WEBVTT 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:29.200 [JOEL GONZALEZ]: Okay. This interview is with Nagamani Beligere as part of the Indo-American Heritage Museum Masala Chat Oral History Project. This interview is being conducted on February 16th at 3:40p at the residence of Nagamani Beligere. And I'll start off with the first question. 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:35.050 [JG]: Can you please state and say your first name, please? 00:00:35.400 --> 00:00:42.600 [NAGAMANI BELIGERE]: Nagamini. N a g a m a n i. 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:44.000 [JG]: Mhmm. Nagami 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.400 [NB]: M a n i. 00:00:45.800 --> 00:00:46.500 [JG]: M e-- 00:00:46.800 --> 00:01:08.900 [NB]: M a--a like apple--n i. Nagamani. Yeah. The married name is Dharmapuri. D h a r a m a p---but I, but my professional name is still my maiden name. I still carry Beligere. B e, B like boy, 00:01:08.900 --> 00:01:09.500 [JG]: Oh, B 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:11.000 [NB]: E 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:12.200 [JG]: E **laughs** 00:01:12.700 --> 00:01:17.900 [NB]: L i g e r e. 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:19.500 [NB and JG]: E 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:24.600 [JG]: Okay. So, you would pronounce it Anagamini? 00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:27.100 [NB]: Nagamani, yeah. Beligere, yeah. 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.300 [JG]: Beligere, okay. When and where were you born? 00:01:31.100 --> 00:02:00.700 [NB]: I was born in India, in small town called Tumkur. In Karnataka state. In 1935. And I was raised in that town until I was 18 years of age. So, I, I was born as a second, actually, third child from my parents. 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:29.000 But the second child, while they were raising, because one of the child passed away. So, I lived in that town until I was 18 years of age, until I finished my undergraduate college. Then I joined medical college in Bangalore, that's another big town. It’s a very well
known, now, as a--what do you call, a-- 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:39.300 [VIDYASAGAR DHARMAPURI]: Silicon Valley of India. 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:32.100 [NB]: Yeah, yeah. 00:02:32.100 --> 00:02:32.800 [VD]: IT. 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:44.400 [NB]: IT place. So it was one of the cosmopolitan cities. We were raised both in Tumkur as well as Bangalore’ it was not a village in any means. 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:51.200 [JG]: Okay. What languages do you speak growing up? 00:02:51.400 --> 00:03:02.900 [NB]: We speak, at home Kannada. Kannada is a language of that state. 
Each state has a different language in India, so-- 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.100 [JG]: It’s a native languages? 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:04.400 [NB]: Yeah. 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:05.300 [JG]: To the states? 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:21.300 [NB]: Yeah. It has a script as well as a, you know, a writing and all those things, so. So it is a--it’s a well-known, recognized... language. 00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:22.300 [JG]: Was that the only one? 00:03:23.600 --> 00:03:36.500 [NB]: Yeah that’s the only language in that state, that state. Now, there are lot of other people who have migrated to that city just 
like people migrating to America. Lot of Indians are migrating into that city. 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:38.200 [VD]: He’s asking what language you know. 00:03:37.200 --> 00:03:40.500 [NB]: Because it’s a very well developed city, so 00:03:40.700 --> 00:03:52.600 [JG]: Okay. Let’s see. How would you describe your experiences while growing up in Tukum? 00:03:53.700 --> 00:04:24.300 [NB]: In Tumkur. Tumkur was not a very small town. It was a fairly--it’s a district town. My father was an attorney. He was in a very good position. I was raised in an upper middle-class family, I should say. Because, although we were seven children, but we had lot of education at home. Music. Dance. 00:04:24.400 --> 00:04:26.900 [VD]: Yeah, Tumkur, and Hyderabad and Bangalore. 00:04:28.700 --> 00:04:40.400 [NB]: Lot of music, we were taught music, not only going to school. And we were taught dance, and all the cultural activities. They were, my parents were very much interested in that, so. 00:04:40.400 --> 00:04:42.000 [JG]: And this was very early on? 00:04:42.200 --> 00:04:45.800 [NB]: Very early on. I was hardly three year old when they started teaching me music. 
