WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:56:39.000 [JITESH JAGGI]: This is Jitesh Jaggi for the National Indo American Museum’s Oral History Project. Today at the residence of Mr. and Mrs. Anne. So, before we begin, can both of you please state and spell your name? 00:00:00.001 --> 00:56:39.001 [SATYAVATHI ANNE]: Satyavathi 00:00:00.002 --> 00:56:39.002 [JJ]: Satyavathi 00:00:00.003 --> 00:56:39.003 [SA]: You want spelling? 00:00:00.004 --> 00:56:39.004 [JJ]: Yes. 00:00:00.005 --> 00:56:39.005 [SA]: S a t y a v a t h i. 00:00:00.006 --> 00:56:39.006 [JJ]: And you sir? 00:00:00.007 --> 00:56:39.007 [MALLIKARJUNARAO ANNE]: M a l l i k a r j u n a r a o. Anne. 00:00:00.008 --> 00:56:39.008 [JJ]: Okay. And, these questions whoever feels that he can answer, the question is applied to both of you. You can pitch in. So, but this question I'm going to ask to both of you. When and where were you born? 00:00:00.009 --> 00:56:39.009 [MA]: 06/27/41, Thotlavalluru, AP India. 00:00:00.010 --> 00:56:39.010 [JJ]: What year was that? 00:00:00.011 --> 00:56:39.011 [MA]: 06/27/41. 00:00:00.012 --> 00:56:39.012 [JJ]: I’m sorry— 00:00:00.013 --> 00:56:39.013 [MA]: 1941. 00:00:00.014 --> 00:56:39.014 [JJ]: 1941. And you? 00:00:00.015 --> 00:56:39.015 [SA]: Me, I was born in 08/04/41, no ’42 sorry. 08/04/42. I was born in Kavutaram, Andhra Pradesh. 00:00:00.016 --> 00:56:39.016 [JJ]: And, what languages did you speak growing up? 00:00:00.017 --> 00:56:39.017 [MA]: Telegu, English. 00:00:00.018 --> 00:56:39.018 [JJ]: English, was the, was it part of the household? 00:00:00.019 --> 00:56:39.019 [MA]: College. 00:00:00.020 --> 00:56:39.020 [JJ]: Just college. And yourself? 00:00:00.021 --> 00:56:39.021 [SA]: For me, I speak Telugu, little bit of Tamil, and also English. 00:00:00.022 --> 00:56:39.022 [JJ]: And how did the Tamil come about? 00:00:00.023 --> 00:56:39.023 [SA]: We lived in Chennai for a long time, I grew up in Chennai. 00:00:00.024 --> 00:56:39.024 [JJ]: Oh, I see. And, how would you describe your experiences growing up in AP? 00:00:00.025 --> 00:56:39.025 [MA]: Typical childhood in a village atmosphere, playing with toys made of stick and stones **laughs** 00:00:00.026 --> 00:56:39.026 [JJ]: **laughs** Was it a modest living back in those days? 00:00:00.027 --> 00:56:39.027 [MA]: Yes. We are little bit in the village, we are little bit wealthy compared to 90% of the villagers. So, we are, we’re better off at that time. 00:00:00.028 --> 00:56:39.028 [JJ]: I see. And what about you, how was growing up? 00:00:00.029 --> 00:56:39.029 [SA]: My growing up is great. I had a good childhood. Was born also in a village. And my grandfather is a pretty wealthy man. And then, I think I went to Chennai when I was 9 years old. Then I went to school. And also my, what do you call that, first year of intermediate. And then I came to Andhra Pradesh for my medical school. 00:00:00.030 --> 00:56:39.030 [JJ]: I see. So, in both your villages, was schooling until, I think the 10— 00:00:00.031 --> 00:56:39.031 [MA]: High-school. 00:00:00.032 --> 00:56:39.032 [SA]: No, up to 12th. Up to 12th. 00:00:00.033 --> 00:56:39.033 [JJ]: Only 12th? 00:00:00.034 --> 00:56:39.034 [SA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.035 --> 00:56:39.035 [JJ]: And, after 12th, you have to move to nearest city? 00:00:00.036 --> 00:56:39.036 [SA]: I moved before even I came to 12th. So, I just left when I was 6th or 7th grade. 00:00:00.037 --> 00:56:39.037 [JJ]: I see. I see. And, did your family practice a certain religion? And how about you? 00:00:00.038 --> 00:56:39.038 [MA]: Farmer. My father was a farmer. My mother is a household and homemaker. 00:00:00.039 --> 00:56:39.039 [JJ]: And what religion did you practice? Or if at all— 00:00:00.040 --> 00:56:39.040 [MA]: Hindu. 00:00:00.041 --> 00:56:39.041 [JJ]: Hindu. And do you still, are you still practicing the religion? 00:00:00.042 --> 00:56:39.042 [MA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.043 --> 00:56:39.043 [JJ]: I see. And yourself? 00:00:00.044 --> 00:56:39.044 [SA]: Totally Hindu. **laughs** 00:00:00.045 --> 00:56:39.045 [JJ]: **laughs** And yeah, tell us about your parents. Your mother, you father. 00:00:00.046 --> 00:56:39.046 [MA]: Well, my father was five when his parents, both of them, passed away. Tuberculosis was very rampant at that time. He had two siblings, 3 and 1 year old. Something like that, when they passed away. So, relatives took care of them. 00:00:00.047 --> 00:56:39.047 [JJ]: Oh. I see. And then, he just became a farmer, was it the family profession? 00:00:00.048 --> 00:56:39.048 [MA]: Yeah. And actually, the lands left by grandfather, was taken care by the caretakers. And my father has to fight to get the land back when he was turned 18. (inaudible) 00:00:00.049 --> 00:56:39.049 [JJ]: What did they grow there? 00:00:00.050 --> 00:56:39.050 [MA]: Paddy, mostly paddy. 00:00:00.051 --> 00:56:39.051 [SA]: Rice. 00:00:00.052 --> 00:56:39.052 [MA]: The later years, sugar cane, turmeric, and other things. 00:00:00.053 --> 00:56:39.053 [JJ]: This is all pre-Independence? 00:00:00.054 --> 00:56:39.054 [MA]: Pre-independence. 00:00:00.055 --> 00:56:39.055 [JJ]: Right, right. And you said your mother was a housewife [inaudible]-- 00:00:00.056 --> 00:56:39.056 [MA]: Right. Right. Took care of four children. 00:00:00.057 --> 00:56:39.057 [JJ]: Were you close to any one of them in particular? 00:00:00.058 --> 00:56:39.058 [MA]: Sisters. Well I was the only son. King of the house. **laughs** 00:00:00.059 --> 00:56:39.059 [JJ]: **laughs** 00:00:00.060 --> 00:56:39.060 [SA]: **laughs** 00:00:00.061 --> 00:56:39.061 [MA]: So they used to be, they used to be jealous of me. My sisters. But we were close. 00:00:00.062 --> 00:56:39.062 [JJ]: Were they elder sisters? 00:00:00.063 --> 00:56:39.063 [MA]: One younger and one older still living. 00:00:00.064 --> 00:56:39.064 [JJ]: I see. What about your parents? 00:00:00.065 --> 00:56:39.065 [SA]: My parents, yes. My mom also, I think she lost her parents when she was very early age. And then she was raised by her aunt and grandmother-- 00:00:00.066 --> 00:56:39.066 [MA]: Same [inaudible], tuberculosis. 00:00:00.067 --> 00:56:39.067 [SA]: Yeah, they both died. Both parents died of TB. 00:00:00.068 --> 00:56:39.068 [JJ]: Your mom’s— 00:00:00.069 --> 00:56:39.069 [SA]: My mom’s parents, yes. And then my mom was raised by her aunt, grandmother. And then she was married to my father because they are in the same village. So they married when, she was married when she was 16. 00:00:00.070 --> 00:56:39.070 [JJ]: And, your father, how about your father? 00:00:00.071 --> 00:56:39.071 [SA]: My father, I think those days, his education is not really that much, is only 8th standard or something. But, it’s very interesting, I think, he moved to Chennai and then, he used to speak pretty good English for those days. I don’t even know how he learned English, I don’t know myself, yes. And then his main occupation is stock market. 