WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:51:57.000 [JITESH JAGGI]: This is Jitesh Jaggi from the National Indo-American Museum for our oral history project. Today, at Mrs. Prem Lata Sharma’s residence, interviewed by Shristi Dear. 00:00:00.001 --> 00:51:57.001 [SHRISTI DEAR]: Hi, could you please state and spell your name? 00:00:00.002 --> 00:51:57.002 [PREM LATA SHARMA]: My first name is Prem P-R-E-M Lata is my middle name is L-A-T-A Sharma last name S-H-A-R-M-A. 00:00:00.003 --> 00:51:57.003 [SD]: And when and where were you born? 00:00:00.004 --> 00:51:57.004 [PS]: I was born in Shimla which is a city, northeast city in India. 00:00:00.005 --> 00:51:57.005 [SD]: And how would you describe your experiences growing up in Shimla? 00:00:00.006 --> 00:51:57.006 [PS]: Actually, I have no memories of that because I was very little when we came to Delhi and that was, I was couple of, maybe one year old, 2 years old, or something like that. 00:00:00.007 --> 00:51:57.007 [SD]: So did you spend the majority of your childhood in Delhi? 00:00:00.008 --> 00:51:57.008 [PS]: Yes 00:00:00.009 --> 00:51:57.009 [SD]: Could you talk about your experiences growing up in Delhi? Oh I had a good experience and bad experience, both, you know, because when we moved to Delhi, that was the time of partition in India. And 1947, I think that is the first memory I have of Delhi. And there was lot of tension going on at that time and I was very little, didn’t understand what's going on. But, you know not being aware of all the seriousness of that, I had good time because we have some dogs in the house and a lot of space in our place. so that was a good experience, you know. 00:00:00.010 --> 00:51:57.010 [SD]: So who did you live with in Delhi? How many siblings did you? Were your parents there as well? 00:00:00.011 --> 00:51:57.011 [PS]: I had come from a very large family, I have six brothers and two sisters, I mean, sister means, including me also. But when I grew up, because I'm the youngest of all. So when I grew up, I really didn't have too much of company from my siblings. The difference between me and my youngest brother who is older, of course, than me is almost 8 years. So, he was in high school when I had any sense what is going on. 00:00:00.012 --> 00:51:57.012 [SD]: And you said that you came to Delhi during the partition, but you don't remember much. But can you tell me a little bit about what you do remember? Any scenes that come to mind? 00:00:00.013 --> 00:51:57.013 [PS]: There is only one scene which I remember, and that was that where we were living, near that place there was, everyone was talking about it and we went out and we saw it, that there was a dead body on the street of that, lying there and people were just trying to take care of that. And then they pushed me away, because nobody wanted as a child to see and witness all that. Basically that is what it is, they were trying to keep us away, you know, from all the tensions and the war and the killings going on. 00:00:00.014 --> 00:51:57.014 [SD]: And what were your interests like, growing up, how did you spend your time? 00:00:00.015 --> 00:51:57.015 [PS]: I used to be very good in athletics, sports and things like that. And then I got interested into my paintings and sketching, things like that. 00:00:00.016 --> 00:51:57.016 [SD]: And did you attend college in Delhi? 00:00:00.017 --> 00:51:57.017 [PS]: Yes, I went to the University, I did my master’s there, and then I got enrolled into my pre Ph.D. program which I finished. But then I got married and didn’t finish my Ph.D. 00:00:00.018 --> 00:51:57.018 [SD]: We’ll get back to the marriage in a little bit, but I want to ask about your parents, what were they like? 00:00:00.019 --> 00:51:57.019 [PS]: My parents, when I grew up there, they were already in their Middle Ages because my mom was 45 when I was born and my dad was 48. They were so busy with the other siblings at that time that I was sort of like, not existing in a sense, and my older sister mostly took care of me. So I used to consider her as my mom. When she got married and I was only 6 years, not even 6, but 3-4 years old, 6 years old. After that I had to take care of myself. 00:00:00.020 --> 00:51:57.020 [SD]: So what age did you get married? 00:00:00.021 --> 00:51:57.021 [PS]: 22 00:00:00.022 --> 00:51:57.022 [SD]: And can you talk about how you met your husband and what that was like? 00:00:00.023 --> 00:51:57.023 [PS]: I met him after the wedding. And it was an arranged marriage, so, you know, that was very common in those days, so it was part of the norm, accepted it. 00:00:00.024 --> 00:51:57.024 [SD]: Did you know that parents were, you know, sending your information out to prospective suitors? Or, what was that? 00:00:00.025 --> 00:51:57.025 [PS]: I would hear it from here and there. Sometimes mom will say also, “Okay, you are a guest for a few days here” or something like that. So, it was like, you know, I knew that they are looking for someone. 