 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:47.100 [JG]: **laughs** Wow. Great. 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:54.900 [NB]: So that’s, that was our parents’ interest. They wanted all the children to learn some music. That’s, that’s-- 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:59.300 [JG]: Did your family practice a certain religion? 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:28.700 [NB]: We are Hindus. Hindus. So that’s the religion we practiced in that home. And each Hindu families have a different deities they pray. That’s a different denominations, like in, like in Christianity. It’s a different denomination. Like we are Shivites, and so we worshipped Shiva at home. That’s the kind of thing. 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:59.700 Other than that, you know, they were also religious in the sense my father was involved in lot of temples, temple activities. And he was a great devotee of Shiva. And every festival we--religious festival we conducted at home. And he invited people and gave them gifts and things, those are kind of things at home they were doing, when we were children. 00:05:01.100 --> 00:06:03.200 [JG]: You said your father was an attorney. 00:06:03.400 --> 00:06:03.900 [NB]: Yes. 00:06:03.900 --> 00:06:14.500 [JG]: Um, do you remember him, to his experiences and stuff like that, being an attorney? Did he like it? Was--
 00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:42.100 [NB]: Oh yeah, he was **laughs**. He liked it very much in the sense, he was one of the top notch attorneys. And he was a, during that time, 
he was a, you know in the writ petition was a big thing in--Like if somebody, just like you are talking about immigration, if somebody didn’t get an immigration, he would go and represent them in the court. And get them the whatever they needed. Something like that. 00:06:42.100 --> 00:07:13.600 You know, he was a very well known lawyer at that time. And, he had a lot of demands everywhere. So, from Tumkur he used to travel to Bangalore because there was lot of people who wanted him to come to
Bangalore. So this was a very, lot of activity on his part. And he also became a notary public. Notaries are not, like anybody can become a notary-- 00:07:13.700 --> 00:07:14.200 [JG]: Right, now. 00:07:14.200 --> 00:07:42.600 [NB]: --in India. At that time, they were given a chance to become a notary. And he was also on the Peace Council. And he was selected from India to represent Peace Commission to go to Russia in 1955. And he was there two months, in Russia. And when I graduated, he came back and he told me that lot of Russian doctors are all women. 00:07:43.300 --> 00:08:14.100 And I had applied for medical school and he was very happy that I got into medical school. So that was the beginning of my medical career. So, he was very progressive, and he wrote a book on his return, that what he saw in Russia. He explained what was going on in Russia. Not only Russia, he was in--what do you call that... 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:29.700 A small Russian country. What was it? That--what’s his name--I keep forgetting. Near Poland. Anyway. 00:08:29.900 --> 00:08:32.500 [VD]:Near Poland? Lithuania? Estonia? 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:35.500 [NB]: No not Lithuania. Um... 00:08:35.900 --> 00:08:37.000 [VD]:Czechoslovakia? 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:39.200 [JG]: Romania? 00:08:39.700 --> 00:08:58.350 [NB]: No. This guy, what’s his name, Polish guy came from that part of the world. Anyway, I will talk about it later. Anyway, he talked about that country. How their country works. So he was very much--he was a very educated man and-- 00:08:58.350 --> 00:08:59.000 [VD]:Not Warsaw? 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:12.400 [NB]: --was very learned. When he was in political field also. He was contesting for the Parliament member. You know he was in a very higher position. 00:09:12.400 --> 00:09:14.300 [JG]: Mhmm. Status position. 00:09:14.300 --> 00:09:34.600 [NB]: He was a colleague of some of the governors and the judges of the state and his, one of his best colleague was, became a Supreme Court Justice. But he was very, very busy man also with all the activities he was running. 00:09:38.300 --> 00:09:40.400 [JG]: What about your mother? 00:09:40.500 --> 00:10:12.400 [NB]: My mother was not a very educated woman, but she went to, maybe primary school. She was married when she was about 14 year old. And afterwards my father educated her in the sense he employed teachers at home, so she can learn English. And then she learned Hindi, as a language of India after the Independence. And she was she was a good musician. And she was very wise woman enough, all the things I should say. 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:43.900 She had a lot of common sense, and how to do things. And she
wanted all of us to, all the seven children to be educated. Not necessarily just the boys; all the girls too. So we all went through, actually she used to tell us, “You all have a double degree.” In a sense that we all went to basic science course and arts college. And then you got a post-graduate education, like I did my medicine. 00:10:44.500 --> 00:11:01.100 I was the first doctor in my house. In my, in my family, actually, my father's family. Even in my mother's family. So that was a big achievement for her to educate every child. 00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:05.700 [JG]: You did say that you had siblings, correct? 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:07.300 [NB]: Yes. 00:11:07.300 --> 00:11:10.800 [JG]: How many siblings did you have and what were their names? 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.800 [NB]: **laughs** I can give you the names-- 00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:16.500 [JG]: Yeah, that’s ok. Just, you know, you don’t have to spell them out or anything like that-- 00:11:16.100 --> 00:11:45.200 [NB]: Okay. My oldest sister her name is Mangala. And she is now 85 year old, 84 year old. And, she was a school teacher in India. And her husband is an engineer, superintendent engineer of Russian industry 
in India. And they're all retired now. And they live in America with their children, now, right now. 00:11:46.000 --> 00:12:13.700 And my--I’m the second one in a sense, because there was one sibling who did not survive. So I’m the second oldest. And my brother who is next to me, his name is Krupanidi, and he’s in New York. He’s a, he’s a engineer, but he also is a tennis coach in New York City. 00:12:14.900 --> 00:12:44.700 In, I don't know his court is in, in Brooklyn or Long Island, one of those places. And my third sister is a, she was an attorney in India. And now she lives in Germany with her daughter. And my fourth, fifth siblig is my brother who was a-- 00:12:44.800 --> 00:13:14.300 His name is Manjunath. And he was a, he's a PhD from Oxford. And he became a CEO of the Southeast Asia, whole Southeast Asia. Now he retired, now he’s running a school for poor children, in India, in Bombay. Then comes my another sister who is in, her name is Muhmatta. 00:13:14.800 --> 00:13:43.300 She’s in New York, she’s a pediatrician. She works there and she’s