00:00:00.072 --> 00:56:39.072 [JJ]: Oh, the early days of— 00:00:00.073 --> 00:56:39.073 [SA]: Yeah, the early days of stock market. So, he used to get up and then do the trades and (inaudible) Mumbai, everyday in the morning at 4 o’ clock and something like that. Yes. That’s how he made his living. 00:00:00.074 --> 00:56:39.074 [JJ]: I see, that’s very interesting, and the siblings? 00:00:00.075 --> 00:56:39.075 [SA]: My father? 00:00:00.076 --> 00:56:39.076 [JJ]: Your siblings? 00:00:00.077 --> 00:56:39.077 [SA]: Oh, my siblings. We are six of us. My older brother passed away. And five of us are still remaining and all five lives in this country. 00:00:00.078 --> 00:56:39.078 [JJ]: I see. Were your villages close by? 00:00:00.079 --> 00:56:39.079 [MA]: About 20 miles. 00:00:00.080 --> 00:56:39.080 [JJ]: Not bad **laughs** 00:00:00.081 --> 00:56:39.081 [SA]: **laughs** 00:00:00.082 --> 00:56:39.082 [JJ]: And did your families know each other? 00:00:00.083 --> 00:56:39.083 [MA]: No. 00:00:00.084 --> 00:56:39.084 [SA]: No. 00:00:00.085 --> 00:56:39.085 [JJ]: I see. So do you mind me asking how the connection happened? 00:00:00.086 --> 00:56:39.086 [SA]: Oh, from the medical school. 00:00:00.087 --> 00:56:39.087 [JJ]: Oh, I see. Yeah, we’ll get to that **laughs** 00:00:00.088 --> 00:56:39.088 [SA]: **laughs** 00:00:00.089 --> 00:56:39.089 [JJ]: Okay, so yeah. And this question again, from here on, whoever wants to ask the question, answer the question, or both of you, you can go one after the other. So when did you come to the United States and what brought you here? 00:00:00.090 --> 00:56:39.090 [MA]: 1967 January, 8th I think. 00:00:00.091 --> 00:56:39.091 [JJ]: And what brought you here? 00:00:00.092 --> 00:56:39.092 [MA]: It’s all accident in lifes. 00:00:00.093 --> 00:56:39.093 [SA]: **laughs** 00:00:00.094 --> 00:56:39.094 [MA]: Including birth, marriage, education, everything is accident, I believe that **laughs** 00:00:00.095 --> 00:56:39.095 [JJ]: Right. 00:00:00.096 --> 00:56:39.096 [MA]: I was doing my, finishing my medicine. And I was doing my housemanship, internship. Friend of mine, he was taking the ECFMG exam in Madras. So he asked me to accompany him. So, he filled up my application, and then he told me to write the exam with him. So I wrote exam, I passed. And the moment I passed. I ran away, India. 00:00:00.097 --> 00:56:39.097 [JJ]: Oh wow, did you find a job, or did they, someone— 00:00:00.098 --> 00:56:39.098 [MA]: No, I found the internship here, myself, when I came. 00:00:00.099 --> 00:56:39.099 [JJ]: And where did you come first in America? 00:00:00.100 --> 00:56:39.100 [MA]: New York. 00:00:00.101 --> 00:56:39.101 [JJ]: I see. And were you married at that point? 00:00:00.102 --> 00:56:39.102 [MA]: Yeah. (inaudible) married (inaudible) six months. 00:00:00.103 --> 00:56:39.103 [JJ]: I see. And is that how you came here too? 00:00:00.104 --> 00:56:39.104 [SA]: Yes. I had no clue, I was, we are planning to come to this country at all. It all happened because he came first. And then I followed him. 00:00:00.105 --> 00:56:39.105 [JJ]: I see. So, I guess, I should ask, tell me about that medical school story. How did you guys meet? 00:00:00.106 --> 00:56:39.106 [SA]: Medical school, it was. He was in, he studied with us in the same medical school for two years and then he transferred himself to Vizag. And then his sister used to be 2 years junior to me in medical school. Oh that’s how, you know, we got together because. Yes. 00:00:00.107 --> 00:56:39.107 [JJ]: I see, I see. (inaudible) arranged marriage. 00:00:00.108 --> 00:56:39.108 [SA]: Right, yes, yes. 00:00:00.109 --> 00:56:39.109 [MA]: She, actually, my sister arranged. 00:00:00.110 --> 00:56:39.110 [SA]: She told his parents, you know, (inaudible). You know how it goes, there is a girl. So, his parents, his mom came and saw me. I didn’t have a clue at that time. But that’s how we. 00:00:00.111 --> 00:56:39.111 [JJ]: I see. So you guys hadn’t met, before that. 00:00:00.112 --> 00:56:39.112 [MA]: Never met before. 00:00:00.113 --> 00:56:39.113 [JJ]: Oh wow. Alright, and how about you? So when you did come here, did you start working, did you. 00:00:00.114 --> 00:56:39.114 [SA]: No, I didn’t start, I have year and a half daughter already, by that time. 00:00:00.115 --> 00:56:39.115 [JJ]: Oh, you had a daughter already? 00:00:00.116 --> 00:56:39.116 [SA]: Yes. Yeah, so I stayed back because I just finished my medical school, and then within the first year I had my daughter. So I had to put off my internship. So I did one (inaudible) of internship, and then came here. So by the time she-- 00:00:00.117 --> 00:56:39.117 [MA]: She did her internship in Madras. 00:00:00.118 --> 00:56:39.118 [SA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.119 --> 00:56:39.119 [MA]: And then, came here when my daughter is 18 months. My daughter was born within weeks, within a month after I came here. 00:00:00.120 --> 00:56:39.120 [JJ]: Oh. So you missed the— 00:00:00.121 --> 00:56:39.121 [MA]: Yeah. (inaudible) And, Yeah, she came in June of ’68. 00:00:00.122 --> 00:56:39.122 [JJ]: Oh so then, next year. You came— 00:00:00.123 --> 00:56:39.123 [SA]: Came after— 00:00:00.124 --> 00:56:39.124 [MA]: After finishing internship. 00:00:00.125 --> 00:56:39.125 [JJ]: I see. 00:00:00.126 --> 00:56:39.126 [SA]: Yeah, he came in December of ’67, I came in ’68— 00:00:00.127 --> 00:56:39.127 [MA]: No, January. 00:00:00.128 --> 00:56:39.128 [SA]: Yeah, January. 00:00:00.129 --> 00:56:39.129 [MA]: January of ’67. 00:00:00.130 --> 00:56:39.130 [JJ]: I see. You even remembered the date, actually. 8th January. 00:00:00.131 --> 00:56:39.131 [MA]: 8th January, I vaguely remember. 8th or 9th. 00:00:00.132 --> 00:56:39.132 [JJ]: Yeah, so, do you remember also some of the challenges maybe you faced when you came to the country first? 00:00:00.133 --> 00:56:39.133 [MA]: The moment I landed, I landed with $8 in my pocket. And then I called the cab. Cab said it’ll cost $30, those days 20, 30 dollars from Kennedy Airport to Brooklyn. So I don’t have it, I told him, This is what I have. Then he said he will wait. So we waited for some other passengers. And he dropped me $8. 00:00:00.134 --> 00:56:39.134 [JJ]: So you reached the hospital— 00:00:00.135 --> 00:56:39.135 [MA]: Hospital 00:00:00.136 --> 00:56:39.136 [SA]: With no money **laughs** 00:00:00.137 --> 00:56:39.137 [MA]: Penniless **laughs** I was courageous. I didn’t even think about it. 00:00:00.138 --> 00:56:39.138 [JJ]: How old were you at that time? 00:00:00.139 --> 00:56:39.139 [MA]: 25 00:00:00.140 --> 00:56:39.140 [SA]: Yeah, 25. 00:00:00.141 --> 00:56:39.141 [MA]: And the hospital, immediately I went to reception and they know that I am coming, so they gave me room and settle down, food, everything. 00:00:00.142 --> 00:56:39.142 [SA]: But with no money for the whole month. 00:00:00.143 --> 00:56:39.143 [MA]: No money for a month. **laughs** 00:00:00.144 --> 00:56:39.144 [JJ]: So, that was at the beginning of the challenges. 00:00:00.145 --> 00:56:39.145 [SA]: Yes. 00:00:00.146 --> 00:56:39.146 [JJ]: Any other challenges over the next few months for you guys? 00:00:00.147 --> 00:56:39.147 [MA]: Next few months. It’s the internship, very hard internship. Surgical. 