not feeling well, we would try to keep all 30 fasts. So, that we follow. It’s just that I personally was not so careful in remembering to pray my five times prayers, which I started doing after I came to this country. 00:00:00.030 --> 01:11:43.030 [INT]: You said that you went to one school for your K – 12. What about education after? 00:00:00.031 --> 01:11:43.031 [NU]: Once again, I was very fortunate to be able to attend one of the finest colleges in Ahmedabad, St. Xavier’s College. There was some guidelines, requirements, but my convent background helped me get into that college. So four years of college at St. Xavier’s College in Ahmedabad. And then I also went for my master’s degree in Gujrat University. And my Bachelor of Education in one of the colleges which followed my master’s degree. So first I did my Bachelor’s, then my Master’s, then my Bachelor of Education. 00:00:00.032 --> 01:11:43.032 [INT]: So you were, you were qualified to teach in India when you finished? 00:00:00.033 --> 01:11:43.033 [NU]: Absolutely. And as soon as I was done with my college, I started teaching and I taught for three years in India, also. I was teaching them English as a second language, students 7th through 10th grade before I migrated to this country. 00:00:00.034 --> 01:11:43.034 [INT]: Also, you mentioned that you had a child during that time. 00:00:00.035 --> 01:11:43.035 [NU]: Yes. So, my firstborn was born while I was still enrolled in my master’s program, which was, I was like a role model to all my other friends, that I was married and I was going to have a child and I was still going to the university so that encouraged some of my friends also to follow suit. And my son was born in January 1977. 00:00:00.036 --> 01:11:43.036 [INT]: And did you take a maternity leave? 00:00:00.037 --> 01:11:43.037 [NU]: I was student at that time. Yes, I think I remember now, I had to take semester off, actually. Because I missed a crucial part of the college at that time. But, the best part was, thanks to my father who was so pro-women’s education that I knew that, I had set goals, I was goal-setter from a very young age, being the oldest, older than my three sisters. I was a goal-setter from a very young age and I knew that even after having a child, I would go back and finish my Master’s. Not only did I finish my Master’s, but then I pursued my dream of becoming a teacher. So, I went for my Bachelor of Education degree. 00:00:00.038 --> 01:11:43.038 [INT]: And, you were enjoying teaching in the school where you were working— 00:00:00.039 --> 01:11:43.039 [NU]: Oh absolutely, absolutely. Those young lives, that kind of hero-worshipping you, and giving directions, and just teaching them. And shaping young lives. I did it very passionately. 00:00:00.040 --> 01:11:43.040 [INT]: And then, a big change came in your life. 00:00:00.041 --> 01:11:43.041 [NU]: Yes, so, my husband's sister, one of his sisters had migrated mid ‘70s with her husband who was an engineer. In ‘70s, doctors, engineers, nurses, they were given opportunities to migrate to this country. And so, my husband’s brother-in-law first came in here and then his wife joined him. And, as soon as she became citizen, she applied for her siblings. So, that’s how we came to this country as landed immigrants, on green card. 00:00:00.042 --> 01:11:43.042 [INT]: The provision of the 1965 law was farsighted and enabling people to sponsor relatives. And how did that work out for you as far as your career with concern? 00:00:00.043 --> 01:11:43.043 [NU]: So, when we first came here 1982, nobody realized in my family, even my sister-in-law who sponsored us, they were not expecting what we would go through, actually. So, it was the worst recession in the recent times. My husband was a lawyer back home, I was a teacher back home. And when we first came here, we couldn’t find jobs. I had a son to support, and I wanted to pursue my career as a teacher. My husband was okay with any kind of job, so was I, in a way. So, when I first landed—we spent one year in New York doing odd jobs. But, when we came to Chicago in 1983, my very first job, five days after I arrived here, was working in a factory by Racine and Fullerton, folding newborn, newbies, preemies undergarments. And, that too was like a blessing to have the job. While I was fortunate to have that job, my husband was without work for almost six months. 00:00:00.044 --> 01:11:43.044 [INT]: So you were living a very modest income that you earned 00:00:00.045 --> 01:11:43.045 [NU]: Almost barely making two ends meet. I made minimum wages, that was $3.35 in those days. And, thanks to my sister-in-law, God bless her soul, she would help us with a few groceries, here and there, and being conservative Indians, we believed in homemade food, cooking homemade cooking, not buying extra inaudible clothes, not pretty much partying, so, living within your budget. And that helped us a lot. 00:00:00.046 --> 01:11:43.046 [INT]: So, living modestly, how long did you work at that? Job and the factory— 00:00:00.047 --> 01:11:43.047 [NU]: So, the culture, I had a very good upbringing, my dad had a very affluent job. He was an administrative manager in one of the largest companies in Ahmedabad, and we had very good upbringing, our educational background and all of that, married into a very nice family. So, the biggest shock was taking public transportation here and going to these faraway locations. One train ride and two bus rides to reach to this location, and working long hours and, pretty much, first two years of my Chicago life, not a single day passed where I did not miss my parents and I did not cry. But I did not give up hope in the almighty God either that my day will come. So, while I was working at this factory, I was determined to get my teaching certificate, activate it, make inquiries. It was very tough because in those days, we used to go to the board of education inaudible, I had such bad experiences. Nobody would pause to make me understand step by step how to apply. It was very difficult. This was not that time where you could Google information. So, to go to this faraway location was like a huge journey. People were not very helpful. And yet, I did not give up. So, while I was expecting my second son, was born August ’85, while I was expecting him, I not only got all my credentials evaluated, but I had everything entered into the Board of Education, Chicago Board of Education system. And, to my joy, I had all the teaching certificates that people here had to work so hard to get. Even like one certificate. I had Type 3, Type 4, Type 9, high school English, I had Urdu bilingual certificate, Gujrati bilingual certificate, ESL certificate, I