in New York. And my youngest brother is a, he's also an attorney. But, he didn’t practice for a long time. And he became a, what 
do you call-- He’s an estate planner and estate holder. He takes care of our land in the village. 00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:53.200 And he's also a tennis champion of India. And he runs a tennis school in India. So we are seven of us. 00:13:53.300 --> 00:13:54.900 [JG]: Wow. Big family. 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:56.800 [NB]: Big family. His name is Priyerdarshi. 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:02.200 [JG]: When did you come to the United States as an immigrant? 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:14.700 [NB]: I came here August 17th 1963. I landed in Seattle, Tacoma airport. 00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:16.500 [JG]: Okay. And that is in? 00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:17.800 [NB]: Washington State. 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.900 [JG]: Washington State. All the way in the west coast. 00:14:19.300 --> 00:14:34.900 [NB]: All the way, yes. I had to fly on the west side. So I came through Japan. And our fist landing was in Japan, and then Alaska, and then Seattle. 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:42.600 [JG]: Um. You said that you had received your medical training-- 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:43.600 [NB]: In India. 00:14:43.700 --> 00:14:46.400 [JG]: You started your medical training. Can you describe that experience? 00:14:46.600 --> 00:15:14.900 [NB]: Medical training? I was very young when I joined medical school. As you will see, we are all teenagers when we go to medical school. **laughs** By the time we graduate, we’ll get little maturity. But, at the same time, I lost my father right after my graduation from my medical school. I graduated in 1962, May. 00:15:15.800 --> 00:15:43.300 And my father had a heart attack and he died in October 1962. At that time, there were no jobs for doctors, in India. We were interns working for no money. And we had to go and strike, to get some money. So they--then they started paying hundred rupees. That is like a peanuts, now. 00:15:42.750 --> 00:15:44.100 [JG]: Yeah **laughs** 00:15:44.500 --> 00:16:14.700 [NB]: So, that’s what they started giving. Then I decided--all my friends, my colleagues in my medical school started going out of the country, and is doing internship in the medical school. One of my colleague told me, “You know there are a lot of openings in America. We are all going there. If you want to apply, you can apply.” So he gave me the address and some other papers. 00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:44.700 So I applied and--at that time we also had to take an exam, to come to this country. Like a entrance exam to medical profession. So I took the exam, and I passed the exam. And then applied, and I got a job at the Saint Joseph’s Hospital in Tacoma, Washington. Tacoma, Washington is a, it’s an army center actually. 00:16:45.700 --> 00:17:13.500 That Saint Joseph’s Hospital was a community hospital, actually. It was run by nuns. So I joined hospital. At that time, because I was coming alone, and also, I did not have, I did not know anybody, I wrote to them. Because I’m a girl, I'm coming alone. I need somebody to come and receive me, at the airport. Otherwise I won’t know where to go. **JG laughs** 00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:45.700 [NB]: So, the sisters of the hospital were very kind enough to come and receive me at the airport. And it just only 30 miles from airport, Tacoma Hospital. They took me there and put me in a-- They used to give us a free housing. Next to the hospital, there are some homes they had, residences they had occupied out, or whatever. So they gave me the, one of the residence-- 00:17:45.800 --> 00:18:12.500 Actually it is two-story building; I had to stay upstairs because it was other family living downstairs. So we lived there. As a vegetarian, I didn't know what to do. **JG laughs** So they would bring me loaf of bread and milk every evening from the hospital. So after a week or so, I found a small shop around the corner of the, you know, on the block. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:19.200 I went there and found some rice and some vegetables. I was so happy that day. I brought it home and cooked! 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:20.000 [JG]: And cooked it? 00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:47.100 [NB]: Yes. So, that was our experience, and it was very pleasant. Although I didn’t know many of the-- You know, I did not know the customs of America, but I knew the British customs. Because, when I grew up in Tumkur, that was a town that--because I was born before the Independence time, there was lot of Britishers, living in that town. 00:18:47.800 --> 00:19:18.400 One of the family was right next to our home. And their children used to play with us. So we knew what English was. And I also, as a medium of instruction, I took when I started, my parents wanted us to learn English. So we joined the medium of instruction as English in the school. So it was not anything different when I came here. 00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:21.700 And also, when I came to Bangalore, it was a cosmopolitan town. 00:19:21.800 --> 00:19:24.300 [JG]: Okay. It was a city, urban-- 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:57.200 [NB]: Urban city. So we had seen every kind of thing. We used to watch English movies. So that was--I did not feel I was out of water. But at the same time, there were lot of people in Tacoma, Washington. I don't know if my husband showed you the picture. One of the thing was, we were introduced early by our colleagues--like our own professors who were living with us, who were taking care of us. 00:19:57.600 --> 00:20:15.500 This is one of the family (showing a photograph to JG). This is my orthopedic surgeon and his wife, they used to invite us to their house, for lunch and breakfast and sometimes take us out to--she took me, one time, to concert. Opera concert. Which I had no idea what opera was. 00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:45.800 Because she knew I could sing, she decided I should see the American concert. And there were lot of American family. These were the families who I got introduced to. You know, when we were doing internship and residency. I used to wear a sari at that time. So they would come and take pictures of me, and invite me to lot of, you know, women's club, to come and participate there. 