WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 01:56:35.000 [SHILPA RUPANI]: Can you please state and spell your name? 00:00:00.001 --> 01:56:35.001 [SUJAYA RUPANI]: S u j a y a, Sujaya. Last name, Rupani, r u p a n i. 00:00:00.002 --> 01:56:35.002 [SR]: Where and when were you born? 00:00:00.003 --> 01:56:35.003 [SUJAYA]: I was born in India in the state of Andhra Pradesh in a town called Guntur, g u n t u r. July 9th 1954. 00:00:00.004 --> 01:56:35.004 [SR]: What languages did you speak growing up? 00:00:00.005 --> 01:56:35.005 [SUJAYA]: Telugu, my mother tongue, and of course Hindi, with the Hydrabadi dialect, and English, the medium of instruction, and bits and pieces of Tamil and Bhojpuri, so on. 00:00:00.006 --> 01:56:35.006 [SR]: How would you describe your experiences growing up? 00:00:00.007 --> 01:56:35.007 [SUJAYA]: Okay, my experience growing up was just beautiful. Wonderful childhood with lots of lots of friends and my vivid memories of playing outside. 00:00:00.008 --> 01:56:35.008 [SR]: Want me to pause it? (audio interruption) 00:00:00.009 --> 01:56:35.009 [SUJAYA]: We were just the two of us in the family, my sister and me. But growing up we had lots and lots of friends in the neighborhood and we all played outside, and outdoor games. And that was the norm for those times. the games were like, long call short call, you guys call it tag, and we had other-- you call them five stones, hopscotch, you name it and we did--and of course, the organized games were like basketball, throw ball, and (inaudible). And so, was a beautiful childhood, and growing up days, my teenage years and college days were just wonderful, filled with joy and lots of learning. And, I guess school experience was a little different for us because it changed up to, it used to be called up to 12th grade, high school. 00:00:00.010 --> 01:56:35.010 But, as we came to 10th grade, the whole system changed, it became 10 + 2. So, we were the first batch, or the experimental batch for this change and after which, of course, we went to medical school with an--we called it an entrance exam or test that we had to take. So, that was childhood. And we also had lots of cousins that we grew up with and, of course, which is a little unusual in India was that I grew up in a nuclear family, just dad, mom, my sister, and me. But we had lots of cousins who came to visit us because we lived in the city of Hyderabad, and the cousins came from villages. 00:00:00.011 --> 01:56:35.011 And we went on vacations, like how kids go to farms here, we went to the village for summer experiences, besides traveling in India, that was one of the most unusual and rich experience for us, to experience rural life for my sister and me. And of course, there were lots of cousins there too with--and then India being so diverse, even the food was different, even though it was the same state, the food in the villages was different from what we're used to in the cities. So, the experience was very, very nice and I'm still in touch with my childhood friends and my cousins. 00:00:00.012 --> 01:56:35.012 [SR]: What got you emotional as you were thinking about some of your childhood experiences? 00:00:00.013 --> 01:56:35.013 [SUJAYA]: I guess it's nostalgia and I guess as you get older that's what you do, so. 00:00:00.014 --> 01:56:35.014 [SR]: Is there anything in particular you were thinking about that was bringing up-- 00:00:00.015 --> 01:56:35.015 [SUJAYA]: Yes, of course friends and luckily all of them are alive, now. But, it is touching because, you know, with my dad gone and the other two uncles who we were close to, so mortality kind of, you know, makes you emotional. 00:00:00.016 --> 01:56:35.016 [SR]: What religion did your family practice when you were growing up? 00:00:00.017 --> 01:56:35.017 [SUJAYA]: It’s Hindu, primarily. But, I went to a Christian school, and it was a Protestant school, so we had assemblies in the morning and I loved it, absolutely loved it. Because I think, it gave us discipline and it gave us also a sense of humility and it inculcated spirituality in us. And also singing the hymns and everything, so that was the exposure to Christianity firsthand. And being from the city of Hyderabad and we grew up so closely with Muslims, and we were exposed to that too. So, even though I grew up Hindu, the exposure to Christianity and Islam was a great influence on us, growing up. 00:00:00.018 --> 01:56:35.018 [SR]: Can you can you kind of expend on that and how you feel like it influenced you? Aside from it just being around you? 00:00:00.019 --> 01:56:35.019 [SUJAYA]: Yeah, because still I feel like, you know, we acted in the Christian place, and then come December first, the hymns would all go to Christmas carols, during our assembly time. And we all kids used to--it was pretty much mandatory for us to get to the assembly, because you would be marked tardy if you didn't go to the assembly time. And we all had to have our braids, and the braids had to be folded up and ribbons, and then we had to have shoes on, and it was a very—and uniform too, of course. So, it was a very strict way, so it inculcated in me a sense of discipline and a sense of a way to dress in certain places. So, that was my school experience. 00:00:00.020 --> 01:56:35.020 Of course the Christianity other than that, every day one of the teachers would lead the assembly, and there would be a parable and of course, with a moral to it. So that’s another thing, that's how they inculcated the moral signs into us, and that was a Christian influence in us. And, we loved it, we just loved it. And of course, during Christmas time, we all enacted the play, the nativity scene, and lots of, I mean, I got different roles and enjoyed all the different roles. From Joseph, because it was an all-girls school, so we had the male characters as well as the female characters. Then, once I was the three wise men, and then I was the shepherd, and then I was Joseph, and I wasn't Mary anytime, for some reason because, when I was tall, they always give you the male parts, so that was that. And then, the influence of Islam, because our friends, the close friend we had—it was very unusual growing up, because in Hyderabad, we never differentiated between our Muslim friends and Hindu friends. 00:00:00.021 --> 01:56:35.021 Because we went to each other's homes, for all the Hindu festivals, they would come home, and for all the Eids and everything, we would go there. So that's how we were exposed to their culture, their customs, their food habits, and some of my Muslim friends were so open that they even went to the temples with me. The reason being that if they wanted something, you know to request, and, how do you say it, it’s a wish that you ask God, and they would go with me to the temple. And once it's fulfilled, then they would go back to say thanks, again. So that's how we were influenced by each other. 00:00:00.022 --> 01:56:35.022 And, you know, that’s one city which never had riots when we were growing up. We lived so peacefully with each other there, and we didn't see the difference at all between one religion to the other. And then we enjoyed the foods that were, which were distinct to being Hindu or Christian or Muslim. The Muslims ate a lot of the meats, the Christians ate a lot of the bakery, and then we Hindus ate lot of vegetables and of course, we ate the meats too, so that was another influence on my growing up. 00:00:00.023 --> 01:56:35.023 [SR]: Can you talk about your parents a little bit? Can you give their names, and what they did, and just talk about growing up and everything? 00:00:00.024 --> 01:56:35.024 [SUJAYA]: Sure. I was born to Subrahmanya Reddy. My dad, s u b r a h m a n y a, and last name r e d d y. It’s very distinct because the first name is not Subramanyam, it's only Subramanya. That is the difference between the states, if he was born in Tamil Nadu, he would have been Subramanyam. But he’s born in Andhra Pradesh, that's why Subramanya. And it's another name for Kartikeya, the son of Lord Shiva, so he was named after him because my grandma went to that temple and asked for Him, and that's when he came, so she named him after that God. 00:00:00.025 --> 01:56:35.025 And my mom is Anasuya Reddy, is a n a s u y a, last name r e d d y. And my dad belonged to a family of eight, four brothers and four sisters. Mom belonged to a family of five, two brothers and three sisters. Actually six, my mom lost one sister in her teenage years to typhoid. There wasn't any cure for it at that time. And dad came from an agricultural family. He was born in the village of Vengalathur and at that time, there were no schools in the village. So, he had to walk three miles, every single day, each way to attend school and then come back home. Which means that they had breakfast, that they would take some lunch, which was always cold, there were no refrigerators at that time and come back, go home and then eat a meal, early dinner. 00:00:00.026 --> 01:56:35.026 And my grandma would always sit with the boys and girls to serve dinner for them. And, at that time, when she sat with them for dinner, that's when she would instill the values to them. And that really took, for my dad, really went such a long way that he taught us those. Couple things which he always told us was that his mom said, even if you get to eat one meal a day, she said, always be honest and that would make you sleep really well during the night. So, those kind of things. My dad was a great storyteller. Then, he went on to college in the city of Madras at that time, which is called Chennai now, in Tamil Nadu, because the village was closer to the border. And he became a lawyer. 00:00:00.027 --> 01:56:35.027 And then, once the states were separated, after the independence, and the states reorganization, he moved to Andhra Pradesh. He went on to become central government standing counsel, as well as an attorney general, and then retired as a senior counsel in the high court of Andhra Pradesh. So, that's dad, and real honest man, and very, very principled, very habit-prone. And of course, he worked outside, and mom took care of us. My mom was again born in a family where her father was a police inspector in the British times. So, they were taught everything growing up, all sports and even biking, is little unusual for girls in India that time, but she biked, she horse rode, she played tennis, and again, growing up, her childhood was beautiful, she always told us. And they moved to, again, Madras which is Chennai now, in Tamil Nadu. 00:00:00.028 --> 01:56:35.028 She went to college there, and she was an arts graduate. I think my mom and dad met once prior to getting married, on the day that Gandhi-ji was shot, January 30th, I think, 1950. Because, everything was closed and my dad came back from the village after the holidays, he didn't have nowhere to go (inaudible). And so, his friend took him to my mom's house, because he knew my uncle, to have a meal there. And that's where he first saw my mom and her sister just coming back from tennis. So that was her—and she taught us everything that we know right now, in the sense, because we didn't have brothers, she said, you have to be to learn to be independent. 