WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:45:29.000 [JITESH JAGGI]: This is Jitesh Jaggi for the National Indo-American Museum’s Oral History Project today interviewing Gyan Agarwal at his residence in, just outside Chicago. Can you please state and spell your name? 00:00:00.001 --> 00:45:29.001 [GYAN AGARWAL]: My name is Gyan Agarwal. G y a n a g a r w a l. 00:00:00.002 --> 00:45:29.002 [JJ]: And Gyan, when and where were you born? 00:00:00.003 --> 00:45:29.003 [GA]: I was born in a village Bhagwanpur which is, which was part of UP at that time. Now, it is part of Uttarakhand. And I was born in April 1940. 00:00:00.004 --> 00:45:29.004 [JJ]: What languages did you speak growing up? 00:00:00.005 --> 00:45:29.005 [GA]: Growing up, we were speaking Hindi only. 00:00:00.006 --> 00:45:29.006 [JJ]: Was there like Hindi with a certain dialect? 00:00:00.007 --> 00:45:29.007 [GA]: UP dialect if you want to call it. Or a village dialect, more like, because I grew up in a village. 00:00:00.008 --> 00:45:29.008 [JJ]: So, Bhagwanpur, how would you describe it? Was it like small village? 00:00:00.009 --> 00:45:29.009 [GA]: It's a small town between Roorkee and Saharanpur. It’s about seven miles from Roorkee and about maybe 20 miles from Saharanpur. 00:00:00.010 --> 00:45:29.010 [SADHNA AGARWAL]: (inaudible) 00:00:00.011 --> 00:45:29.011 [GA]: And, it’s a small town, probably about few thousand people at that time. Now, it’s a much bigger town. 00:00:00.012 --> 00:45:29.012 [JJ]: And how would you describe your experiences growing up there? Some memories from your childhood. 00:00:00.013 --> 00:45:29.013 [GA]: In a small village, first of all, we didn't have any electricity, no telephone, no running water. It’s a village where the main road was kacha road, dirt road basically. And in growing up, for example, we had three schools in the village. One was what you would call the Kg, first grade, and second grade. And we had a second which was third, fourth, and fifth. And then there was final school which was 6th to 10th grade. And I had a different experience than growing up there, because I finished my second grade in 1948. And when I was ready to go into the third grade, the school from third to fifth was was run by a Muslim gentleman, and he left Bhagwanpur, went to Pakistan. 00:00:00.014 --> 00:45:29.014 [JJ]: That’s a year after Independence. 00:00:00.015 --> 00:45:29.015 [GA]: It was year after Independence, yeah. After partition. And so we had no school in the third, fourth, and fifth grade in the village. So, my father just put me from second grade to the sixth grade. I was one of the smallest kid in the class **laughs** 00:00:00.016 --> 00:45:29.016 [JJ]: That’s interesting (inaudible) Did your family practice a certain religion? And, like, how about you? Did you grow up religious, like in a religious household? 00:00:00.017 --> 00:45:29.017 [GA]: Yes. It was religious household. My father was the chief of the village, what they call lambardar, in the village. And, so basically a prominent family of the village. 00:00:00.018 --> 00:45:29.018 [JJ]: So, I'm glad you touched upon your father. So, I wanted to ask you next was just to describe your parents. What was your father like? Your mother. 00:00:00.019 --> 00:45:29.019 [GA]: My father when he was growing up, actually his father died very early. And so, he had to take over the agriculture business that we had at a very early age. So, he really never got a good education. Though, he was very good in doing all the bahi khata and everything that people did. 00:00:00.020 --> 00:45:29.020 [JJ]: Accounts. 00:00:00.021 --> 00:45:29.021 [GA]: Yeah, accounts and everything else. But he did not have much of a formal education. And my mother could read and write Hindi. I'm not sure how much far more education she had. 00:00:00.022 --> 00:45:29.022 [JJ]: And how was your relationship with both of them? 00:00:00.023 --> 00:45:29.023 [GA]: Very good. Very good relationship. Absolutely. Very loving. 00:00:00.024 --> 00:45:29.024 [JJ]: Perhaps (inaudible) 00:00:00.025 --> 00:45:29.025 [GA]: No, very loving father. He emphasized that we all get a good education. Because we were seven brothers and sisters, total. My eldest one, when he graduated from high school from the village, he was sent to Dehradun for further education. When I finished my high school, because there was no intermediate in the village, I went to Roorkee, which was nearby town. And so, he emphasized that we all get very good education. Not only boys, but girls also. My sister also she finished her master's degree from Roorkee in chemistry department. 00:00:00.026 --> 00:45:29.026 [JJ]: Oh back in those days. 00:00:00.027 --> 00:45:29.027 [GA]: Yeah, back in those days. 00:00:00.028 --> 00:45:29.028 [JJ]: And how was your experience with such a big household with so many siblings? How did you fit in with your other siblings? 