00:00:00.148 --> 00:56:39.148 [JJ]: So you trained to be a surgeon— 00:00:00.149 --> 00:56:39.149 [MA]: Surgeon. And then I tried to be, get a residency in Urology. They didn’t give it. 00:00:00.150 --> 00:56:39.150 [SA]: Because they want him to wait for a year to get into the program. And he didn’t have patience, so he didn’t want to wait. So he thought he will do **laughs** pathology at that time. 00:00:00.151 --> 00:56:39.151 [MA]: So I got the job and Gary Indiana for 6 months in pathology, I mean the residency. So after I came here, I settled down to quiet life. I didn’t want to change pathology. So I became pathologist. Four years I was there and then I moved to Chicago in ’71. 00:00:00.152 --> 00:56:39.152 [JJ]: You must be anxious at that point? Just waiting by yourself. 00:00:00.153 --> 00:56:39.153 [SA]: I was doing my internship there. So, I was busy myself because I used to live (inaudible) which is about maybe 12 miles, 13 miles from the hospital. So it takes me, I have to take a bus and from bus I get there. So coming commuting and coming back, and you know. Though I was staying with my mom, so, they were, you know, my daughter was born already, so they were taking care of her. 00:00:00.154 --> 00:56:39.154 [JJ]: … And how was your experience like when you came here finally? 00:00:00.155 --> 00:56:39.155 [SA]: When I came here finally, I think I came here without any idea what I’m going to face here. So but, lucky he was here before me. So, at least we have some money at that time, because, not a lot, but still there is something. And then, we settled in Gary there for a while. And, right away, I had my twin boys within a year. So that was the tough adjustment for me with 3 kids and then I had to still pass my boards and ECFMG exam. So, I brought, you know, 10 months I had the boys with me, and then I send my boys with my mom, to India. Then, I had to study for my ECFMG exam. And then after passing. Yeah, and then I did my internship. And then after internship-- 00:00:00.156 --> 00:56:39.156 [JJ]: Where was that? 00:00:00.157 --> 00:56:39.157 [SA]: Internship, East Chicago, Indiana. It’s about maybe, how many miles is it from— 00:00:00.158 --> 00:56:39.158 [MA]: From here, about half an hour. 00:00:00.159 --> 00:56:39.159 [SA]: And then, after internship, we moved to Chicago. And then, he started already his practice. And then I started my residency. My residency, I started in 1972 in St. Francis Hospital Evanston. 00:00:00.160 --> 00:56:39.160 [JJ]: And your practice was in what? 00:00:00.161 --> 00:56:39.161 [MA]: St. Anne’s Hospital in Chicago. 00:00:00.162 --> 00:56:39.162 [SA]: In pathology. 00:00:00.163 --> 00:56:39.163 [MA]: Pathology. 00:00:00.164 --> 00:56:39.164 [JJ]: Pathology 00:00:00.165 --> 00:56:39.165 [MA]: In ’72. 00:00:00.166 --> 00:56:39.166 [JJ]: And, did the shift to surgery happen— 00:00:00.167 --> 00:56:39.167 [MA]: No, no, no surgery from then. Pathology. 00:00:00.168 --> 00:56:39.168 [JJ]: Oh, I see. 00:00:00.169 --> 00:56:39.169 [SA]: He was very happy with pathology, so. 00:00:00.170 --> 00:56:39.170 [MA]: Happy with that. 00:00:00.171 --> 00:56:39.171 [JJ]: So, you stumbled upon it and— 00:00:00.172 --> 00:56:39.172 [MA]: Stumbled upon it, that’s why I said everything is accident. **laughs** 00:00:00.173 --> 00:56:39.173 [JJ]: Oh, that makes sense. Now I see. So, yeah, tell me about your career, your work, was there ups and downs. 00:00:00.174 --> 00:56:39.174 [MA]: Well, I was a worker with—actually, I met a friend who is a pathologist, common friends (inaudible) in the Christmas ’71. His wife is Chinese. She knew that I was finishing pathology. And she told her husband, “Look at this boy. He might be a good, good colleague for you.” They were looking for a pathologist at that time. So he took me to his boss who is hospital having some problems for himself. He interviewed me in the hospital and he hired me. So I was hoping he will come there next Monday. But he passed away the same day, after interview. So but still they hired me. And I worked with him for 40 plus years. 00:00:00.175 --> 00:56:39.175 [JJ]: With him? 00:00:00.176 --> 00:56:39.176 [MA]: With the same, the person I met at friend's place. Pathologist. He recommended me to his boss. So he became the boss after that. 00:00:00.177 --> 00:56:39.177 [JJ]: I see, I see. And where was that? That was in Chicago right? 00:00:00.178 --> 00:56:39.178 [MA]: Chicago. 00:00:00.179 --> 00:56:39.179 [JJ]: Which hospital did you say? 00:00:00.180 --> 00:56:39.180 [MA]: St. Anne’s. And then we moved to St. Elizabeth and St. Mary. 00:00:00.181 --> 00:56:39.181 [JJ]: And where are they? They’re also in Chicago? 00:00:00.182 --> 00:56:39.182 [MA]: They’re close by. Downtown and 10 minutes from here. So St. Elizabeth and she was already at St. Mary from ’74. 00:00:00.183 --> 00:56:39.183 [SA]: ’75. 00:00:00.184 --> 00:56:39.184 [MA]: ’75. She finished her residency in Evanston. And came to St. Mary in ’74. So I joined her in 2002. Before that, I was working at St. Anne’s and St. Elizabeth. 00:00:00.185 --> 00:56:39.185 [JJ]: Oh I see. And what was your specialization in? 00:00:00.186 --> 00:56:39.186 [SA]: My specialization, Radiology. 00:00:00.187 --> 00:56:39.187 [JJ]: I see. And, did you always want to do that or did you also start— 00:00:00.188 --> 00:56:39.188 [SA]: No, I wanted to do, I mean, I think in India everybody wants to do Ob/Gyn. No, but after I came here, then you know, then I realized it, I think with 3 kids maybe, it’s a little too much for me to do it. I mean, I may not be doing a good job. So I took Radiology, because I thought it was an easy field at that time. But didn’t turn out to be that easy later one **laughs** 00:00:00.189 --> 00:56:39.189 [JJ]: Yeah so, experiences with kids especially, like sending them back and having them back, like how was, how did you manage to— 00:00:00.190 --> 00:56:39.190 [MA]: It was tough. Very tough. And when they’re 2, when they’re 1 year old, I think we sent them 00:00:00.191 --> 00:56:39.191 [SA]: Not even 1 years old 00:00:00.192 --> 00:56:39.192 [MA]: --with the mother-in-law. 00:00:00.193 --> 00:56:39.193 [JJ]: That must be tough too. 00:00:00.194 --> 00:56:39.194 [MA]: Tough. She took them, two kids in the Air India, it’s not easy. She raised them for two years and they came when they were 5 years. 00:00:00.195 --> 00:56:39.195 [SA]: No, they came when they were 3 years old. 00:00:00.196 --> 00:56:39.196 [MA]: 3 years old. And then nursery schools-- 00:00:00.197 --> 00:56:39.197 [JJ]: 3 years and, oh they were-- 00:00:00.198 --> 00:56:39.198 [SA]: 2 years. My daughter was here with me all the time. But my daughter is about year and half older than them. So when the boys came, she’s getting close to 5 years, so she is 4 and half years old, and they’re 3 years old. 00:00:00.199 --> 00:56:39.199 [JJ]: So, you have 1 daughter and 2 twins. 