00:00:00.029 --> 01:56:35.029 She taught us swimming, she taught us driving, she taught us how to change tire, she taught us how to change--at that time we used to call the fuse for India bulbs, you know, it was not a switch. You had you had to mechanically open it up, change the wire. She taught us everything that we knew. And so, you know, and nurturing, and in her own way, she was very soft, but at the same time very strict. She had strict timings for our meals, strict timings for our studies, and strict timings for a going out to play and stuff like that. But, it didn't seem hard at all, growing up was easy with her. And studying came easy to me too, so I never gave any grief to them. 00:00:00.030 --> 01:56:35.030 [SR]: Can you talk about any siblings that you had? 00:00:00.031 --> 01:56:35.031 [SUJAYA]: Yes, just one. She was, my sister’s younger than me. Her name is Vinitha, v i n i t h a. She was like a little rebel, as far as I was concerned. I walked a straight line and she would go on a curved line, herself. But, she got into trouble with my mom, not trouble in the sense where my mom had to admonish her, or say that, OK this, if you don’t--studying was not her favorite thing to do, not because she was not bright, but she was always play and have fun and that's how she was. But, she really got serious when she went to college and that's when she aced everything. That's my sister, and she's very, very loyal, very, very helpful, and she'll extend herself if somebody needs some help. 00:00:00.032 --> 01:56:35.032 But, she had a temper too, which can just be really, really hard, so, I gave in to her even growing up. We had some arguments, but I gave in most of the time. So, she had the upper hand in our relationship, always. But we enjoyed each other. She doted on being around my friends, and she was the one who always did things at home, like baking or making desserts. So, anytime my friends would come over to study, and I spent all my time studying, so she would help, if the meal was made, then she'd always make sure my friends would have little something special. So, all my friends knew her too. So, growing up—because, again, there was only year and a half difference between me and her. So, it was a nice relationship. 00:00:00.033 --> 01:56:35.033 [SR]: When did you come to the United States and what brought you here? 00:00:00.034 --> 01:56:35.034 [SUJAYA]: I came October 19th, 1980, United States. And it brought me here because my husband emigrated prior to me. And, of course, we had to, at that time, we just had to wait about 6 months to get a visa. And being married in March, and I moved in October to America. And I never thought I’d come to America, but you know when Prem and me met, and we went out for 5 years, we dated for 5 years, he decided to emigrate to America, even though my parents wanted us to be staying in India. But his father was very particular that his kids move to America. And I think he was the one who influenced him to be a doctor, also, and he felt like for a doctor to practice in a very nurturing and a very academic situations, with not having to have any problems, he thought America would be the best. And that's why, that time you know, we made the decision that I had to wait about six months to get my visa, then we moved. 00:00:00.035 --> 01:56:35.035 [SR]: Is there anything else that brought you here, besides professional opportunity and marriage? 00:00:00.036 --> 01:56:35.036 [SUJAYA]: It was primarily marriage. And, of course, you know, that time we didn't think too much about what's going to happen next. We were not aware of the future, so it didn't bring us anxiety, and tensions. So, we just went along with how each day presented to us. So, I think when we came, it was just matter-of-factly and then--so we enjoyed it. So, basically, of course, the profession was secondary to the marriage. So, because I became a doctor, that's what, it brought me here, and I didn't think about changing my profession, I decided to pursue it. 00:00:00.037 --> 01:56:35.037 [SR]: What type of expectations did you have of, or images in your mind of the United States or Chicago before coming here? 00:00:00.038 --> 01:56:35.038 [SUJAYA]: Oh, good question. By that time, I mean of course we used to primarily read about the countries, even though I traveled extensively in India, I had not come to United States. I had gone outside the country to only a few places. But, United States we had read about it, and seen pictures. So, basically, when I came here, to me there was no culture shock. ‘Til I started working. There were a couple of things that really—but at the same time I shouldn't even say--lot of our friends would say, Yes there’s a culture shock, but that part I didn't have regarding clothes, or regarding the way of life, or anything. Because there was a lot of family influence and there was so—basically, initially I did miss my home I did miss India, because there was lot of extended family for Prem. 00:00:00.039 --> 01:56:35.039 But I missed my home. It almost took me ten years to say this is my home. But things like clothes, things like food, things like going out to eat were not at all a surprise. And the two things, like I said which were impressive to me, was there was no shortage of water or electricity, which we faced in India. And people, I notice that they take it for granted. The air is so clean and the water, drinking water is available to you 24/7. Electricity is there 24/7 and then--you know, the other thing I noticed is all switches work the opposite way. If it was on, for us to switch it up, here it was down. So, it's—and vice versa. So that was something that, you know, you notice. But, it's not a culture shock. But my culture shock came in, part of my profession. 00:00:00.040 --> 01:56:35.040 [SR]: And, actually, just to expand on that, what were some of those challenges that you faced when you first arrived? 00:00:00.041 --> 01:56:35.041 [SUJAYA]: Well, I first arrived in October like I said. It was almost end of October, so I didn't realize that we had to go through a matching program to get into residency at that time. But I was already (inaudible). As soon as I realized, by November, I was late for the matching program for that year. So, what I had done was-- lucky at that time, they offered positions mid-year also. So, I joined the plastic surgery department in January 1st. Which, barely, like two months after I came here, they gave me a position of an intern, they paid me, because plastic surgery is a fellowship. It's done after residency. So, but then, that was one of the most exciting times for me, because I learned a lot. 00:00:00.042 --> 01:56:35.042 They knew that I was interested in ophthalmology, so they taught me everything on the face, suturing on the face, and then I trained at Cook County, which had lot of trauma. Every time there was a facial trauma, they’d send me. Just so that I’d learn how to do all this. But like I said my culture shock was the transgender surgery. That was the biggest thing at that time, because County had the sole permission in Chicago city for transgender surgery. And the doctor who had started this at County gave his legacy to our chairman, Dr. Jay. And Dr. Jay would, in turn, teach all the fellows how to do it. But he was so nice to me that, when he ran the clinic, he would invite one single fellow to go in with him to see all the patients. And I was so lucky that weekly once he would have me go. 00:00:00.043 --> 01:56:35.043 So, for that part, for me it was two things. It was enlightening because what happens to these transgender people, how they think, what they go through, it is actually very emotionally touching. It’s not just, some people look at it, and they could laugh or they could be very judgmental. But when you see them and when you see them as a doctor, it’s really, really touching and emotional. And sometimes you feel like, why does nature have to do this to them, you know? So that was a biggest learning, you know, I would say, a big huge step for me, a giant step. From then on, you know, no matter who you see, how you're treated with racial slurs or whatever, it really doesn't matter, because of what I feel, what they went through, even in America. 00:00:00.044 --> 01:56:35.044 At that time, they moved as groups, they did not go as one person. They always went in threes or more. And even in the clinic, when they would come, they’d come like seven of them, or eight, because I think they were viewed very differently and they were treated very differently, even at that time. So, this was in 1980’s. 00:00:00.045 --> 01:56:35.045 [JITESH JAGGI]: So, did that make you think about the situation of transgender people back in India? 00:00:00.046 --> 01:56:35.046 [SUJAYA]: Yes. 00:00:00.047 --> 01:56:35.047 [JJ]: And what you think, how the, how far has the United States come in this journey? 00:00:00.048 --> 01:56:35.048 [SUJAYA]: Yes. You know, in India, we call them hijras, or eunuchs, you know, it was a mixed emotion in India, as you grew up you saw them at all occasions, you saw them at weddings, you saw them at childbirth, you saw them at deaths. They would come and for some reason, it was believed that they brought you luck when they come to the house, because they bless you. At the same time, they also believe if they cursed you, the curse would come true. But they also moved in groups. So I noticed that was the similarity between them and here. But in India, we didn’t know, I think the term is eunuchs, that they used-- some of them a transvestite and some of them were transgender. 00:00:00.049 --> 01:56:35.049 But we were told that when a child is born, the reason why they come, they examine the child and if the child resembled them, they took the child away. Because they did not want the child to grow up in an atmosphere where they would be harassed, where they would be troubled, so they took them, and they lived in groups, and they raised the child there. So, that is another purpose why they came. Whereas here, the patients that I saw were mostly grown up. And I realized that they also lived in groups rather than individual. I think we've come a long way now from then ‘80s to now. But that was a very important, good learning step, both emotionally and academically for me. 00:00:00.050 --> 01:56:35.050 [SR]: And just to expand on what you were talking about by working in plastics and everything, what was your first job here when you transferred into ophthalmology and everything? And what was your experience with your first professional time? 00:00:00.051 --> 01:56:35.051 [SUJAYA]: Well, I have to go backwards, because the plastic surgery only lasted for about six months. And then, I had to try to apply for career, for myself. And every step of the way, I got lucky. It was just a matter of the right place right time. Because even January 1st, there was only one intern that would be taken for plastic surgery and I got that position, you know. And people would die to be, you know, plastic surgeons, and they didn't get, and I was really, call it fresh off the boat, come new immigrant, and I was given that opportunity, and I was lucky. Then, the next thing happened that I had applied for—you know, like I told you, I was late for the match. 00:00:00.052 --> 01:56:35.052 So, come June, I had to let the department, this was at Cook County Hospital in Chicago, so I had to let the medical staff secretary know that I'm looking for a position as an intern. And it so happened that one of the most popular programs in Cook County was, what was called at that time, a flexible internship. It rotated you in all the departments. And there were only six positions, and all six were matched, and to my delight again to somebody else's bad luck, somebody dropped out of the program in June. And I was called and offered that position. So, I got that and started on July 1st, so I didn't kind of waste any time. I just transitioned into the internship year, which was again very interesting for me because, wanted to pursue ophthalmology. Then I had to find out how best I can expose myself to that department, because nobody knows you, you’ve come from someplace else, and nobody knows you other than the papers that you carry with you. 00:00:00.053 --> 01:56:35.053 So, that's different from your practical knowledge and how you behave and everything. So, what I did was on my surgery rotations, instead of doing general surgery, I requested ophthalmology, which is usually an elective. But then, to my surprise, the secretary told me that that department does not accept interns, unless we take permission, special permission, from the chair of the department. So, I had to approach him. And when I went there, he said you can come, but in the spring. But, my problem was, if I had to have them evaluate me for a position there, they had to evaluate me in the fall. And he said that would be difficult, because he has new interns to train. But I said, I'm very keen on doing ophthalmology. So, that was another lucky break for me, that he gave me a rotation in the fall. And when I did that rotation, and the residents there were so nice to me, again I came across good people in my life, everywhere I went, and they taught me everything. 