mean, I was like this powerhouse, and when my son was born, I started getting phone calls. They were offering me full-time jobs, I left my, just two days before my due date, I left my factory work and my job and knew that I was not going to go back there, because I had my teaching certificate in my hand. So, job offers started coming in, I started getting these phone calls which would bring tears of joy in my eyes. So what happened was, the first job offer was when my son was only going to be 24 days old. And, I was having this, I had this boy, my second child, after eight and a half years, and I was not going to leave a 24-day old kid to go work somewhere. Because, in the meantime, my husband had found a job in a nice company. So I rejected their offer. The second one came, a third one came, and I knew that this is it, I’m definitely going to end up working. So when my younger son Suleman was five months old and my parents were with my younger sister in Ohio, my husband and I decided that I should take this job opportunity and, if my mom agreed, my parents agreed to stay with me. And they willingly packed everything at my sister’s place. They came here, they joined me so that they would stay home with my five-month-old son, and I started working exactly January 6th, 1986. My journey with CPS began in January ’86. 00:00:00.048 --> 01:11:43.048 [INT]: What a wonderful account of— 00:00:00.049 --> 01:11:43.049 [NU]: And there was no looking back after that. 00:00:00.050 --> 01:11:43.050 [INT]: Well first of all, the persistence. Both in taking a job that was menial compared to what your education had prepared you to do, and secondly, persisting in working through the bureaucracy at the Chicago Public School Board of Education. Very interesting. 00:00:00.051 --> 01:11:43.051 [NU]: It was, I, hate to say this, but I think I would still like to share this that there were some South Asian staff members already working, older than me, working in CPS and, for some very strange reason, I don’t know what sense of insecurity they had, I was not going to take up anybody’s job, but, they, none of them were willing to help me. None of them were willing to help me. So, when I got my teaching jobs because of my background, because of the languages that I spoke, I was certified. Nobody, these South Asian teachers did not tell me that actually I was hot property. If I could speak Gujrati and Urdu and I could get endorsement and I was an ESL teacher, I would be grabbed by so many schools. Nobody informed me about that. So, the day I found out, and the day I started getting these calls, schools offering me jobs based on the credentials, that’s when I realized how much— 00:00:00.052 --> 01:11:43.052 [INT]: How valuable. 00:00:00.053 --> 01:11:43.053 [NU]: How valuable I was. But, at that time, see all the hard times also—I was 32. So, hard times also taught me, I vowed, for as long as I’m alive, I will always go out of my way to help struggling newcomers. No matter what. And my faith in God also allowed me to help everyone because I, by the grace of God, I never felt threatened by any smart person that I was holding hands of, or anyone I was helping, because nobody was going to take away my job, or what I was destined to get. Or what I was destined to accomplish. So, and the rest is history, because I started out on a very happy note, because not only was I grabbed and hired as a Gujrati bilingual teacher in a inaudible setting, but Board of Education quickly picked me, chose me to be the official translator of the Gujrati language. I have translated so many, hundreds of legal documents lots of for Chicago Board of Ed. Now remember, these were the days when we were doing calligraphy. We didn’t have this access to typewriter forget about the Google translation programs. Which now, it is so easy for me to sit and type anything in Gujrati. This is in 1986, ’87, ’88, amnesty. I translated so many legal documents for the Board of Ed. So, I was, all of a sudden, overnight, I became this Gujrati representative for the city of Chicago. I represented the whole, entire Gujrati community in city of Chicago. I became their official translator. I took care of the extracurricular activities, so I got this joy in just encouraging. I would always rope in a couple of mom volunteers to help me with, but I was, I gave away my time, I devoted my time to prepare these children so that they could showcase their cultural background through dandiya raas. And so we performed practically every year at CPS, any big event at CPS. We were invited and I would take the group and go. 00:00:00.054 --> 01:11:43.054 [INT]: And luckily, we had the chance to enjoy your student dancers. 00:00:00.055 --> 01:11:43.055 [NU]: Yeah, thanks to you, you also invited us. So, we brought our students. 00:00:00.056 --> 01:11:43.056 [INT]: Which school did you accept a position at initially? 00:00:00.057 --> 01:11:43.057 [NU]: So, what happened was that I got this call from Hibbard school, and a teacher named Mussarat Khan was going away on a maternity leave. And she was both Urdu and Gujrati endorsed and so was I. So, I was invited go and sub for her for at least three months. But what is, it gives me goosebumps, relating this story, every time I think about that. Her late husband, Arif Khan, was teaching at Bateman school. And when my oldest sister-in-law migrated to this country with two boys, her older son was in eighth grade and one day he came home from Bateman school and told me, Aunty Naseem, will you talk to my teacher, Mr. Khan? Because mummy won’t know English. So, I said, Okay. So when I started talking to Mr. Khan, Arif Khan, his name was Arif Khan, he listened to me for a while and answered some questions and then says, Your English is very good. Are you educated? And I told him about, quickly, briefly my education background and what I was—so the first question was, “What are you doing?” And I said that I’m working in this factory. He is the man, God bless his soul, he said, Tomorrow, you’re not going to go to that factory. I’m giving you this address and you’re going to go to this place and start working on your certification. And two years later, by the time I was ready to take a teaching appointments. It was his wife who was expecting, and I ended up getting my first job to replace his wife. He died at a very young age of 50, a massive cardiac arrest while at Board of Education on Pershing Road. He died very young. My angel, my guardian angel, who helped me. 00:00:00.058 --> 01:11:43.058 [INT]: He lived a very important life— 00:00:00.059 --> 01:11:43.059 [NU]: And not only my immediate family, but my extended family, my husband’s family members, my family members, our siblings, they were all so grateful to him for holding my hand when I needed somebody to hold my hand. Just guide me. True angel. That’s when I vowed that I will be that angel to as many people as possible. 