00:00:00.029 --> 00:45:29.029 [GA]: I was number four among the brothers. So I was youngest in the brothers. Number five in the order. And I had the two younger sisters. I think our relation was very good, among the brothers. You fight every now and then. But other than that, there was no-- 00:00:00.030 --> 00:45:29.030 [SA]: They took care of you 00:00:00.031 --> 00:45:29.031 [GA]: Yeah, they took care of me. Absolutely. Particularly my eldest sister who was about six, seven years older to me. She took care of me quite a bit. 00:00:00.032 --> 00:45:29.032 [JJ]: I do want to point out also joining us in this room is Gyan’s wife, Mrs. Sadhna? 00:00:00.033 --> 00:45:29.033 [SA]: Sadhna Agarwal. 00:00:00.034 --> 00:45:29.034 [JJ]: Agarwal. Okay, so, I want to talk about--so, we have a good picture about your childhood. When did you come to the United States and what brought you here? 00:00:00.035 --> 00:45:29.035 [GA]: I finished my undergraduate degree from Roorkee in electrical engineering in 1960. And I had absolutely no desire to come to United States at that point. But, it was my professor Department Head of electrical engineering who basically got the ball rolling. He, one day, in the final exams, his (inaudible) basically the servant who sits outside his door, he came to the exam room and told me that, The professor wants to see you. So after the exam, I go to his office and he gave me the application of Purdue University. He said, fill it out, bring it tomorrow. And that was near the end of April, early May. And I had never heard of Purdue University up to that point. We had heard about University of Illinois Urbana, because some of the faculty members had come to Urbana from Roorkee for higher education. But Purdue, I never heard of. 00:00:00.036 --> 00:45:29.036 So, I went to see a distant cousin who was a faculty member in mechanical engineering at Roorkee, that evening. And I asked him, do you know anything about Purdue University. And since he was a mechanical engineer, of course he knew about it. Purdue was famous for mechanical engineering. Because steam tables were done at Purdue and so everybody knew about that. I said, I know nothing about electrical engineering. Anyway, I applied, I got the admission that late. Whatever my Department Head wrote to the Department Head at Purdue. I got a telegram that assistantship granted admission will follow. And that’s how I came. 00:00:00.037 --> 00:45:29.037 [JJ]: So, it was a scholarship. 00:00:00.038 --> 00:45:29.038 [GA]: It was a scholarship. Basically, teaching assistantship. And the reason for all that was because I was number one (inaudible) my class of 240 students at Roorkee. So, he wanted to send me there. 00:00:00.039 --> 00:45:29.039 [JJ]: And before you arrived here--which year was that, you said? 00:00:00.040 --> 00:45:29.040 [GA]: 1960. 00:00:00.041 --> 00:45:29.041 [JJ]: What were, were there any expectations from U. S.? Or, I don’t know, Illinois, Chicago in particular, but like the U. S. in general? Was there a picture of America in your head? 00:00:00.042 --> 00:45:29.042 [GA]: No. I had no picture of America in my head. Because coming from a village where we did not have a radio or television or any such thing, not even a newspaper. As a childhood, I learned nothing about United States. We knew about it when we were in engineering college because some of the textbooks were from United States. But other than that, we had seen some movies also at Roorkee. We used to have a cinema hall at University of Roorkee. And, we had seen quite a few American movies in that cinema hall. That's the only thing that I had seen about United States. 00:00:00.043 --> 00:45:29.043 [JJ]: And when you first arrived here, what were some of the challenges that you faced? 00:00:00.044 --> 00:45:29.044 [GA]: There were quite a few challenges even coming here. Delhi airport was only a domestic airport in 1960. There were no international flights from there. So, I flew from Delhi to Bombay, my first flight on a plane. And then Bombay to New York. And even that flight was a challenge in many ways. Because I was a vegetarian, and I had asked them to write on my ticket that I'm a vegetarian. And so your first meal you’re served and it was non-vegetarian. And so I asked the girl, That I’m a vegetarian. And she was completely confused what vegetarian is. 00:00:00.045 --> 00:45:29.045 Anyway, somehow we managed it, just eating rolls and milk or whatever we could find. The other trouble I had in the plane was--I don't think you have probably seen that, but in those days they used to serve cigarettes and a match with every meal. A small pack of cigarettes with matches. And as a non-smoker sitting in the plane, where half the people were smoking, it was not a particularly good experience. **laughs** Anyway, we made it to New York, with several stops. It was not a jet engine, it was a propeller at that time in 1960 and TWI. I don't know how many stops we made, we made so many stops over the, from Delhi to New York. And then, I flew from New York to Chicago. There was no O’Hare at that time. I came to Midway. And then took a train going from Midway to Purdue, to Lafayette, Indiana. 00:00:00.046 --> 00:45:29.046 [JJ]: How was your experience would you say at Purdue? Just studying there. 