00:00:00.054 --> 01:56:35.054 On the last day, that was a nerve-wracking day for me, Itook call for them and everything throughout the whole month. But the chairman came and sat in the exam room when I was examining the patient without saying a word. He just was watching me, and I was nervous, but I had to not let him know that I was nervous. So, he went through like for the whole hour, he sat there and he, basically, he was evaluating me, talking to the patient, checking the--and I guess that was what, because you know he knew I was going to apply, that was how he rated me. Because that was one of the programs which only took three residents, and he always took a woman that we knew out of the three, and there were three hundred applicants for those three positions. So, for me, it was a real long shot, and I applied on only one place, and I had no other recommendation letters, other than from the plastic surgery department. 00:00:00.055 --> 01:56:35.055 And my plastic surgery chair, Dr. Jay said he was the one who encouraged me. Even though Prem said it's very hard department to get into. He said, if this is your dream, you have to pursue it. And I got, the only place, I matched that place. And that was another lucky break again for me, because 1981 I started the flexible rotation and I matched for ophthalmology matches two years ahead. So, I matched for ‘83 and then again, you know—so I had a gap of one year, so my ophthalmology chair said, I'll give you an intern’s position. We’ll pay you, but we won't give you credit for that year. So then, what happened was, again the lucky break came through that somebody else dropped out for ‘82 July and he moved me up. 00:00:00.056 --> 01:56:35.056 So, it's one lucky break after another that came through that I did. The other interesting thing I had for my flexible internship in Cook County was that I did not want to do any OB. I'd learned whatever OB I had wanted to learn in India with one of my favorite doctors, who was an inspiration for me to be a doctor, Dr. Kirloskar. And when I came here and talked to the secretary, again I was lucky enough not to do the labor line. And I got to do the floors, complicated OB floors. So, it's one lucky break after another and after that, of course, like you asked, the professional first practice. And pretty much, I stayed there, it was with one Dr. Akers who had started his practice about 13 years before me. 00:00:00.057 --> 01:56:35.057 He was solo, he didn't have any partners, and his practice was growing, and I met him in, I think March, after my first born. And then he said, Okay, we'll have something for you. And again, I didn't look anywhere else. So then, come June when I said--he said, You know, I didn't think you were serious. I said, No, I didn't look anywhere else. But then, he realized the position and he had given me the word, and I started practice with him and the rest is history of practice with him ‘til 1996, ‘til he turned over the practice to me. And then, after that, 2001, I sold my practice to my junior partner. And, of course, you know I worked with them as their partners and retired in 2020, June, after 35 years of practice. 00:00:00.058 --> 01:56:35.058 [SR]: How did you feel that you are treated in terms of opportunity and advancement and recognition for your work through the years? 00:00:00.059 --> 01:56:35.059 [SUJAYA]: You know, I think that part, I have no complaints, coming from India. And I thought I had got such lucky breaks every step of the way, I was accepted, I was loved, I was, you know, taught. The opportunities I got, I sometimes feel like I wouldn't have got them in India either. So that was—so, so much you know you take it for granted, but that made a great, that made me very grateful, even though I came here. The other thing was that of course we did have a couple of incidents because of the race, and that was all very minor. But, me being feisty, I kind of stood up to them, whereas Prem would say, you know, You should let it go and stuff like that. 00:00:00.060 --> 01:56:35.060 But the one incident which we were really involved was a very violent one. And that happened during our residency days. And, you know, we had worked very hard, the calls used to be very difficult in County. And we would finish that, but then we wouldn't want to sit home. We would want to be with the cousins, or the friends, so we’d go out for a meal, either to their house or to a restaurant. So, one of those times, it was evening, it was dusk, and we went to the north side, and it was in Pratt Avenue close to the north side. And we were trying to parallel park, because was a very small street, residential street. And there were cars parked on both sides, we had a spot, we were trying to back up. 00:00:00.061 --> 01:56:35.061 And somebody from the back came and banged into our car. And this was on purpose, the person was too much in a rush to go someplace. The worst part is, we didn't know why he done that. And the next thing we know is I got out to the passenger seat and Prem was on the driver seat, the next thing we knew was he had the tire iron in his hand, ready to hit. And the only thing we could think was to hold that I think he was on drugs, and he needed to get something right away. And so, he was ready to hit Prem, and we held on to the--and we started screaming. So, the neighbors did not come out, but they call the police. In the meantime, what he did was, he took that rod and he broke the tail lights of our car, it was a new car. First car. He broke the taillights, and then he came back, and then he held on to Prem’s hair, and he pulled out a bunch of hair, I mean, literally, I have visions of that scene ‘til today, ‘til today. And in the meantime--that time, we had no cell phones. 00:00:00.062 --> 01:56:35.062 Because the—and luckily in the meantime, the neighbors had called, the people who were living there, called the police. And the police actually talked and initially, they were letting him go. In the meantime, while he was there, I ran up to the cousins and brought them down. But he behaved in a very erratic manner that the police took him in. So, and then, we had a court date, but unfortunately, we were so scared we didn’t go, we didn't want to pursue. We told the police that we won't pursue that case. But that was one of the only real, negative experiences of our life. I mean and he kept saying, I'm going to shoot you. He kept (inaudible) and saying, I'm going to shoot you. And all I remember is that I screaming saying, “Don't, please don't, please don't.” And I'm screaming for help. So, that was the one biggest negative experiences. And—(audio interruption) 00:00:00.063 --> 01:56:35.063 And it happened to be a white person, and the comment that the police made struck, when it stuck with me for a very long time. He said, This is white trash. That's what the policeman said. But it's unfortunate that it was white or brown or whoever it could be, but I think it's because of the drugs. 00:00:00.064 --> 01:56:35.064 [SR]: So, this next question kind of bases off of that, but what type of experiences or individuals from your arrival that had a, like that you had had a long-lasting effect on you? Positive or negative. 00:00:00.065 --> 01:56:35.065 [SUJAYA]: Of course, the positives are all with the residency, and the friendships that we've made, and the opportunities that I've got, I’ve said most of them. And then—and in life also over years, we’ve made such lasting relationships, those were all positives. Very, very few negatives, to tell you the truth. This was one of the biggest negatives that we had in our life. Other than that, negative relationships, none. Pretty much had a happy family life, happy friendship life, and extended family. Which we’re very lucky for us. 00:00:00.066 --> 01:56:35.066 [OTHER SPEAKER]: Can you talk about, you mentioned that you didn’t have a lot of culture shock. Besides the experience you had in plastics, what were some other experiences that kind of highlighted the differences about living in Chicago, or in the U. S., versus living in India that you had to get used to? You talked about the flipping of the switches, but what else? 00:00:00.067 --> 01:56:35.067 [SUJAYA]: Like I told you, about the air and the water. The clean air and the clean water. And electricity, which is available to you all the time. Those were some of the observations. Then the rest is not much, like I said, the clothing and everything, like we had known. So, we had to switch from the wearing Indian clothes even to work, because at that time we were expected in India to wear the Indian clothes. So, when you come here, we switch to the Western way of dressing. And was so interesting for me, again, that my chairman, being Jewish, he encouraged us to be ourselves. He encouraged us to be Indian. And he said, Of you feel like wearing your Indian clothes to work, it's fine with me. Of course, not the sari, but the trousers. But the distinct thing that he mentioned to me was that I used to wear my bhindi, which is the dot on my forehead. And he said, That is fine, you can wear it. So, I wore it for a longest time, and the most interesting thing for that, the incident that I remember about my bhindi is that he would, my chairman would, bring his three 3-year-old, but then by the time I finished, he was 5--and Dr Axelrod was my chairman, his son's name was Daniel. And Daniel would come for rounds on the weekends with him. And he would put him on the stool and show him some things through the slit lamp. The reason why I'm saying this is that one of the weekends that Dr. Axelrod was sleeping in, he said that Daniel came, Daniel was an only child, he's an only child, so he came and woke him up. And he said, Dad just wake up. A he says, Why are you waking me up? I would like to sleep some more. He said, No you have to see this. He took a pen and he made a dot on his forehead and he said, Today, I'm Doctor Rupani. So, it was even-- what made me feel that like, even this little kid would appreciate a bhindi on my forehead. And so, I wore bhindi throughout my residency. You know, even with my Western clothes. It's only after that, that I started to kind of wean it off. But I still, you know like my Indian culture, to wear my saris and clothes and my bhindi was my highlight. The reason why I think bhindi was important to me was my grandpa, maternal grandpa, he was a very progressive man. He worked under, I told you, the British rule. He was the inspector of police. He would say that a bhindi is not only a tradition for the Hindus, but he said for a girl, it’s very important for you. It's like the highlight of your face. Because in India, they’d criticize you for your nose or your eyes or whatever. He said that if you put a large bhindi, the attention, or the focus would go on to your bhindi and not to anything else. And I was known for my big bhindis growing up too. So, that was another thing, that I didn't have to give it up and which was, I thought was, the acceptance. So it kind of reinforced my acceptance to the local culture. And so we had lots of positives. 