00:00:00.026 --> 00:51:57.026 [SD]: I see. And so how, how did you decide? was it a mutual decision that you wanted to marry your husband or was it decided for you? 00:00:00.027 --> 00:51:57.027 [PS]: It was decided for me. 00:00:00.028 --> 00:51:57.028 [JJ]: Were you scared? Were you excited? What was-- 00:00:00.029 --> 00:51:57.029 [SD]: yea, how do you feel about that? 00:00:00.030 --> 00:51:57.030 [PS]: You know, in those days if you are like, beyond 18 years of age, you know, there was an uneasiness among the girls also to get married. Because you could not do anything else. But just to get married and maybe get a little freedom. Because, when you are with your parents, they would like to keep you controlled, and not give you the freedom to go anywhere and things like that. So it was a way out, to get00:07:17.00 something, you know. 00:00:00.031 --> 00:51:57.031 [JJ]: I’ve never heard this perspective. I’m so glad you said this. 00:00:00.032 --> 00:51:57.032 [SD]: That’s understandable. So did you ever expect to leave India when you got married? 00:00:00.033 --> 00:51:57.033 [PS]: I think that was pretty much in the picture at that time, yes. Once I knew who I'm going to get married to, then my brother was suggesting that it will be good if you get out of India and get some experience there, get the training there, and then you have better prospects here. 00:00:00.034 --> 00:51:57.034 [SD]: And where did you, how much time did you spend in India before you moved abroad? 00:00:00.035 --> 00:51:57.035 [PS]: 3 years. 00:00:00.036 --> 00:51:57.036 [SD]: And so you went abroad. Where did you go first? 00:00:00.037 --> 00:51:57.037 [PS]: We came to England, and we spent some time there. He was doing his internship and house--they used to call it house job. And so we were there for 2 ½ years or so 00:00:00.038 --> 00:51:57.038 [SD]: And what was it like, being newly married in England, being an Indian couple? 00:00:00.039 --> 00:51:57.039 [PS]: Well, we were three years into the marriage and England was little damp in that sense. You know, whatever we expected and saw in the magazines and things like that, the picture we had in our mind was not exactly that. There was sort of discrimination also and everything was small, in a sense. And it was not the same feeling, what we had or imagined in India 00:00:00.040 --> 00:51:57.040 [SD]: And you said you faced discrimination. What kind of discrimination? 00:00:00.041 --> 00:51:57.041 [PS]: You know, because also on our part we were coming from India, we were also wearing our own costumes and things like that, not used to the western clothes as much so wherever we would go, there will be staring eyes at us, and things like that. When we go to the stores, they will say that if you're buying something. even my husband, when he was buying a belt, the shopkeeper will say that “This- is- a- belt” you know, to the extent that they think that we are just coming from some village, we have no knowledge, we are not educated. Sometimes they will ask us “Oh, do you have schools in India? “I said, “No, we used to study on the sand.” **laughs** 00:00:00.042 --> 00:51:57.042 [SD]: So was there a language barrier when you came? or did you feel comfortable? 00:00:00.043 --> 00:51:57.043 [PS]: No, I mean, slowly we got used to, because we learned English in our schools and colleges, but we were not very fluent in speaking. So slowly we got to, you know, practice that, and became a little more fluent. 00:00:00.044 --> 00:51:57.044 [SD]: There was a difference in dress attire. Did you feel, how was it like wearing Indian clothes in the UK and at what point, or did you decide to change? 00:00:00.045 --> 00:51:57.045 [PS]: You know, by the time you become very conscious about what is going on around you and things like that, it takes time. So it took us sometime also. And I also got pregnant you know right away, and so you know there was not so much time and the exposure to other people, meeting new people, so it took a little time, I would say before we could realize that we should be looking not different but just like them so they will not stare at us. 00:00:00.046 --> 00:51:57.046 [SD]: And when did you, what does your husband do? 00:00:00.047 --> 00:51:57.047 [PS]: He's a physician, surgeon. 00:00:00.048 --> 00:51:57.048 [SD]: So when he was at work, what was your day like? 00:00:00.049 --> 00:51:57.049 [PS]: I used to stay home. When we were in Brighton, I learned some sewing on the commercial machines also, so I joined that. And probably did it for 3 weeks and then we moved from there to a different city and then I was pregnant, so everything just ended. 