00:00:00.047 --> 00:45:29.047 [GA]: Purdue was very nice. Being a university campus, I don't think there was any discrimination on the on the campus as such. There were about maybe 40 to 50 Indian students at that time at Purdue. Mostly, there was only engineering and some in chemistry and physics. There was no LAS at Purdue at that time. And most of them were master’s or PhD, there were only couple of undergraduates that I remember at that time. 00:00:00.048 --> 00:45:29.048 [JJ]: Any other like cultural challenges do you remember, just coming in America, was it like fish out of water experience perhaps? Or, did you acclimate easily? 00:00:00.049 --> 00:45:29.049 [GA]: There were challenges in terms of food initially. There were no Indian groceries available in, not in Lafayette. And particularly, not in United States. There were no Indian grocery stores. And so, as a vegetarian, we had some difficult time. And many times, we ate in the union, Purdue University union, and there for the vegetarian were only two vegetables everyday, peanuts and carrots and mashed potatoes. 00:00:00.050 --> 00:45:29.050 [SA]: Peas 00:00:00.051 --> 00:45:29.051 [GA]: Yeah, peas. Peas and carrots and mashed potatoes. And it was a difficult thing. So, after about six months, I said, Well, I can’t take it. And so I started eating, initially we started with chicken, and then started eating everything. 00:00:00.052 --> 00:45:29.052 [JJ]: And I’m assuming that you didn’t report back home. 00:00:00.053 --> 00:45:29.053 [GA]: Well, no I did. I didn’t report initially, but in ’63, I visited my family. Because, initially when I came, I told them I’m going there for master's degree, because that’s what my admission was. And when I finished that in 1962, January ’62, I wrote to them that I'm continuing for the PhD. And the family was concerned, you know, he's going to America, he’ll probably get married there and all that kind of thing. And so in ’63 they very much wanted me to come and visit them. So, at that time, I told my mother that, everything. And they were okay. They said, Alright. 00:00:00.054 --> 00:45:29.054 [SA]: (inaudible) 00:00:00.055 --> 00:45:29.055 [GA]: There’s nothing they could do **laughs** 00:00:00.056 --> 00:45:29.056 [JJ]: Right, they couldn’t send you with enough vegetables to last for a year. 00:00:00.057 --> 00:45:29.057 [GA]: At home, in the village, we did not even eat, we were strict vegetarian. And the families did not even eat onions and garlic and things like that. That is strict vegetarian. 00:00:00.058 --> 00:45:29.058 [JJ]: So, tell me about your first job opportunity. How was your working experience here? 00:00:00.059 --> 00:45:29.059 [GA]: Well, I started job at Purdue first. Initially, I was teaching assistant and after I got my master’s degree, they promoted me to the instructor level. And so, I was teaching there for five years. My first job was at University of Illinois Chicago in 1965 after I finish my PhD. (inaudible) I went back to India in ‘65 again, after PhD and we got married in ’65. And then both of us came, we came to Chicago directly. And I stayed at University of Illinois for 34 years. So, that was my first and last job. 00:00:00.060 --> 00:45:29.060 [JJ]: So, for 34 years, you were-- 00:00:00.061 --> 00:45:29.061 [GA]: At University of Illinois Chicago. 00:00:00.062 --> 00:45:29.062 [JJ]: Tenured professor or? 00:00:00.063 --> 00:45:29.063 [GA]: I was initially assistant professor in ’65, became associate in ’69, and a full professor in ’73. 00:00:00.064 --> 00:45:29.064 [JJ]: And has your subject of-- 00:00:00.065 --> 00:45:29.065 [GA]: Electrical engineering. 00:00:00.066 --> 00:45:29.066 [JJ]: And has been electrical engineering. 00:00:00.067 --> 00:45:29.067 [GA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.068 --> 00:45:29.068 [JJ]: That is really good to know because, just to see someone like deeply entrenched in Chicago, Illinois basically. 00:00:00.069 --> 00:45:29.069 [GA]: Yeah. We’ve been in Chicago since 1965. 00:00:00.070 --> 00:45:29.070 [JJ]: I see, and throughout, how was your experience working for the university? Was there challenges? 00:00:00.071 --> 00:45:29.071 [GA]: There was challenges initially, because the engineering school was just started as a four-year engineering school. Before that, the campus was at Navy Pier, and they had two years and then the student went to Urbana to finish their degree. In ’65, they start as a four-year engineering school. There was no graduate program initially in engineering. But they did it start a graduate program, PhD program directly with the medical school in bioengineering. And when I came in, I essentially changed my field from electrical engineering to bioengineering. Because, there was an opportunity to work with graduate students. And it took some effort, because I had no background in biology as such. 00:00:00.072 --> 00:45:29.072 But luckily, they had students in that program, some coming from engineering and some who were MDs who were going for PhD. And one of