00:00:00.068 --> 01:56:35.068 [SR]: This is something that you had touched on already, but if you can expand on it, like, just the general process of making friends, people that you knew here before. Was it difficult to expand your friendship circles? 00:00:00.069 --> 01:56:35.069 [SUJAYA]: No, not at all. We were lucky because when we moved, Prem being the first one in our batch to move, lots of our classmates moved here. They would stay with us initially and then we’d help them get apartments. The next thing we’d help them is to apply for residencies. And Prem being in the department that he was, and well liked in the department, he talked to his, you know, his attendings and professors and make sure that all our friends got their interviews. And at that time, it was an easier chance. So, lots of our friends just came. They started their lives in Chicago, and especially in our homes, and from there on, besides the friendships, we also assume, I mean, had lot of friends because Prem got involved with his hospital administration as well as the Indian Medical Association and then (inaudible) everything, so lot of relationships that were made through him and through the organizations. And being so well-liked by, from the janitor to the CEO of the hospital, they knew him and he was loved by everybody. So, the relationships with the nurses, with the staff, with the doctors, it just increased and increased our circle. So, we had a wonderful time making relationships and enjoying them also. 00:00:00.070 --> 01:56:35.070 [OS]: So, you mentioned earlier, making friends here, or you said, wasn't very difficult and you had cousins and things. And you said earlier that you didn't really miss India, you missed your home. So, can you talk a little bit more about what made you homesick for your home? What was it like corresponding with your family and going back to visit? 00:00:00.071 --> 01:56:35.071 [SUJAYA]: Okay. So when I said I missed home, obviously because I grew up in a nuclear family. It was my mom, my dad, my sister, and you wake up in the morning, you see your sister, because we shared a room. Wake up in the morning, you see your mom and dad, and having just one telephone line, and one car, we shared everything. And so, my dad had an office in the house, growing up. So, the telephone would be there but with a long cord, which if I had to do homework over the phone with a friend, we’d share the phone. 00:00:00.072 --> 01:56:35.072 And of course, like I said to you, that my mom taught me driving and we learned to drive by the time we were 16. Both she taught, my sister and me. That was the only illegal thing that I know happened in our house, that my sister learned to drive a little earlier, although she didn't get her official license ‘til later. Then, I missed them, a lot. And I missed—again, I married a person from a Sindhi background and I was from a Telegu background. So, I did miss sometimes talking in Telugu, because all the time we spoke in Hindi or English. So, I did have some of my friends, close friends who also moved here, but when I met them I only spoke to them in Telegu. So, that was one. 00:00:00.073 --> 01:56:35.073 And then the other thing was that, of course, when we came here in the ‘80s, there was not that much Indian influence or culture existent in the United States. Although, Chicago being a big city, had some influences. The first temple was coming up. You know, we do pujas at homes at that time rather than the temples. So, those are the little things that you take it for granted in India, which we missed over here. And then, in India every month is one or two festivals, as we call them. And when we came here, it was another day. We didn't have the official holidays or anything. But during our residency, being Jewish, our chairman gave holidays, two holidays, Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah to the residents. 00:00:00.074 --> 01:56:35.074 He gave the same two holidays for other residents. So, I took mine for Dussehra and Diwali. So, at least then it kind of expanded the thing that, Oh, I can do this. So, you know when you got the Diwali holiday, you went out and bought some mithai and then you made something special, you try to wear new clothes, and of course, you know, which we did—that was another thing growing up, my mom said always wear something new for the birthdays and any special festivals, so which I think I still have it. And I use that for my kids too as an example. Just to make the day feel special to you. 00:00:00.075 --> 01:56:35.075 [JJ]: Did you have relearn how to drive here? Who taught you to drive here? Or, was it— 00:00:00.076 --> 01:56:35.076 [SUJAYA]: Oh, my driving here was very, very easy transition. Because, if you learn to drive in Hyderabad where, like my kids when they would go back say that it's like an accident going to happen, but it never happens. And come here, the traffic was so regularized and if you made a mistake, you’d get a ticket. So, for me, driving was very easy and it was a pleasure. So, I didn't waste time, of course, Prem just guided me through for driving and I passed my test with no effort. So I think within the first month itself I had got my license, which is again unusual, because of all the things that you go through. I think maybe even two weeks I got, the only thing I had to learn was parallel parking. And I was fine, because the cars were all, they had the power steering and everything. So, it was easy to learn that. primary education is starting from Montessori to first standard, we had several vernacular groups, classes, in between. So, for four years after Montessori, I was at a local Gujarati school, local Parsi school, primarily for girls. And, so they would that take boys until they were about 8 or 9 years of age and then we moved on to a boy’s school. And so, I was there at the Parsi school, our community school, close to where we lived, for four years till I was age of 8 or so. And then moved on to another same kind of school, missionary school, called the Don Bosco High School. St. John Don Bosco. And they had a school that was newly opened, when I first started there. And that's where I graduated from high school, we call that secondary school certificate, SSC, at that time. So, that is my earlier scholastic life. inaudible 00:00:00.077 --> 01:56:35.077 And enjoy driving in America. So, what that did to me is that, once I started driving here, I absolutely stopped driving in India. So, because it's such a pleasure and there you go and be stressful, and never drove again in India. So that was another thing, we always love to take driving vacations during residency and early parts of our lives, and also when the kids were young. So that was that. And you also asked me about the trips to India. So, because I was home sick too, the whole vacation was spent during residency going to India. In County, we were very lucky to get four weeks of vacation, paid vacation. So, you’d go to India, and go to India was a trip. Packing, shopping, buying things for everybody, gifts for everybody and packing. And you didn’t have a weight restriction at that time, and of course, you packed as much as you could, you went there. 00:00:00.078 --> 01:56:35.078 And then once you went there, it was all party, party, party all the time. You met everybody possible. And at first two years, I had to take all four weeks at a stretch. Once I joined ophthalmology, he encouraged us to take a week at a time, because we were just a small department of nine residents. So, that was even better, that gave us a chance to go to other places. I still remember our first vacation out of U. S. was to Jamaica. And then, the second vacation we went to was again to one of the islands. We still did India, but we shortened the trip. Instead of four weeks we make that two weeks, we’d combine the two weeks and invariably it used to be around December, January, during the holiday times. But, I enjoyed, because of the background, my school background, I always enjoyed the Christmas time in America. Because it just feels like Diwali, it felt like, reminded me of Diwali to me. 00:00:00.079 --> 01:56:35.079 The lights everywhere, and everybody was happy, and everybody had sweets to share and to, you know. So, I kind of combined the two. So, for me, it reminded me of that, although I celebrated it in a different way here. But then, that's how-- once the kids came, then we had started to have Christmas trees and the gifts, the, whatever, the commercial, American commercialism, you know, kind of, how shall I say, crept into our lives. So that time. But, you know, being in India too, one of our good friends growing up, like I mentioned Dr. (inaudible), they used to have a Christmas tree in their house. So even way back then, we decorated it, we had presents, small tiny gifts, under the tree for each other, and we did the nativity scene. So we did all that. So those trips to India were very nice, they were very cherished. And initial trips and when the kids were small, we didn’t travel in India. Once the kids grew up, then we started to travel, of course, extensively here, as well as in India too. 00:00:00.080 --> 01:56:35.080 [OS]: What about when you couldn't, when you weren't visiting India, how did you keep in touch with your family? 00:00:00.081 --> 01:56:35.081 [SUJAYA]: Yeah, I know, I remember you asking me that question. At that time, it was only telephone. And long-distance calls had to be booked. And they used to be called, PP calls, person to person calls. And they were very expensive. So, we kept that to a minimum once a week. And Prem said you can call them anytime you want. So, initially, it was lot more, but we wrote mail, we wrote letters. And they were wonderful to write, because you kind of accumulated all the news from a week, to ten days, to two weeks, but the letters would go. 00:00:00.082 --> 01:56:35.082 And (inaudible) they’d be called Inland letters, in India, they’d call the Outland letters, they would be folded. And they’re cheaper than envelopes with the papers in it or cards in it. And they were much cheaper than that. So, we wrote those. Yeah, so basically it was—and whenever people came, somebody else came, we’d always get care packages, you know. So, there was another way to keep in touch, too. But lots of my friends, the childhood friends, who came to—they even came-- that time Hyderabad did not have an international airport, when I came first. They all came to Delhi to say bye to me, to see me off. And they did, they were the ones who'd send care packages for me. 00:00:00.083 --> 01:56:35.083 [OS]: So, you talked about missing your family in India, but what else, if anything, did you and also do you miss about India? And has that changed over time? 00:00:00.084 --> 01:56:35.084 [SUJAYA]: Like I said, initially, you know--like if you have to buy Indian clothes, you had to buy it in India. Okay. If you had to buy the mithai, you had to make it at home, there were very few places at that time that would carry the mithai, which was—so everything was made. The restaurants were few. And slowly as the Indian numbers increased, so everything increased. The Indian stores increased, and they started to carry everything from rakhis to mithais to the several kinds of mithais, initially it was only barfis that were available, now everything and anything is available. So, you kind of go to a store, then you see (inaudible) even for your rations, or supplies, the food supplies, you did not get certain things at that time. And you kind of lug them from India, you know when you came with. But, slowly, everything is available now, that's the reason why you don't miss those things. So, slowly that's how you get used to seeing everything too. 00:00:00.085 --> 01:56:35.085 [OS]: And what about now? What do you miss about India? 