00:20:46.700 --> 00:21:06.900 And that was a very nice experience, actually, I should say. Because, I was able to understand what this--there is not much of a difference between what our culture and this culture was, except the language. That’s how I felt, at that time. And, so they used to take us-- This is a Mount Rainier picture. 00:21:07.100 --> 00:21:07.700 [JG]: Oh wow. 00:21:08.600 --> 00:21:17.700 [NB]: I'm wearing a sari. This is a lady who took us to the Mount Rainier picture. So these are some of the early experiences I had, yeah. 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:19.300 [JG]: Did you like the opera? 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:39.700 [NB]: Opera was, you know, very first opera I never, I had no idea what opera was. So I was almost like a, “This is totally different than my Karna--” I was a Karnakat music, I knew my music very well. And it was very difficult for me to understand opera music. 00:21:39.700 --> 00:21:40.200 [JG]: The opera? 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:46.900 [NB]: Yeah, yes. So, you know, it takes time for us to get used to this cultural aspect 00:21:46.900 --> 00:21:49.800 [JG]: Yes. Different parts of music have different-- 00:21:49.600 --> 00:22:06.400 [NB]: Because although we grew up with all these Britishers, they did not have any of those cultural activity, in India. Because they were so--maybe they had, but we, they would not, we were not in the part of their entertainment, as I said. 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:14.500 [JG]: Well, was there anything else besides the medical school, medical training that brought you to United States? 00:22:15.600 --> 00:22:21.300 [NB]: No, one of the thing which happened was, I would not have come to this country if my father was alive. 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:22.300 [JG]: Really? 00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:31.600 [NB]: Yeah. Because at that time, 50 years ago, the girls wouldn’t go out of the country like, out of home without getting married. That was the culture. 00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:34.800 [JG]: A cultural like, like taboo? **laughs** 00:22:33.300 --> 00:23:02.500 [NB]: Yes, that's a Indian-- Even to this day, lot of good families, they don’t send their daughters out by themselves. They have to get married and go. That was the cultural habit. When I left, although I was a physician, but there was no other choice for me except to find a job. Because, as it is in India they were, as I said, they were giving only hundred rupees, as an intern. 00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:33.900 So I could not have survived with the family. And my father passed away, my mother was very young, she was only 45 year old. I had five younger brothers and sisters below me. And they were all--two of them were in college, and my youngest brother was only 8 year old. So, and my sister was 14 year old. It was difficult for my mother to take care of all this. 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:43.800 So, that was my own decision. Nobody else asked me to leave, but I decided that I need to go out and help the family. 00:23:44.600 --> 00:23:50.900 [VD]:[inaudible] she’s one of the first few women doctors who came to this country. 00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:51.300 [NB]: Yeah. 00:23:51.800 --> 00:23:53.800 [VD]:Hardly any were coming alone. 00:23:55.400 --> 00:24:19.800 [NB]: There was a--that’s why I said, you know, the women, women’s club in Seattle, they would come and pick me up and say, give a big, you know, their club entertainment and I was the speaker and all that. When I was in the emergency room, they would come and take my pictures, how I work in the hospital and things if that sort. So it was totally a different experience. 00:24:20.300 --> 00:24:50.200 Um. When I came, I came with the idea that I will work for two, three years. And then I’ll go back home. That was my intention. And when I started working, I realized that I had to do more than just two or three years of my, you know, training. Because that would give me enough of experience or the money to go home. 00:24:50.900 --> 00:25:15.100 Again, when I applied for a medical profession, I did not have any money to come from India. Because, although I came from upper middle-class family, we did not have $900 to pay for the ticket. You know, at that time also, it was $900. 00:25:15.300 --> 00:25:15.500 [JG]: Wow. 00:25:15.600 --> 00:25:45.900 [NB]: Yeah, one way ticket. So, that was quite expensive for me. So, I wrote to them, I cannot afford to come. But if you buy the ticket, I'll come and repay the whole thing. So that was one other thing bought the ticket for me then I worked for a year for them. I was getting $110 a month. $2,400 a year! That's all I was getting. But still it was much more than what I would have gotten in India. 00:25:47.400 --> 00:26:17.700 So, I said, “Okay, fine.” I took it and then I tried to support the family, half the money, I would send home every month, so they can survive. And then I would take care of my needs in another $50 or whatever, that time. That was quite a bit of money, you know. Even $50 a month for myself with a free house and very little food, 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:46.700 We were--even if you go and pay $10, I would have gotten lot of grocery, at that time. So that was very easy to live here. Then I decided I had to do--that was a community hospital. I wanted to go to some university teaching hospital. Then I went to Canada, British Columbia. Because it was next door, and it was easier. 00:26:46.700 --> 00:27:14.300 And they were applying for--they were announcing for residency training program. So, I took the job there, I stayed there for a year. And, that's the time I bought the car when I was in there. I paid the total amount and the dealer tells me, “Nobody pays the whole amount at one time. Everybody buys with the credit card.” I said, “I don’t have a credit card.” 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:42.900 So he was surprised that I am paying the total amount, to the car. But, anyway, then afterwards from the University of British Columbia, I came back to Boston. Harvard, Boston Children’s Hospital. I stayed there for two more years, doing my residency. Then I went to Philadelphia Children's. That’s where I met my husband. 00:27:43.900 --> 00:28:12.000 We got married in Philadelphia Children’s. All my training was at a university hospitals all through. All these years there was no graduate medical education in this country, when we came to this country. Graduate medical education started in 1970. Because in 1965, when they had a Social Security Act-- 00:28:12.500 --> 00:28:13.300 [VD]:Standardized. 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:44.500 [NB]: Then, they also realized they had to start some hospital, new hospitals that had to create. In order to create the new hospitals, they had to train the doctors. That is when the graduate medical education started there. The federal government started funding