the student who worked with me was a neurosurgeon, and he taught me neurology. I tried to teach him engineering, not that successfully because he left the program after two years. But I had learned enough neurology that I could work in that field pretty well **laughs** 00:00:00.073 --> 00:45:29.073 [JJ]: That is remarkable. What are some of the experiences or individuals, after you arrived here, that you think have had a lasting impact on you? Maybe in your career, maybe in setting up and making America as your home? 00:00:00.074 --> 00:45:29.074 [GA]: There were some discriminations. For example, looking for the place to the stay in ’65. We rented a place, initially wanted to look for a place in Oak Park, because that would have been closest to the campus and taking the train. But we couldn’t find a place in Oak Park, initially. And we ended up living for a year in River Grove. And then, through a friend, an American friend, we found a place in Oak Park. So, in ’66, we moved to Oak Park. And we were some of the, probably few non-white families in Oak Park, at that time. Because, otherwise, it was all white. 00:00:00.075 --> 00:45:29.075 [JJ]: So, who were some of the individuals you remember that have had a lasting impact on you? Does anybody stand out? 00:00:00.076 --> 00:45:29.076 [GA]: There were only eight or ten families in Chicago. Most of them were living, like, what would I say, that Roscoe Street, they were living in Roscoe Street, most of them. primary education is starting from Montessori to first standard, we had several vernacular groups, classes, in between. So, for four years after Montessori, I was at a local Gujarati school, local Parsi school, primarily for girls. And, so they would that take boys until they were about 8 or 9 years of age and then we moved on to a boy’s school. And so, I was there at the Parsi school, our community school, close to where we lived, for four years till I was age of 8 or so. And then moved on to another same kind of school, missionary school, called the Don Bosco High School. St. John Don Bosco. And they had a school that was newly opened, when I first started there. And that's where I graduated from high school, we call that secondary school certificate, SSC, at that time. So, that is my earlier scholastic life. inaudible 00:00:00.077 --> 00:45:29.077 [SA]: Broadway area. 00:00:00.078 --> 00:45:29.078 [GA]: Second and (inaudible) and we had a very good relation with those people. But, they were students at IIT and they were students of course at Northwestern and University of Chicago. But in terms of families, working in Chicago, they were very few families. 00:00:00.079 --> 00:45:29.079 [JJ]: So, would you say that that making friends in the United States was difficult or easy or not? 00:00:00.080 --> 00:45:29.080 [GA]: We don't have too many American friends. Most of our American Friends are through the university cell. There are only a couple of people that I can think of, which were non-university people. Because our association was mostly with the faculty members. 00:00:00.081 --> 00:45:29.081 [JJ]: And were you ever homesick through these years? And how did you stay in touch with your family or friends-- 00:00:00.082 --> 00:45:29.082 [GA]: We have been, initially we didn’t go that frequently, because in ’65 when we came, she went there in ’68, ’67. I didn't go because summer months were the only time I could go. And summer months were the time when we could focus on research. ‘Cause rest of the year, we were teaching. So, the first six years, I did not visit India. I went there in ’71, after ’65. And after that, we have gone there many, many times. In the 80s, we have gone there practically every year. And, there have been very few years where we did not go visit the family. Because, all my siblings are in India, nobody wanted to come to United States. 00:00:00.083 --> 00:45:29.083 [JJ]: You keep referring as we, so, I think I have to ask, so tell us about your wife and where did you meet. How did she come about like joining you here? 00:00:00.084 --> 00:45:29.084 [GA]: Well, she is, we have common friend the family between her family and my family. And I think I was referred to her family by that common individual. And then, they contacted my family her father, who was a very prominent physician in Saharanpur. And my brother had actually met her before I did. And when I went in ’65, that's the first time we met. And I said, Yes, and she said, Yes, and we got married. It was a very quick marriage, and the reason was, in our family, they asked the priest to pick the dates. And I went to India, I think, on 18th of June after my commencement here. And 19th we met. And we were married by, on 7th of July **laughs** 00:00:00.085 --> 00:45:29.085 [JJ]: That is quick. 00:00:00.086 --> 00:45:29.086 [GA]: Because after that, there was no possibility of marriage in that summer. 00:00:00.087 --> 00:45:29.087 [SA]: Horoscope, you know, stars, etcetera. 00:00:00.088 --> 00:45:29.088 [JJ]: Kundalini. 00:00:00.089 --> 00:45:29.089 [GA]: Kundalini. Kundalini was not matching. 