00:00:00.050 --> 00:51:57.050 [SD]: and when did you move to the United States? 00:00:00.051 --> 00:51:57.051 [PS]: In 1971. 00:00:00.052 --> 00:51:57.052 [SD]: And there is differences in your expectations of England versus your experiences in the United States. Was it the same in the United States? 00:00:00.053 --> 00:51:57.053 [PS]: No, the United States very different. It’s a huge country, the land was open and available, and the weather is very00:12:20.00 different. When we came in summer, it was warm, and people were a little different, you know, they were more open and friendly, and there was a group of people, those who, when he came to the hospital, there was a lot of people from Asian countries, so we felt little more comfortable. 00:00:00.054 --> 00:51:57.054 [SD]: When you first came to the United States where did you go? 00:00:00.055 --> 00:51:57.055 [PS]: To Massachusetts. Worcester, Massachusetts. 00:00:00.056 --> 00:51:57.056 [SD]: Did you have, how was it like, adjusting to America, did you have family support here? 00:00:00.057 --> 00:51:57.057 [PS]: Yes, we have, one of my brother was already in America, the other brother who was in England at the same time we were there, he moved a couple of months before us. So he was also there but not in the same city 00:00:00.058 --> 00:51:57.058 [SD]: So what was the decision that made you come to Chicago? 00:00:00.059 --> 00:51:57.059 [PS]: Oh, to Chicago. We came to Chicago because I think my brother was here also. So we wanted to be close to-- when he was looking for the residency program, wherever you got accepted. 00:00:00.060 --> 00:51:57.060 [SD]: And so, your husband’s work was the primary mover, the primary reason that you guys moved. How did you feel about that? 00:00:00.061 --> 00:51:57.061 [PS]: You know my education was in literature, Hindi literature, and it didn’t have much of a use here, and also initially I was, you know, in England I was pregnant. I lost the child there. Then we came to America, I got pregnant again and so most of those initial stages I passed in taking care of the family. I did try to learn some language, computer languages, but then again, we moved to Chicago, so there was a lot of moving and pregnancies that I did not pursue any of the careers at that time. And there were, you know, we were not used to having babysitters, which was something very strange to us, so I took care of the children. 00:00:00.062 --> 00:51:57.062 [SD]: I'm sorry about your loss. How did that feel in England, going through that, kind of alone, do you want to talk about that? 00:00:00.063 --> 00:51:57.063 [PS]: It was very, kind of a traumatic experience because we were into the sixth year of our marriage and we wanted a child and when it happened, he did not survive. He was a full-term baby, but he did not survive. And that was very traumatic for both of us and specially for him also he got his-- he started having the diabetes at that time. And since then, he has been diabetic. But yes, it was hard on both of us, and we didn't have family. My brother came later and joined us, but we had to deal with it on our own, you know, it was very, very difficult. And not having any support from the family. It was a traumatic experience. 00:00:00.064 --> 00:51:57.064 [SD]: And how many children do you have? 00:00:00.065 --> 00:51:57.065 [PS]: I have now 2 living. 00:00:00.066 --> 00:51:57.066 [SD]: And how was it, raising children in the United States? What was that like? 00:00:00.067 --> 00:51:57.067 [PS]: It was on our own, we did not have again, the family close by. So it was hard, you know, by yourself. His calls were very frequent and every other day he would stay in the hospital. So taking care of two kids, and the difference between both of them is very small, like 1 1/2 years old. So just taking care of 2 toddlers, and baby, in a sense, was very difficult and tiring also and frustrating. 00:00:00.068 --> 00:51:57.068 [JJ]: Earlier you mentioned your parents were old by the time they had you--they were middle-aged. And that also did not leave a lot of attention for you directly from your mom and dad. Did that have any effect, did that translate on what you did? Did you give them any extra attention because of that or were you withdrawn? 00:00:00.069 --> 00:51:57.069 [PS]: I think it did have an effect, that whatever we did, that I did not get, I wanted to provide that, you know. You feel like that you want to give them everything what you did not have, you know, so you go a step further. 00:00:00.070 --> 00:51:57.070 [SD]: And what were the challenges of raising Indian children in America? Indian American children? 