00:00:00.086 --> 01:56:35.086 [SUJAYA]: Basically, people. Basically, people, and I love traveling in India, actually a lot more, ‘specially the mountains, the Himalayas. So, every chance I get, I'd like to go there. So, I feel like I miss those trips, especially now withthe pandemic, so—but, I was one of the lucky ones, that I was able to travel every three months. So, every three months when I went, I made a small little vacation, if not to the mountains up North, even South, the Western Ghats, and the hills, the smaller hills in our state too. (interruption) 00:00:00.087 --> 01:56:35.087 [SR]: Alright, ready? 00:00:00.088 --> 01:56:35.088 [OS]: Can you talk a little bit about the process of becoming a U. S. citizen? What prompted you to do that? Did you and your spouse become citizens at the same time? Just tell us about that. 00:00:00.089 --> 01:56:35.089 [SUJAYA]: Okay. Well, at the time when I came, I came with what was called--as soon as you landed would be, got what was called a green card or a permanent residency of U. S., because of the spouse. So, being married to a person who already had a green card, you got a green card, also. The process took about six months at that time. Very interesting process, by the way. You had to go for a physical, and the physical doctor who did that was a particular doctor who was designated by the U. S. Embassy. And in Hyderabad, he was a guy who did not have a good reputation, so it was very interesting. 00:00:00.090 --> 01:56:35.090 But nothing really happened, we passed through that, and then of course, the formal interview that you do, and then you get the—much easier than now, much shorter process that now, time-wise and process by itself. Then when you reached America, of course at the airport they asked you a few questions, basically because I was married and I was joining my spouse, it was easy. Now, you had to wait five years after you got your permanent residency, or the green card here, to apply for a citizenship. For me, what I had done was—it’s surprising because, even though Prem came here first, he did not take his citizenship first. I was the one who took it. So, I was eligible obviously October ’85, but I applied in early ’86, and I took my citizenship right away, because I wanted to sponsor my sister. 00:00:00.091 --> 01:56:35.091 So, I took it first, and he didn't want to because of certain reasons, but we used to travel quite a bit even at that time, abroad. And we noticed that between us, he had the Indian passport and I have the U. S. passport, everywhere we went, it was an easy passage for me and for him, either we had to take visas first, or his questions were lot more. And once the kids came, he still didn't have his citizenship. So, we had this very peculiar experience. We travelled Lufthansa, we were in Frankfurt for the stop, four of us were there, and he, the officer, let me and the kids step out of the immigration area to go to a child friendly area, where they could play and everything. 00:00:00.092 --> 01:56:35.092 Whereas, Prem was not allowed to come out of that the secured area. So, that's when he decided, I'm going to get my citizenship too. And he took it. The process itself was very, very, easy at that time. We had a bunch of questions we had to to learn up, and then—mainly because of the history of American, and you know, Constitution and stuff. And then, you took the written test. Once you pass the written test, and knowing English, it was easier for other people, some people, it gets a little harder because of the language, but it was easier. Then once you took that, you had a date for your oath, and that's when you were sworn in, and you got your--it was exciting to get a new passport and everything, so it was exciting. 00:00:00.093 --> 01:56:35.093 [OS]: Can you talk a little bit about your kids, and what was childhood like in the U. S. for them versus your childhood in India? 00:00:00.094 --> 01:56:35.094 [SUJAYA]: Okay, so first I tell you we got married in 1980, Prem moved here earlier than me. July 20th, 1979. And then he came back to India because he had to reach America single, take his permanent residency, then only he could come back. If he was married, then he would give up his right, because his mother sponsored them. So, they had to be under a certain age to get their own permanent residency. And so, he came back in March to get married to me in India. Very peculiar, Sindhis cannot get married in the month of their birth, so he didn’t do February, so that's why we did it in March. And then, of course the from then on, it was a wonderful time for us, because we knew each other from medical school, and we dated each other for five years. 00:00:00.095 --> 01:56:35.095 The one thing which was very peculiar that happened during residency was that, he did not want me to be disappointed in any way, in any way. He wanted my ride to be smooth, so he would kind of warn me, but that, to me, sounded like a discouragement. He would say ophthalmology is difficult to get in, ophthalmology is difficult to get in. So, that would be written in every letter after we got married, like when you say the communication was between us, also with letters he would write, so I said, Okay, to him, if you think that's that hard, then I’ll settle for general surgery. 00:00:00.096 --> 01:56:35.096 Then he had no way to say anything, although general surgery would have been a worst choice for me. Because another peculiar incident during residency time was that I interacted with a general surgery resident, a third year resident, on one of my trauma calls. And she was one of the most rude and obnoxious person that I've ever come across, and she used to smoke, at that time, indoor smoking was allowed. And if she got upset, what she’d do is that, she’d inhale the cigarette, and exhale right onto your face. I still can't forget that. So, that, I thought that was a changing point in my life. I said, if I'm going to be like her in three years, I definitely don't want this. So, that's how I changed and I pursued ophthalmology even more. Because my other alternates would have been radiology or physiatry, so, that’s that. 00:00:00.097 --> 01:56:35.097 And then, for both of us we had a wonderful time before the kids came. Wonderful residency, both of us had trained in the same hospital, so, we’d meet for lunch there too. And we’d drive in together, drive out back, unless there was calls, you know. Then one of us would stay, because we did have a place to stay at the hospital. They’d give us room and the food too. And then, of course, the kids came. 1985 Shilpa came, February 23rd, oh boy, she was like, so special for everybody. Everybody. Even the residents, the practice when I started at, oh my goodness, they wanted to see pictures of her, she was an easy kid, of course, she would be smiling, and she’d get up smiling, too. Both the kids, actually. 00:00:00.098 --> 01:56:35.098 And then, Priyanka came in 1988, January 4th. Shilpa came February 23rd ’85. So, they were about three years apart. Both came early, Shilpa came three weeks early, Priyanka came six weeks early. Everybody said that she couldn’t wait to come out. They were worried that she was premature, but she wasn't. Then, both were easy to take care of. Priyanka on the one hand--Shilpa would have little restless night, she wouldn't sleep that well. Priyanka on the other hand, has never slept during the day, and she always was wide awake. And then, she’d sleep early and get up early too, that was her strength, I guess. She still does that **laughs** And then, they were--you know when the kids came, it-- again Indian traditions, that the women, when they're pregnant and at the last trimester, they go to their mother's house. Because they feel like it's such a stressful time for the woman, and it's easier for them to be with their mother who can take care of them. 00:00:00.099 --> 01:56:35.099 So, my mom came to help me for Shilpa, and then my in-laws would go back and forth. By the way, my in-laws lived with us right from the beginning, and including my sister-in-law ‘til she got married. So, we all lived together. That was again, the family was more like a joint family. That's a little different from what I grew up with, but that kind of helped me not to feel lonely. And then, the work my mother-in-law would love to cook, my father-in-law would love to shop, and then of course they had the family, and then my sister-in-law was there, the cousins were there. And the day I reached America, there were 18 of them to welcome me, in a two-bedroom apartment. And Prem came and told me, They're spending the night here. And the first question I asked is, where will they sleep? He says, Don't worry. So then I noticed it was a dorm like atmosphere. That time, the dining and the living area were common. You know, everything was moved apart. The couch was moved out. And then, they put, they made floor beds and everybody stayed over. 00:00:00.100 --> 01:56:35.100 And the other peculiar thing is I never drank alcohol. Never touched it and I never liked it. So, they opened champagne for me, and I didn't drink it, and they thought that was another peculiar thing. For me, it was usual. For them it was like so peculiar that she doesn't drink the champagne that’s opened for her. So that's how the beautiful memory started. And the kids were just a delight. We have no complaints. Of course, I was the strict one between the two. And Prem gave them so much love and so much affection that, I think it kind of, how should I say it, made up for the strictness that I had with them. Am I right? **laughs* And then, I think Shilpa was a year and a half--of course my mom stayed only the six months, and then she left for India because, of course, she had to be there for my sister and my dad. 00:00:00.101 --> 01:56:35.101 My in-laws came back from India, they helped with Shilpa and, we were in Darien at that time. Shilpa didn't need too many toys, sorry, I think it was Westmont. So, she would play in the kitchen with the dishes when my mother-in-law would be cooking. So, that's how—we didn’t have to buy the specialty toys for babies and stuff, you know. And then, they wanted to go back to India again. So then, we started looking for nannies. So, that’s another beautiful experience, or a rich experience, for us because, when we looked, we found this lady who was there, who would come. But my in-laws would watch, be there to watch Shilpa too, but that lady turned out to be that she wasn't watching Shilpa. She was watching TV. So, Shilpa apparently just walked out of the house, and it was raining, drizzling, and luckily, she went outside and playing in the water was dripping from the gutter. Whereas my mother-in-law came and lucky me she found her, she was Just—Shilpa only spoke Hindi and that time. Only spoke Hindi, and she spoke by about 10 months. So, she had full sentences, but she would only speak Hindi. 