00:00:00.060 --> 01:11:43.060 [INT]: Very interesting that the people working at the Board of Education were indifferent or unhelpful to you, and that this man— 00:00:00.061 --> 01:11:43.061 [NU]: Being South Asian, he was the only person who by chance came into my life through my nephew. Parent-teacher conference. So when I went to Hibbard school, I was this very talkative, friendly young teacher and so excited doing what I was doing and working as a Gujrati bilingual pull out teacher. I was following her, she left a few lesson plans, but, the principal, Helen Mars went out of her way to assign a couple of people to show me how to use a certain props here in this country that I was not familiar with back home. But, teaching just came so naturally to me. And, I had no idea about any kind of audits in this country because, I was to, remember, I was supposed to work as a day-to-day sub for a while until I got my first good job. But this was like filling for Mrs. Khan who was going away for three continuous months. And so what happened was, there was a State, huge State, those audits in those days were very serious business. So, huge State audit and I was observed by a group of people. I was observed by a group of people sitting in a corner while I was teaching my pull out, I think it was a kindergarten class, 16 of them, and I was doing what came so naturally to me. And, at the end of the day, this ESL coordinator came running to my classroom and said, Naseem, whatever you were doing in this room, oh my God, those auditors won’t stop talking about it to Helen Mars, to the principal of the school. So, that’s when I realized, I had clicked, I had arrived. So, I knew that I had to continue doing what I was doing and more. And, at the end of the three months when I was, I knew that it was a Friday, afternoon, and that was the last day of my job. And I didn’t know what I would do on Monday and where I would go. And past noon, like in the afternoon, the principal of this school paged me and the district supervisor, Graciela Shelley, was sitting in the office and they were both beaming with joy and looking at each other’s faces and I, I didn’t know what to do, because that was my last day, pretty much. So, they announced that on Monday, I was supposed to report to Peterson school very close by. And they had created a Gujrati bilingual position for me so I could go and work there. So, I ended up going to Peterson for the rest of the year, and I worked at Peterson until June 1990, at Peterson school. June 1990 is when I moved to Volta Elementary School. And I retired from Volta Elementary School June of 2015. So the rest of the years were-- So they created a hub for me. They would bus Gujrati students from Hibbard school and Gujrati students from Volta school, and I was, but I was stationed at Peterson school. So, the Peterson students and the Hibbard school and Volta school students were all bussed. And I was stationed at Peterson school and I was their Gujrati bilingual teacher. But one year, when I returned back to school, I was told that they had stopped bussing. Volta was supposed to now keep their Gujrati students, Hibbard would keep their own students. And I was left with like two Gujrati students and I went to the principal, my principal, and I said that, I don’t have any students, so can I go to at least one of these two schools? And Volta school principal, Dr. Nancy Wallace, was more than eager to take me. So, can I go? And, my principal from Peterson school said, No. She said she would use my Urdu bilingual certificate but she didn’t want to let go of me. She wanted me to continue teaching at her school. And I was, I had full-time job, but I was not very happy because I thought I belonged, as a native Gujrati, I belonged to the Gujrati program and I wanted to make a difference in the Gujrati community also. And I wanted to go beyond the call of duty and work and do some community work. So, it took her almost two whole years to finally make up her mind. And then, she released me, allowed me to go, on one condition, that I would keep my older son for another year, he was going to graduate that following year. So, she said that, “You can go but you’re not going to take Salim with you.” And I said, “No, Salim will graduate from Peterson school, I won’t do that to him, but thank-you so much.” And that’s when I joined June 1990, is when I joined Volta school. 00:00:00.062 --> 01:11:43.062 [INT]: And your years at Volta gave you an opportunity to work with hundreds of students. 00:00:00.063 --> 01:11:43.063 [NU]: Hundreds and hundreds. So, I can proudly state that when I joined Volta school, within a year or two, it became like a port of entry for all the undocumented Gujrati families. Because, word of mouth publicity was so strong in those days, that families that were migrating to other states, like Arizona, and Tennessee, and New Jersey, and Louisiana, they would come looking for a one-bedroom apartment. The sponsors would send them, ship them out to Volta neighborhood, Albany Park neighborhood, so that they could send their children to Volta school where Naseem Umar would register them, enroll them, and teach them and take care of other stuff as well. 00:00:00.064 --> 01:11:43.064 [INT]: So, in a sense, your school became, not an official sanctuary, but a nurturing environment for those children. 00:00:00.065 --> 01:11:43.065 [NU]: Safe environment. Oh absolutely. We called it a port of entry for the Gujrati community. There were so many agents coming with undocumented children without their parents, I don’t know if you want to keep this, but, they would arrive at O’Hare airport and come to their relatives or some contacts on Lawrence Avenue, around Volta school, walking distance from Volta school. And they would come, and we would just enroll them, and no questions asked. I knew part of the, having translated so many legal documents also, I knew their rights and in the absence of addresses, and in the absence of Social Security numbers, they still had a right to education. And I facilitated that. 00:00:00.066 --> 01:11:43.066 [INT]: So, what was the reason for families coming without documentation that you learned about? 