WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PETER ALTER]: Okay. This is an interview is being conducted on February 10th, 2024 by me, Peter T Alter on behalf of the National Indo American Museum. If you could start by, please, just stating and spelling your name. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [ESHARA MONDAL]: Sure. My name is Eshara Mondal. First name is Eshara, e s h a r a, and last name is Mondal, m o n d a l. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Excellent. Where were you born? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: I was born in Edina, Minnesota, in 1991. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Okay. Fabulous. Thank you. And what year were you born? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: 1991. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Okay. Sorry. Yes. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: No worries. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Alright. Thank you. That's funny. Because, I usually like, okay. You have to be listening. So, tell us about, your family of origin, your parents, any siblings? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Sure. So, my parents were—are both from Calcutta, India. They moved, I think they were probably born in the 50’s, I'm gonna say. I think ’55, ’56 and they moved to the US in the 80’s. At least my dad did. My dad moved here in 1985. I'm not entirely sure when my mom moved here, I think, shortly after. And, well, yeah, it must have been shortly after because my brother was born. I have an older brother. He was born in, New York, Syracuse, New York in, I think, 1986 or 7. Something around there. He's five years older than me. So, probably 1986. And then they moved to Minnesota, in I don't know when they moved, but I was born there in 91. In just kinda like a town right outside Minneapolis. And then they moved shortly after that. After I was born, actually, they moved here. To this home, in Palatine, Illinois. And we've been here kind of ever since. I've moved--I've moved around a little bit. I went traveling for a bit. Me and my partner actually ended up, recently kind of buying a home in Madison, Wisconsin. So we're there, but I frequently come back here because my mom's here. My dad passed away in ’21, so he's no longer with us, but definitely in spirit. But, yeah, so I frequently come back, to see my mom maybe every month or so, just to help out and things like that. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Fabulous. Thank you. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: So being born in Minnesota, really all of your memories growing up right here in suburban, Chicago. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. For sure. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Yep. Could you, tell us a little bit, about what it was like growing up here in this community? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was very interesting, I'd say. I had because, you know, my heritage is from India. My culture is Indian. But I'm also a American. So there is always this, kind of straddling of two cultures and trying to understand, okay, when I go to school, nobody's gonna really know what dahl means, you know, or I had pop them doll. Nobody's gonna know what that means. I have to be like, “Yes. I had lentils and rice,” you know. So, like, it's just a little bit of context switching I always had to deal with. But I think it definitely enriched the type of person I am. Right? So, we have an Indian community here as well. Oh, you're probably familiar with it? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Mhmm. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: So for my—my parents are from West Bengal. So they're, Bengali, I'm Bengali. And so we have this we have a couple of communities in Chicago. One of them is called BAGC. The Bengali Association of Greater Chicago. So all of the Bengali people, are I mean, not all of them, a lot of them are part of this organization and this community, which is kind of a community within the Greater Chicago area. So I really was able to keep in touch with a lot of my heritage through that community. I have lots of family friends, who are basically my cousins. Growing up here. So it, you know, I never felt that I was too out of touch with, with, like, my parents' culture and therefore my culture. So it wasn't a huge deal. I also started doing Indian classical dancing when I was quite young. And I did that for about a decade. So I was I was very well versed in, like, a lot of Indian classical dancing is based off of, like, like, the Vedas and, like, the different types of religious texts and things like that. So I was able to, I think, keep in touch in two ways through my dance and through this, BAGC community. But at the same time, yeah, I was growing up in in an American society. So I think it's very interesting because when I was growing up, I think there were maybe two or three other Indian kids in my class. It got more as I went to, like, high school. But I remember—so I went traveling after college, and then I came back here. And I remember just being so overwhelmed with the amount of brown people I saw. I was like, “Oh my gosh. There's Indian people everywhere here.” Like, I've, like, Indian kids are like playing basketball and stuff. Like, “Oh, wow!” That's different. Very different from where I when I grew up here. And, you know, it's awesome. Very cool, to have such a diverse community within the American community now. So yeah, that was, I think, I think, most of how I how I was brought up and, you know, how I grew up here and things like that. Yeah. My schools are, like, very close to here, like, to, like, a 5-minute walk that way, a 5 minute walk that way, and maybe, like, a short bus ride up to the middle school. But Yeah. It was very, very close. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Okay. The Indian classical dancing that you did, did you do that through, like, a specific organization or group? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So, there I think a few different, Indian classical dance schools within the Chicagoland area. And one of them is called Kala Padma Dance Academy. I'm not gonna spell it because I don't know how to 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: The Internet will help. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. Sure. Sure. I'm sure you could sound it out. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: And yeah. So I, I did with them for quite a long time. I grew to know the teacher and her family very well. She's our guru, of course, So, yes, and they're based off of out of Des Plains. And some of these other dance schools are just kinda scattered around, but, there are other people within the BAGC community that actually also went to different dance schools. So that was also another interesting dynamic, you know, because you had so many people within the community also doing this other Indian classical dancing. And, there's also different types of Indian classical dancing. So I was doing part in that DM. Whereas there's [¬¬MISSING] like and stuff like that. So the those also the those other dance forms also have schools. I'm not quite sure about how many are in the Chicagoland area for that though. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: And through the BAGC, the, Bengali Association of Greater Chicago, you mentioned having connections to the local community, even as a young person, could you describe what kinds of things the organization did. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Sure. Yeah. That's a really great question. There were lots of things. Honestly, that that were offered to us as, like, a, like, as a young kid. I mean, mostly I took advantage of using these get togethers to, like, see my friends. Hang out with my friends. But, yeah, they're they would host a lot of, like, religious events. So like Puja's, they had regular Puja's every year. So they had Gali Puja [MISSING] So about four times a year, there would be a rather large event that they'd pro--they'd rent out like a high school or something like that. And, they'd bring in the deities and set it up so nicely and they also had a cultural events where they'd have dance performances, people come to sing from India. My mom actually has done a lot of work, both my parents did a lot of work in a lot of the cultural events. So they'd, you know, direct plays or, do, spoken word and things like that. So, I also did a bunch of dancing for a lot of these cultural events, which is where we did a lot of bonding, with my friends. So things like that at the also have, like, a picnic. So they have a picnic every summer. So it was, it was really great and not even during BAGC events. But, you know, the friends that you would make, you'd meet outside of BGC events. So you'd have dinners and get togethers and you know, “Oh, you want a barbecue or come on over,” sort of things. So it was really it was really a great way to meet, meet people from within your community and just keep that kind of culture alive, I think. And I'm very grateful for it. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Excellent. Thank you. So, you talked about your schools being very close by. Could you describe your life growing up in this community? Educational experiences. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So, I started off in Pleasant Hill Elementary Schools. So that was that's about, like, a 5, 10-minute walk that way. And I remember for the most part, I'd either walk to school or there would be like neighborhood kids and we'd like ride bikes together to school. You know, my parents would then, you know, pick me up perhaps. So we started off at Pleasant Hill. I was there about, from kindergarten to 6th grade. And then my middle school, which was 7th and 8th grade was plum Grove Junior High. And that's, let's say, like, a 5-minute drive from here. It's still very close, but I remember taking the bus every day for that one. And I was very excited to take the bus because I had a I had an older brother. Right? So I'd see him go every morning. I was like, oh, he looks so grown up. He's like doing things by himself, you know, getting on a vehicle and who knows where he's going. But I was I was excited, yeah, to take the bus every day. And, that was, like, another place where I could hang out with some local friends or neighborhood friends and things like that. So, that was a lot of fun. So I was there for 7th and 8th grade. And then for high school, I went to a friend, William Fremd High School, which is about a, like, a 5-minute walk. You may have, yeah, you may even past it. So it was there for high school, so 9th through 12th grade. That was that was a really sick experience, I think. Yeah. Because I had never been around so many people. So, like, you know, when you start an elementary school, you have, like, your small class, then you go to middle school, it gets bigger, and then you go to high school and it's like, “Woah, there's lots of people from so many different places around here.” I hadn't even, hadn't even thought about that, really. Lots of feeder schools. But, I mean, the education was great. The opportunities that were given to us were lovely. We had AP classes and we had very, we had, like, a gifted track and, you know, they also had remedial tracks if you needed it. But I kinda was like middle of the lane, let's say. And then some aspects were a little bit like, “Oh, I'm slightly better at math” or something like that. But I wouldn't say that I was a star student, but anyways, I said, I was okay, I’m passable. So there's that. And so after high school is when, so I went to college after high school, and I went to UW Madison. So that's how I ended up in Madison, made a bunch of friends there. So that was that was a also completely different experience because you're totally, you know, taken out of your element, to a certain degree. Right? And you have to figure out there you're still within a controlled environment because you're still in college, but you're still trying to figure out, you know, like, what by yourself to, you know, like, what am I gonna eat tonight? You know, you gotta figure out your own life stuff. For the first time. I guess if you're lucky, yeah, for the first time. But, the that was that was also very fun. And you when I got to college, they also had—And I should say this for high school too. The high school here didn't have like an Asian community organization necessarily because I don't think we had enough people, frankly. But there were some high schools around that like, Indian student associations and such. So I would, through BAGC, I would realize that, oh, there are other high schools with Indian student associations, and I would go to their programs, you know, so different high school programs. And the same in college as well is, I would join the Indian Student Association when I realized it was there and then it was another kind of microcosm of in, like, Indian culture. But this time, it wasn't just Bengali culture. It was you know, Gujarati culture, Punjabi culture. So lots of different people from different backgrounds, even though we all call ourselves Indian. So it that was also very fun. Like, I was in a, I was in a Garba group for a little bit. So I was, I was soaking up other people's culture too. So I was that was that was a very fun experience for me. Yeah. But that so after college, I that that's kind of the end of my education journey. I haven't really gone further than that. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Okay. Backtracking just slightly. You mentioned, some sort of extracurriculars at the University of Wisconsin Madison. How about at Fremd High School, for example? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. That's good. So I was I was part of a few sports teams. I think that was the main thing that I was really interested in. So I had joined like the basketball team for a bit, until I realized I wasn’t very great at basketball. And then, yeah, “I like it, but it's I'm not very good at it.” And then, the other sport that I really enjoyed playing was lacrosse. So we had a lacrosse team, in high school, and I ended up really enjoying that, and being half decent at it too. So that was, was a lot of fun. I think it was mostly just sports. Other than that, like, growing up, I was a huge nerd too, so I was very interested in, like, video games and computers and such like that. So I would essentially, like, go to school, do the school thing, do the sports thing and come back. Maybe do some homework and then play video games. So that was that was kinda like a It was kind of, my life. Yeah. But that that was a lot of fun. Like, lacrosse was really great. I met quite a few, quite a few other, like, girls in my same age. And, you know, it was kind of like a bonding moment with people that I would not have stepped outside my friend group to meet. So I think I think that was that was a lot of fun for me. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Did you, in, at Fremd high school, did you gravitate towards any particular subjects like, “Oh, I really like this.” 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So I really enjoyed the sciences, I would say. So things like Physics, Biology and Chemistry were really interesting to me. I found—I thought chemistry was probably my favorite class just because, of all the experiments we were able to do. So, you know, mixing concoctions, and but you have a lab partner and you have to take lab notes. It felt very official to me, I think. So I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed Chemistry, I’d say. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: And then, transitioning into UW Madison. Academically, what your interests? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So, actually, I started out as a chemistry major. So that that was, probably the thing that I've, like, first thought off the bat. I will say that when I started university, I was pretty gung ho on becoming a doctor because that is a very—I won't say stereotypical, but it's a very, I think, obvious choice for a lot of Indian immigrant families. It's a well-paid job and you have great benefits and all that fun stuff. So that's what I thought I was gonna be at first. So I decided, okay, the chemistry major will be in service of that. But then I realized that, while my aspirations to help people were sound, I don't know that how great I would be dealing with death. So I was like, “Maybe this maybe this isn't really for me, not my jam.” So, I started so I was still interested in chemistry, but chemistry, pure chemistry was, I was finding very difficult. Because it is a pretty heady subject and I was not quite up there. So, after that, I was I was very fascinated in Chemistry, but Biochemistry was really something very interesting to me and then how that applies in your brain, was very interesting to me. So my line changed to Neurobiology, I was very fascinated in things like meditation, psychosomatics, psychoactive substances. So, like, all of these things were very fascinating to me. You know, if you meditate for 10 minutes every single day, you can see, like, active changes in your frontal lobe. And I was like, “What? That's crazy. Your brain just does that? Okay.” So that I found that very fascinating, and that's what I ended as a degree was, in Neuroscience. But then I also had a minor in Education Policy. I guess I still do. Such a long time ago. So, yeah, so I have a minor in education policy, which I was—because I had learned that the brain can change over time, I was very fascinated in how you can apply neuroscience to education. So I learned as much as I could about education policy. And when I did, I was like, “Wow, this is crazy.” What the US has done with education is pretty crazy. So that was also very enlightening. So that's what I ended up with is a neurobiology degree with a education policy minor. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: And to follow-up on your word “crazy”? Could you expand on that? What that means to you, what the US has done? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Oh, oh my gosh. Oh my. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: --that’s crazy. Yes. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Okay. Right. So I remember being in, let's see, like, a Sociology of Education class. And we had to read a few fair few different books about, policy within the US and then also policy from other countries. And in doing that, I was like, you know, like, Finland or China has all these education policies in place, like, why doesn't the US have it in place? Because it seems like a very good pedagogical idea or perhaps it just, you know, just kinda makes sense. So I would ask my professor this, and my professor would be like, “Oh, do you know the history of the US? Do you know that there were Puritans here first? And did you do you know that, like, the Puritans are who created universities here? And, really, it's based off of religion.” And I was like, “Oh, wow! Like, I hadn't even thought about that! And you know, I guess you're right.” Yeah. Like, the whole history behind, the educational institutions within the United States is, all founded on kind of religious contexts and religious spaces. Even though you wouldn't necessarily know that just in modern days, I guess. But you can kind of see that at least during the time that I was in the education system, I found it to be pretty constrictive. Right? So you have a very a prescriptive way of, teaching your students so that they fulfill the end goal of having good assessments because, apparently, assessments is what counts actually in the long run, to identify if a student is growing over time. So I find that fascinating and I think it just, just blew my mind a little bit because I had never thought about it from within from my educational experience, until I had learned that really what matters for an education system is, like, how a student is testing. I didn't I really apply that to myself. And then, you know, there'd be instances in school where I'd feel bad that I did bad on a test. Or something like that. And it made me feel dumb. And but that's not actually the case—the only measure that you have is not from school. Right? There are other ways to educate yourself, and you can do that outside of the education system. But I think from within the education system, you only get feedback that, “Oh, you're doing well a test or you're not doing well on a test,” and that is the only kind of paradigm in which they grade you. So I thought, I think the whole history of the education system, how it is instituted and perhaps, how it makes students feel is, I always thought was very fascinating. And, yeah. I went down this whole rabbit hole of perhaps even trying to get a PhD in Educational Philosophy, but then I was like, this is—this is maybe too much. So maybe we'll stop at just a little bit of education policy. And, yeah, I still very much believe these things. And, yes, it is—and so maybe we'll talk about, my work and in a bit here, but I do, yeah, I do work for a nonprofit that does that's related to education. So, yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Fabulous. Thank you. To backtrack chronologically a little bit. You mentioned having an older brother, born four years before you. What was your relationship like growing out kind of following each other through school? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. That's a really interesting question. My brother, I think I always loved him, but there were definitely in those early years is we were definitely, like, at odds for sure. And I think my brother more so than me because, I kind of just saw him. It's like, “Oh, he's my brother. I'm gonna do whatever he does, and we're gonna hang out all the time,” but I don't think he liked that very much. So yeah. I think he had a little bit tougher time of it, than I did unfortunately. But we are, so when we were younger, we were, like, pretty like, I would say, like, when I was a toddler, we were fine. It's like when we were getting into those middle school, high school years, I think, that we really started to butt heads. And that's that could just be like a teenager thing or something like that. But, yeah, I think I envied him a little bit because he was like, very good at school. He was, you know, straight A student, very smart guy. So he actually ended up, so through middle school and then high school, he did his first year at Fremd high school, and then he ended up going to, the Illinois Math and Science Academy in Aurora. And that is kind of like a boarding school. So they end up, like, go going and staying there in the dorms. And after that happened, you know, he's not here anymore. I started to miss him. And I was like, “What is this feeling? I miss my brother. Like, no. That's never happened before.” So I think after that kind of departure for him, like, I think we started to grow our relationship into more of a friendship then. Because I was like, “Oh, you're leaving me alone with our crazy parents. And, like, what are you doing?” So I think we've we bonded over a fair few things, at that at that point. And now we're great friends. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Awesome. Thank you. And you also mentioned, your mom and dad, could you please talk a little bit about, what they did for a living as you were growing up living here in Palatine? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Sure. Yeah. So, my dad was an electrical engineer, so he graduated from IIT Kanpur. I hope I'm saying that right because I think there are different IITs. So sorry if that I got that wrong. But, so he graduated, which is a very, pretty prestigious technical college, in India. So he did electrical engineering, and that's how he came over to the US. He got jobs through his, degree essentially. So he was an electrical engineer. So we ended up here because he got a job at Northrop Grumman, which is close by here. So that was interesting as well as, because I hadn't learned what Northrop Grumman was until later in my life. And I was just like, because I used to go there as a kid and, like, they'd have take your child to work days, and I'll be like, “Oh, you know, cool planes and stuff,” but I didn't really realize they were a defense contractor. So I didn't realize that until later in life. And then, my mom, so she did a lot of retail work. So she, worked at JC Penny in Woodfield, for a very long time. And she did that, I think she did that for most of the time we were in school. Perhaps, not when we were, like, very, very young, but when we were able to kinda take care of ourselves after school, she worked at JCPenney for a fair few years. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Oh, okay. Alright. And you're you mentioned actually, before we turned on the recording, that your mom is also a writer. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. That's right. Yep. So she has a few published books, published books, she's mostly a poet. And she has a few books in Bengali and Bangla as well as English. So, she was, I remember actually when we were younger, she was always trying to teach us how to like, read and write Bengali. And I wasn't having it then. I was like, “I don't know what you're trying to teach me. Squiggly lines? I don't get it. It's pretty, but I don't get it.” Now I do wish I'll maybe I took a took attention or paid attention a little bit more during those lessons. But I she would always speak to us in Bangla and, you know, I can understand Bangla. I just can't speak it that well. Though I can speak it if I need to. So, yes, so she was a, she is a writer. And she situated with the full—so both of my parents were PhD holders. So my dad in electrical Engineering and my mom's, I think, philosophy, social philosophy. So, I think literature and kind of the liberal arts have always been in my life. I've always been pushed towards not only like what it, you know, what it is gonna make money in the long run, but also like what are your passions and what are your hobbies? So I think it was a very, it was a pretty fair bringing, I think. So, yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Okay. Thank you. And, you've, we talked a little bit about your Indian classical dancing, could you, especially for folks who will listen to this in the future may not know exactly what that is what that experience was like for you. Details that you wanna talk about. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So, I did that for about, I'll say 10 years. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Mhmm. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: I started when I was about 7 or 8, and I went until, my senior year in high school until I was 18. And Indian classical dance was a lot of fun. I met once again a lot of other children from other backgrounds who are also Indians, so Gujrati folks, Tamil folks and all that stuff. So, that was a lot of fun. Like, trying to understand other people's cultures. It was a lot of fun. And, like, a lot of my friends through dancing were South Indian and Bengali folks are usually North Indian. And, that was great because I love South Indian foods. I've go I would go to their homes and have those easily. And I was like, “Yes. This is great. Get away, dahl!” Like, so I was-- that was awesome just learning about other folks' cultures. But it was yeah. So each year, so the dance school itself was a school in it of itself. So it had kind of grades. And, you'd learn the basics of dance when you're young. And then throughout the years, you do more and more advanced stuff. I remember so, like, basics are just, like, learning how to stamp your feet to a beat. Understanding the different vowels, so understanding different rhythms, like 4 x 4, 7 x 8, or something like that. There's a there's just different rhythms in Indian music that are actually not found as much in Western Music. So, that I think that exposure to, like, Eastern music is was really great for me, just to see what different types of music there are out there. Right? And, being able to being able to dance to kind of like a rhythmic music was like, “Oh, okay. So you could just you could just you move your body, and then that's dancing. That's great.” So that that was a lot of fun. But, yeah, so from the very basics to doing some more complicated things, with very fast, like, feet movement, probably things that I can't do anymore today, honestly. And, so part in that DM is very expression heavy. So, really, your goal is to tell a story when you're dancing. There are there are a few dances within part of the Madiam that are purely rhythmic. And then there are other dances where you're telling a story. So I think when I was younger, I really enjoyed the rhythmic aspect. You know, you're moving really fast. You're getting your energy out. And then when I started to get older, I appreciated the storytelling aspect of it. And I really started to enjoy, you know, you can use your face to, like, kinda express to the audience, what you're feeling, and in that moment, what's supposed to be happening. And I thought that was a lot of fun. And at the end of kind of, I guess, you'll say I'll say your tenure at a dance school, you have the this event called Your Iron Gate Thrum, which is basically your graduation from your dance school. And, it's basically, like, a dance debut. So you organize, a series of dances and the dances are in order of, let's see, difficulty, I guess. So it kind of illustrates, you know, your dance journey from the beginning to the end when you're graduating. And then it's about it's about 2 a half to 3 hours of just dancing, with a live band there, if you so choose. And, I remember my senior year in high school is also when I was practicing for this iron get there, and you'll probably see some of these pictures around. Yeah. My mom really loves them. So but that's what these are these are for that aren't get thrown. So just, it is a very, it's a pretty big event. So you, prepare for it for a whole year, essentially. And I remember being really excited to prepare for it. I was at my dance teacher's house, like, pretty much every day for some weeks, and we'd go through the whole thing, all of the dances. And you'd have kind of like a cohort of girls that you graduate with as well. And I remember being so excited because, like, within the dance school, we make a really big deal of it, right, because you're graduating. You've learned so much since you've been here. And, I remember seeing, like, when I was younger, just all the older girls, going through this process, and I was like, “Oh, I can't wait for it for it to be, like, my time to go through this process too.” And it was grueling. So I don't know why I was thinking that. But, it was it was a lot of, like, it was grueling, but I think it was a lot of fun, honestly. And, like, I think it was very cool as well because, we had some, Indian musicians, like, so musicians coming from India. And they were they were experts in what they did. And I was like, they are trusting me to dance with them. Like, that that was pretty cool. Like, they play on, like, all India radio and stuff, and I was like, like, “What do you you're here for me? Like, thank you.” But, yeah, it was so fun because it was truly, like, there were moments I remember dancing during my iron get thrown where you know, it'd have a back and forth with the drummer and, like, you know, you do those, like, little those little, artistic things that when you're on the same page with another artist, it's very cool. And I think that that was very, like, I think a very almost spiritual for me because it was purely about dance. I was just enjoying myself. I was enjoying other experts. So I was like, “Oh, wow. This is a very beautiful moment, actually.” But, yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: And grueling is a strong work. Please describe what made it grueling. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. Yeah. So, Like I said, you kind of, there are two aspects, I guess, of this grueling word I'll use like, for the art and gay throm, like I said, you, practice for, like, a whole year. So you are literally dancing every night, with, your dance teacher kinda telling you, like, “Oh, you're not, you're this isn't good enough. We gotta fix this” or “make sure you pay attention to this.” So I think emotionally grueling is probably a good way to put it. And then obviously, physically too, because in in this type of Indian classical dance, you're doing a lot of footwork. So it is a lot of--And part of it is like, you know, hitting your foot hard on the around so that other people can hear the rhythms of your feet. Right? That that took a toll on my on my legs and my feet and things like that. So I remember, you know, having foot pain or just being sore general soreness everywhere. And, yeah, that that I think physically grueling is also appropriate. In Indian classical dance, you have to--do I don't I don't know what it is called in, in, , like, in, I think, Sanskrit? I don't remember what it's called, but in, Part in that game, there's this thing called a half sit, and you have to perform all of your footwork and your hand movements in your half sit. So you're always kinda like, you know, squatted a little bit. So your legs are also are also pretty it's pretty full on. But Yeah. I think I think it was a lot of fun. You're doing a lot of, like, swaying movements and such. So, yeah, physically grueling as well, especially if you take into account the fact that, you know, you're doing it for a full year up until your eye and get through them. I think, you know, it's meant to push you and, essentially just get you in shape for a 3 hour dance performance. And it definitely does that. So I don't regret at all, but I do remember days where I was, like, just so sore. And, I even remember, like, my dance teacher had a steam shower one time. And she was like, “Oh, go ahead and, you know, take a steam shower.” I was like, “What is this? Interesting.” And I was like, “Wow. Oh, wow. Great. This is it's just so relaxing.” It just, like, loosens up all of your muscles. And I was like, well, that made me love steam rooms, so that's a different story. But that was, like, it's just I didn't realize I don't think at the time how physically intensive some of the stuff was that I was doing, but of course I was young. So my body was you know, doing it without problems. So-- 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Yeah. Maybe some cross training for lacrosse. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. Exactly. That's true. That's very true. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Through the, through the BAGC, you mentioned, some sort of religious faith aspects. Did you have a temple that your family went to growing up? Could you talk about that, if so? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Sure. The, I don't know that we had necessarily specific temples we went to. There are a few different temples within the Chicagoland area that I think my parents always knew about. So they'd, always be curious about, “Oh, you know, what is this temple like, or what is that temple like?” And we'd go to various temples. And I think the temples I think are, mostly Hindu temples, but there were other temples that I think were, I guess, I almost say Hindu-adjacent or something like that. So not exactly Hindu, but they have other types of faith also worshiping in that temple. But, yeah, I thought it was it's very, it was great. Yeah. To grow up and see these different types of temples. There’s temples and ashrams too, so there were a few different, like, Swamiji’s that we would go see pretty regularly in their ashrams. And that was great as well because you kind of have, a part of, part of having, part of the faith community is, also volunteering. So that that was a way for me to volunteer for my community. Which I've I think it was enlightening. Yeah. For sure. But, Yeah. So various temples, and it I think I was always fascinated by the fact that some of these temples are very actually immaculate. Like, they're and they have different—I think I went to a temple one time with, like, marble floors. “I was like, how, how is this possible?” But, also, it was, it was very fascinating to see so many people. I think, I've never been super religious, but I think I am very happy to be raised Hindu, because Hinduism is, it's definitely less damning than Christian religions, you know, it allows you to, I think, just be who you want to be, which I've, I think I'm very lucky that I was grown—I was raised in a Hindu household. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Okay. Fabulous. And a follow-up question there. You mentioned, volunteering in your community being interesting. What made it interesting or enlightening? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So I think just the aspect of giving back was is very enlightening in the sense that I don't feel like, I didn't feel like I was doing everything for myself, right? Giving back to your community and helping those who perhaps can't help themselves or are looking for help, is and to be able to provide that help is really, like, I feel I feel good doing acts like that. So, I think that aspect and also volunteering allowed me to, once again, start interacting with a community that I wouldn't normally in my day to day. So, I think that that was really great too because you're volunteering, you're making friends as well with your other volunteers. And you're kind of all there for the same reason. So I think there's just general good vibes when you go to places like this where you're volunteering. So I think just having the ability to volunteer and just have a good time was really great. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Okay. Just shifting gears a little bit a bit back to your education. What's drew you to UW Madison? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So, I remember so I've I think in high school or middle school, I started to really want to, like, travel or go somewhere away from here. It wasn't a bad place to grow up at all, but at the same time, I kind of thought perhaps, oh, like, you know, “If my culture can be so different, you know, what are other cultures like?” So, I started to think a little bit more. And I think, being raised Indian. I think that is kind of like kinda gives somebody a seed of like, “Oh, you know, people are different.” Right? So I think, what drew me to UW Madison is essentially that it wasn't in Illinois. So I was looking for a place because I didn't wanna go to, like, U of I or UIC where I'd see, like, half the people from my high school anyway. I wanted to really just get out there and meet totally different people. And UW Madison presented that opportunity for me. And it was a very beautiful campus too. It still is a pretty beautiful campus. It's not surrounded by cornfields. It's in, like, a relatively, it—we'll say a city, but we're from Chicago, and this area’s not a huge city for us. It's but, yeah, it was like a pretty big town, college town. So I that that's why I ended up there is because I kinda wanted to go outside of where people normally go around these around these areas for college and just meet completely new people. So 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Alright. So far, we've kind of we've focused on your family of origin. You have a family now. Could you talk a little bit about, how you met your partner? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So my partner's name is Rose, and we met in New Zealand in 2018. So, I talked a little bit about, like, really wanting to travel. And after university, I did just that. So I worked for about a year. I saved up as much as I could, and I started to travel, but myself. So I started off in, like, Southeast Asia, and then I met somebody from New Zealand there who had told me about a working holiday visa. So I was like, okay. I'm gonna do that. I gotta go work in New Zealand. That sounds great. So that's how I ended up in New Zealand. I went there in about 2016. And by 2018, I was I was kind of make my transition out of New Zealand, because I had realized, like, “It's actually very far from everything. So maybe I don't necessarily want to be here for the rest of my life, even though it's a very beautiful country, for sure.” So on my way out of New Zealand in 2018, I like, for about a month, a month and a half, at the end of my time there, I was doing a road trip through New Zealand. And I happen to go through the town that Rose was staying in, Wanaka, New Zealand. And, I met her at a—so she worked at a at, like, a recycle or upcycle shop. So people would drop off things they wanna donate, and they would either, they would go through it and either recycle it or resell it. So I ended up going to that shop because I was like, “Oh, this this sounds cool.” And I remember just she came up to me and we just started chatting. So that's how we met. And she was like, “Oh, yeah. You know, you're if you're traveling, then, do you wanna, like, meet up with my friends after work? And, you know, we can we can talk about a little bit about your plans and such.” So I was like, “Yeah. Sure.” You know? And that's how it went, I guess. It was, yeah, it was a very it was weirdly serendipitous I didn't, you know, neither I don't think either of us expected it. So we're it was, yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: How did the, oh, how did your relationship grow from there when you're pretty far from the Midwest US in New Zealand? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. I think part of the reason that I wanted to travel was to just find myself and have the space to grow in the way that I, like, felt like I wanted to or needed to. So part of that was exploring, like, you know, my sexuality and, like, the type of person that I feel like I wanna be with and the partnership So I that's part of the reason why I started to travel. And when I met Rose, I was like, “Oh, this is, you know, this feels really good.” I, like, I hadn't thought about maybe being with another woman and, like, I did, but also at the same time, I was like, “How is this ever gonna happen?” Right? So I guess it just did, but I remember—so I met her, and I remember telling her about my plans to go camping, at this campsite that was nearby. She was like, “Oh, you don't wanna go there. Yeah. It's there's too many sand flies there right now. Why don't you come crash on our couch and, you know, we'll go I'll let you know how it is tomorrow.” So I was like, “Okay. I will not say no to free accommodations. So thank you.” So, yeah, like, we kind of, like, we kind of, like, grew our relationship there. I asked her to come, to, like, another national park with me. And we kind of did a little bit of traveling together, a little bit of, like, hiking. And I remember when we were camping together, one night, I remember just being like, “I think I love this person.” And it happened it happened really fast. So I don't know what that says about me, but that It happened very quick. And I remember, the amount of time like, I was supposed to move on from Wanaka a few different times, but I actually came back a couple of times just because I wanted to see Rose. And the last time I was leaving, I remember having a conversation with her. And I was like, “So, you know, like, I have very strong feelings for you. I am obviously leaving to the US. So I don't know how this will work. We can try to make it work if you think you have plans to maybe move one day as well.” And she said, “Yeah. You know, let's make it work. I really like you as well. We can at least try. And if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.” So that that's kind of been our I think that's kind of been our, like, mentality through our whole relationship is like, “We'll try. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.” So, okay. Yeah. So I moved back to the US, and Rose is still in New Zealand. So we were long distance for—she was in New Zealand for, like, I think another year? And then she moved back to the UK. And it was interesting because New Zealand, I think, is like, I wanna say, like, 17 hours ahead of the US. So that timing actually worked out pretty well because, like, I would wake up and then we would talk, like, in my afternoon because that's, like, kinda when she would wake up for the next day. So it was it the timing actually worked out pretty well. It was actually when she moved to the UK that the timing was, like, worse when we were trying to talk to each other. Because they're 6 hours ahead. So by the time I'm free, she's, like, sleeping. And by the time I wake up, she's working. “So it's like, Oh, okay. This is even worse. How is that possible?” But, but, yeah, so she was there for about 3 years. So we obviously, COVID happened, so we hadn't expected that. Nobody did. So, when she had been visiting me, before COVID, so she had visited me a couple of times before COVID happened when she was in the UK. And then COVID happened, and then the borders got closed. So, we weren't able to see each other for a couple years, which was really, really hard on our relationship. But, you know, with, you know, video chat and all that stuff, we were still able to see each other. Just weren't able to hug each other, which really sucked. But seeing each other was at least something. So we would pretty much chat every single day. And just keeping that communication up, I think, really helped our relationship. And the fact that we were, I think, able to get through that was has made our relationship very strong as well. But Anyway, the we were there for 2 years. We weren't able to see each other. And then in 2021. 2021? 2020? 2021! I think 2021. In July of 2021, we got married. So, we were like, “Okay. Well, we're probably gonna get married anyway.” And one of the only ways for her to come visit me in the US was if one of them is, if you're married to a US citizen. So was like, “Okay. Why don't we just get married? And if it doesn't work, then then okay. It didn't work.” But, So we got we got married actually in the UK in July of 2021. And, Yeah. Okay. Yeah. July of 2021. I keep forgetting his 2024. Oh, okay. I keep thinking his 2023. Okay. So 2021. And then, that that was great. We had a lovely wedding in the UK. During COVID time, so there wasn't, like, a huge amount of people, but there were plenty of folks their, Rose's family and friends mostly. And my brother came, so he was there as well. My parents couldn't come, unfortunately. Because at that time, my dad had gotten ill as well. So in 20 actually in, like, 2010, 2011, when I was a freshman in college, my dad started to have, like, strokes. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Oh, 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Wow. So, yeah, so he had he we had realized we had learned that he had cardiomyopathy at that time. So he had been kind of ill for some time. And in 2021 he was kind of a little bit more on the decline. Though, though, you know, he was always very positive. So anytime you'd be like, “Oh, how are you doing? He'd be like, I'm great. How are you?” And, like, it's like, oh, okay. Come on. But he's a, yeah, he's a very, very positive guy. So that that yeah. He was always a light. You know? So, we got married in 2021. And then after that, I came back here and we were still a little bit long to instance. And then in May of 2022 is when Rose came here. So she's been here for a couple of years, almost a couple of years now. But, yeah, so she was able to come join me here in 2022. Okay. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: So, to clarify, it sounds like Rose is from the UK? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yes. That's right. She's a British citizen. Yep. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Fabulous. Alright. Thank you. That was that was great. So, we'll backtrack a little bit and, if you could talk about that process of exploring your sexuality, which you mentioned. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Sure. Yeah. I think there were, like, when I was younger, they're, like, inklings in my mind. I was like, “You know, like, all my friends are, like, pining over these guys, but like, I think they're attractive, but I'm not, like, I don't want them near me. So I don't I don't know what this means. Exactly. Like, you're my friend, but don't touch me.” Like, that's fine. But, yeah, I just I felt differently, like, about men when I was younger. So I was I was kinda like and, you know, we didn't really talk about sexuality in the household or anything like that. So it was kind of like, I didn't realize there were other ways to live your life. Right? And when I started to travel, I met so many different types of people from so many different places with so many different types of backgrounds. I was just like, so, really, there's many ways to live your life and be happy. And you don't have to do, like, you don't have to do what you see in the mainstream. Right? That's usually like a man woman, having children, having house, whatever. So I didn't realize that you could live your life in so many different ways and still be happy. And I think that's probably the biggest thing that traveling taught me. And when I met so many different types of people, I was like, oh, like, you know, I met I met lesbian couples, and I was I was like, “So you guys are happy? Like, this is a hap—you guys are happy?” And, yeah, they were like, “Yeah, we're definitely happy.” You know, the way that they would talk about their significant others, I was like, I didn't realize this was a way that I could live my life. And, I think it didn't hit me until I was, like, 26 I wanna say where I was, like, I was struggling with myself a little bit because I was trying to understand you know, “Why don't I feel this way about, like, men? Like, why don't I feel this way?” And it I think in when I was 26, I was like, I just had this, like, thing click in my head. I was like, “You're gay.” Like, that's what it is. And then I was like, “Oh, I see!” And I started to date go on dates with women, and I found that at the spark there was just it was there. Where it wasn't with men. And I was like, “Oh, this is what it's supposed to feel like. You're supposed to feel giddy. You're supposed to get these butterflies and stuff like that,” where I did not have that before. So I was just I think it just, like, it's just a slap across my face. I was like, “Oh, this is how it supposed to feel,” you know. When I kissed a woman for the first time, I was like, “Wow! This is amazing. Like, why doesn't everyone do this?” Like, so I think that was, it took me a while to figure it out definitely because it wasn't until I started traveling and meeting different types of folks, that I really, I think, realize that it's okay to live this way. And it's funny because I think a lot of people figure that out maybe in college or a little bit earlier. But UW Madison is not the most diverse place, actually, if you could believe. But so that I think that was probably really interesting for me is, like, I in my mind, I was like, “Why did it take me so long?” Until I was 26 to try to figure out that, you know, maybe I'm not attracted to men. And I think part of it was because just there maybe there were no examples around me, to kind of compare myself to or anything like that. There were examples of, I guess, like, heterosexual couples or gay couples, like gay man couples. But I didn't see any from my perspective, I didn't see any lesbian couples just walking around. So I was like, oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. So it took me a while, but I got there. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: So, around the time that you're 26 and you're starting to date women. What was that like talking to your family and friends? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. Yeah. I think some of my friends knew some of my friends are just kinda like, “Oh, that makes sense. Like, okay. That makes a lot of sense.” A lot of my are very happy for me. They're like, “We're so happy that you figured it out and, like, you feel good about your self now and you feel aligned.” You know, there's just something that clicks and you're just like, “Oh, this is who I am.” Right? So, that I think a lot of my friends were just very, very open and happy about, me coming to that realization. So I did, I was nervous about telling not only my family, but the people within the BGGC community that I had grown up with. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Mhmm. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: I was also very nervous to tell them. But so I told my family first. And I remember I was very upset. Like, I came home to my mom and my dad, and I you know, at this point, I was just like, you know, “I have to tell them. Otherwise, it's, you know, whether or not they accept me at least my truth is out there and I don't have to I don't have to hide myself.” So I thought it was very important for me to just grow as a human to make sure that my parents knew who I was. So I told my parents, I remember crying. I remember being like, “I'm so sorry.” And I think my mom took it very hard. But my dad, I remember him being like, you know, “Don’t cry. This is this is who you are. Don't cry.” I was like, “Okay...” I'm still balling. But, yeah, I think my dad—I don't think he likes he I don't know that he fully understood it, but I think he, he definitely accepted me as, as, as I was. So that was very lovely. You know, he'd also he'd asked me the all this the questions, like, “Who's the man in the relationship?” You know, I'm like, “Oh, well, there is no man. That's the whole point.” So there there's some learning to do or some teaching to do. But more out of just curiosity than, like, animosity. Right? So I think he's just curious about things. But I think my mom, it took a very long time for her to come to terms with who I am. And I think there's still some struggle in there. But so we Rose and I got married in 2021 in the UK. We had a huge Indian wedding just last year in November. So my mom was super helpful in getting and putting all of that together. So I think while even while she might have some dissonance within herself about how I am or who I am, she still loves me. And I think that was the thing that I wasn't expecting, honestly. Like, I was like, “For sure, my parents are gonna kick me out of the house. They're gonna disown me. They're not even gonna think about me after this,” But it was completely the opposite. And I was just floored obviously because I was like, I can be I can be myself now. I can truly be myself. And I will credit my brother too for helping my parents understand, like, you know, what does this mean? Like, can she have children, you know, things like that? And I because, you know, they're worried about just me growing as a human as your parents might do. And so I think my brother was also there so guide them and help answer questions and things like that. So, yeah. And when I when I told—so I told my parents first. And then I told the other folks in the community, in the BAGC community, and they did not care. So I was like, I was like, “What? Like, I was scared this whole time to tell you, and you're just like, so what?” I was like, “Oh, what?” Part of me, I was, like, part of me was, like, offended weirdly, but the other part of me was like, “Oh, okay. Like, it was fine this whole time.” So I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, I mean, I have very close ties to a lot of, like, my friend's parents as well too. So it was it like, it was interesting some of the questions that they would ask. And, you know, it was it's like kind of it kind of has blossomed into, like, start to educate the BAGC community about other ways of life once again. Right? Like, you can live in these different ways and it's okay. You can still be happy. And I think as because there are so many people from the younger generation now in BAGC, I know that at our wedding, I had a couple of younger people from BAGC come up to us and be like, “Thank you for doing this. You know, thank you for having such a big wedding so that all these people from our community could come.” And I was like, you know, I hadn't really been expecting that. So I was like, “Yeah, of course.” You know, like, I think it's just starting to have the community have this exposure in a in a positive way, I think is was really important in a way that I hadn't foreseen before we had our wedding. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Thank you. You mentioned your brother. Could you expand on that a little bit in terms of his role in interacting with your family around your sexuality. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So I think told my brother first and pretty early. Like, right when I got that slap in the face of, like, “Oh, you're gay.” I called him and I was like, “Yoshi. I'm gay.” He was like, “Oh, okay. That explains some things.” And I was trying to talk to him. I was like, “How do I tell our parents? Like, what do I say? How do I explain it?” And you know, he's my brother. So he was joking. He's like, if I was gay, I'd just get married and show up with my husband. I was like, okay. I don't know if I wanna do just that. I've maybe given them some forewarning beforehand. So, yeah, he was very lighthearted about it. And I think that was really helpful in, preparing myself to tell my parents, right, and, you know, he's always been so supportive, like, okay, if they do kick you out, you could just live with me, you know. And things like that. So he's he was very he was always very supportive and he was also of the of the ilk of, like, who cares you're gay, you know, like, you can you could still have all the things you want even if you, like, are married to a woman. It's not a big deal. And I in I think in my head, I was making it a big more a bigger deal than other people were, like, or other people cared about. And I always find that part fascinating is, like, in my brain, it's like a huge deal. But for other people, they probably don't care, actually. And I got that sense from my brother too, where he was just like, you know, as long as you're happy and you're doing what makes you happy, then it shouldn't it shouldn't matter to other people. You know, their opinions, their opinions, they're not, like, what you should be doing. Right? So he was he was very supportive in that way, and I know when I came out to my parents that, you know, my mom definitely leaned on him quite a bit. My brother to kind of have tell have him explain what it meant, because I think in some ways it was inconceivable, like 2 women getting married. And I think my brother kind of was like, you know, It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. It's just about the love. Right? And I think that kind of kind of made things a little bit more palatable from my mom to get over the fact that, like, I would be married to another woman. And it's like, oh, my gosh. So some something crazy is happening. I think he just he just made it. He explained it to her in a way that made it feel like it wasn't so damning in her eyes. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: So the wedding, here, could you please tell us about that? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. Oh, that was a whole journey. So, weddings are stressful. So if anybody's listening to this, weddings are stressful. So that that was fun. But, yeah, it was a so we had it in Milwaukee at the Mitchell Park domes, which is a beautiful venue if you've ever been. It's a conservatory there, and we had it in November. So it was a little bit chilly, but, on the day of it was actually great. It was, I think, like, maybe mid or something like that. So it was great, great weather. And it, so we had planned it for essentially a year. So we had it in November of 2023, I guess, that was last year. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Mhmm. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: And we started planning in, like, November of 2022. So the whole, yeah, a whole year, we had about, like, 350 people there. So it was a very big wedding. And that was it was a very interesting process. So once again, In my mind, going to venues, going to these different vendors to supply us with, like, food or like, a wedding planner. In my brain, I was like, oh, you know, we're a gay couple. They're gonna have some type of bias towards us, but everybody we worked with was so lovely. We didn't feel that way at all. And, you know, the end product shows that. Right? Like, it was a very I can't remember most of it because it was very stressful, but from what I do remember, I do remember it being very beautiful. So I yeah. So we started the planning process. We got a wedding planner. We talked to a venue. Did all that fun stuff, went to tastings, went cake tasting. So, it was it was pretty full on, and I think a big part of it was the fact that we wanted it to be a Hindu ceremony. So, we had to, you know, source all of, like, the saris and the jewelry and all that stuff. So that that was a huge part of it. And then we also had to find a priest. So, trying to find a priest to perform a same sex Hindu marriage was difficult. We were in a lurch for a little bit because, there are priests within the BAGC community or just the Indian community in general in Chicago that kind of, are known for doing the marriages and different pujas and things like that. But when my mom had asked them, they said no, or they'd say, we don't know how to do it for two women. And so they'd maybe come up with excuses legit or not. Who knows? I don't know the scriptures. But at some point, we did find an ashram with a priest who was a woman who was willing to do our marriage, she herself, her daughter, was gay. And as a guru, she was trying when she her daughter came out to her, she was trying to come to terms with it herself. And she had this story where she went back to her guru in India. And she was saying, like, “My daughter is gay, and I don't know what to do with this, and I don't know if I should perform wedding,” and he was he was just like, “do they love each other” And she was like, “yes.” And he was like, “so what's the problem?” And I was like, “that's it!” This is the type of person we want to perform our wedding. Somebody who understands that it's just it's just about love. That's really what it is. And, she was so lovely. She stepped us through, like, the different because Indian weddings are pretty notoriously long. But this one, she cut down to about an hour, and she went through the different phases and, you know, you have to perform a ritual here and then you have to walk around the fire and then you have to step on things. So she really helped us through a lot of that stuff. And I think it also helped my mom to come to terms with the fact that now I'm properly married. You know? Like, she was there for it. It was through our culture. All the way that we do it And so, you know, really I'm married now. And I think that that was really helpful for her to see. But, yeah, so it was it was a whole process and the priestess was really lovely. And the ceremony turned out really, really nice sleep. I had a bunch of my friends, from Madison and the Chicagoland area up there. So you know, they loved it as well because it had some of some of them it was their first experience at an Indian wedding, let alone a gay Indian wedding. So I was like, yes. I'm happy to be that that experience for you. So, yeah, that that was That was pretty much it. It was very stressful, but retro in retrospect, I think it was it was a really good time. And I think mostly when you talk about weddings, sometimes it's not necessarily for the couple. It's for, like, your family and friends. So if they had a good time, then I had a good time. So, yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: So this might be the stupidest question you've ever been asked, but what made your winning stressful? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Oh, yeah. That's a really good question. I remember, like, Rose and I, we were so stressed the morning of the wedding. We were, like, crying the morning of the wedding. And I don't even remember what about, honestly. I think the stress came, with probably finances and then just the amount people that were going to be there and the fact that we had to do these kind of ritualistic things in front of people that we don't know that well, some of them, I think that was quite stressful. And, just a little logistics I guess. Like, you know, will people be able to find the location? Alright? Will people be able to make it to the venue on time? That just little things like that. You know, you plan for a lot of it. And then the day of your wedding, you can't really do anything about it. So you just are just hoping that all the pieces kind of click and get together. And, you know, just making sure that, like, oh, you know, it's the gonna be here on time. I think just the little logistics of it because you're as somebody who's in the wedding, you're not paying attention to what's happening. Cause you really can't. I remember we started getting ready at, like, 10 AM and didn't stop until, like, 3 PM. So we were really just like, we had so much makeup on, so much jewelry. We had to get our saris on. I remember the morning of we realized that we left our evening gowns in Chicago, so we had to have somebody come to, like, my mom's house and, like, go through the rooms to try to find the evening gowns and bring it back up to Milwaukee. So that was that was really stressful to just, the little things. I but I think, yeah, I think that's probably what it was. Just I don't I don't see myself as a very controlling person, but at the end of the day, I'm just like, you know, If it's not going well, we don't we don't know. And I think the uncertainty of it a little bit as well was, just stressful. Yeah. Making sure everybody's having a good time and, you know, just yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: So you've talked a little bit about your mom's role in this process. What was that, the journey? Like, for you to together as mother and daughter Yeah. For that year of planning. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. It was that was that was also very stressful, I think. Because, my mom has a really good understanding of what needs to happen for, like, the Hindu aspects of the wedding. But as well as the fact that, like, there are so many little things. Right? Like, you have to get the right coconut you to get the right leaves and stuff like that. So I think just the little ticky tacky ritualistic parts of it, were really hard to coordinate, I guess, me being in Madison or us being in Madison and her being here. And I, I'm gonna be honest. I'm not super responsive over the phone or text as you probably know, but there's I'm not great at that. So when I, when I was interacting with her, like, she'd call me pretty much every day or multiple times a day to get my input on something and you know, I'm working. I'm doing other things. So maybe the communication probably wasn't there. But I think that was probably the very stressful on our relationship was making sure that she knew what was happening from my perspective and making sure I knew what was happening from her perspective. Right? So I was the one mostly coordinating with, like, the venues and the vendors, trying to get the finances sorted, making sure people who, have the design of our evening, like our evening reception and our morning, wedding, making sure that they have what they need. So I think just coordinating a little bit was a little bit stressful. And understanding that we were on the same page was a little bit stressful as well because my mom likes to overcommunicate, and I maybe don't once again, don't communicate as much as I should. So, I think that just made it made it hard on our relationship a little bit. It's much better now, though, after the wedding. So it's great now. But, yeah, I think that was probably the hardest part. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: And, Rose's family coming from the UK, you know, observing that, what do you think that was like for them? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. I like to think that they had a good time and they really enjoyed it. Rosa's mom, dad, and brother came. She has So she has a younger brother, her, and then her older brothers, her older brother came. And she had a few friends from the UK come as well too. So, probably like three or four friends. And, oh, like, five friends actually. Yeah. So they, they came as well. And, yeah, it was such a good time. Honestly, we had such time, we, they had never been to Chicago. So we kind of started in Chicago, Downtown Chicago. We, like, stayed there for, a few days, downtown. And so we went to different museums. I told them to take an architecture tours, and they did that. They're really, they really enjoyed that aspect. And then, so Indian weddings, there's like, three days where there are technically activities. So for us, we had, like, our guy, which is, where it's like a ceremony where they do a little puja to cleanse you before your marriage and then literally rub turmeric on you to cleanse you. So that is the we had that on, I guess, Thursday of our wedding week. And then Friday, we went up to Milwaukee and, I think that was fun for, Rosa's family and friends as well because they had never been to Milwaukee. So they enjoyed and then on Saturday was the actual wedding. And so all of all of our, like, we had brides people All of them had, Indian clothing. So they would either work with us or saris. And I think I like to think that they really enjoyed it. They were getting a little bit of a pampering where they were trying to put saris on them or put their groupas on. And I think just being part of part of our wedding in, like, a and our wedding being in a Hindu wedding, I think they really enjoyed. They're I think it was really So after our wedding to Rosa's parents stayed, in Madison with us for a bit, and that was really great as well because then they got to see, oh, this is where Rose lives. You know, the, you know, we can walk to shops and, like, walk to a bar if we want to. It's a nice little area. So I think, her parents really enjoyed seeing where she is now and what she's up to. So, yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: And a question for any married couple what's your relationship like with your inbox? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Oh, I love them. They're really lovely. Yeah. So Rosa's mom I think when I first met Rose's mom was, when was it? 2020, perhaps? I went to the U.K. for Christmas. And that's when I first met her mom. And my first impression of her was like, oh, she's a real hard woman. Like, she, like, she's not gonna like me or, you know, like, she she's very she's pretty stoic. But as I got to know her, I realized she's, she's pretty silly, actually. She's, you know, and she doesn't take herself too seriously. And I think we started to grow, like, a quite nice relation with each other. And her father is really lovely as well too. So he's also a writer. And an artist, a craftsman, and such. So, when he and my mom met, they were just like, wow. We have friends. So, that that I think that was a lot of fun for them as well. But, yeah, my relationship with them is really great. Yeah. Let's see. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: You mentioned, in your description of all this, your dad as a as a light. Could you talk about that a little bit, please? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. So his name is Jyoti Prakash, which I think literally just means like, light. So, or flame, or light of flame or something like that. So, yeah, he so he passed away in 2022, I guess, actually, not 2021. So August of 2022. And we had we had actually started planning our wedding at that in that time. But Yeah. So he passed and then we're like, like, do we even do this wedding? Like, what do we do with what do we do? Honestly. And I think we decided to go forward with the wedding because it's something that my dad actually really wanted. I remember he met Rose, May of that year. And he was he was so excited, actually. He had—I, I didn't realize how excited he would have been. But he really liked her, and he, I think Rose is really happy to have met him. And, yeah, he obviously so he was he's probably, like, I think he's pretty much the sole earner for our family. So he put, like, he put so much thought into finances and making sure that our family was set up in a in a nice way. And honestly, a lot of our wedding would not have been able to happen without that. So I think from the provider aspect, I never needed anything. Or I was never in need for anything. And for things that I wanted, I may or may not have gotten it depending on how it asked, I guess. But for the most part, like, even if I wanted something, I was always provided it. So in in that sense, he, like, even now for some of the some of the things that are, like, around us, he provided for us. So it's really, yeah, in the sense that he he's a light is that you can you can kinda see him everywhere. Right? And I even now, like, when I talked, like, when I think about like, getting a promotion or, you know, I kinda talk to him sometimes. I'm like, “Oh, you would really like this. You would really like to see where I am now,” stuff like that. I know, so we recently, like I said, are in the process of buying a house. So we're gonna close soon on it. And I think my dad would really like that. Right? He would have really enjoyed seeing where we are, and I think he would have really enjoyed it. But, Yeah. He had been sick for a while though too, like I mentioned, like, from 2010 onwards. So it I think it was a really big struggle for him, but seeing him make his way through a lot of a lot of the illness was really interesting because, like, you know, you'd see him in the hospital bed, but he'd still be positive. Like, like, you have what You have so many things inside your arms that you're still, like, smiling. I don't I don't understand this. So I don't know. It's just, it's quite aspiration I guess, in some ways because, you know, I hope to be able to provide for my family in the same type of way. And on top of that, you know, understanding that life is life is gonna do what it does. You have only control over so much, really. And then the rest of it is, like, you either have a bad attitude or a positive attitude. That'll kind of shape how you how you see and how you interact with folks. So I think he taught me a lot of that through a lot of seeing his struggles. But after he passed too, it was probably at that point, you know, it it's slightly relieving too because you don't want to see somebody struggle so much, especially somebody you love. So in some sense, it was relieving because, you know, at least he he's at rest now. And he's not struggling anymore. So I think I think that is, kind of the light, I guess, aspect of it. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Fabulous. Thank you. Why was it important for you to have a Hindu wedding? You'd been married in the UK? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: I think, it was so that my family friends here, because I had grown up in, like, in a Hindu, family, like 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: a 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Hindu religiously Hindu family, I guess. I wanna say that, like, for me specifically, I don't think it was the biggest deal because like you said, I was already married. But I think for the people around me, it was a big deal. So, like, my family, my mom, my brother, and my family friends. And for the community, I felt like, okay, if we do this, then perhaps it will just show the community once again that you can be happy this way, and it's okay. So I thought and for the younger people in the community to see that, there are there are other people in the community that perhaps you could even reach out to if you're uncomfortable. So I just may maybe perhaps wanted to show folks that, that it's okay. Yeah. I at first, I was I was very upset at the idea of having another wedding, honestly, because I was just like my brain immediately goes to finances and just how much money it would cost. And can we afford this? And, you know, how much is this gonna put us back from buying a house. You know? So as some of these things were in my mind as well, but I think that the importance for our family and friends I think kinda surpassed that because I realized at some point, I realized and probably reconciled who knows that I what I was doing, I was not necessarily doing for myself. I was doing for the people around me. And Rose and I both felt that way. And Rose really did want to do it because she wanted to feel like she was properly I guess, part of our family as well. And that means taking on some aspects of this culture, that she had been just like an outsider looking in, but now she's part of the family. So I think that was also, very helpful for her to feel just part of the family. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Yeah. Fabulous. You mentioned, being fearful of bias while you were, or homophobia while you were making your wedding plans, Have you have you experienced as a couple or as an individual homophobia? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah. I'm gonna say no. Honestly, I have not outwardly experienced that even in my workplace. I think I've been really lucky, honestly. I think there are definitely people out there that struggle with that, and have been impact acted by bias or homophobia. And I, once again, I like to think that I haven't. Who knows if I have, but it hasn't impacted my life so much that, it's, like, totally thrown off the church 3 or something like that. So I'm very, very lucky. You know, that that's not no saying that, like, maybe in the future, it will come up. But so far in my life, it hasn't been an issue. Yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Alright. Fabulous. And you mentioned your workplace. And could you talk about, now shifting gears 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: another time? 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: You mentioned working for a nonprofit. Could you talk about that work and what you do. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Sure. Yeah. So the nonprofit I work for is education analytics. So I'd kinda mentioned before that I was very interested in education policy. So after college, my primary goal was to travel. And to do that, you need money. So I was like, I was like, what are the ways that I can make money the fastest? Because I want to start traveling as soon as possible. And I had a friend from high school, actually, who I've had been talking to catch up. And he was like, oh, I work for an IT consulting company, and they're looking to hire. “So would you like to would you like to interview?” And I said, “yeah.” Because, so all the research, so I wanted to go into research. I thought about it for, Alzheimer's and stuff like that. But the pay was, like, really bad. So I was like, there's no way I'm gonna be saving anything if I work here. And the IT one was paying maybe, like, two, two and a half times as much. So I was like, okay. I know IT is the thing. I know that it's a feasible career path. So maybe I will pick up some skills here. And, you know, in the future, who knows what's gonna happen, but my intention is to travel. So to do this, I'm gonna do this IT thing, make as much as I can, and then go travel. Through that experience, I had learned I started to learn about data. I started to learn about how data is used. I started to learn about how powerful data is because basically, everything we interact with is data informed, right, your apps, computer stuff, you know, even like how tall this bottle is. Is, like, probably somebody in marketing figured out through data that is tall skinny bottle is appealing. So, like, lots of lots of little things like that. So I learned a lot at the IT company. And the people that I worked with were really lovely as well, and they taught me a lot. Not having a background in computer science or any or information sciences or anything like that, I was able to learn quite a bit. So I took that skill set and I was like, okay. This is something that I could probably use in the future. My next step is to travel. So perhaps, you know, after I travel, at least I have the skill set, right, that's gonna be pretty, pretty strong throughout the years. So I started traveling. And then when I came back to the US, I had this thought in my mind. I was like, “Okay. So I want to use the skill set that I've developed for IT stuff, but I want to apply it to something that's not just making helping people make more money. I wanna do something that's a little bit more fulfilling.” So I think I literally typed in education analytics in LinkedIn and, like, the first thing that popped up was this nonprofit. So I was like, “oh, this works. This works well.” So I interviewed at Education Analytics, and I was hired first as a database developer. And I and I so I moved back to Madison, after I got hired as well. And I have been there kind of ever since. I started off as a database developer on, like, the data engineering team. So, what our organization does is it works with, like, education agencies, like districts or states, or collaboratives. We take the data that is produced from their information systems. And build, analytic products off of them. So things like dashboards, to see, like, “Oh, how many students are chronically absent at your school strict.” So dashboards and other performance metrics, and we share that back with the districts or states. So that that's like what our organization does. And then me, more specifically, I started off with a data engineering team, but then I moved to the team that I'm on now, which is called cloud engineering. And we do, hosting services for various products. So we host things in the cloud, essentially, and we help districts, states, with their hosting solutions. So that's the team that I'm on now, and that's kind of where I am now. I've moved to a manager position on that team. So it's just gonna keep growing, I guess. So, yeah. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Alright. Fabulous. Well, we've been talking for a while now. Kind of as we wrap up, is there anything that you'd like to talk about that I haven't asked you about? Anything you were burning to 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Oh, yeah. That's a really good question. I don't think so. I think I was just kind of seeing, like, where things would go. Think the biggest thing that I've learned in my life is that so far, is that there are many different ways to live. And you can be happy. It doesn't matter. There are so many different ways to live. And if you think the way that you're living is outside of the norm. And for some reason, you're thinking you're gonna be unhappy because of that. It's not true. You can, you can, you can, for the most part, pave your own path. And, I will say that I have also been dealt a pretty good hand in life, so that has helped me quite a bit. I know for others that it's not such. So, for the most part, you could pave your own path. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [PA]: Yeah. Fabulous. Thank you very much for talking about your life, and for your story being documented by the National Indo American Museum. 00:00:00.000 --> 01:43:32.000 [EM]: Yeah.