00:00:00.102 --> 01:56:35.102 So then, we interviewed another lady through my partner who was at work. His aunt introduced me to somebody, and that lady came as a godsend to us. And that was Auntie Arlene for the girls, and she stayed with us for 18 years. Then when Priyanka came three years later in 1988, again Shilpa was just starting to go to all these library things and everything, they had tons of activities because they were early readers. And Priyanka was more like a lovable child, Shilpa being the first one, we kept them so much in place we've got easier with Priyanka. And so obviously, her timings and all were little off. She was more a colicky child. We tried to put her on a rocker, on the drying machine with the drying machine on. Or we’d take her for a ride in the car for her to fall asleep. And she fall asleep for like 15 minutes and then she’d be up again. So, then we realized that she's a nocturnal sleeper not a (inaudible). So that was very early on. Very, very early on. 00:00:00.103 --> 01:56:35.103 And then we had this lovely childhood and we took part in all activities they started--then looking for schools was another experience for me. And I wanted them to go to the lab school in Chicago, but Prem said, Absolutely not, they’re too young to be transported there. So, that's when I went to, first to a Catholic school in Hinsdale. And they said we are very, very loyal to our parish, we will give the space to our parishioners first. I had the audacity to ask him, What if I converted to (inaudible) **laughs** And he was shocked. He was shocked. I meant it seriously though, because I thought I had a Christian background and Prem went to a Catholic school. He went to a Jesuit school, St. Patrick's, and so I said, What's the big deal? But then, somebody had told us about this independent school which had an early childhood program. As soon as I went, I just fell in love with that. And then, my father-in-law encouraged me. 00:00:00.104 --> 01:56:35.104 They said, Invest in your kids, that's the best investment that you have. Invest in the kids' education, that's the best investment you have in your life. And after that, of course, they started early programs in library and dance classes and ballet, tap, then very earlier on, they were in soccer, then came tennis, then came basketball, as far as sports were concerned. Then they started piano very early. And then, piano, after the first couple years, we enrolled them in Wheaton College. And if they had finished officially that program, they could take a music major in college. So, Wheaton College was the music, and they had a good, I mean, I enjoyed driving them there. They had a wonderful, kind teacher. They had their own recitals and stuff. 00:00:00.105 --> 01:56:35.105 [OS]: So, can you talk a little bit about the, kind of, similarities you saw in your kids’ childhood and upbringing here and your childhood? And the differences. And maybe, what did raising kids in the U. S. each you about American culture? 00:00:00.106 --> 01:56:35.106 [SUJAYA]: Okay, that was a good question for me because that was a totally different learning curve. So, in India we took it for--what we took for granted there, we didn't have it here is the climate. All year round, we could play outside (inaudible) So, here, because the restricting things were the weather, we had to find ways for them to do or play indoors. Luckily, Shilpa, Priyanka, both were into reading. Which was wonderful. Again, they read a lot. We didn't have any computerized, those toys, or those game boxes, or nothing. They didn't grow up with that. Their TV was also restricted, so, I think they started watching a Disney Channel quite late. 00:00:00.107 --> 01:56:35.107 And then, what we introduced and I thought was really wonderful, I still have them, are those conscience building videos, Mr. McGee and me, they were called. They came from a Christian Store, and this was the little voice that talked to you--do you remember any of them? But, I still remember. Because, I used to watch everything with them, just to see what they were watching. So, that's how I learned. I'm still fond of going to Disneyland, I'm still fond of watching Disney Channel, the Disney plays and everything. Just because, I think that just brought sheer joy to you. And the differences are because of the weather, and also, I noticed that here, everything was more structured. 00:00:00.108 --> 01:56:35.108 Whereas in India, was a little more unstructured. You could walk into your friends homes any time. Here, you had to fix or pre-arranged the playtimes, you know, sleepovers. There, it was just like, Okay, we’re going to go there. Sleepovers in India were not that much. They were not encouraged for girls that much. Although, we had a community of friends, the few friends that I'm still friendly with, we went to each other's homes and we slept over, also. The difference again, here, like I said, was the pre-arranged thing. And also their childhood was much more structured than ours. And, the main difference again, this could be my learning curve or my culture shock with the kids, was that the kids were very aware of the external surrounding influences. Which, we were not, growing up. I don't know why, maybe it's the Western culture that does it, or maybe in India now it's the same because, again, of the TV and the internet and everything. 00:00:00.109 --> 01:56:35.109 But, that was something that, I think, we were much more carefree growing up than my kids growing up in America. Which, at times, hurt my feelings because they were very aware, or you could see them withdraw sometimes, but I did not know how to help it, again I had to read so much and go to seminars or whatever the school would provide. And so, I said to myself I have to learn the process, because I didn't go to school here. So then, I got involved with the committees, then I became a full board member at the school for 11 years, I served on the board. Which gave me another facet of learning, to know the education system in America. 00:00:00.110 --> 01:56:35.110 [OS]: So, as you were raising kids in U. S. and you said it took you about 10 years for this to feel at home, how did you maintain connections with your Indian heritage? And were you involved in Indian communities here in Chicago? You mentioned a little bit about the Indian Medical Association and things like that, but what other ways both socially, but also organizations or community-wide— 00:00:00.111 --> 01:56:35.111 [SUJAYA]: Yeah, mainly it was the temple structure, because, see in India, you take it for granted, because you grow up in a Hindu culture. Whereas here, is everything else but Hindu culture, so we had to inculcate some bit of it in the kids. So, the best way we thought was, how do you teach the kids to pray? So, there’s the puja, it’s more ritualistic, but still, when they’re young, they can pick up certain things. Every little step in a puja has a significance. 00:00:00.112 --> 01:56:35.112 So, we thought, if we do it at home, they’ll pick it up. Again, I did not grow up ritualistic. We were more spirituals, whereas Prem grew up in a, you know, even more liberal background because his parents were more into Chinmaya Mission, again because Sindhi culture didn't have that many temples or anything in India. But they were into the holy book of the Sikhs and the gurudwaras. So, what we did was, we-- although because, he grew up in the South, he believed in the Tirupati Temple, Balaji Temple also. In fact, he’d go, every exam he passed, he’d go and sacrifice his hair, shave his head off and come back. So, we decided, okay we'll start the puja. 00:00:00.113 --> 01:56:35.113 So, every year, when the kids were barely two or three years old, we started. And then, started to expose them to Ramayan and Maharat on the TV, there were the TV shows that had started. And Shilpa was really into it, because Priyanka was really young. So she was, she would associate herself with Sita and she would call “Site.” And she and her cousin, Vikram, who passed away since, were in the temple, they acted like Rama and Sita. Unfortunately, I didn't have pictures, I think our cousin would have some. And then, we would go to the temple. So, that was like the exposure of the Hindu culture to my kids. But, definitely, I guess we could have done more by teaching them a language to read and write, but we took that for granted because, the in-laws were home, they’d speak Sindhi between each other and with Prem, he would speak to my in-laws in Sindhi, and I would speak to them in Hindi, because that was my common languages with them. Between Prem and me, we spoke Hindi. 00:00:00.114 --> 01:56:35.114 We felt like they had a ear for other languages. And Shilpa gave up speaking Hindi by the time Arlene and Annie came, bought one year, eight months or something. And she never kind of--although she has a ear for it. Priyanka on the other hand too, with her we were more lax. We didn't speak to her much and, Hindi she always, after she grew up, she used to ask us, Why did you not teach me Hindi or Sindhi? And why did you not pursue it? Because, she has an affinity for languages like Prem. So does Shilpa, Shilpa’s more (inaudible) than Priyanka. So, they picked up French really easily in school, that’s why. 00:00:00.115 --> 01:56:35.115 So, the associations you asked me also, so the Indian Medical Association was the professional one. The school was my non-professional one that I had gotten involved with. And then, of course, the temple we’d go with. And Prem got involved with the temple, he was in the Hindu temple board, and he was on the Indian Medical Association. And he became the president in 1995 and they invited, for the first time, a sitting president. So, it was Bill Clinton's time, he was the chief guest when AAPI was hosted in Chicago and Prem was the president of IMA. And he did well for himself, even in the hospital, they would have India day, on like the independence day of India, he would arrange for them to have an Indian meal at the hospital. So, we tried to do every little extra step so that our culture would be preserved, yet we blended into a culture, not for religion but two to make things easier for us professionally, and to build relationships. 00:00:00.116 --> 01:56:35.116 And all our friends, non-Indian friends, also accepted us for who we were. And we’d bring them into the Indian Medical Association dinners and we, in turn, had other Indian friends at the hospital dinners. So, it would be cross-cultural. And I still remember when the kids were in second grade, they did a India-- you know what the school was so, how should I say it, they had a well-rounded curriculum to incorporate cultures. So, academics I feel like any kid can pick up, if the kid is little interested, can pick up from any school. But what I liked about this school was the extra-curricular stuff was blended into their core. So, the second grade, they had India, first grade was Mexico, second grade was India, third grade was Japan. So, each time when that was there, so like for example, India, we went as Indian parents. We dressed Indian, we took the clothes for the kids to try out. Prem did cricket with them. We spun lattus, the, what do you call them? 00:00:00.117 --> 01:56:35.117 [JJ]: Spin tops 00:00:00.118 --> 01:56:35.118 [SUJAYA]: The tops, spin tops, he taught the boys and he played cricket with the boys. So, you know, that's how we introduced that little bit. And all these games like Parcheesi and all those, which were the traditional Indian games to the kids. And then, it was a whole month-long, or two-month-long and it ends with an Indian lunch. So, and we provide the Indian lunch so that these kids get to eat diverse food when they're very young. And so, as they grow up older, then they knew like well, and they would refer to the Indian food as with the Indian names, not the English names. So that was nice. 00:00:00.119 --> 01:56:35.119 And then, I think the girls were accepted well in their classes. But, you know, it was a school that does upto eighth grade. And then, they went to lab school in the city. Of course, at that time, they'd become very independent, so let them do whatever they wanted to, or what they wanted to pursue. Then, as the kids grew up and finished college, then I started to have more time and so did Prem. Prem got involved with the hospital quite a bit to do his things. And for him, his pet project towards the end was the hospice project. Because the hospice in the palliative care was getting a little popular in the late nineties and—not late, sorry, early 2000s and 2010s. So, he got involved and that, to him, was one of the most, how should I say, fulfilling experiences of his medical life. 00:00:00.120 --> 01:56:35.120 And he got involved with the season’s hospice at various levels. Not only as a physician, but also