the graduate medical education. Even to this day, that's what is going on. So, even in 1969, I did not get any money. 00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:59.500 Except the hospital was giving me $4,000 a year for the cardiology training. But it was one of the best training in the country. So, nobody would have gotten that training, if I didn’t--many, somebody would have gone-- 00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:00.500 [VD]:She worked with a pioneer. 00:29:00.800 --> 00:29:33.000 [NB]: One of the cardiologist was a pioneer of Pediatric Cardiology, who trained me at Philadelphia Children’s Hospital. His name is William Raskin, he’s a very well known cardiologist, at that time. And so, it was a very good experience for me. And then we went to Winnipeg after my husband got the, you know, what do you call, he had to leave the country because his visa was expiring. 00:29:34.100 --> 00:29:58.900 And then we went to Winnipeg. Winnipeg is also a university hospital, Winnipeg Children’s Hospital. And then I worked there for a year and a half, almost two years. At that time, our first daughter was born, in Winnipeg. Then we decided to come back to United States. Immigrate to the United States-- Before that, we went to India for two months, looking for a job. 00:29:59.100 --> 00:30:00.800 [JG]: Looking for a job, back in India? 00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:31.500 [NB]: Back in India, in 1970. ’70, ’71 I think, May, June, July we were in India, going to different universities, looking for a job. But, they all said they don’t have a job for us because we were too highly qualified. And also that was the time there was a recession in India. ’71, ’72 there was a recession in India. 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:55.700 So at that time, we had decided, we had applied to come to United States, anyway. So we decided we’ll come back. Come back here. And that decision was a good decision. I think we came back, and that is the first--we came back to Chicago. We never left! We stayed here. Because Chicago has been good to us. 00:30:57.800 --> 00:31:27.000 In a way, there was lot of opportunities, for my husband to grow. And I took a job in University of Illinois, at that time, for $19,000. Although, I had a MD degree, five years of post-graduate education, they were offering only $19,000, for me. But I took it, that was essential for us to stay here. 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:50.600 Then we had two more children, here in Chicago. So, then we continued working. In 1980, I decided to go into private practice, because my children were growing big, and they needed to go to school. And I did not want to leave them here and go to-- 00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:51.200 [JG]: Go to work. 00:31:51.250 --> 00:32:20.000 [NB]: 15 miles from here, to work. So, I practiced here in Elmhurst, for about 17 years. Until my son graduated from high-school. Then, I went back to University of Illinois as a professor, you know I worked another 15 years there, and retired in 2005, 2009 I guess. 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:28.900 [JG]: If we can go back, a little bit, going back to your arrival-- 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:29.600 [NB]: Yes. 00:32:31.700 --> 00:32:43.600 [JG]: Were there any expectations, I guess, as far as, like, what you thought the United States was going to be like? Or, you know, any images? Or, you know, anything like that? 00:32:44.200 --> 00:33:12.100 [NB]: I really don't remember anything I was expecting here. Well we had seen some movies, you know, that's what I remember. That’s what I would have expected. But at the same time, the people in Tacoma, they made me feel at home, in the sense, even the patients. 00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:42.500 They would come and say, like if I had a weekend off, they would say, “Okay, come on over, we are having a barbecue in our house. We will take you there.” So, they would take me there to barbecue, and bring me back to my home, you know, my residence quarters. So, that was a very good experience, in a way. And also, couple of my colleagues also were there, my college mates, but also in the same hospital. 00:33:42.900 --> 00:34:12.800 So there was--I did not miss too much, in the sense. Except, of course, I missed my family. But, other than that, I really didn’t think I missed a lot of my--I was looking for something, No. So that was the--after couple of my friends joined us, then we started cooking in a mess. So in one area, so we will all eat at the same time. 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:26.800 Because, each one of us pitch in and bring some grocery. And cook, and eat something like a mess, we used to call a mess. But the thing is like a hostel. Like a hostel, yeah. 00:34:28.100 --> 00:34:34.600 [JG]: When you were first arriving, did you--what are some of the challenges that you had? 00:34:38.800 --> 00:35:09.000 [NB]: Of course, you need to work with your local graduates, you know. That is something you have to deal with. Because we don't know what their education is in the first place, because we are coming from a different country. But our education was much more superior than the local education, I, we thought. But also, they were also very nice. Our colleagues were also very nice. Because they knew we are coming from a different part of the world. They also wanted to know how much we know, how much we don’t know. 00:35:09.700 --> 00:35:32.500 They’re very cooperative. So, it was good actually. I didn’t think that was different. But when I went to British Columbia, in Vancouver, I had lot of British colleagues. They were all coming from England. They are coming from England to do the residency in Canada. So that was a different experience-- 00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:34.200 [JG]: That was different for them and for you too, as well. 00:35:34.000 --> 00:36:00.000 [NB]: Yeah. So that that was a different experience. And, there were couple of colleagues from Holland also, in our-- Maevis was our, my chief resident. DeGroot and all those guys, they were from Holland. Yeah, they were all my colleagues too. So it was totally different experience in the sense you learned lot of things from them. 