00:00:00.067 --> 01:11:43.067 [NU]: Most of them had very small pieces of land left back home and lack of irrigation and, so how long would—if the land was owned by, say, grandfather and then given away to, say, three or four sons, and then after dividing and dividing and further, making cuts, I think future was not very bright for them in their farmlands. Because, most of the students we received at Volta school were not from huge metros like Bombay and Delhi and Chennai. They were all from remote villages of Gujrat. And, I hardly, Urdu speaking population was always very low. Very low compared to our Gujrati speaking population. Initially, initial years my largest population, close to 90% of my Gujrati students were Hindus. But after they built Makki Masjid after 2005 or so, on the corner of Kimball and Ainslie, our Gujrati Muslim community members started moving in that area. So that’s how our Gujrati Muslim population also went up and kind of balanced. 00:00:00.068 --> 01:11:43.068 [INT]: Is Albany Park still an area where there are numerous Gujrati Muslims? 00:00:00.069 --> 01:11:43.069 [NU]: Oh absolutely, because of the presence of that Makki Masjid, that mosque that was built there. Huge population. And in fact, it is growing. Because they bought a church next door, so they are expanding their facility. 00:00:00.070 --> 01:11:43.070 [INT]: Since there are many other Gujrati Muslims in the area, there’s a community of support for them within their ethnic and religious identity. But what about the rest of the community? 00:00:00.071 --> 01:11:43.071 [NU]: My background was, even though I was a Muslim, I end up working with predominantly Hindu community. And it gave me so much pride and joy that, most of the community members, I don’t want to sound like I’m bragging, but they almost like hero-worship, there was blind faith that they put in me. They would do exactly as I would ask them to do. They would follow my instructions, they would, they trusted me with their private lives, with their details of their personal problems, they entrusted me with their children, they never had to worry about anything while I was still around. They would come looking for me. And, it gave me so much pride that when they would find out that I’m a Muslim, it was my opportunity for them to know that this is how a real Muslim is supposed to conduct himself or herself. And that’s what I, I wanted my sons to grow up. It is, I would always tell my sons that, “You are Papa and my extension. So, wherever you go, the way you behave, people should know who we are and how we raised you.” Because I’m my parents’ extension, this is how my parents raised me. 00:00:00.072 --> 01:11:43.072 [INT]: What are your sons doing now? 00:00:00.073 --> 01:11:43.073 [NU]: Both of my sons are doctors. My older son is a pathologist, he’s working in a hospital in Boynton Beach area in Florida, specializing in cancer. And my younger son who was born here is a pulmonary critical care doctor, out in Wisconsin. And I’m very proud to say that both of them turned out to be very fine, law-abiding, young men. They are pretty religious, very pious, young men. And very dedicated to their families, to their profession. 00:00:00.074 --> 01:11:43.074 [INT]: Are they both married? 00:00:00.075 --> 01:11:43.075 [NU]: They’re both married, they both have a son and a daughter. My daughters-in-law are the daughters that I never had. I feel very proud to be their mother. 00:00:00.076 --> 01:11:43.076 [INT]: How old are the grandchildren? primary education is starting from Montessori to first standard, we had several vernacular groups, classes, in between. So, for four years after Montessori, I was at a local Gujarati school, local Parsi school, primarily for girls. And, so they would that take boys until they were about 8 or 9 years of age and then we moved on to a boy’s school. And so, I was there at the Parsi school, our community school, close to where we lived, for four years till I was age of 8 or so. And then moved on to another same kind of school, missionary school, called the Don Bosco High School. St. John Don Bosco. And they had a school that was newly opened, when I first started there. And that's where I graduated from high school, we call that secondary school certificate, SSC, at that time. So, that is my earlier scholastic life. inaudible 00:00:00.077 --> 01:11:43.077 [NU]: My oldest one is 3, then his sister is just going to turn 1 on May 22nd. And my younger son’s son is only 11 months apart. She’s like five months old. 00:00:00.078 --> 01:11:43.078 [INT]: So they’re very delightful little people for their grandmother to visit. 00:00:00.079 --> 01:11:43.079 [NU]: My favorite pastime with them is reading stories to them. Both of my sons took pride in the fact that both of their parents were public servants. My husband worked in a civilian job for the Chicago Police Department and I worked for Chicago Public Schools. So, very dedicated public servants. Very often our non-Asian friends, especially at my husband’s workplace, the sergeants would want to know his background and all of that. We would always proudly say that we came to this country with two suitcases in our hands, with the goal of succeeding and we were determined to raise our children to be law-abiding young people here. And we succeeded. Sheer hard work. 00:00:00.080 --> 01:11:43.080 [INT]: How is the current atmosphere in the wider society regarding Muslims seen by you and people in your community? 00:00:00.081 --> 01:11:43.081 [NU]: As far as my relationship with my Gujrati community at workplace, nothing changed. They continued, specifically after 9/11, nothing changed for both, for my husband too and me. The same respect, the same trust continued. But elsewhere, all of a sudden we became, often we would feel self-conscious if we were in our native costume or the way we spoke, or people, the seeds of doubt was sowed in their brains. So, there was subtle. And, amongst the staff members, I could tell right away handful of mainstream American teachers who, not just hated me as a Muslim, but didn’t like immigrants taking over their jobs or, this is, even in teaching field. And resented the fact they had to, there were so many undocumented, not just Indians, there were other undocumented students. But those staff members were like a handful, so they were not going to bring us down. We were so dedicated to our professions, we were so determined, always going the extra mile, beyond the call of duty. 00:00:00.082 --> 01:11:43.082 [INT]: Do you know how many of the undocumented children you taught have finally succeeded in gaining— 00:00:00.083 --> 01:11:43.083 [NU]: Even at Volta school, so many have come back with higher education, even medical doctors. Even medical doctors, even businesses, owning businesses. Yeah, we have seen most of our immigrant population, most of our immigrant students very successful. Married, with children. 