00:00:00.071 --> 00:51:57.071 [PS]: When they were little, of course, you know, we would tell them what to do and they will do, it you know. But as they grew older and they became teenagers and they were exposed to their peers and other, you know, friends and other community members, of course, they wanted different things than what we wanted them to do. And there was always some kind of a struggle going on and you know -- So, it has been hard, and we didn't have anybody to exchange or change hands with, in a sense. If I'm tired, then I'm tired and, I mean, what can you do? And so I was alone in a sense, raising them, because he had no time So, you know, we had to go through a lot of values, cultural values we wanted to teach them. And as they grew older, they became different, the individuals, independent. So sometimes there were struggles. 00:00:00.072 --> 00:51:57.072 [SD]: So when you came to, you said teaching them values, can you give an example of values that you had assimilated as someone born and raised in India was something that you tried to teach your children that maybe didn't work? 00:00:00.073 --> 00:51:57.073 [PS]: So, initially, we didn’t want them to date. That was one of the issues and when people will ask that will you let them date? I said that we’ll try to control that as much as possible, but we don't want them to just date anyone. If we want them to date someone at least they should get the approval, who they want to date and get married to. So there were some kind of cultural values we wanted to instill in them, and I don't know how much successful we became but the struggle was there. 00:00:00.074 --> 00:51:57.074 [SD]: So did that independence, their wanting to be independent, come across as disrespectful, or how did you adapt to that? 00:00:00.075 --> 00:51:57.075 [PS]: No, they were never disrespectful, never. I think that was something which I was very particular about it, that they did not use any foul language, that they not be disrespectful to any, anyone. And I think that they were very good. 00:00:00.076 --> 00:51:57.076 [SD]: So you essentially married at a young age, you then moved to the UK and then to the United States where you were raising two children, pretty much by yourself. How did you, how was your relationship with your husband even from starting off when you first got married and how did it evolve then, many years later? Was it awkward at first? primary education is starting from Montessori to first standard, we had several vernacular groups, classes, in between. So, for four years after Montessori, I was at a local Gujarati school, local Parsi school, primarily for girls. And, so they would that take boys until they were about 8 or 9 years of age and then we moved on to a boy’s school. And so, I was there at the Parsi school, our community school, close to where we lived, for four years till I was age of 8 or so. And then moved on to another same kind of school, missionary school, called the Don Bosco High School. St. John Don Bosco. And they had a school that was newly opened, when I first started there. And that's where I graduated from high school, we call that secondary school certificate, SSC, at that time. So, that is my earlier scholastic life. inaudible 00:00:00.077 --> 00:51:57.077 [PS]: You know, I think it is very strange in India that when you get married, specially do an arranged marriage, there is a sense of surrender, you know, you surrender, and you suddenly adopt the other family, your in-laws into, as your own family. And that happened to me also when the in-laws were very nice to me and they became my family. And you know it is when you surrender and there is a complete, like, you depend on someone, you love someone, you open up with all your feelings and you talk about things and you communicate and you’re transparent and all those things come with that and slowly the love matures later, you know. There is always something to look for, something more to find out about the other person. And specially, we were away from each other initially because he was in Lucknow, and I was in Kanpur or Delhi and things like that. So, we were not meeting as much, you know. So there was always, you know, looking to meet him and know him more. So that was basically how we started. And then when we came here the maturity started in a sense. We took care of our children, so there was something common now, common interest, so this is how we mature into marriage. 00:00:00.078 --> 00:51:57.078 [SD]: when you look back, do you remember your wedding date, do you remember seeing your husband for the first time? 00:00:00.079 --> 00:51:57.079 [PS]: I saw him but not really completely. Yeah, because of my half veil, I didn't have my full veil, because that was criticized for but I have my half veil, and I actually talked to him when we were going to Kanpur in the train. 00:00:00.080 --> 00:51:57.080 [SD]: For the first time. 00:00:00.081 --> 00:51:57.081 [PS]: for the first time. And how was that conversation? 