00:00:00.090 --> 00:45:29.090 [SA]: Kundalini, yeah. Those auspicious days. 00:00:00.091 --> 00:45:29.091 [GA]: So, everything had to be arranged very quickly. 00:00:00.092 --> 00:45:29.092 [JJ]: Which kind of worked in your favor. 00:00:00.093 --> 00:45:29.093 [GA]: **laughs** 00:00:00.094 --> 00:45:29.094 [JJ]: And was it, would you say, it was easier for her to adjust here? Did she have difficulty-- 00:00:00.095 --> 00:45:29.095 [GA]: No, no, she had a a difficult time adjusting here. She was homesick. 00:00:00.096 --> 00:45:29.096 [SA]: Very homesick. 00:00:00.097 --> 00:45:29.097 [GA]: Very homesick. She was also expecting in September. And in those days, there was no possibility of any family member coming here. Because she had other siblings at home, so there was no possibility of her mother coming, or my mother coming or anybody else coming. So we had a very hard time with the firstborn child. As a matter of fact, second time, when we had our second child in ’71, we went to India for the delivery. Our second-- 00:00:00.098 --> 00:45:29.098 [JJ]: Just to have support for it? 00:00:00.099 --> 00:45:29.099 [GA]: Just to have the support basically. So, it’ll be easier for her. 00:00:00.100 --> 00:45:29.100 [JJ]: So, I’ m going to break the mold for a second here, and because she’s present here, would you mind adding something to this? How was your experience coming here? And were you adjusting to American life? 00:00:00.101 --> 00:45:29.101 [SA]: Well, I made a lot of friends, in the neighborhood where we lived in River Grove. And in those days, most women stayed home. Now, almost everybody works. But so, lot of neighborhood ladies became my friend. And they found me a very exotic person, they had never seen an Indian person before, they never seen anybody wearing a sari, and they had never seen anybody with long hair, because in those days, all women had short hair. Everybody that I knew over there had short hair. So, I had longer hair. So, I was known in that neighborhood. People who didn't know me yet, they would say, You know there's an Indian girl who lives in that apartment, she wears a long robe, and she has long hair. That’s how I was described. **laughs** 00:00:00.102 --> 00:45:29.102 [JJ]: So you made friends with them? 00:00:00.103 --> 00:45:29.103 [SA]: I made lots of friends and that’s what helped me overcome the homesickness. I was very homesick, I missed my parents and my siblings and the environment. Indian environment. 00:00:00.104 --> 00:45:29.104 [JJ]: Thank-you very much. So, tell me about your kids and what was the experience of parenthood in America? 00:00:00.105 --> 00:45:29.105 [GA]: We have two daughters. The elder one is Monica born in ‘66 and in Chicago. And the younger one is Madita and she was born in ‘71 in Saharanpur, in her hometown, in India. And Monica has a undergraduate degree from Northwestern in bioengineering and master’s from UIC in bioengineering. And Madita has an undergraduate degree from University of Michigan in psychology and a PhD from New York University in clinical psychology. They are both working. 00:00:00.106 --> 00:45:29.106 Monica is now living in Miami, Florida with her husband who was a classmate of hers at Northwestern in bioengineering and then he finished his MD from University of Chicago. And he was a faculty member at John Hopkins for many, many years. He stayed at John Hopkins for actually 29 years and just moved to University of Miami last year as Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care. Madita lives in Santa Monica with her husband who is an ophthalmologist. And they are enjoying their life in California. **laughs** 00:00:00.107 --> 00:45:29.107 [JJ]: How was the experience, would you say, for you as a parent when they were born here. Did you feel out of place? Did you feel,had you (inaudible) ready or were there challenges? 00:00:00.108 --> 00:45:29.108 [GA]: Well, we were not ready. Nobody’s ready as a parent. 00:00:00.109 --> 00:45:29.109 [JJ]: Especially in a foreign land. 00:00:00.110 --> 00:45:29.110 [GA]: Particularly when you have no support from the family. So, it was a difficult time, initially, (inaudible) we have to consider that. But the kids did very well. Luckily, when they were growing up, Hema Rajagopalan came to United States in ‘75 and she was living in Forest Park at that time. And, Monica started, was one of the very early students to learn Bharatanatyam from her. And later on, Madita also joined and learned Bharatnatyam. Both of them did their arangetram. And that way, they got quite a bit of education about India and Indian religion, as well. Learning for the dance. Which, we probably did not provide initially because there were no temples at that time. 00:00:00.111 --> 00:45:29.111 I think the first temple was made in, I would say, ’78. The Lemont temple was started I believe in ’77, if I'm not wrong. And it took about two years to have the first part, the initial part, where they had the small building. The big building was made later. 00:00:00.112 --> 00:45:29.112 [SA]: Several years. It took several years. 