00:00:00.084 --> 01:11:43.084 [INT]: And, you assume that along the way, somehow, they have accomplished what was necessary to become legal residents and then citizens. 00:00:00.085 --> 01:11:43.085 [NU]: Oh no absolutely yeah. Because, during my tenure, I translated for amnesty twice. One in the ‘80s, early in the ‘80s, and then the second one was just a few years ago. So, yes, they took care of all the necessary paperwork, and made sure that their legal status had been cleared. 00:00:00.086 --> 01:11:43.086 [INT]: And, you are a citizen now? 00:00:00.087 --> 01:11:43.087 [NU]: Yeah, for us it was mandatory, because I had to go to the immigration office downtown and sign on a document with passport photo, my declaration of intent. That I will be a citizen as soon as I complete five years in this country. So, for me, it was mandatory. My husband did it willingly and my older son too, so. Proud citizens. 00:00:00.088 --> 01:11:43.088 [INT]: You’re all citizens. And of course your younger son was born a citizen. 00:00:00.089 --> 01:11:43.089 [NU]: He was born here. 00:00:00.090 --> 01:11:43.090 [INT]: If you could do something, apart from what you have done, which is remarkable, to help those people who are buying the anti-immigrant publicity right now, what would you do? 00:00:00.091 --> 01:11:43.091 [NU]: I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this, but when we are talking about illegal immigrants, I would want the government to only go after those hardcore criminals. Leave these hardworking, other people, families alone. They may be paying their taxes, they follow the laws of the land, they do jobs that other mainstream Americans may not be able to do. Like migrant farmers. So, don’t target those innocent people who have come from such, oftentimes even poverty, and are working so hard, pulling long hours, give them a chance. Go after, criminals and only criminals, people with criminal background. 00:00:00.092 --> 01:11:43.092 [INT]: I think that that makes excellent sense— 00:00:00.093 --> 01:11:43.093 [NU]: I do understand that the right way of coming is, there’s only one right way of coming and you have to follow the rules and get proper documentation. But, now that they’re here, some of the young people that we are targeting are even born here, they were raised here, they want to go to school here, they’re not committing any crimes, they’re helping their parents with working extra jobs, leave them alone. 00:00:00.094 --> 01:11:43.094 [INT]: I’m very delighted to hear you’re very positive approach to a problem that some of us are shaking our fists at the stars about. And I find it very troubling that there is such thoughtless anti-immigrant, especially anti-Muslim sentiment circulating. 00:00:00.095 --> 01:11:43.095 [NU]: Just because I don’t face it every day, doesn’t mean other people don’t, because I read about it and especially for even Muslim women who cover their hair, insults hurled at them. Not at Volta school where I worked, we were very fortunate thanks to our principal who maintained such atmosphere at the school that little hijabi girls never felt threatened. But, what I read going on at other places, it is sad. And I’m worried for my own grandchildren, I’m worried about my children raising their children in this country. And remember, we are still leaders. Other poor countries, they look up to us for all the goodness and, America was great. Instead of making it great again, we have brought it a few notches down it seems. 00:00:00.096 --> 01:11:43.096 [INT]: Say that again. … What is something apart from your family and your occupation that you have enjoyed? Because you’re living in Chicago. 00:00:00.097 --> 01:11:43.097 [NU]: Apart from my family and my job as a teacher and as a bilingual coordinator, I’m telling you, I got the maximum joy working for the community with the community members, being there for them. Because, working with my community members and making myself available to them was not necessarily part of my job, my teaching job. Or my job as a, I was a parent coordinator, that helped, but I did go beyond the call of duty and that is really staying with me now in my retirement, I’m very, I consider myself very fortunate to be able to go and make a difference in so many lives. This opportunity doesn’t come by every day in everyone’s lives. 00:00:00.098 --> 01:11:43.098 [INT]: But, you seized the opportunity and found satisfaction far more significant— 00:00:00.099 --> 01:11:43.099 [NU]: And, I was also often in the position to mentor younger teachers, and one thing, that role I enjoyed. Unofficial mentor, and mothering and mentoring younger people. And one thing I always said in the field of education is that, if you are here because you need a job, it’s a big mistake. Don’t work at a school because you need a job and a paycheck. Work at a school because you want to shape those young lives. You have to be so passionate about what you’re doing. If you are here only for a job because you need the money to run your house, take some other job. Work somewhere else. 00:00:00.100 --> 01:11:43.100 [INT]: You value education more than whatever possible financial reward is, it could provide. 00:00:00.101 --> 01:11:43.101 [NU]: Oh absolutely. I was a very little girl and I used to play with dolls and I was the only one in my society, amongst my peers who played teacher, teacher. And I was always the teacher, to all of my younger siblings and my cousins and my friends. I wanted to be a teacher ever since I was a little girl. And I was very fortunate to be able to teach in India for three years and eight years I taught Gujrati students in this country. Eight years. And then in ’94, February ’94, my principal offered me this job of being a fulltime bilingual coordinator and taking care of, not just Indian immigrants, but other immigrants as well. And I enjoyed that job also very much because I was full-time parent coordinator also. 00:00:00.102 --> 01:11:43.102 [INT]: Full-time what? 00:00:00.103 --> 01:11:43.103 [NU]: Parent coordinator. Working with parents. Translating for them. But I had to coordinate activities not just for Gujrati parents, I had to expand it in my new role as a bilingual coordinator and a parent coordinator. I started working with other bilingual parents, other immigrant parents too. Part of my job is to connect our parent body with other resources in the neighborhood, invite speakers at the parents’ meetings, provide translations in several languages at those parents’ meetings, provide entertainment, snacks, refreshment, everything. 00:00:00.104 --> 01:11:43.104 [INT]: Tell me a little bit more about Albany Park, that’s where Volta school—I assume you live nearby. 