00:00:00.200 --> 00:56:39.200 [MA]: Right 00:00:00.201 --> 00:56:39.201 [SA]: Yes. 00:00:00.202 --> 00:56:39.202 [JJ]: Twin boys. 00:00:00.203 --> 00:56:39.203 [SA]: Twin boys. And then, you know how hard it is, I am still resident in training. And then he’s just started his practice. And we used to live in Skokie, at that time. It’s in the middle of Jewish community, really. There is not many, but I have to say that I had a good experience with them, living with them. They’re very, very nice, very friendly people. I think, in a way, I think my neighbors also, when I left the kids in the pre-school, and then pre-school, we used to drop them at 6 o’ clock, and then used to, he used to come home at 3:30 or 4 and pick them up, and bring them home. Then I probably didn't get home until 5:30, 6 o’ clock. So, it was kind of tough, but the days we are late, my neighbor is nice lady. So, the kids used to open the door and leave the door open and then she used to watch them. And then play with her kids. Because she has two girls. So, they always used to play with them, so, it was kind of really nice of them. To watch for her. Watch for my children too. 00:00:00.204 --> 00:56:39.204 [JJ]: And how were you treated as far as opportunity, advancement, recognition, in your work goals? Do you think you were treated equally? Did you think you had fair amount of success? 00:00:00.205 --> 00:56:39.205 [MA]: Mixed. Fair amount of success. Because my boss was good to me, all the time. He let me do anything I want. But dealing with some of the racial profiling was there. Some Irish Urologist used to tell me, Why don’t you go back to India to practice? They need you more than we need you. Like that. **laughs** But I never fought back or anything. I just kept quiet. So, those kinds of, at any time, this society. But in general, we were treated good. 00:00:00.206 --> 00:56:39.206 [JJ]: I see. And how about you? 00:00:00.207 --> 00:56:39.207 [SA]: Me? I worked with 3 chiefs in 35 years. I think the first one is really made an impact on me, because he’s a white American, WASP, I would say. But, he has treated me very well. And then supported me throughout my practice. And then always, if somebody has any complaints, or anything, he never used to say that it is my fault. Because, you know, sometime usually they turn to, they don’t want to hear about the other side of the story. He says, “Okay, I’ll discuss with my staff and then we’ll come back to you.” So he’s always put us, our interest first, before going to criticize us. So, I really had a good rapport with him, and then he left after 13 years, he retired. After I worked 13 years with him and then another American came. And, he was also nice, but his approach is totally different. The minute somebody complains about you, right away he blames you. So, totally opposite personalities, but, and overall, I would say, they have treated us well. The hospital and the staff (inaudible) 00:00:00.208 --> 00:56:39.208 [JJ]: In general, just being Indians here in America, did some experiences stand out for you? Did you feel that you were different? Were you made to feel different? Within work, outside work. 00:00:00.209 --> 00:56:39.209 [SA]: I think we did have a problem with maybe, more so, maybe now compared to, you know, almost we lived here more than 50 some years, now. In the beginning, I used to feel that we were treated differently. You know, people at work are okay. But when it comes to socialization, I trying to, something happening in their homes, there is always a definite difference (inaudible) Because they want to work with you, but they don't want to be part of their society. So, I think that kind of thing is there. But, I feel maybe part of it is in us too, because we didn’t feel that close enough for them, because we came from a different culture. We don’t know their culture so well. And they’re not that open people either, to tell us because, we are different. But, I think, living in this country for a long time, now I realize it. Because, I’m living in this community for last, I think we moved here 2008. And most of them are all different ethnic groups. White Americans, everybody. 00:00:00.210 --> 00:56:39.210 [JJ]: Here meaning, like, this— 00:00:00.211 --> 00:56:39.211 [SA]: This particular— 00:00:00.212 --> 00:56:39.212 [MA]: In this building. 00:00:00.213 --> 00:56:39.213 [SA]: The building. The community, that I should say. The community that we are living now. Now, I feel much more comfortable with them. We are very open, lot of things. And lot of ladies, you know, I socialize with them. And then I, we attend the book clubs ad then they discuss, you know. Like any other woman discusses their personal things. We do discuss now. So, I feel maybe, at the time I didn't know, rather than blaming somebody else. I feel it's maybe because, I'm coming from different culture, I didn’t know what to expect from them. Maybe we are not open that much. I'm living in this country now, knowing their culture now, I think we adapted a lot. So maybe it’s making our life is much easier now. 00:00:00.214 --> 00:56:39.214 [JJ]: Would you say, was it easy or difficult for you to make friends, acquaintances, connect with people here? 00:00:00.215 --> 00:56:39.215 [MA]: With the Indian community? 00:00:00.216 --> 00:56:39.216 [JJ]: Just in general. Because you came here, was it not knowing many people? 00:00:00.217 --> 00:56:39.217 [MA]: Right. We hardly have—if we see an Indian, we used to go and hug them. **laughs** something like that. We didn't have any Indian shops. Or anything. 00:00:00.218 --> 00:56:39.218 [SA]: Those days. 00:00:00.219 --> 00:56:39.219 [MA]: Yeah. Those days. In ‘60s. And, slowly in ‘70s and ‘80s full immigration came and lot of people came. And we started the Hindu temple, I’m one of the founders of the Hindu temple. 00:00:00.220 --> 00:56:39.220 [JJ]: The Lemont? 00:00:00.221 --> 00:56:39.221 [MA]: Lemont. (inaudible) trustee for over (inaudible) years. And Dr. (inaudible) was 00:00:00.222 --> 00:56:39.222 [SA]: Yeah, they all started at the same time. 00:00:00.223 --> 00:56:39.223 [MA]: We all worked together (inaudible) temple. 00:00:00.224 --> 00:56:39.224 [JJ]: Yes, tell me about the first few days, like how did the idea came about? How did you come together to form that? What was the need that you were addressing there? 00:00:00.225 --> 00:56:39.225 [MA]: Temple. We had a Swami Chinamayananda came in ’76, ’78. And he said, “We should have a temple here.” And he inspired a couple of our devotees. I was there, we were also devotees of Chinamayananda. Then, we formed and started a meeting and we decided to have a temple, and very good devotees looked for land. At the same time, in a meeting with some other devotees, some other people, they said they want to have Balaji temple and not Rama. And arguments started right there. So, he went and immediately started in Balaji Temple same time the Rama temple started. Exactly same time. And inauguration also, within one year, we inaugurated both temples. 00:00:00.226 --> 00:56:39.226 [JJ]: I see. And this one, the one that you started, that is a Rama temple? 