00:00:00.113 --> 00:45:29.113 [GA]: Six, seven years to build the temple. And then we started going to temple also. 00:00:00.114 --> 00:45:29.114 [JJ]: And especially because, it’s so interesting, there’s so much contrast between your childhood and your children’s childhood. So, when you are not able to go to India, or when you’re at home, what is the thing that you miss most about India? 00:00:00.115 --> 00:45:29.115 [GA]: I think mostly the family. In terms of food these days, everything is available here, so I don't think I miss the Indian food. But families, we still miss. Five of my siblings are gone, already. Only my younger sister is living. But, we have nephews and nieces and so many other family members in India. Most my family is still in India. 00:00:00.116 --> 00:45:29.116 [JJ]: Did you get a chance--did anybody get a chance to visit you here? 00:00:00.117 --> 00:45:29.117 [GA]: One of my brothers came and two of my sisters have visited here. 00:00:00.118 --> 00:45:29.118 [JJ]: You mentioned, like, for now, only one sibling is living. 00:00:00.119 --> 00:45:29.119 [GA]: Yes. 00:00:00.120 --> 00:45:29.120 [JJ]: That must be hard, like getting news from overseas. 00:00:00.121 --> 00:45:29.121 [GA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.122 --> 00:45:29.122 [JJ]: Did you have to like, just make emergency plans going back or anything like that? 00:00:00.123 --> 00:45:29.123 [GA]: Well, no, I couldn't go at the at the death of my siblings, only for my father and mother I did go there when they died. Most of the problem, (inaudible) I attended very few marriages in my family, because most of the marriages happen sometimes in November or January, February. And when the classes are on, you cannot take off. So, I have missed most of the functions in the family, growing up **laughs** But there’s nothing you can do about it. 00:00:00.124 --> 00:45:29.124 [JJ]: So what prompted you to become a U. S. citizen and did your spouse become a U. S. citizen at the same time? 00:00:00.125 --> 00:45:29.125 [GA]: Yes, I became a-- no, she did not become U. S. citizen same time. I became a U. S. citizen in ’78. And the reason for me to become U. S. citizen at that time was, I'm a member of IEEE, Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, and they had recommended my name to FDA from one of the advisory committee. And when I applied to the FDA, and they looked at my application, they said you are qualified but you're not a U. S. citizen. 00:00:00.126 --> 00:45:29.126 [JJ]: What’s the FDA? 00:00:00.127 --> 00:45:29.127 [GA]: Food and Drug Administration. And so, said, Because you're not United States citizen we cannot appoint you on the advisory committee. So, I decided, well it was about time, because if I’m going to stay here, I should become a U. S. citizen. 00:00:00.128 --> 00:45:29.128 [JJ]: And then did you go ahead and become-- 00:00:00.129 --> 00:45:29.129 [GA]: Yes. I became member of the advisory committee, I was on the advisory committee for five years. 00:00:00.130 --> 00:45:29.130 [JJ]: Oh that is interesting. Do you want to talk more about that? Like what was your role-- 00:00:00.131 --> 00:45:29.131 [GA]: This advisory committee was about a neurological devices, devices which are either implanted inside the body or are external devices related to neurology. And this committee did the approval of such devices. So, I was the engineering member of that committee. 00:00:00.132 --> 00:45:29.132 [JJ]: So, coming back to the question, you said, your spouse became a U. S. citizen after you? 00:00:00.133 --> 00:45:29.133 [GA]: She became a U. S. citizen I think in 1980. 00:00:00.134 --> 00:45:29.134 [SA]: Two years later. 00:00:00.135 --> 00:45:29.135 [GA]: Two years later. 00:00:00.136 --> 00:45:29.136 [JJ]: What do you think are some of the contrasts you have seen over your life between India and U. S.? How things function perhaps at the culture? 00:00:00.137 --> 00:45:29.137 [GA]: U. S. has changed so much in last 60 years. In 1960, things were very different. You trusted almost everybody. Living at Purdue, I don't think we ever locked our apartment there. There was no problem of any kind. There were no issues that I remember off of drugs. Alcohol was not issue too, at Purdue, for a good reason, because Purdue did not allow alcohol in West Lafayette at all. **laughs** 00:00:00.138 --> 00:45:29.138 [JJ]: A different time. 00:00:00.139 --> 00:45:29.139 [GA]: University controlled the small village for a bit. 00:00:00.140 --> 00:45:29.140 [JJ]: What stands out for you like in stark contrast with what you see over time in India and U. S.? 00:00:00.141 --> 00:45:29.141 [GA]: India has changed drastically too over 60 years. I think it has become more western. The lot of things that Indians do that Indian Americans don’t do here. 00:00:00.142 --> 00:45:29.142 [JJ]: Would you say that’s a, is change towards the good or is there no quality attached to it? 00:00:00.143 --> 00:45:29.143 [GA]: Some is for good. I think they’re better educated. They know more about the