00:00:00.105 --> 01:11:43.105 [NU]: Albany Park is so multi-lingual, multi-ethnic, it’s a true melting pot. You should go visit. I was a part of Albany Park Neighborhood Council, which is now known as Communities United. And I was their board member for several years. And the director, Jenny Arwade, who started out as one of the aides there and then ended up being, was promoted to being the director for many years when I was on the board. That’s when I realized how closely, it’s a community organization, and they do community organizing. And I worked with them very closely, and they opened so many doors for me to educate our Indian community members. Also the Gujrati community, I used to translate for them, taking out, going on rallies, for different causes, mostly-- 00:00:00.106 --> 01:11:43.106 [INT]: What were some of the causes that you were— 00:00:00.107 --> 01:11:43.107 [NU]: Mostly it was housing because in Albany Park when they started converting those apartment buildings into condos, expensive condos. Albany Park Neighborhood Council wanted to somehow put a ceiling to that, cannot convert each and every apartment building, where will these citizens go? So that was one of the issues, the other was of course, illegal immigrants. Because besides our Gujrati inaudible a large percentage of Mexican population, also undocumented and their rights and responsibilities. So, I worked very closely with the community organizers also. 00:00:00.108 --> 01:11:43.108 [INT]: So you made friends who were from other immigrant communities during that— 00:00:00.109 --> 01:11:43.109 [NU]: Yes. And realize how our problems were similar across the border. Common concerns, common worries. 00:00:00.110 --> 01:11:43.110 [INT]: If someone were moving to Chicago, what would be advice that you would give them? 00:00:00.111 --> 01:11:43.111 [NU]: First of all, I always told new immigrant parents that, look, living in Chicago, starting out a new life in Chicago is a bit easier compared to other cities, because of our transport system. Transportation system. And, I would always tell them, Indian parents, that the groceries are not very expensive. You can always buy groceries at reasonable prices and cook at home and save some money. And housing is also, our Indian families, contrary to the laws set, one bedroom should only house x number of people, our families were so used to living in cramped up apartments to save some money. So, they, two, three families would live together, relatives. Like the brother’s family and the sister’s family would all temporarily, even for a short period when they first came. And that’s how they would save some money to eventually go buy a business or at least be partner in some business. 00:00:00.112 --> 01:11:43.112 [INT]: What enables people to live with so many others peacefully? 00:00:00.113 --> 01:11:43.113 [NU]: Because it’s a very common trend back home, extended family. When sons grow older and daughters were normally married off and sent away to their respective homes. But when the sons got married, one by one, they would still continue living with their parents. And that’s how they would live in an extended family setup. And, would be so used to having all the children grow up together. So, when they sponsored their family members here, one family sponsored couple of other families and their children, for them it was not difficult at all. Initially, living together, and eating together, and going to school together, kids would go to school together. 00:00:00.114 --> 01:11:43.114 [INT]: And I believe you mentioned that you had that experience with your sister-in-law— 00:00:00.115 --> 01:11:43.115 [NU]: Yeah, for instance, we stayed with her. When we came to New York, it was my sister who helped us, we were there for a year. And then when they moved to inaudible Ohio, we decided to move to Chicago because then we were left all by ourselves. So, my husband thought, why not come to Chicago where the rest of his family was settled. So, yes, my husband’s sister helped us initially, we lived with her for a while, and then when my oldest sister-in-law migrated, she lived with me for a while in my one-bedroom apartment with her two boys and husband. So that’s how, it was very common for families staying with each other for a while, until they found a place of their own. 00:00:00.116 --> 01:11:43.116 [INT]: Do you find that your household feels lonely now without many relatives living with you? 00:00:00.117 --> 01:11:43.117 [NU]: We were very fortunate because my husband’s, six of his siblings were living very close where you could drive and meet, so we pretty much raised our kids together, family, sleepovers, weekend sleepovers, family gatherings, potlucks. In fact, we were so many of us, we did not even need to socialize with outside friends. And the only time we started feeling, my husband and I started feeling lonely is when we became empty nesters, because first my older one was gone when he was 20 and then taking care of his medical school, and then his residency, and then his fellowships and all of that. So, he would come as a visitor, but not to live with us. And then my younger one left, so when we became empty nesters, that is the only reason why we are feeling a bit lonely in the house. But, it is very common for us to routinely go visit our siblings for a cup of chai, which is so common, like weekends we would get together. Even now we do that. My husband and I both are retired now, so we have a lot of time around the house. We travel a lot, we try to go spend a lot of time with our children. One is in Milwaukee, but he keeps coming often. He drives a lot and brings his children over, so we don’t actually go and stay with him, whereas the older one stays so far away. At least two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, we go and stay with them. 00:00:00.118 --> 01:11:43.118 [INT]: I believe that the Muslim month of Ramadan is coming. Are you observing that? 00:00:00.119 --> 01:11:43.119 [NU]: Yeah, I’m very fortunate to let you know that actually I’m travelling to Saudi Arabia on the 27th for the whole month of Ramadan. This is my fourth such trip, so I’ll be there for the entire month. We’ll be turning back when the month is over, on Eid or the day after Eid. And once I’m there, it’s like, leaving all my world and my worldly thoughts and desires behind me. It’s just spiritual awakening once you’re there just praying and resting and praying and resting and fasting. 00:00:00.120 --> 01:11:43.120 [INT]: And during that time, you visit the Kaaba? 00:00:00.121 --> 01:11:43.121 [NU]: Yes, we will be fulfilling all the publications, fulfilling, performing an Umrah, which is not Hajj, but it is an obligatory requirement if one has a means to do so. So, we’ll be going to Mecca to perform Umrah and then, 20 days we’ll be in Mecca and then we’ll go to Medina. And for Eid, we’ll be in Medina, 10 days in Medina. 