00:00:00.227 --> 00:56:39.227 [MA]: Rama temple. (inaudible) 00:00:00.228 --> 00:56:39.228 [SA]: Yes. Dr. Nimmagadda will give you more detail, about it, he’s also actively involved. And he’s still more actively involved there, but, he’s not involved anymore. We just only go once in a while to the temple to pray and come back. 00:00:00.229 --> 00:56:39.229 [JJ]: What is the difference for followers of Balaji, like is that from a different region in India? 00:00:00.230 --> 00:56:39.230 [SA]: I think, yes, regional because Balaji is like Lord Venkateswara from Tirupati. So that’s why I think from there and Andhra Pradesh, most of the people are—Rama is, you know Rama is 00:00:00.231 --> 00:56:39.231 [MA]: North India 00:00:00.232 --> 00:56:39.232 [SA]: even South India, but I think it’s more North Indian. I think if you look at the temples, and both temples, you see the same, our devotees. You go to Rama temple, most of the devotees are from North India. You go to Balaji temple, then most of the devotees are 00:00:00.233 --> 00:56:39.233 [MA]: South 00:00:00.234 --> 00:56:39.234 [SA]: From Andhra or from Tamil Nadu. 00:00:00.235 --> 00:56:39.235 [JJ]: I see. I see. And, over these years, did you miss India? How did you stay in touch with family back there? 00:00:00.236 --> 00:56:39.236 [MA]: Yeah, almost every other year we went there. Last 50 years, we made at least 30— 00:00:00.237 --> 00:56:39.237 [SA]: No, no we— 00:00:00.238 --> 00:56:39.238 [MA]: 20, 30 00:00:00.239 --> 00:56:39.239 [SA]: We didn’t make the trips 00:00:00.240 --> 00:56:39.240 [MA]: 32 00:00:00.241 --> 00:56:39.241 [SA]: The first one we came, we didn’t go to India for 7 years. 00:00:00.242 --> 00:56:39.242 [MA]: For 8, 9 years almost. Yeah, 7 years— 00:00:00.243 --> 00:56:39.243 [SA]: Because, one thing, there is no money. And then, you know, the kids and our resident training and all that took us more time for us to even to travel. So once we started, then I think the first time I went, after 7 years. Then later on, we went maybe once in 2, 3 years. 00:00:00.244 --> 00:56:39.244 [MA]: So, we kept good contact with—my father passed away, ’82, ’83 suddenly. And so from then onwards I had to go and visit my mom every other year almost. And now, last 10 years, her mom was sick and we were going every year. After retirement, we’re going 2, 3 months. Spending. So last year, around this time, her mom passed away. 00:00:00.245 --> 00:56:39.245 [JJ]: Oh, sorry to hear that. And did anybody from India come visit? 00:00:00.246 --> 00:56:39.246 [MA]: Lot. 00:00:00.247 --> 00:56:39.247 [SA]: Well yeah, have a big family, extended family. So we have always people coming and going. And then I have a big family here also. So there is always people coming back and forth, you know, going back and forth. Trips, and visits, and then going to India. Functions, weddings, you know, the important things we go. 00:00:00.248 --> 00:56:39.248 [JJ]: So, I guess, generally I would ask, how did you maintain a connection with India, and a lot of people say, like you know being connected with the, invested in the Indian community here. But I see, that that must be easy for you because started the temple, one of the founders of the temple, so is that how you maintain connection with the Indian American community here? 00:00:00.249 --> 00:56:39.249 [SA]: Yes. I think that that is one thing, with because you see 00:00:00.250 --> 00:56:39.250 [MA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.251 --> 00:56:39.251 [SA]: --and also, Chinmaya Mission is another thing for us. We have been connected with Chinmaya Mission from the very beginning. So there are lot of people, we are very closely involved. And then, you know, those are the friends that probably most of them are our similar age groups now. So, we still maintain a good relationship with them. 00:00:00.252 --> 00:56:39.252 [JJ]: I see. And then, what prompted you to become a U. S. citizen? 00:00:00.253 --> 00:56:39.253 [MA]: A citizen? 00:00:00.254 --> 00:56:39.254 [JJ]: Did you have to think about it, was it, by that time, an obvious decision to make? 00:00:00.255 --> 00:56:39.255 [SA]: Really, I don't think we thought, but I think I have a goal when I took citizenship because, I have my siblings. That I need to bring them here. There is the only way for me to do it is, to become a citizen. So that’s how I became citizen, I think that’s my goal. 00:00:00.256 --> 00:56:39.256 [JJ]: And then what is that one thing that, or not one thing actually, what are the things that you miss about India? Or growing up in India? Are there some things when you feel homesick, you think about most? 00:00:00.257 --> 00:56:39.257 [SA]: You do, because, it’s very nice here, I can't complain about my life in this country. But I think, this country is good, as long as you’re healthy. Even if you have, you know, your extended family’s side or siblings, but everybody is working or something, but nobody can come and spend time or give that care that we expect them to be. But, I think in India, you have somehow, you feel the families are more closely connected. And they’re there when you need them. Not only your family, but even the friends, neighbors, everybody, if you are there, all will come to you. 00:00:00.258 --> 00:56:39.258 [JJ]: I see. Especially in a village environment. 00:00:00.259 --> 00:56:39.259 [SA]: Village environment and also, even if you live in, you know, homes close by. You get to know them for a long time and they all come and, you know, give words of support, something, whatever they can. But this is the thing I miss, is not the people are, not in the way, what I’m saying is, it’s not people are bad people, but they cannot do it because of the circumstances we are in. Because everybody is busy working. 00:00:00.260 --> 00:56:39.260 [JJ]: It’s more community oriented in India, I hear from you. 00:00:00.261 --> 00:56:39.261 [SA]: Right. 00:00:00.262 --> 00:56:39.262 [JJ]: Is there anything else that you miss about India when you feel homesick. Some particular things, maybe festivals, or food, or something like that. 00:00:00.263 --> 00:56:39.263 [SA]: Oh yes, festivals definitely, I think, all my festivals I’ve gone when I was in India. We used to have all, you know. Dasara, Sankranti, and Krishnashtami, all these things were kind of celebrated. And then, after we came here, I think it’s, I don’t blame anybody, I think it’s, though I myself, I like to be part of all these things, but, the life was so difficult at the time, when we came. We’re only interested working. Trying to keep that we’re good at work. And then trying to raise the family. And then try to be with friends also, because it took a lot of toll on us. Which I didn’t think those days, ‘cause I’m happy doing it. But now looking back, I’m surprised myself how we did all that, at that time. Working all the time with 3 children and then, you know, trying to have friends over, weekends and parties, and, you know. 00:00:00.264 --> 00:56:39.264 [JJ]: Yeah, that is. We did talk about work. And we did talk about early stages of you raising children and how that was difficult. Did those problems, did the problems reduce? Or, maybe, did they exacerbate as they were growing up? Like, kids when they were, you know, high school, or when they went to college, like how did the transition into parenting (inaudible) 00:00:00.265 --> 00:56:39.265 [SA]: Yes. I think when the kids, when they were small, the problems were small. 