as a director and to help the people. And me, in turn, at that time, was thinking about retiring, which was 2020. So, few years prior to that, I was thinking, what shall I do it for my retirement? And one of my very good friends way back from medical school, Dr. Raja Nadimpalli, introduced me to, at that time, IAHM, Indo-American Heritage Museum. So, I was so impressed with how it was working, so I got involved and I got onto the board about five years ago. 00:00:00.121 --> 01:56:35.121 So, little did I realize it was so much work, I thought it was be my retirement work. But it became very busy, because I had introduced to them--they were very small, with a small budget and I had grandiose plans for them. And they were very open to what I brought initially. Although some of the members were so against expansions too, but then, luckily we found a donor for one of our close friends. When I solicited him, he was ready to donate a building. So, all that started, then the size of the board increased, so then how to organize the board, then if we had a board with so many committees, then what we do as a foundation for that? And, what should I say, penthouse for that. 00:00:00.122 --> 01:56:35.122 So, what we did was we brought and made an associate board, we didn't want to call it a junior board. And then we made an advisory board. So, some help from the top, some help from the bottom, so that's what we did. And we had the very, very first gala in 2017. And for which Prem helped so much to raise money, he was a phenomenal fundraiser. And besides everything else, besides building relationships, and of course the fundraising comes because of building relationships. So, he helped us quite a bit and he told us how to do everything for the gala. At that time, we had, it was the first one we emphasized on entertainment. So, we had Amjad Ali Khan and his two sons perform with the Chicago Philharmonic. And then, we had the second gala in 2019, and again Prem helped a lot for us, but then, that was a bumper gala for us in raising money, and Indra Nooyi was our chief guest. And Priyanka attended the gala with me that day. 00:00:00.123 --> 01:56:35.123 [OS]: So, your involvement in the museum is a great segue to the next question, what kind of impact do you think Indian Americans have made on Chicago? 00:00:00.124 --> 01:56:35.124 [SUJAYA]: Oh my goodness, that such a huge question. Not only in Chicago, but in the whole U. S., I think it's one minority community which kind of grabbed academically, socially, financially, I think, in the U. S. And that's because of the openness, the opportunities that people of Indian origin got. It’s not only the generation of kids that were born to the immigrants, the immigrants themselves, they were hardworking community. Being such a small community, now the next generation has permeated into being CEOs of such huge companies. They’ve made their presence known. 00:00:00.125 --> 01:56:35.125 So in fun, I was telling the kids I think, 2015 or ’16, I think I told Shilpa or Priyanka, I don’t know, or both, that it’s so in to be Indian now. The Indian clothes are in, the Indian looks are in, the Indian music is in, Indian food is in. And of course there was a little bit of a retaliation after the racial problems. But, the exposure for Americans to Indian culture was very little, and that's why lots of organizations formed. Although, we’ve changed from IAHM to NIAM, and NIAM, means, in Sanskrit, a principle. And we thought that was a great way to do it, because one of our ex-presidents, she told us that, Drop the word heritage. Just make it National Indo-American Museum, and we said, Oh that’s NIAM. 00:00:00.126 --> 01:56:35.126 And that’s wonderful, that’s how we got the domain and everything right away. So, this is the only organization in the whole country, one of its kind. So, that's why our next step is to take it nationally and have branches all over. North, South hopefully. I mean, East, West for sure, but South for sure, we don't know how North we can go. So, that was that. And then, that's about the museum, and then, Indian culture I think, everywhere, Indians have adapted well to the American culture too. … 00:00:00.127 --> 01:56:35.127 [OS]: So, can you talk a little bit about what you like to do in your leisure time? 00:00:00.128 --> 01:56:35.128 [SUJAYA]: Well, we've always kept ourselves busy. Our family motto was work hard, party hard. **laughs** So, we’ve always kept ourselves busy, but, besides that, the family reads a lot. From the grandparents, to the parents, to the daughters, they all, everybody reads a lot. So, that's one past time we have, and then of course, I joined a book club, and I joined a spiritual club, which is Chinmaya Mission. I go to that and that's more like a Vedic study class. Again, like I said, I wasn't brought up ritualistic, but it gives insight of self-study. So, that's one thing. And then, I also belong to a charity club which didn’t fly very well. Because it turned more into a social thing, so withdrew from it. And of course, there's always charities that we do that for. 00:00:00.129 --> 01:56:35.129 So, those are the few things and, of course, the museum takes us a lot of time. But, the passion of the family is travel. You can probably give any of the family members 15 minutes and say, you ready to go? They’ll be ready. Everybody will be ready. So, we've traveled extensively, when the kids were young, it was, Prem would say, Beach. So we went beach after beach after beach after beach. So, I think--and then I'm not a big sun person, I mean, I would sit and read in the shade. And they would be out on the beach, Prem would get up early in the morning, golf. Because that is, he was a golf buff. He would golf, by the time the kids would be getting up, had their breakfast, and be ready, he'd be back. 00:00:00.130 --> 01:56:35.130 He’d take them to the beach, on to the water. Literally, they would be building sandcastles, but literally I called them Prem castles. He would lay down, and they would build on him with the sand. And he couldn’t squeeze out of them, but some parts were still left over. So those were memories of him and the beach vacations. But, I think starting third grade, or Shilpa’s fourth grade, and you were kindergarten, Priyanka was kindergarten or first grade, that we started to travel abroad. And we thought they’d learn a lot of culture, and learn to eat different kinds of foods, and know the culture. So, they became very easy to travel. At that time, we would, no fast foods, no McDonalds. We would eat the local foods. So that's how they got into the habit of enjoying different kinds of foods. 00:00:00.131 --> 01:56:35.131 And the reason why we did abroad was two things. Because, the kids, we would give them an opportunity for them to know other cultures, because after college, then their time would get restricted with us. And secondly, we thought we could always--of course we did driving trips here too, but then driving tips were always with friends, there was skiing trips that we did with, I think, groups of almost 30 at one time. So, all the kids would go to the ski schools and adults would ski together, the last day the whole group would ski together, get pictures. And we started skiing late thirties, just because of the kids. And, of course, they're good skiers now, they could go with their friends, though they haven't skied for few years. We stopped skiing, Prem and me stopped skiing about ten years, maybe. But we both, when we did our vacations, we would walk. 00:00:00.132 --> 01:56:35.132 And Europe was one of our favorite continents to go to. Although we've explored every one except Antarctica. So, even the very cold places, we've explored a lot. And some of the destinations we've gone to, people think that we shouldn't have gone. Like to Azerbaijan and Lebanon. But, you know, we had wonderful experiences there too. Again, Muslim countries, you know, we had wonderful experiences there. And we even had a chance to go into the Blue Mosque in Turkey during the Namaz time, with our Muslim couple, friends who are Muslim. And they told us one thing straight, they both would go and he told us, you do your Gayatri Mantra over there. I'll do my Namaz, and it's fine. And then, we ladies had to go to a different section, we did the same thing. So, it was like the rich experiences that we had. And, of course, churches after churches after churches that we saw in all of Europe. And of course, all the Islamic culture in southern Spain that we saw. So, very rich experiences during travels too. 00:00:00.133 --> 01:56:35.133 [OS]: Are there any recommendations, or what are the recommendations you would give someone who's planning to leave India to come to the U. S.? 00:00:00.134 --> 01:56:35.134 [SUJAYA]: Come with an open mind, be what you are, be strong, be what you are, don't be afraid to show your culture, or to, you know, talk about your culture. That, I think, that makes your root strong and also makes you as a human being strong, when you come across your weak times in your life. And also, I think lot of people hesitate to pray, and I strongly believe in prayer because I used to tell them, it's a communication with God, that's it. It's like you're talking to God. 00:00:00.135 --> 01:56:35.135 And during Thanksgiving times, that's when we—that’s my favorite holiday amongst the American holidays. Then we'd all get bunch of friends and the kids would all get together, and they would invariably ask me to pray. And some of them, some of the kids used to burst out laughing. And slowly, after me, the host learned how to say it but they would say more thanks rather than a prayer. But, I think prayer makes you internally strong. It doesn't matter who you pray to. And it's actually some kind of a power, which is maybe inside of you. You reach out for it to bring the best strength out of yourself. 00:00:00.136 --> 01:56:35.136 [OS]: So, how has your life changed or been affected during this pandemic, during the current pandemic? 00:00:00.137 --> 01:56:35.137 [SUJAYA]: Okay, see, of course, the family had a tragedy prior to the pandemic, the loss of Prem, my husband. And he went to India again, being the heart of a party, everybody wants him around, his cousin's 50th anniversary, he had to go. He went for five days, but never came back. So, that was the part, that was where it just merged into the pandemic. To me, my life had changed prior too, but I noticed during pandemic, when the shelter at home came into being, in March, gave me a lot of time to grieve in private. So, what that did to me was, people say you have to get on, get on with your life, it never happens. It gave me a chance to get forward or move forward, so that other steps, what we take can be taken. 