00:00:00.082 --> 00:51:57.082 [PS]: You know, he told me about himself, and I listened to him. He asked me questions about my interest in things like that. It was basically introduction, you know, something you would talk before the marriage, we talked after the marriage. 00:00:00.083 --> 00:51:57.083 [SD]: So when you were in America, what did you do? You described being an artist, what did you do? How did you keep yourself busy after looking after the kids? 00:00:00.084 --> 00:51:57.084 [PS]: You know, because I was very active in my college days, my extra-curricular activities, I was involved in a lot of activities, so I was feeling very, like, I have to do more than just raising the kids. So when they were about three years old and 4 years old, something like that and I started hearing some-- Actually we started the Club of Indian Women in ’78. Monica was six years old, and Sandeep was five. Because the people who were living in our neighborhood, the Indian women, we used to meet them, but our husbands were busy and there was always like, if they're not free, we cannot meet. So then we thought, that why not start an organization where we can meet on our own and we don't have to depend on our husbands to take us there or here, whatever. So we started that organization, Club of Indian Women in ’78. Now it is 42 years old, 42 years old almost. So we used to exchange our ideas, recipes, makeup, dress, costumes, fashion, whatever. I mean, we tried to learn from each other as well as we called some professionals, you know, to teach us some of the things, so the assimilation towards the mainstream was there. 00:00:00.085 --> 00:51:57.085 [SD]: How did that get started? So were you in similar neighborhoods? Which neighborhood? PS We were in Bolingbrook here and we were like three of us. We were having dinner in my friend's house, and we said, you know, we want some outlet, we were getting a little bored here, just the school, the kids go to school and we don't have anything else00:26:29.0 to do. So one of my friend’s husband, he suggested, “Why don’t you start a club? So that's how we, you know, what we did was that we had those phonebooks, the phone directories, we looked into each and every page to find the Indian names there. We called them, you know, then had a meeting and whoever could make it, they came, and we started the club00:27:03.00 from there on. 00:00:00.086 --> 00:51:57.086 [SD]: Wow, why was that important to you, to start that? You spoke a little about that. 00:00:00.087 --> 00:51:57.087 [PS]: We wanted to learn from each other. We came from different parts of India. I mean, I did not know all the cooking, we wanted to cook at home but we didn't know all the recipes, so we would ask in parties, “Tell me how you made this, tell me how you made this.” But we’ll forget it. So we started to do something. And there were no phones, like cell phones, or emails or computers or anything like that. So we said, “Why don't we meet?” And this is how we started getting together and meeting each other once a month and get to know and then we spread out. 00:00:00.088 --> 00:51:57.088 [SD]: Did it help you feel less homesick? 00:00:00.089 --> 00:51:57.089 [PS]: Yes, yes. 00:00:00.090 --> 00:51:57.090 [SD]: And what about maintaining the traditional attire and traditions of India, rituals that you practice? How did you keep those here? 00:00:00.091 --> 00:51:57.091 [PS]: You know when we got into the Club of Indian Women we started to exchange ideas about, you know, wearing different clothes and fashions, and what is the latest and things like that. So we tried from there onwards and we adapted the Western attire more. 00:00:00.092 --> 00:51:57.092 [SD]: And what about practicing religion in the United States? How did you, did you practice your religion, how did you do that? 00:00:00.093 --> 00:51:57.093 [PS]: We were doing it at home and then we found an organization, western suburban organization, I'm forgetting the full name of it now, but, so we used to get together and I made a little temple for that. I stitched the whole thing with the fabric and so we would make that as a Temple, and we’ll do the prayers over there. Then later on, the Hindu Temple of Greater Chicago started and we started to do the combined prayers there. 00:00:00.094 --> 00:51:57.094 [SD]: How did you personally keep practicing religion, keep practicing Hinduism in the United States? 00:00:00.095 --> 00:51:57.095 [PS]: In India the religion was not taught. Whatever we saw at home, my mom doing it, or my in-laws doing it, all those things we remembered and we started to do that. And that is how we kept it alive, the religion. And, we did it at home mostly. We had the deity or some statue there, and we started practicing there. We will also do some, like, Satyanarayan Katha, those kind of things. We’ll get together, call our friends, and do some prayers there, that way, or some Bhajans at times. This is how we started. 