00:00:00.122 --> 01:11:43.122 [INT]: And during this time, you eat only before sunrise and after sunset right? 00:00:00.123 --> 01:11:43.123 [NU]: Yes, we will stop eating pre-dawn. And then we eat, we break the fast at sunset, all 30 days. But your body gets so used to it, I’m really so excited and all packed and ready to go. Looking forward to the holy month. And, out of 12 months, it’s nice in a way that I can set aside this one whole month. I’m praying, I’m supposed to be praying, and I do pray around the year, 24/7, but this whole month is like set aside where you really stop your thinking about your world, responsibilities, and desires, and family members, and all, it connect with almighty God and just keep praying, meditating and praying. 00:00:00.124 --> 01:11:43.124 [INT]: If this is your fourth time, it means that it’s been a very rewarding experience. 00:00:00.125 --> 01:11:43.125 [NU]: Very, very. And also very fortunate, because, to begin, it’s an expensive trip, but often times, they say that even people who can afford to go, won’t go until almighty God beckons you. Unless he calls you. So, I may not have enough means to travel, and yet, if I’m the chosen one, then somehow, I’ll be able to go. So, I’m very fortunate. It’s a blessing. 00:00:00.126 --> 01:11:43.126 [INT]: I’m sure participating in this enriches you in ways that someone who’s never engaged in that kind of committed devotion could imagine. 00:00:00.127 --> 01:11:43.127 [NU]: It is very devoted. You get the inner peace, your time to beg for forgiveness for everything that you, not knowingly or maybe you have done unknowingly that you are not supposed to do, so it’s your time to completely connect with almighty God. And also sit and thank him for all the blessings. 00:00:00.128 --> 01:11:43.128 [INT]: It sounds like a very special opportunity and to be able to take advantage of that is, is something that I’m sure your family is blessed by. For sure. And your husband will travel with you. 00:00:00.129 --> 01:11:43.129 [NU]: Yes, this is our fourth time, both of us. 00:00:00.130 --> 01:11:43.130 [INT]: And you’ve travelled together each time. 00:00:00.131 --> 01:11:43.131 [NU]: We both went to perform Hujj in 2005, but for the last like four years, this is our fourth trip. Last five years. So, very blessed. … 00:00:00.132 --> 01:11:43.132 [INT]: I don’t know if there’s something else that you would like to say, but I feel so fortunate to have had the opportunity. 00:00:00.133 --> 01:11:43.133 [NU]: Well, you were so persistent and I tried to dodge you for such a long time, and finally you got hold of me. 00:00:00.134 --> 01:11:43.134 [INT]: I guess, maybe, you’ve really addressed this in some other ways about how you feel privileged, as it seems by your experiences to represent Gujrati Muslims in the community. Would you comment a little bit, could you comment about that? 00:00:00.135 --> 01:11:43.135 [NU]: I, as I said, by always conducting myself in a way that would put parents at ease, all parents, whether they were Muslims or Hindus, I would go the extra mile to help them out, every time they approached me for any kind of assistance. But as a Muslim lady, I felt very fortunate to be able to model a certain behavior for other Muslim community members as well. 00:00:00.136 --> 01:11:43.136 [INT]: What do you observe of young people, young Muslim people and their behavior now. Do you see the same values— 00:00:00.137 --> 01:11:43.137 [NU]: Yeah, that I can say, Muslim parents, young parents also who migrated to this country, and as they started raising their children here, they tried to be very devout Muslims for the same reason that I became devout and Godfearing because, there’s this lingering fear of losing your child to the negative side of this society, to the elements. Young Muslim parents are very careful in their own behavior patterns, they try to instill Islam in their children, and, like me—I just see young me in them. The simple goal of succeeding in this country while raising law-abiding citizens. That is so important to these young Muslim parents, especially when they see what happens to these teenagers who are influenced by some elements and end up getting in trouble with the FBI and with other sources, so, yeah parents have become more vigilant now. 00:00:00.138 --> 01:11:43.138 [INT]: From your point of view, the role of the parents and the teachers, the roles of parents and teachers are very very critical in nurturing that— 00:00:00.139 --> 01:11:43.139 [NU]: Very critical. Our parents, when I was growing up, never had these kinds of worries that we had when we were raising our children. Because, I think we were raised in a very safe environment. My mom never had to worry what time I returned back from my friend’s house past midnight, on my bicycle. My only worry was being chased by a stray dog, back home. Here it was like, if I was, my husband and I, if we are taking afternoon nap, we would still not let our young son take his bike and go by himself to the park. It’s not a very safe society that we are raising our children in. And when you were asking about Albany Park, one of the other issues beside immigration and housing, safety and security was their prime concern. Because, whether they were Muslim parents or Hindu parents, whether they were Indian parents or Mexican parents, they were always worried about their adolescent kids joining the gangs, or being influenced by the gang activity. So, in Albany Park, that was one of the biggest concern. Safety and security. In the school, around the school, in the neighborhood, around the neighborhood. 00:00:00.140 --> 01:11:43.140 [INT]: Did you have any personal encounters with gang members? 00:00:00.141 --> 01:11:43.141 [NU]: No, I was very fortunate, never. Neither did my sons. 00:00:00.142 --> 01:11:43.142 [INT]: Fortunately. 00:00:00.143 --> 01:11:43.143 [NU]: Very fortunate. Actually, at Volta school, at my school, we did not have any gang activities, that’s why. We were very fortunate, and the administrators were very vigilant all the time, and we were always looking out for negative elements to eliminate, so yeah, we never had any such problems even as a school. Like, we never had to install a metal detector at our school. Never had to. Even during those days where so many schools received one, we never had one. We never needed one. We do have a security camera at all the doors, from where parents enter and exit, people enter and exit, but that’s about it. 00:00:00.144 --> 01:11:43.144 [INT]: Is anything that you would like to say to non-Muslim, non-Gujrati, non-Indian people. 