00:00:00.266 --> 00:56:39.266 [JJ]: Right. 00:00:00.267 --> 00:56:39.267 [SA]: When they become teenagers, there totally different issues, because they know everything. 00:00:00.268 --> 00:56:39.268 [JJ]: **laughs** 00:00:00.269 --> 00:56:39.269 [SA]: Right? **laughs** 00:00:00.270 --> 00:56:39.270 [JJ]: Yes. 00:00:00.271 --> 00:56:39.271 [SA]: And that stage is the most difficult stage to balance the [inaudible]-- 00:00:00.272 --> 00:56:39.272 [MA]: There’s a cultural clash. The kids are grown up as Indian kids. We think Indian kids, they think they are American kids, because they are American, born. So, they never are able to adjust with our Indian culture. We are trying to bring them up, so that conflict was there even today when they grown up. 00:00:00.273 --> 00:56:39.273 [JJ]: What are the specific struggles would you think, like language, I can think of one. 00:00:00.274 --> 00:56:39.274 [MA]: Language, yeah. I taught them Telugu and they’re happy that they learned now. They resisted lot in the beginning. And, what other struggles they have 00:00:00.275 --> 00:56:39.275 [SA]: No, but, they were happy now after they become older because the only way they can communicate with their grandparents. Because, the grandparents didn’t speak English. So whatever little Telugu he taught them at that age, that’s how they used to communicate with them. So at least there is some communication with the grandparents for them. 00:00:00.276 --> 00:56:39.276 [JJ]: And, where are your kids now? 00:00:00.277 --> 00:56:39.277 [SA]: Okay, my son lives in San Francisco and my daughter lives in Amsterdam. 00:00:00.278 --> 00:56:39.278 [JJ]: I see. Are they also in medical? Or? 00:00:00.279 --> 00:56:39.279 [SA]: No. My daughter is an attorney, and my son is in the computers. 00:00:00.280 --> 00:56:39.280 [JJ]: You don’t have to answer this, but you said there were two twins 00:00:00.281 --> 00:56:39.281 [SA]: Yeah. I have. One passed away when he was 18. 00:00:00.282 --> 00:56:39.282 [JJ]: Okay, would any of you mind just talking about him? Just that experience-- 00:00:00.283 --> 00:56:39.283 [SA]: No, I think that experience was the probably, you know for anybody, is the most difficult experience. I think that is probably, he has a difficult (inaudible) You know, because you don’t realize, “Oh kids are kids,” you think. But, I think for them, to be with the society, Indian culture, and then these twins. 00:00:00.284 --> 00:56:39.284 [JJ]: Where they struggling in college and school, because of their identity you think? 00:00:00.285 --> 00:56:39.285 [SA]: No, I don’t think so, because 00:00:00.286 --> 00:56:39.286 [MA]: I think so. 00:00:00.287 --> 00:56:39.287 [SA]: he was the very one of the joyful kid. No, but I think he probably, either he has created the stress by himself, because we never gave him the chance to be stressed because we were very lenient with their schools. We said, “Do whatever you want,” we’re not. We didn’t force them that they have to go to, like Harvard or Stanford or anything, you know, so. Not one of those, but, for him, I feel, that is, he himself created the stress in him. 00:00:00.288 --> 00:56:39.288 [JJ]: You seem to have a different opinion, or do you share the same opinion. 00:00:00.289 --> 00:56:39.289 [MA]: I think (inaudible) like any other illness. Mental depression is a illness and he succumbed with it. 00:00:00.290 --> 00:56:39.290 [SA]: But, we didn’t realize that he had 00:00:00.291 --> 00:56:39.291 [JJ]: There were no indications or 00:00:00.292 --> 00:56:39.292 [MA]: No, there was some indications in the beginning, but 00:00:00.293 --> 00:56:39.293 [JJ]: But that’s looking back— 00:00:00.294 --> 00:56:39.294 [SA]: Yeah, this is all looking back. 00:00:00.295 --> 00:56:39.295 [MA]: But, he never gave us a— 00:00:00.296 --> 00:56:39.296 [SA]: He never said that he was unhappy or something. 00:00:00.297 --> 00:56:39.297 [JJ]: Yeah, I’m very sorry to hear that, I can only imagine. Do either of you recall what is that day like. 00:00:00.298 --> 00:56:39.298 [MA]: Yeah, it was a painful (inaudible) that’s the worst thing you can have. Losing a kid. 00:00:00.299 --> 00:56:39.299 [JJ]: Did you have, whom did you lean on? Each other? 00:00:00.300 --> 00:56:39.300 [MA]: Yeah, lot of friends. 00:00:00.301 --> 00:56:39.301 [SA]: Yes, community really. I have to say that, if it is not for our community at that time, Chinmaya Mission especially. (inaudible) 00:00:00.302 --> 00:56:39.302 [JJ]: And, his brother, that must be very traumatic experience for him also. 00:00:00.303 --> 00:56:39.303 [MA]: Yeah 00:00:00.304 --> 00:56:39.304 [SA]: Yes. Yeah, I think it changes the whole family. 00:00:00.305 --> 00:56:39.305 [JJ]: I can imagine, yeah. I can imagine. Did that bring you closer to his brother, your other son, or did that, I’m sorry to even put it this way, but does that create a rift? Or does that alienate the other? 00:00:00.306 --> 00:56:39.306 [SA]: No, I don't think so. I think they had, they had a tough time (inaudible) Everybody was uncertain with their response because nobody could (inaudible) 00:00:00.307 --> 00:56:39.307 [JJ]: I can only imagine. I’m glad that you had the community around you to 00:00:00.308 --> 00:56:39.308 [SA]: Oh yes, yes. And I think, you know what, it took the kids 4, 5 years to get back to normal. And for— 00:00:00.309 --> 00:56:39.309 [JJ]: Were there certain things that took, to get back to normal. 00:00:00.310 --> 00:56:39.310 [SA]: Because even for them, it was very difficult for them to come home and see us being sad. And then, you know, they used to feel themselves guilty that they have not done enough for (inaudible) 00:00:00.311 --> 00:56:39.311 [JJ]: I see. Yeah, I can only imagine. For you, especially, your father also lost his parents, for example, like when he was very young. Your childhood, however, was among your siblings and your parents. This difference is so stark, between your childhood and the way, you being a parent. 00:00:00.312 --> 00:56:39.312 [MA]: Right. But my children had a good time when they grew up, I spent a lot more time than her, taking care of them. 00:00:00.313 --> 00:56:39.313 [JJ]: I see. How did that happen? 00:00:00.314 --> 00:56:39.314 [MA]: Because of my job. It’s a very tough job for her. 00:00:00.315 --> 00:56:39.315 [JJ]: It was longer hours for— 00:00:00.316 --> 00:56:39.316 [MA]: Longer hours 00:00:00.317 --> 00:56:39.317 [SA]: Longer hours, yeah. And then night calls and everything. 00:00:00.318 --> 00:56:39.318 [MA]: Night calls. And so, I practically, mom. 00:00:00.319 --> 00:56:39.319 [JJ]: That’s how you got a chance to teach them Telegu? 00:00:00.320 --> 00:56:39.320 [MA]: Right. Right. 00:00:00.321 --> 00:56:39.321 [SA]: You know, I think, he took them out. And then he used to take them for fishing and, you know, games to play and all that. Yeah, so they had a good childhood. 