00:00:00.096 --> 00:51:57.096 [SD]: Did you try to involve your children in Hindu rituals? 00:00:00.097 --> 00:51:57.097 [PS]: Yes, we tried to teach them, at least they could see it, what we are doing. We didn’t force them to learn but whatever they saw, they learned it--And then we sent them to a camp also. Swami Vivekananda camp, when they were little, in Ganges town, Michigan. That also made a big difference. 00:00:00.098 --> 00:51:57.098 [SD]: What other organizations are there other organizations that you are affiliated with? 00:00:00.099 --> 00:51:57.099 [PS]: Quite a few actually. I got involved with the Hindu temple before it started, you know, they were planning at that time, then the Medical Association, the Indian American Medical Association. Also with the India Tribune. Chitrahar. And then, what else? Then we started this Indo-Crisis Line with the Club of Indian Women, and later on we started Apna Ghar. I also got involved with some, like Women-made Gallery. They had only women’s art displayed there. That was also very new when I started. Not I started but I became part of that, I was president of that. Then I also got involved with the Governor's Advisory Council on Asian Affairs and then also in the Illinois Arts--so many names, I forget the names also. What is it? Indian Art--not Indian, Illinois Arts, and so a couple of these organizations I was involved in. 00:00:00.100 --> 00:51:57.100 [SD]: That’s a lot. So can we talk about the Indo-Crisis Line and how that started? 00:00:00.101 --> 00:51:57.101 [PS]: The Club of Indian Women, as I said, we were exchanging recipes and fashion and things like that but then I thought about it. I think we have to get a little more serious, get more seriously involved into something. And by that time we had been hearing some, like news about scam marriages, immigration problems, racism and discriminations. And so there were some issues which were coming in focus. And so we thought we need to get a little more serious about these issues and see if we can help them. So I took a course in one of the domestic violence organization and we started the Indo-Crisis Line which was a 24-hour hotline. And we used to get a lot of calls in that also. 00:00:00.102 --> 00:51:57.102 [SD]: So, were you manning those calls, were taking those calls directly? 00:00:00.103 --> 00:51:57.103 [PS]: Yes, we did our own training program, volunteers training program and there were three volunteers we had, who were just taking the shifts and taking the calls. Of course, there were no cell phones, so we have to stay with the phones and all 24 hours but again, we also hired a --what do you call --answering service who would initially take the phone calls, receive the phone calls and then they will send it to us. And the instructions were given to them that unless it is a Asian calling, you don’t have to bother any of us, but if it’s an Asian who needs some help then call us, whoever is on call at that time. 00:00:00.104 --> 00:51:57.104 [SD]: And by Asian, what do you mean, what ethnicity? 00:00:00.105 --> 00:51:57.105 [PS]: Basically the Indians, the Indo-Pak community. 00:00:00.106 --> 00:51:57.106 [SD]: Do you remember, can you talk about a phone call, a specific case that you got? 00:00:00.107 --> 00:51:57.107 [PS]: Yes, one particularly, I know, that is, which probably I’ll not forget it and maybe that is reason we built Apna Ghar. I got a call at 4 o’clock in the morning and this girl, who was 18 years old, she was calling from a telephone booth. She has left her home and she was scared and very very afraid of, you know, because she left home and she said that “You know, I can’t go back. I left my home and I'm looking for a shelter somewhere.” And, because I think she was in love with someone that her parents didn’t approve, so she could not go back to home. So we thought that “Okay, let's find out whoever we can, find a place for you. Give me some time.” I handled that phone call and I said “Okay, give me some time, I'll get back to you, just stay there.” So I made a few phone calls in the area where she was, and I found that some shelter had any space. So I called her back, but she was not there. She left that place. It didn’t take me long but again, she was not there. That really made me feel very sorry about it. I could not help her. She needed it very badly and I don't know where she went and it was, it became such a frustrating experience for me. So we thought about, that we should have a place of her own where we can send these people. And that is how I got in touch with the Asian Human Services and Kantaji