 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:00.000 [JG]: Yeah, you learn from people. 00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:03.500 [NB]: Exchange of ideas and things, yes. 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.100 [JG]: So, when you first came, you said you were in-- 00:36:08.200 --> 00:36:09.200 [NB]: Tacoma, Washington 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:15.800 [JG]: In Tacoma, Washington. And then you moved to British Columbia and that, again, that was for more training. 00:36:16.050 --> 00:36:16.400 [NB]: Yes. 00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:21.000 [JG]: And how was the life in Vancouver? 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:40.500 [NB]: Vancouver, as I said, there were lot of Britishers. That was a, that was a different experience in the sense, the--at that time British Columbia was full of English people. Now, there is lot more Asian influence-- 00:36:39.600 --> 00:36:40.400 [VD]:Community, yeah. 00:36:40.700 --> 00:37:10.500 [NB]: They are coming from Hong Kong, and that area. So, that time there was only Britishers who were--even the professors were Britishers. And my colleagues, like interns and residents were all Britishers. And, of course, Canada is not that much affluent as America was. But although I didn’t see that much of a difference, but there were lot of children brought from Kamloops. 00:37:10.700 --> 00:37:20.200 Kamloops is up north in Canada, in British Columbia. They use to bring children like, what do you call, Indian. 00:37:21.600 --> 00:37:22.200 [VD]:Indian children. 00:37:20.300 --> 00:37:23.500 [NB]: Local, local-- 00:37:23.700 --> 00:37:24.600 [VD]:Native Indians. 00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:51.700 [NB]: Native Indian kids, okay. Very, very sick. Very, very sick. They use to--because that was so far out, 400 kilometers, 400 miles or something up north, those days, they used to fly them in helicopters, those children were brought to British Columbia Children’s Hospital. At that time. That was a very nice experience because, those kind of activity, we never saw here. 00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:20.100 You know, when I came to Unites States, there was no transport, of helicopter transport, from any other place. There was bringing in the ambulances. Sometimes in Boston Children’s, we used to say, “Busload came.” Because we used to have children around 6 o’clock and then all the mothers used to bring their children, after their school or whatever. Lot of African Americans in Boston Children’s also, at that time. 00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:30.100 [JG]: After British Columbia... it was more training--you took another job at Boston. 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:48.800 [NB]: Yeah. It’s only pediatric training but, I did an internship in Tacoma, Washington, what is general internship. And then I went to pediatrics to British Columbia one year, and then I came to Boston for the next two years. 00:38:48.800 --> 00:39:01.300 [JG]: Okay. Are there any experiences or individuals from your arrival that, you know, you kind of think about? You know, they have like a lasting effect on you? 00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:10.700 [NB]: Mmm. Well, in the sense as I showed you, these are the people who helped us-- 00:39:10.700 --> 00:39:11.200 [JG]: In the pictures. 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:33.900 [NB]: Quite a bit. Some of the other families who helped me also in getting used to the idea of living here alone, so. Because I never lived alone, as I said, I was from a big family. Those are the adjustments I had to make, you know. 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:40.800 [JG]: Would you say that, I guess, making friends in the United States was difficult, or not at all? 00:39:40.900 --> 00:40:03.800 [NB]: Um. Not really. At that time,lot of people were very anxious to meet our Indian families. Because, especially if you are alone, they would like to meet you and take you around. And so, they know that I'm a physician in the hospital. So that was--they also wanted to know what are the things in India. You know? Like what-- 00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:04.600 [VD]:You spoke on radio-- 00:40:05.100 --> 00:40:17.600 [NB]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. As I said, women’s club, with all that. I used to go and talk in the women’s club. And the radio talk and all kinds of things, they were asking. 00:40:19.300 --> 00:40:28.900 [JG]: Um. If we can go back to your very first, in Tacoma. How would you describe that? How would you describe your experience working there? 00:40:31.700 --> 00:41:02.900 [NB]: One thing I should say, it was a Catholic Hospital. Because, they are not very--they did not know much about Indian culture and things. I was also wearing a sari at that time, long sari. But always a clean white sari. One of the objection from the Catholic nun, one time I was working in the surgical unit-- 00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:19.300 Actually what happened was I was supposed in the surgical unit, at that time. Then the nuns objected that I cannot wear the sari in the surgery. Because they thought I will bring dust or something in the sari. 00:41:18.500 --> 00:41:20.500 [JG]: Oh, so it was more for-- 00:41:20.600 --> 00:41:20.900 [NB]: Yes. 00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:22.900 [JG]: Sanitation... 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:51.700 [NB]: Sanitation. Their idea of sanitation. Okay. Anyway, one of my colleague, he was with me, and they complained to him that I am wearing a sari. And I should wear something, Western clothes. And then my colleague explained to them, explained to the nun, “You know it is like asking you to take your hood off. 00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:23.800 You’re asking her to take the sari out. It’s not possible, she will not do it. But she wears a clean clothes everyday, but she might wear the, what do you call, scrubs, in the surgical unit. That should not be a problem.” So I said, “Okay I will wear the scrubs, it’s not a thing.” And when I--scrubs with the surgeons, I have to wear the scrubs, that’s no problem. So they agreed on it. So those are some of the things. 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:54.300 And also early in the morning when we were making rounds, they would go with a light and all that, prayer. So we could not go in front of them, even though it’s an emergency, we had to stay inside the rooms. So those are some of the things--because I did not know religion also. Catholic religion, okay. Because I am very new to this country, as a Hindu, that the religious adjustment was much more difficult for me. 00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:59.900 Than the cultural adjustment here. **laughs** That was an interesting-- 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:01.400 [JG]: Yeah. Interesting, no that sounds very interesting. 