00:00:00.145 --> 01:11:43.145 [NU]: This is indeed a land of opportunity. We have to know one thing, people in general need to know that immigrants, when they come to this country, they form a patch of that huge quilt. So, as much as we say that we are a melting pot, melting pot, I would always say that, No, I’m this colorful patch. Like for example my Gujrati community is one colorful, or my Muslim community is one colorful patch of that huge, beautiful quilt called United States of America. So we don’t take away any beauty of this country, we contribute to this country, in a very positive way. 00:00:00.146 --> 01:11:43.146 [INT]: Those of us who aren’t fortunate enough to have been born in another part of the world have the pleasure of warming under that quilt. 00:00:00.147 --> 01:11:43.147 [NU]: Exactly. Yeah, in a way that’s true, yes. So, I always say that, like we are part of this quilt, and we are very beautiful inside out, because we come with some values from back home. The way we were raised, and all of that. And we come and we contribute to this society in a positive way. And, most of us, we also are determined to raise our children to be law abiding citizens. So, if you work very hard, with dedication, and honesty, and loyalty of course, you do succeed. Hard work pays off, definitely. 00:00:00.148 --> 01:11:43.148 [INT]: It sounds like you are very respectful also, of all of the people who have enabled you to accomplish what you have, and who have fortunately been students in your classes or participated in your programs. You want to say just a couple of things about the folk dance which your students participated in. 00:00:00.149 --> 01:11:43.149 [NU]: Yeah, so as a Muslim person, I was not raised doing the traditional Hindu, Gujrati folk dances like dandiya raas and garba. But, the students that were sitting in front of me in ‘80s when I first started working full time in Chicago Public Schools, they were all Patel kids, 99% of them, and they were all Hindu Patels and the girls would be all excited during Navratri. And as soon as I found out, that was my very first year teaching at Hibbard school, when I found out that there was, that so many ethnic, traditional folk dances were represented except for Gujrati. So then, I took it upon myself and I said that, “Okay, I will rope in a couple of my Hindu moms who would help me coach those students.” But at least, the least I could do was sponsor a folk dance, and open up this door of opportunity for the students to showcase their background. Cultural background. And the kids and the family members and the parents were so excited and so, first year, I got this free bus to take my parents and students to go perform at parents’ meeting downtown. So, we got invited another time, the following year, and then the following year. And then we started getting invitations for, from various other agencies like Salvation Army, and police department, and people who came across me or found out through other, through our school, that we have nice dance troupe. I was always asked that, people would always think, outsiders would think that I have a dance academy, and I would just feel so special because imagine, forget about owning a dance academy, I was not even raised doing this dance. I didn’t know anything about this dance. But, I made myself, made time for my students. And I made myself available for the students, and the joy on their faces, they ended up performing two, three times a year. And, every time I got invited outside of the school, they would offer us free busses and free lunches for the students, and stipend for me. And the stipend that I used to get for me, I did not spend on me, and I would collect the stipend and every time I travelled back home, I would pick these nice, colorful, costumes for my boys and girls, so that they would wear with a shining stars when they perform at various locations. So, that was like my contribution to my student body. And the Gujrati community, the parents really appreciated it, they really liked it, that I— 00:00:00.150 --> 01:11:43.150 [INT]: And, this was a special way in which you connected with the Hindu Gujrati community as well. 00:00:00.151 --> 01:11:43.151 [NU]: Absolutely. 00:00:00.152 --> 01:11:43.152 [INT]: Did you, yourself learn to enjoy the folk dancing? 00:00:00.153 --> 01:11:43.153 [NU]: I just liked the rhythm of the songs and everything, but it was mostly my older students. inaudible because my student dancers would change particularly every year, because the older students would graduate that year at the end of the year, but then I would take the new ones from 6th or 5th grade. So, I always had new students with the older ones, and the older ones would end up teaching the newer ones. And I was, my parents, I made many, many, many friends throughout my career and these moms, these women would devote so much time to me, even on weekends they would accompany me. If I was taking these students to a faraway location, these moms would go with me. So even, I had those moms, and even, they kept changing every four, five years because then they got busy doing other things. But then, some other women would come along and so I had opportunities of making connections 30 long years. 30 years, I did this. Tirelessly. 00:00:00.154 --> 01:11:43.154 [INT]: How very enriching. 00:00:00.155 --> 01:11:43.155 [NU]: Very enriching. 00:00:00.156 --> 01:11:43.156 [INT]: Naseem, I can only thank you so much for being so generous. I could talk with you for many more hours, I'm sure. But, I’m looking forward to other people sharing this wonderful story of your experiences coming to the United States, and bringing your ambition and determination, and your caring for others. And I hope that you have many more years to enjoy— 00:00:00.157 --> 01:11:43.157 [NU]: Yeah. I think these initial experiences, kind of bad experiences also, were good in a way that they helped shape me who I am today. 00:00:00.158 --> 01:11:43.158 [INT]: And strengthen you. 00:00:00.159 --> 01:11:43.159 [NU]: Yes. 00:00:00.160 --> 01:11:43.160 [INT]: Which all of us need. 00:00:00.161 --> 01:11:43.161 [NU]: At least, opened my eyes and made me realize that I had to be a better person, and strive to be a better human being. 00:00:00.162 --> 01:11:43.162 [INT]: Well, the world is lucky to have you **laughs** 00:00:00.163 --> 01:11:43.163 [NU]: You’re very generous with your comments. 00:00:00.164 --> 01:11:43.164 [INT]: Thank-you so much. 00:00:00.165 --> 01:11:43.165 [NU]: I don’t even know how this has turned out. Are you going to edit some portions or, how does it work?