was there and so we started thinking of making Apna Ghar a shelter of our own. 00:00:00.108 --> 00:51:57.108 [SD]: So can you talk about Apna Ghar and what it was like to start that? 00:00:00.109 --> 00:51:57.109 [PS]: Yeah in 1980, actually the Indo-Crisis Line we started in 1983, and that was the first Crisis line in the country. So we used to get calls from California also even New York, some places, you know, even India. So, in 89, we talked about opening Apna Ghar. And Kantaji, Ranjana Bhargav, they were part of the Asian Human Services. So we talked to them and Kantaji was an expert in writing grants, and she has worked all her life in the social services, so she started writing grants for that. And in ’90, we got our first grant and it was a matching grant but we got it for like 120,000 dollars. And we started renting a place, the office, and we hired a person and then we actually had apartments where we keep our clients. So we had 2 apartments and right away we booked it, because there were clients waiting for that. So this is how actually it started Apna Ghar in 1990. 00:00:00.110 --> 00:51:57.110 [SD]: And what does the organization look like now? 00:00:00.111 --> 00:51:57.111 [PS]: Oh, it has grown a lot, it has tremendously grown. We couldn’t even have imagined at that time. We have become a shelter for immigrants now. It started as a South Asian women’s organization, but now it is serving the Immigrant community. And we have, what do you call that, satellites in five different places. Our staff speaks about 24 different languages and there are a lot of different programs also running, like the CVC program, the Child Visitation program, we have translation program, where we translate the programs, the documents, official documents, legal, paralegal advocacies. I think I don’t even know what they are doing right now. It has grown quite a bit, quite a bit. 00:00:00.112 --> 00:51:57.112 [SD]: So how do you feel about that? 00:00:00.113 --> 00:51:57.113 [PS]: I mean, in a way, it is good that they have grown but our initial dream about eradicating the domestic violence has not fulfilled actually, you know, the more clients are there now because people are talking about it, which is good in a way that they're being helped, they are being empowered and they have a place to stay. That way it is good. We are helping individuals, we are helping groups, we are helping their children also. 00:00:00.114 --> 00:51:57.114 [SD]: So there are a lot of themes in your past work about helping women. Why is that important to you? Why did you, why are you drawn to that mission? 00:00:00.115 --> 00:51:57.115 [PS]: You know, I always saw in my own home, my own family, my mom, she was not belonging to any organization as such but she was always helping people, women, and even men (break in recording, question is repeated) 00:00:00.116 --> 00:51:57.116 [SD]: so there are a lot of themes in your work about helping or empowering women or services aimed at women. So why did you do that, and why were you drawn to that mission? 00:00:00.117 --> 00:51:57.117 [PS]: You know, because I grew up in an atmosphere where my mother was very much involved, not to an organization she belonged to, but by herself as an individual, she was very caring and giving, and she would help strangers, and that's how I've seen. And when I realized that over here, there was a need where we could help. We started with, not particularly helping only the individual, I mean the women, but as an individual, the crisis line would help anyone. But after doing some statistical, you know, surveys and analysis of that, we found that the woman really needed more help here. So that is where we went towards helping the women and their causes. So, no particular, there was nothing, you know. I just I thought that the woman really always needed some help. 00:00:00.118 --> 00:51:57.118 [SD]: So did you feel responsible in helping women or helping that population? 00:00:00.119 --> 00:51:57.119 [PS]: Not responsible. I felt that if I can do it, why can’t, why don't I do it. Maybe it's my karma. 00:00:00.120 --> 00:51:57.120 [SD]: So how did your own values, how did you implement your own values, your own personal values into that work? You talked about Karma, can you talk a little bit about that? 00:00:00.121 --> 00:51:57.121 [PS]: You know, I always say one should always keep doing the karmas and leave everything to God. And you know, the karmas will keep coming back. I think if you have good karmas, the society will improve, your own family will improve, your community will improve, it is something we would like to see, the people are happier. 00:00:00.122 --> 00:51:57.122 [SD]: Did you feel like you helped build community in the Chicagoland area of Indian Americans? 