00:00:00.322 --> 00:56:39.322 [JJ]: Did you feel like you were left out a little bit? 00:00:00.323 --> 00:56:39.323 [SA]: No, I feel guilty that I didn't spend enough time with them, looking back. But you know, sometimes the choices we make are difficult. 00:00:00.324 --> 00:56:39.324 [JJ]: And how is the, how has the relationship progressed as the kids are now totally independent, living their own adult lives. 00:00:00.325 --> 00:56:39.325 [MA]: I just, we treat them like friends. 00:00:00.326 --> 00:56:39.326 [SA]: Now, yes, yeah, we 00:00:00.327 --> 00:56:39.327 [MA]: They come once in a while. 00:00:00.328 --> 00:56:39.328 [SA]: They come and spend, my daughter comes and spends-- 00:00:00.329 --> 00:56:39.329 [MA]: No grandchildren. 00:00:00.330 --> 00:56:39.330 [SA]: Neither one of them. I don’t know, they didn’t want to have children. 00:00:00.331 --> 00:56:39.331 [JJ]: Is that a conscious decision, was that— 00:00:00.332 --> 00:56:39.332 [SA]: I think it was a conscious decision. 00:00:00.333 --> 00:56:39.333 [MA]: Conscious decision. 00:00:00.334 --> 00:56:39.334 [SA]: And, maybe, I don't know. 00:00:00.335 --> 00:56:39.335 [JJ]: Do you ever get to speak about, I’m sorry I didn’t catch his name. 00:00:00.336 --> 00:56:39.336 [MA]: Ravi. 00:00:00.337 --> 00:56:39.337 [JJ]: Ravi, do you ever get to speak about Ravi. 00:00:00.338 --> 00:56:39.338 [MA]: Never, I never did (inaudible) 00:00:00.339 --> 00:56:39.339 [SA]: No, I did, but he says, Oh mama, I don’t think we need, we have lot of children on 00:00:00.340 --> 00:56:39.340 [MA]: Planet. 00:00:00.341 --> 00:56:39.341 [SA]: So, I can help them out. There are lot of people in need of help than having my own, it doesn’t matter. So I said, “Okay.” 00:00:00.342 --> 00:56:39.342 [JJ]: It sounds like a very cruel question, but did you have an expectation of grandchildren? 00:00:00.343 --> 00:56:39.343 [SA]: No, I think, everybody wants to have, but when they decided they didn't want, it didn’t bother us. At least it didn’t bother my (inaudible) 00:00:00.344 --> 00:56:39.344 [JJ]: Okay, and how about you? Did you accept it immediately, did it take you some time to adjust to this. 00:00:00.345 --> 00:56:39.345 [MA]: It took some time to adjust. It’s a natural process to have grandchildren. If not, not much you can do. 00:00:00.346 --> 00:56:39.346 [SA]: No, because you know, I feel that they need to feel that they wanted the children. So because, they are the one to raise them. And then we are here to enjoy them if you have them (inaudible) 00:00:00.347 --> 00:56:39.347 [JJ]: Especially because they live far away. I can imagine. So what do you do in your leisure time? What do you do now? Are both of you retired now? 00:00:00.348 --> 00:56:39.348 [SA]: Yes. **laughs** Yeah, he thought I’m enjoying my life too much, so he took of retirement very fast. **laughs** 00:00:00.349 --> 00:56:39.349 [MA]: There’s not but to do, exercise, and things like that. Own time, take a nap. And some phone call, sometimes, friends. And, we’re not travelling that much any more. 00:00:00.350 --> 00:56:39.350 [JJ]: Did you used to travel a lot? 00:00:00.351 --> 00:56:39.351 [MA]: We were going, mostly India. 00:00:00.352 --> 00:56:39.352 [SA]: Mostly India, and also we travelled abroad also, but not for— 00:00:00.353 --> 00:56:39.353 [JJ]: Vacation? 00:00:00.354 --> 00:56:39.354 [SA]: Last— 00:00:00.355 --> 00:56:39.355 [MA]: Vacations. 00:00:00.356 --> 00:56:39.356 [SA]: Yeah, but last 4, 5 years since I retired, I was spending my time with my mom, whatever 4 months I used to go spend with her and then I come back Chicago, weather is good. So we (inaudible) We enjoyed (inaudible) 00:00:00.357 --> 00:56:39.357 [JJ]: And, how do you occupy yourself? 00:00:00.358 --> 00:56:39.358 [SA]: My, I guess I don’t know. I’m a person I enjoy people when I have people around me. When I don’t have it, I’ll be happy by myself. So I have, I belong to 2 book clubs. So that gives me lot of reading to do, so I keep reading the books. 00:00:00.359 --> 00:56:39.359 [JJ]: Do you enjoy reading? 00:00:00.360 --> 00:56:39.360 [SA]: I enjoy reading. That’s my passion. 00:00:00.361 --> 00:56:39.361 [JJ]: Anything in particular, any genre? 00:00:00.362 --> 00:56:39.362 [SA]: Oh God, I read-- 00:00:00.363 --> 00:56:39.363 [MA]: Fiction 00:00:00.364 --> 00:56:39.364 [SA]: --any, any. Fiction, not sometime you know, even mysteries, or spiritual, you know, I’m trying to read more of spiritual books, now, maybe past few years. I got into it. I’m always interested, but I think I, maybe I don’t know, now I enjoy trying to make meaning for the life that I’m here. 00:00:00.365 --> 00:56:39.365 [JJ]: Do you find some of the answers that bother you, some questions that bother you, in literature? 00:00:00.366 --> 00:56:39.366 [SA]: Yeah, it does, because at least, the spiritual aspect now I see it is everything you think what you’re doing is, we have to train your mind. Because, half of our problems, most of our problems, is how our mind thinks. So train our mind to have, you know, good thoughts. And have a balanced mind. Once we have balanced mind, I think life around you, I think is much better. 00:00:00.367 --> 00:56:39.367 [JJ]: I'm very glad you said that, because my next question was, is there any advice you would give to, say and Indian who wants to immigrate today to America? Knowing that you know now. Having learned your lessons. Are there certain things you would like to tell that person of Indian origin coming here? 00:00:00.368 --> 00:56:39.368 [SA]: I think all, I think when we are younger age, we all want things differently. You know, either education wise, or financially, you want to get better. Because when you don't have opportunities in our own country, when you don’t have it, you come. But I think it’s better to prepare our mind. Hard work pays off no matter where we are. And I think we still have to keep our integrity and our religion, our Hinduism, what we are. I think we should, we should keep it with us. I think that is the strong backbone for us is our own Hinduism, what we have. And what we are taught. If you look at the Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavad Gita is nothing but how to live this life. I wish they have it in our schools, make the kids stronger by learning Gita since they were kids. You didn’t have to go through, you know, 50 some years old, or 60 some years old to read the book and learn about life. 00:00:00.369 --> 00:56:39.369 [JJ]: I see. You see it as a manual, so to speak. 00:00:00.370 --> 00:56:39.370 [SA]: No, I think it is really. Because I’ve been reading it for a while, I think every time I look at it, I wish I would have known this before. I won’t suffer in my life like lot of things you suffer that you don’t have. 00:00:00.371 --> 00:56:39.371 [JJ]: And do you have any advice. 