00:43:01.600 --> 00:43:13.700 [NB]: I still remember that, one day, early in the morning we were making rounds. One of the nuns says, “No, no you can’t go. You can’t go.” There’s an emergency call coming, and I can't go out. **laughs** 00:43:14.100 --> 00:43:14.700 [JG]: Oh my gosh. 00:43:16.600 --> 00:43:24.600 [NB]: Because they are coming in front of you. So you have to go after they’ve moved. So that’s the kind of things we were facing. 00:43:25.900 --> 00:43:36.000 [JG]: How were you treated in, like, terms of opportunity, advancement, or you know recognition for your work? 00:43:37.300 --> 00:43:41.500 [NB]: In the very first year, you’re talking about? Or all through the-- 00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:43.800 [JG]: Throughout, yeah, throughout. Throughout, you can-- 00:43:44.200 --> 00:44:12.100 [NB]: Recognition was okay. I mean, I didn’t have any problem with recognition or anything. But what I would say, as a lady, I still feel this country has not advanced. They have some kind of a discrimination if you are a woman... As I said, my first appointment, I got only $19,000. I told you right here in America. 00:44:12.600 --> 00:44:14.200 [VD]: And what did you say, what did you tell them? 00:44:14.200 --> 00:44:40.500 [NB]: In America, and I went and asked my head of the department, head of the department. You know, I’m getting a 19,000, for my qualification. I already, board certified pediatrician and I have five years of experience. And I have all this experience, I want you to increase my salary. 00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:47.400 He told me, “Oh, your husband is already making lot of money, you don't need to make.” This is the-- 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:48.200 [JG]: Really? This is here? 00:44:47.500 --> 00:44:48.900 [NB]: kind of-- Yes! 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:50.900 [VD]: In my department, we were in same department. 00:44:50.500 --> 00:44:53.500 [NB]: At the University of Illinois Medical Center. This is what happened. 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:53.700 [JG]: Oh my goodness. 00:44:54.100 --> 00:45:27.600 [NB]: Okay so, I felt very--I told him, “You're not paying for my husband. You’re paying for me, for my qualifications.” So I just walked out. You can not argue with a chief of the department. So again, similar things, several times it happened. Although I stayed there for a long time. To get my promotion to associate professor, I had to struggle a lot because they kept telling me, each department-- I was in two departments, as appointed, when I, second time when I got appointment-- 00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:56.500 Both in pediatrics and obstetrics, because I was doing a perinatal follow-up program, ‘cause it, both the mother and child follow up. So, one of the obstetrics professor tells me, “I don't know how to evaluate your work because I'm not a pediatrician.” He's an obstetrician. And another person says, “You don't belong to our department, your department is obstetrics.” 00:45:56.700 --> 00:46:22.000 So, they kept, you know, tossing one department to another department. For a long time, for almost ten years, this went on. Until I got a new chairman. New chairman recognized and he said, “I will help you to promote your papers.” So it took me another 15 years to get my promotion at University of Illinois. 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:25.000 [VD]: Any other local person would have been-- 00:46:25.100 --> 00:46:57.700 [NB]: Any other white man or white woman in my position would have claimed long before. And, professor who got my appointment he says to me, second time, “Oh, you should have applied for associate professorship when you came in here, you had all the qualification.” I said, “Why didn't you tell me that before? I’m here already 10 years and you are telling me now.” Yeah. So, there are the kind of activities which I think is still not very-- 00:46:58.100 --> 00:47:04.100 They still don't think women are capable of doing things. That is my-- 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:07.400 [VD]: No, women don’t deserve-- 00:47:07.700 --> 00:47:22.200 [NB]: Only, thing in this country is women are not treated well, okay? Because if you keep saying that no woman will fight because she thinks, “Okay, if I say something, I'm going to lose the job,” right? 00:47:22.600 --> 00:47:25.000 [JG]: Right, they’re scared to lose a job. 00:47:25.300 --> 00:47:38.200 [NB]: Yeah. So anyway, it took almost 15 years for me to get my associate professorship. Then I worked for another few years and I said, “This is it. I’m gonna quit.” So! 00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:45.400 [JG]: Wow … I’m sorry to hear about that. That’s--but-- 00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:45.900 [NB]: No, no, but-- 00:47:43.600 --> 00:47:46.300 [VD]: Well, that’s life 00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:53.300 [NB]: No, it is not something which you want to talk about, but you asked me whether there was any problem. 00:47:53.300 --> 00:47:58.200 [VD]: I think you should go in the (inaudible). Because the fact is, that’s kind of things they want to know. 00:47:58.600 --> 00:48:00.400 [JG]: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, definitely. Like you said. 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.500 [NB]: Yeah, because I was only part-time person, but I used to work five days a week, okay? 00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:07.500 [JG]: **laughs** almost full-time. 00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:33.000 [NB]: Almost full-time. But they never considered that, “Oh, she's working five days a week.” No. Although I had lot of publications and research. They did not think it was okay. So it took some time for them to realize. I think that was a--that two different person, not the same people, anyway. 00:48:37.600 --> 00:48:52.000 [JG]: Um. Well, I know you, you were already kind of describing it, but throughout your, your early years, when you first got here, how would you describe the interaction with your bosses? 00:48:53.800 --> 00:49:09.600 [NB]: Oh, that was okay, no problem. At that time there was no problem. Anyway, as usual, as I say, if you are little more vocal, then you are not getting anywhere. That is a fact everywhere I think. 00:49:09.900 --> 00:49:10.700 [JG]: If you stay local? 00:49:11.100 --> 00:49:18.800 [NB]: No, little vocal. In the sense, if you say anything, what we are-- 00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:20.400 [VD]: You fight for the right **laughs** 00:49:20.100 --> 00:49:26.900 [NB]: Yeah, you fight for your rights. In the sense you want more money or whatever then you don’t get it. That’s the kind of thing. 