00:00:00.123 --> 00:51:57.123 [PS]: You know, I consider myself fortunate in a way that when we were here, there were limited number of Indians and I got the chance to do that. Now there are so many more and so many more organizations and people are around here. But in those days, in the 70s and 80s, there were not that many people around here. And I had the opportunity and I used my talent in some ways or some, my, my willingness to help and that's about it. I saw the opportunity. 00:00:00.124 --> 00:51:57.124 [SD]: How did you use your talents in arts and in literature to create this? How did those skills transfer over? 00:00:00.125 --> 00:51:57.125 [PS]: Well, arts initially, I started to because I was part of the Illinois Arts Council, you know, I did some exhibitions and things like that for the Asian community and promoted the Asian art at that time. And then when I left, I think I don't know exactly what is happening now. But that is why I got interested with the museum also, the National Indo-American Heritage Museum. The name was different before, and that’s why I got interested, I wanted to promote art there. 00:00:00.126 --> 00:51:57.126 [SD]: And what do you like to do in your leisure time? 00:00:00.127 --> 00:51:57.127 [PS]: In my leisure time, talking about now, before-- I used to always keep myself busy, with doing art in some ways or getting socially active with doing some events and programs to raise funds and do some projects 00:00:00.128 --> 00:51:57.128 [SD]: You talked about assimilation and how the Club of Indian Women originally started so that all of you could, you know, begin the process of assimilating into this country. But in fact you really created space for the Indian community to thrive and become its own and be strong in its own identity in the United States. So do you still think it's important that goal of assimilation? Do you think it is still important to assimilate or do you think that Indian Americans should stay true to their identities when they come to America? 00:00:00.129 --> 00:51:57.129 [PS]: No, no, assimilation is important. It is important. You can still keep your culture to yourself, your religion to yourself, but I think assimilation is good. They say, in Rome do as Romans do and I think that creates harmony and cohesiveness, rather than struggling to be always saying “Me, me, me, I want to do my way, my way only. That doesn't work as much. It doesn't end in a happy note sometimes but with the Club of Indian Women now we started with the assimilation and we also did the network for the working woman, also. At that time we had another branch of Club of Indian Women. where we were training our newly working class of Indian women how to do the interviews, how to dress up for that and we also train them. But again now at this time after so many years, the focus has changed, we are all grown into the senior citizens and how to spend our time, what activities we can do, we are focusing on that now. 00:00:00.130 --> 00:51:57.130 [SD]: How do you spend your day today, what does your day look like? 00:00:00.131 --> 00:51:57.131 [PS]: Well, I have a unique setup here where my son and his family is living with us and I spend some time with them. I also spend, my daughter comes here also, brings her daughter and leaves her here for some time, and the dog also. Now we have two dogs and three children, grandkids, the families, so it is full that way. And I'm also doing my stock market. I spend my time there, managing my husband’s finances, and I also do some writing, my poetries and my other things. So it keeps me pretty busy. 00:00:00.132 --> 00:51:57.132 [SD]: Great. Is there anything else you want to talk about, either about your experience immigrating to America or your life here, any advice you would give, anything you’d like to talk about. 00:00:00.133 --> 00:51:57.133 [PS]: I think it was a very good opportunity for us to move here. We learned a lot, our lives are being enriched by so many different things. And we did lose some things, too, our family and things like that but we consider ourselves very fortunate in getting the opportunity to learn a lot. We’ve travelled a lot in the whole world, many, many countries, cities, so those are the things. My husband is very happy to learn the latest in his techniques. So we have been very very fortunate in that way. And I think unless you travel the world sometimes we don't realize what is world is all about, such different countries, different cultures, different values and it makes you a better person. It gives you a lot of wisdom. 00:00:00.134 --> 00:51:57.134 [SD]: Great, thank you so much. 00:00:00.135 --> 00:51:57.135 [JJ]: Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Prem Lata Sharma and to our interviewer, Shristi Dear. That concludes our interview for Niam’s Oral History Project.