00:00:00.372 --> 00:56:39.372 [MA]: I think is more, right now, most of the immigration and the kids from India and all over the world, they want to come here to make money. I think they should think twice. It’s not just money, they have to see the, they don’t know the impact of the future generations will have. One thing, if you don’t have money, you will be like a--it's not easy to survive in this country. At least in India, you have some way of back up society. It’s not here. They have to think about it. 00:00:00.373 --> 00:56:39.373 [JJ]: That’s very important. What impact, over the years, do you think Indian Americans have made a lot of impact in America, in Chicago in particular? What kind of impact do you see? (inaudible) 00:00:00.374 --> 00:56:39.374 [SA]: I think we have really. I think all of the people who came, Indians, at least in my generation. The younger generation are still evolving, but in our generation, when we came, most of the people are educated. Most of the people are either engineers, doctors, or something the scientist or whatever it is-- 00:00:00.375 --> 00:56:39.375 [JJ]: Highly skilled. 00:00:00.376 --> 00:56:39.376 [SA]: Yeah. They’re all came here and then everybody worked hard to be where they are today. And then also, they have contributed to the lot to it, in their own medical fields. Or trying to keep our culture by, you know, at least by building the Temple. And, also I think lot of people does lot of volunteer work in aspects to, at least, improve the quality of our people’s lives. And, one thing that I, I don’t think we ever depended on the, how do I say on the-- 00:00:00.377 --> 00:56:39.377 [MA]: Public Aid 00:00:00.378 --> 00:56:39.378 [SA]: --government fund. You know, we have never depended on the government to provide us anything, really. Because we worked hard and paid our dues and then we paid our taxes, did everything. 00:00:00.379 --> 00:56:39.379 [MA]: I never took a loan in my life, except the house. When I bought my first car for $1800, after I made the money, not— 00:00:00.380 --> 00:56:39.380 [JJ]: Was that for the Skokie house? 00:00:00.381 --> 00:56:39.381 [SA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.382 --> 00:56:39.382 [MA]: That was in Gary, Indiana, I bought it 00:00:00.383 --> 00:56:39.383 [SA]: No, no. We didn’t buy the house. 00:00:00.384 --> 00:56:39.384 [MA]: No, house, yeah. First house is Skokie house. 45,000. 00:00:00.385 --> 00:56:39.385 [JJ]: Bought it for 45,000? 00:00:00.386 --> 00:56:39.386 [MA]: Right. And, even the housing after that is cash only. I never borrowed money. I don't believe in it. 00:00:00.387 --> 00:56:39.387 [JJ]: (inaudible) is a lot to do. 00:00:00.388 --> 00:56:39.388 [MA]: Right. I mean, that, I was I was happy that I don't have anything I have to, that’s not the American thing. They live on debit cards, credit cards. That’s too much. 00:00:00.389 --> 00:56:39.389 [SA]: I think, this is what even our younger generation should learn from India also, you know. Because, everybody’s having this credit cards, people are spending money. I think it’s the same thing, we need to have financial independence means that you shouldn’t have debt in your back. 00:00:00.390 --> 00:56:39.390 [MA]: That’s my advice. 00:00:00.391 --> 00:56:39.391 [JJ]: Is there anything about your life that maybe I have missed that you want to add? 00:00:00.392 --> 00:56:39.392 [SA]: No. The overall, I think our experience in this country is pretty good. 00:00:00.393 --> 00:56:39.393 [JJ]: Actually, I should ask you, because you’ve been in Chicago in particular for so many decades, how have you seen the city change? 00:00:00.394 --> 00:56:39.394 [SA]: City changing is good. When we came, in the beginning, like when I was in Skokie— 00:00:00.395 --> 00:56:39.395 [JJ]: Was it the early ‘70s? 00:00:00.396 --> 00:56:39.396 [SA]: ‘70s. So, downtown, Michigan Avenue is, everybody used to talk about it, Michigan Avenue, you know. But, nobody talked about it, one street behind after Madison Street because it is so much crime, people are afraid to come, go beyond that street. So everybody used to come to Michigan Avenue, go straight to Lakeshore or something, and get out of the city. And then, when I started working in the city, I used to be so afraid to come, because I used to come in the middle of the night for calls. And then I was afraid to stop the car during traffic lights, because the gunshot, stab wounds are so common and so heavy. So really, it is, crime is very high those days. But thanks to that, No no, Mayor Daley-- 00:00:00.397 --> 00:56:39.397 [MA]: Mayor Daley. 00:00:00.398 --> 00:56:39.398 [SA]: --he has improved the city. Tremendously. And, that’s how all these high rises and beautiful buildings and the parks and everything came. And the city became a little bit, more really, enticing a lot of people to come-- 00:00:00.399 --> 00:56:39.399 [MA]: No we’re going back to the same (inaudible) now. People are afraid to leave now. 00:00:00.400 --> 00:56:39.400 [SA]: It is kind of sad, now, yes. 00:00:00.401 --> 00:56:39.401 [JJ]: I see. You see there is a decline coming. 00:00:00.402 --> 00:56:39.402 [MA]: Lot of decline. 00:00:00.403 --> 00:56:39.403 [SA]: Yeah, this is only past, since the covid time. Yes. Before that, it was really good, you know, beautiful, but I hope it will turn back, I’m hoping. 00:00:00.404 --> 00:56:39.404 [JJ]: What made, what prompted the decision to move, to live here? 00:00:00.405 --> 00:56:39.405 [MA]: It’s close to working. We worked almost 10, 15 years from downtown. We lived in Oak Brook for, 10, 15 years. And commuting was bad for her night calls. So, we’re happy we’re downtown. We lived in that building ‘til 2008. And then moved here in 2008. 00:00:00.406 --> 00:56:39.406 [JJ]: And after retirement, is that still, is this still— 00:00:00.407 --> 00:56:39.407 [MA]: We want escape winter weather, but this building is so unique. It’s perfect for senior living. 00:00:00.408 --> 00:56:39.408 [JJ]: What is this building, if you can say it for us? What’s this building you’re talking about. 00:00:00.409 --> 00:56:39.409 [MA]: 340 00:00:00.410 --> 00:56:39.410 [SA]: 340. 00:00:00.411 --> 00:56:39.411 [MA]: It’s like a marvelous building, unless you live here, you don’t know what you’re missing. As a senior 00:00:00.412 --> 00:56:39.412 [SA]: No, I think, it’s like, as he said, it’s a good retirement place for seniors. Because, you know, when you reach our age, then you really want to be close to the hospital. Close to walking distance everything. Close to the grocery store where I don’t need to take a car and drive. 00:00:00.413 --> 00:56:39.413 [MA]: Mariano’s is right in the building. 00:00:00.414 --> 00:56:39.414 [SA]: So, everything is really, within distance 00:00:00.415 --> 00:56:39.415 [JJ]: Convenient. 00:00:00.416 --> 00:56:39.416 [MA]: And the park and lake are around. You can’t beat this. 00:00:00.417 --> 00:56:39.417 [JJ]: That’s wonderful. Alright, it was a pleasure to talk to you both. And thank-you so much for sharing your life journey with us. 00:00:00.418 --> 00:56:39.418 [MA]: Thank-you, Jitesh. 00:00:00.419 --> 00:56:39.419 [SA]: Thank-you, Jitesh. You’re very good, thank-you. 00:00:00.420 --> 00:56:39.420 [JJ]: This is Jitesh Jaggi for the National Indo American Museum’s Oral History Project, at Mr. and Mrs. Anne’s place, signing off.