world than we know when growing up, through the internet and everything else. Some of it is not that good, because you know, we have found that alcohol is very common, for example in parties and everything else, in India. It's not so common, everyday life here. At least, most of the friends that we have. 00:00:00.144 --> 00:45:29.144 [JJ]: That’s interesting, usually, because stereotypically you would hear the opposite. People would associate India and with sobriety. Like-- 00:00:00.145 --> 00:45:29.145 [GA]: No, I think it’s the other way around. At least some of the Indian Americans that we know here, and the Indians there, I’m not comparing the (inaudible) Americans here, but the Indian Americans, you don’t see everyday alcohol consumption, things like that. 00:00:00.146 --> 00:45:29.146 [JJ]: So, that brings me to next question, were you involved with the Indian community here? And in what--maybe organizations you want to talk about, community you want to talk about. 00:00:00.147 --> 00:45:29.147 [GA]: Initially, as a matter, my wife was involved quite a bit. There used to be a Gita-- 00:00:00.148 --> 00:45:29.148 [SA]: Hindu society. 00:00:00.149 --> 00:45:29.149 [GA]: Hindu society which used to meet in Oak Park in one of the community centers for many, many years, they met in Oak Park. 00:00:00.150 --> 00:45:29.150 [SA]: Before we had the temples. 00:00:00.151 --> 00:45:29.151 [GA]: Before we had temples. And we used to have Sunday service there. Basically, bhajans and sometimes some dances and this and that. 00:00:00.152 --> 00:45:29.152 [SA]: Some talks 00:00:00.153 --> 00:45:29.153 [GA]: And talks-- 00:00:00.154 --> 00:45:29.154 [SA]: Some lectures. 00:00:00.155 --> 00:45:29.155 [GA]: She was social secretary of that group for several years. That was probably the only religious thing going on initially. And that, I think, started in ’67 or ’68. 00:00:00.156 --> 00:45:29.156 [SA]: ’69, yeah. 00:00:00.157 --> 00:45:29.157 [GA]: Maybe about ’69. 00:00:00.158 --> 00:45:29.158 [SA]: And then, lasted for many years. 00:00:00.159 --> 00:45:29.159 [JJ]: How did you, how was your involvement with the Indian community? Was there other nonreligious ways that you connected with them? 00:00:00.160 --> 00:45:29.160 [GA]: Yeah, we had Indian community friends, we met them. But our involvement was more with the university faculty members who, we used to have monthly dinners. In Oak Park there was a group we used to meet-- 00:00:00.161 --> 00:45:29.161 [JJ]: Of Indians? 00:00:00.162 --> 00:45:29.162 [GA]: Americans, mostly Americans and few Indians. So, I think we were more involved with the university faculty than with the-- 00:00:00.163 --> 00:45:29.163 [SA]: But we were also involved with that-- 00:00:00.164 --> 00:45:29.164 [GA]: And then, we were very much involved with the Bharatanatyam, once Hema came. And then we were, actually every weekend was involved with the Bharatanatyam classes for the kids. 00:00:00.165 --> 00:45:29.165 [JJ]: Any other organizations? Indian organizations you’ve been involved with? (inaudible) 00:00:00.166 --> 00:45:29.166 [GA]: I have volunteered with the Indian American, Indo-American Center. She has volunteered for Indo-American Center too, whenever they had their functions. But I was not involved in terms of the administration there or joining the board and things like that. And then, I have been involved with the Indo-American Heritage Museum since 2007 when they started. So, I’m one of the founding members of the Indo-American Heritage Museum and now NIAM. 00:00:00.167 --> 00:45:29.167 [JJ]: And what was your role, what has been your role with the organization? 00:00:00.168 --> 00:45:29.168 [GA]: First two years, I was vice president. Dorothie Shah was the president at that time. The next 7 years, I was treasurer, basically managing the whole thing in terms of not only finances, but working as a secretary as well. And then the last few years, I have been in several committees. Right now, I’m part of the governor’s committee. 00:00:00.169 --> 00:45:29.169 [JJ]: What would you think, what would you say, what's the basically, the kind of impact do you think that Indian Americans have made in America, on America, but specifically also maybe Illinois or Chicago? Do you think there’s an impact that Indian Americans as a community has made here? 00:00:00.170 --> 00:45:29.170 [GA]: Well, Indian American community has made lot of impact. You look at all the big tech companies, practically every head is an Indian. And lot of the companies initially started in West Coast, I would say about 25 to 30% were started by Indians. And they have made a tremendous impact. 00:00:00.171 --> 00:45:29.171 [JJ]: And this question, I think, I can specifically ask-- 00:00:00.172 --> 00:45:29.172 [GA]: In Illinois also, you look at the faculty members, there lot of Indian faculty members, particularly engineering and also in medicine. Both at UIC, Northwestern, University of Chicago. 00:00:00.173 --> 00:45:29.173 [JJ]: Yeah, I was going to ask you, just like--because everybody can talk about the corporate impact, but like, I think you can talk more about, like if there’s impact on academia. 