00:00:00.138 --> 01:56:35.138 You know, Priyanka says you have to be in touch with your emotions and I agree, because I don't mind crying in public or with friends. I can't--not everybody relates to your feelings, so, yes, in some situations, you're vulnerable, and those people understand you, too. So, the three things that I learned during the pandemic is that, you have to respect nature. I think human beings have really taken advantage of nature. I think it's a way of nature striking back, although that goes along with a Vedic theory, but it may or may not go with the Western theory. But, I feel strongly about it, that it's a lesson, that if you don't respect nature, it gives you a chance at two, but then the third, I always believe, three strikes you're out. 00:00:00.139 --> 01:56:35.139 So, the third strike is always going to be strong. And the second thing is that people, what they took for granted, they’re having a chance to, you know, they have more family life, they’re spending more time with the kids, they’re spending more time in the house rather than constant looking for entertainment, they know how to be busy with themselves rather than looking from entertainment from outside, because that brings you temporary happiness, right? So then, you go and look more and more and more. I'm not saying companies, company is not the thing I'm talking about. It's something to amuse yourself, you know. Amusement doesn't have to be where you have to go out and spend money, because all that is gone. 00:00:00.140 --> 01:56:35.140 There are ways to do things without spending money, you can amuse yourself. And then, the other thing is, of course, what we took for granted now, you have to cover yourself, wash hands. Because most of the time, you thought America was very clean, lately, Prem had felt that the hygiene standards in the restaurant industry or the hospitality industry had gone down. So, we're paying more attention to that, which are all good things. So, the other thing is the pandemic, again, they say it's a pandemic, yes. But this virus is going to stay, so we have better be preparing ourselves for the long haul, rather than for a short haul 00:00:00.141 --> 01:56:35.141 [JJ]: Now, you don’t have to answer this, but do you mind talking about, a little bit about, the family tragedy that you spoke about earlier? Just your experience about—you know, where were you that day? And how were you able to overcome that? Or did you just give in? 00:00:00.142 --> 01:56:35.142 [SUJAYA]: You know, what happened was, Prem always had GI issues, when he went to India. So, his GI system was a little weaker, so he always, when he had that, if it’s mild, he would ignore it. But, otherwise, he would always take Cipro. Some visits, he even took Cipro beforehand. So, he started the GI issues, and it was more lower abdominal cramps. And he didn't think nothing of it. He met--he wanted to trace his family tree, so he got his all his cousins together to the seventh generation. That's the one name that he was missing, that he got the name also. And luckily for me, on my side, my aunt, my dad’s sister who's alive, she gave us all the lineage to our side. 00:00:00.143 --> 01:56:35.143 Well, to make the long story short, then, he did have those—I mean, he only went for six days, including travel. So, that means he had three and a half days in India. So, two and half in Bombay, one day in Hyderabad, and then to come back to Bombay to have the flight back, mainly going to Hyderabad to see my mom and my sister’s family. So, you know everything-- and he started the GI symptoms on the third day. So, that got progressively worse, no other symptoms, but because he was going, it was his 50th year reunion for his grade school. So, he called his friends and asked them to arrange that in Hyderabad, for the St. Patrick's High School. And when he reached, when he finished everything in Bombay, and he reached Hyderabad, all the cousins in Bombay said he had a wonderful time. He brought everybody together, but that was his strength, to bring everybody together. 00:00:00.144 --> 01:56:35.144 And then, when he went to Hyderabad, he went to his old classroom, which was four flights up. And all the classmates said he was the first one to climb up, no huffing, no puffing, and the others were all huffing and puffing. And that afternoon, he went to see my sister, after the reunion. And his stomach cramps had gotten worse. And he called me, of course, he used to call me morning and evening. And it was, I still remember the time was about 7:30 in the evening here, which would have been 6 in the morning there. And I was sitting with two of his cousins here, in Westchester. And I said, Prem, please at least now, because it's not gone, see, I’ll have somebody, the GI person was very well-known all over the world, have him come and check you at home. He said, No, if I had--I thought it was a ruptured appendix or gallbladder or something, because the (inaudible) was getting worse. He said, No, it’s not, I would have had a fever. 00:00:00.145 --> 01:56:35.145 He was a great clinician. He said, No, and he said, I'm going into the shower, do I have to--you know, we had solar energy in Hyderabad, so you don't have to switch on and off. He just said any switch to be switched on, I said, No. He went into the shower. He said that, I'm leaving for the airport, I just want to get on the plane and come back home. And he went into the shower and he collapsed. So, the thing about it is that he didn't call back after the shower. So, all I did was, I drove back home, and I started calling him. And he never picked up the phone. 00:00:00.146 --> 01:56:35.146 So, I called the chauffeur that's there, was also the caretaker of our home in Hyderabad. I told him, What's Prem doing? He said, He's in the shower. I said to him, I'm going to call you in 5 minutes I want you to go up and check and come back and tell me. So, he checks and he said, He's still having a shower. I said, Well--because the water was running and they don't usually get into the rooms. So then, I told him, No, this time you need to go into the room, into the bathroom, and let me know. But then, said okay, and then the next thing I know is, he calls me back, and he's screaming, the chauffer is screaming. 00:00:00.147 --> 01:56:35.147 And he says, all he says is, you know they refer to you, for Madam, they call you Amma in Telegu. Says, Amma, Amma. Say, speak up, it’s okay to speak. He said, Sir’s not getting up. That’s how he said it. I said, What do you mean Sir’s not getting up? Says, No, he’s fallen in the shower and he's not getting up. So, I said, Okay, first thing you do is call the ambulance, and then you called the neighbors or something. We have neighbors who I know, so I called him so the neighbor called the doctor, and he went to the house. And then, of course, the whole thing started. My sister, my cousins, everybody was called, and by the time ambulance came, the doctor was working on him. According to them, by that time itself, of course this is the news afterwards, the pupils were dilated, then he was cold, clammy, and no pulse at all. 00:00:00.148 --> 01:56:35.148 So, something happened very suddenly. So, at first they asked me if they wanted an autopsy, but then, he was taken to the hospital. And we begged, I mean, I'm begging the hospital people to work on him. The hospital people, I think, thought I was crazy or something, even though I was a physician. But, by that time, Dr. Motiani, his sister and brother-in-law, they were here, he kept talking and they knew he was gone by that time. And they thought it was at least 40 minutes. So, you know, of course, by the 20 minutes that I came home, and then the few minutes later, so it could have been that he must have collapsed right as soon as he entered the shower. And then of course, the question of autopsy came and then, because we had no answers. So then, I decided no. But then, his cousins had already reached Hyderabad and they were cardiologists, surgeons, everybody, they decided yes. They overruled and did it. 00:00:00.149 --> 01:56:35.149 But, autopsy too, there was--half the people thought, Okay, well there was a ruptured aneurysm or there was a heart attack. And I was like totally like, I don't think I was in shock, I was in touch with reality. But, I was more numb, I think. And it hadn't hit me at all, ‘til I reached Hyderabad to bring him back. Because the girls insisted that now we go and bring him back. They wanted the services here. And in India, everybody kept saying, Oh no it's better here, do it off here. I said, no the girl—so we had to wait for the autopsy to be done. And autopsy, also they couldn’t find anything. So, one of the friends was really bright, she said, Prem had hypertension for about 20 years or so. So, they have left ventricular hypertrophy, means little enlarged heart, and they can have arrhythmia. And during an arrhythmia, they go suddenly like that. Even if you're in the hospital sometimes, you can't get saved. 00:00:00.150 --> 01:56:35.150 So, that's how he went and it was the hardest thing for us because, we would always think, Yeah, it’s the best way to go is to get a sudden death. But little do you realize the other person goes before you. And for me, the way I coped was I had a lot of help and support, so I think initially we just went through the motions. We had to find tickets, we had to go to India. Once we went to India, we had to go to the consulate, the consulate has to--it's a process. The consulate first interviews you, then gives you death certificates, then they release Prem to—then, the third is the transport we have to arrange. And then, once the transport's arranged, then it's like you have to call the people here to receive and go straight to the funeral home. 00:00:00.151 --> 01:56:35.151 Then, we had the—slowly, you know, at first it seems like okay, everything is working fine. So once we got that, we just did you know a memorial for him over there. And then, started the problem, the Emirates and Air India were the only two flights that we could bring him, right? So then, Emirates said we have to stop him in Dubai. The girls said, we're not going without him. So, we had to call the CEO of the Emirates, get special permission to make sure all of us came on the same flight. But then, I think it hit me when I reached there and I saw him. ‘Til that time, I think it was the hardest, I think maybe it was the shock phase or the acceptance was I think when I reached Hyderabad. 00:00:00.152 --> 01:56:35.152 But, you know, a great human being, a good person, person who lived by his name, you know Prem means love, that’s all he spread to everybody he came across, so it was difficult. It still is difficult. People say, Oh, it’ll take a year, I don't think you'll ever get over it. You could move forwards, but I don't think--that's another thin, we haven't had many, any like, big set-backs or tragedies in our lives. And this was like a, how shall I say it, axe on your knees, you know, chopped your knees off. So, that’s why it was really hard to, how should I say, to come to terms. I mean, of course, acceptance comes, but it’s difficult. It’s like, even if you're sinking, you cannot sink. You have to learn to be afloat, so yeah. 00:00:00.153 --> 01:56:35.153 [OS]: Is there anything else that you would like to add that we have not talked about? 00:00:00.154 --> 01:56:35.154 [SUJAYA]: Basically, I think we've talked about everything except Prem’s achievements as a person, as a father, as a friend, as a brother, as a cousin, as, don't know how much more we can talk about him. And I think because of him, he set the pace for all of us, you know. And the family. as a wife, or as a sister, or his parents, or the kids, or his friends, they were all emotionally dependent on him, which is very unusual. And he had those broad shoulders. So, that's why I think it's very hard on even the friends and family, it's so hard for us to have the composure. ‘Cause if we break down, they break down. So, we try hard. But, some point hopefully, we can gather all his stuff to say you know, things about him, so that we can dedicate some bit of the museum to him too. So, we’ll hopefully have a plaque and a little history about him. 00:00:00.155 --> 01:56:35.155 [JJ]: Definitely. So, thank-you Dr. Sujaya Rupani. 00:00:00.156 --> 01:56:35.156 [SUJAYA]: You’re welcome. 00:00:00.157 --> 01:56:35.157 [JJ]: This was the end of the interview for the National Indo-American Museum, time 12:33 PM. 2nd August on a Sunday morning at Dr. Sujaya Rupani’s residence. Thank-you for your, all your stories, thank you to the interviewers, and thank you for speaking about Dr. Prem. The community misses him, I personally have met him twice, and I've only seen him smiling, in his home, and at the gala. So, we wish you all the healing and all the happiness in the world. Thank-you very much. This is Jitesh Jaggi from the National Indo-American Museum signing out.