00:00:00.174 --> 00:45:29.174 [GA]: Oh yeah, academia, there was a tremendous impact. 00:00:00.175 --> 00:45:29.175 [JJ]: You would say that? 00:00:00.176 --> 00:45:29.176 [GA]: Oh yes. 00:00:00.177 --> 00:45:29.177 [JJ]: Alright, so a little bit more about you now, what do you like to do in your leisure time? Are you retired now? 00:00:00.178 --> 00:45:29.178 [GA]: I have been retired for 20 years now. 00:00:00.179 --> 00:45:29.179 [JJ]: I see. What do you enjoy doing other than-- 00:00:00.180 --> 00:45:29.180 [GA]: Reading is my passion, basically. 00:00:00.181 --> 00:45:29.181 [JJ]: Any specific genres, authors? 00:00:00.182 --> 00:45:29.182 [GA]: I don't read that many novels. I enjoy reading books about science, not only the medical science field that I was involved in, but other science in general, which I enjoy very much. And, whenever I get time to read it--these days we spend quite a bit of time doing exercise in the morning. We get up at 8 o’ clock, do exercise, have our breakfast at 10 o’ clock, leisurely lunch, read something in between, work on the computer, read emails, something like that. 00:00:00.183 --> 00:45:29.183 [SA]: (inaudible) 00:00:00.184 --> 00:45:29.184 [GA]: So, we are having--we play cards with friends through the internet these days. 00:00:00.185 --> 00:45:29.185 [JJ]: Is that a change that pandemic, the covid pandemic has brought you? 00:00:00.186 --> 00:45:29.186 [SA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.187 --> 00:45:29.187 [GA]: Yeah, yeah. Other thing that has happened is we talk to the kids on Zoom every weekend. Earlier it was phone calls, now and then. And now, at least we get to see them at weekend. 00:00:00.188 --> 00:45:29.188 [JJ]: Do you have any grandkids as well? 00:00:00.189 --> 00:45:29.189 [GA]: We have four grandchildren. The oldest one is 27, 28 actually. He finished his PhD in electrical engineering from Northwestern, last year. 00:00:00.190 --> 00:45:29.190 [JJ]: Is that the first daughter’s? 00:00:00.191 --> 00:45:29.191 [GA]: Yeah, that's Monica son. 00:00:00.192 --> 00:45:29.192 [JJ]: It seems like you have had an impact, academically on their-- 00:00:00.193 --> 00:45:29.193 [GA]: I don’t know whether he wanted to follow me or that was his choice **laughs** 00:00:00.194 --> 00:45:29.194 [JJ]: Or he wanted to follow his mother who wanted to follow you. 00:00:00.195 --> 00:45:29.195 [GA]: So, he finished his PhD last year from Northwestern, electric engineering. And now he’s working for a company here in Chicago. And just recently, he got engaged to an Indian girl, which was very nice. Our second grandchild is finishing undergraduate from Northwestern. Her major is biology and art. Our third grandchild, from the younger daughter, he is doing engineering at Berkely, which is a mix of mechanical and electrical engineering, what they call energy engineering. That’s what he’s working on. So, he's taking courses both for mechanical and electrical engineering. And our youngest grandchild, she's just finishing high school in California. And she's going to Berkeley too, by the way **laughs** in Fall. 00:00:00.196 --> 00:45:29.196 [JJ]: So, it seems like your father's emphasis on education has kind of lived through generations, I would say. 00:00:00.197 --> 00:45:29.197 [GA]: I hope so. There’s only the second one, second generation **laughs** 00:00:00.198 --> 00:45:29.198 [JJ]: So, are there any recommendations you would give to someone who's a new immigrant in India, who’s planning to leave India and come here? Or who’s here recently. What would you say as compared to, all these lessons that you’ve learned over the years. Adjusting your-- 00:00:00.199 --> 00:45:29.199 [GA]: I think somehow people had the idea that life is easy in the United States. At least, lot of people initially thought in the 60s, when I think of looking back. But the life was never easy in the United States. Immigrants work much, much harder than the natives to achieve the same thing. And there's no question about that. 00:00:00.200 --> 00:45:29.200 [JJ]: And that was your experience-- 00:00:00.201 --> 00:45:29.201 [GA]: That was my experience too, yeah. 00:00:00.202 --> 00:45:29.202 [JJ]: And do you think that-- 00:00:00.203 --> 00:45:29.203 [GA]: To succeed, you have to work harder than the Americans have to. 00:00:00.204 --> 00:45:29.204 [JJ]: Is there anything else you would like to talk about your life in America that we probably haven’t covered? In India even. 00:00:00.205 --> 00:45:29.205 [GA]: I think, life has been good here. We have enjoyed living here. And our kids have done quite well. And grandkids hopefully will do well too. **laughs** 00:00:00.206 --> 00:45:29.206 [JJ]: So that concludes our interview. Thank-you very much, Mr. Gyan. 00:00:00.207 --> 00:45:29.207 [GA]: You’re most welcome. 00:00:00.208 --> 00:45:29.208 [JJ]: And thank-you to your wife, Mrs. Sadhna, for joining us. This concludes our interview for the National Indo-American Museum’s Oral History project.