00:49:26.900 --> 00:49:39.700 [JG]: Okay... So, I'm assuming by this time, you guys had already met and you guys had already gotten married and-- 00:49:39.700 --> 00:50:03.000 [NB]: Yeah, we had three children by the time I joined--second time when I joined, I had two children and then I had the third one there after 1974, he was born in 1974. ‘72 I had the second daughter and our first daughter was born in-- 00:50:03.100 --> 00:50:03.500 [VD]:Canada 00:50:03.500 --> 00:50:06.800 [NB]: Canada in ’70 year, so. 00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:10.100 [JG]: And you guys became US citizens at the same time? 00:50:10.500 --> 00:50:10.700 [VD]:Yeah 00:50:10.700 --> 00:50:12.600 [NB]: Yeah, yeah, same day, same-- 00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:13.100 [JG]: The same time? 00:50:12.100 --> 00:50:41.100 [NB]: Because we already had two American children, and so we decided we’ll--one of the thing is if you are an American citizen, you’ll have more opportunities. And every application will say whether you are a citizen of this country or not. It’s not--the plain residency is not enough. So, we decided--For even to get a grant, you know? 00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:52.900 If you want to do research grant, you need to have--you’re a citizen of this country you will, very have a better chance, than not as citizen. Yeah. These are the discrimination, what I am talking about. 00:50:52.900 --> 00:50:53.300 [JG]: Yeah. 00:50:53.500 --> 00:50:57.500 [NB]: Okay. These are, this is professional discrimination, not a really-- 00:50:58.200 --> 00:51:01.300 [JG]: That’s a good way to put it, professional discrimination. 00:51:01.300 --> 00:51:02.800 [NB]: Professional discrimination, yes. 00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:20.300 [JG]: Um... So, these next set of questions are, they’re going to be more about community, you know, how you had said, you guys said that you guys are obviously very, very involved-- 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:21.900 [NB]: Yes, all through the years we-- 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:22.300 [JG]: --in the community. 00:51:22.100 --> 00:51:23.600 [NB]: In spite of all this-- 00:51:23.700 --> 00:51:24.300 [VD]: All our life 00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:39.200 [NB]: --issues, but we have been very much involved in our community and activities. And as he says, he’s not only in the temple, we have been involved in the, you know, what do you call, AIA-- 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.000 [VD]: American Association of Physicians 00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:43.600 [NB]: Associations of-- 00:51:43.900 --> 00:51:46.400 [VD]:Associations of American Physicians of Indian Origin. 00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:55.000 [NB]: Phyicians of--AAPI--and also, there was another association-- 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:55.700 [VD]: AIA 00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:56.400 [NB]: AIA 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:58.600 [VD]: Association of Indians in America. 00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:03.200 [NB]: It’s, you know, several community organizations we are involved, too. 00:52:04.900 --> 00:52:14.350 [JG]: Can you tell me a little bit more about the community center in the temple and your role? And more--I know we had discussed it a little bit in his interview but-- 00:52:14.350 --> 00:52:47.300 [NB]: The community center as we said, it started in 1978, the temple organization started in 1978. ’77, ’78 that was a preliminary meetings, how to organize and all those kind of things. ’78 it was established. And, since ’78, I’ve been involved in the temple because I’m, my idea was to improve the cultural activities in the temple. 00:52:47.300 --> 00:53:13.200 That was one of the ideas. So, initially we started, I started singing myself in the temple. Later on, we were, as I said, I was developing like a gardens and things for the temple activity. And then we made some food, because there was no cook in the temple. We had to make our own food. 00:53:13.300 --> 00:53:15.000 [VD]: You served on committees, various committees. 00:53:15.100 --> 00:53:19.500 [NB]: And I was in various committees like a--um. 00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:20.100 [VD]: Music committee 00:53:20.100 --> 00:53:48.300 [NB]: Music committee. And also the, what do you call, the volunteer committees, and all those committees. And religious committee. Some of those committees I was organzing, I was involved in the-- So, not only that, and I have, we have our own Kannada kuta, they say, from Karnataka, from our own language, we have another organization. Just people from-- 00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:49.100 [JG]: Oh, from that part-- 00:53:49.100 --> 00:54:12.800 [NB]: From that part of the country. And that, I was a vice president, the organization. So and I also organized several music concerts for them also **laughs**. Like (name) and all those things. So, I’ve been involved with lot of activities in the community. 00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:17.600 [JG]: In the Indian community? Um. Is there a certain-- 00:54:17.600 --> 00:54:23.950 [NB]: And also in the--as a professional I volunteered many schools. Even in the Pilsen neighborbood-- 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:23.600 [VD]:CPS 00:54:24.500 --> 00:54:44.100 [NB]: I went and examined lot of children for school physicals and things. And University of Illinois has a school in South-side and I went and examined the children in that area. So that way, I was volunteering myself, even as a professional. You know, in the-- 00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.600 [VD]:Chicago School 00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:51.800 [NB]: Yeah, I was a principal of the-- 00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:52.500 [VD]:For the day 00:54:52.800 --> 00:55:06.600 [NB]: Principal of the day, you know the Chicago Public Schools have a day for the, anybody who wants to participate as a principal for the day. So I volunteered-- 00:55:06.600 --> 00:55:07.650 [JG]: Oh, you volunteered for it? 00:55:07.700 --> 00:55:08.400 [NB]: Yeah. 00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:09.100 [JG]: How was that experience? 00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:39.000 [NB]: It was good. Actually, I was able to go to one of the school where they have the pregnant girls, you know. Teenage girls who are in the school system. One time, I was involved in that and talked to those girls. And another time when I was in a South-side some school where--it was a big school, like 400 children or something in that school. 00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:59.400 And they wanted to know why I became a doctor, and all those kind of things. And how to get to that position, all those things, children wanted to know. So that we talked about those kind of things, and discussions and things. So that was good, that was Daley’s time. Richard Daley. 00:55:59.600 --> 00:56:00.400 [JG]: The first--his father. 00:56:00.700 --> 00:56:05.800 [NB]: No, no, no. Mayor Richard. Recently he retired; his name. 00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.000 [JG]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. 00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:12.700 [NB]: The son Richard Daley. I didn’t’ know much about his father, although we were here. 00:56:14.300 --> 00:56:31.800 [JG]: Do you--is there a certain organization or community center that you guys, kind of, more affiliate to? Or you think is very important to the Indian Community besides the ones we had mentioned? That you guys would like to mention it-- 00:56:31.700 --> 00:57:00.600 [VD]: No we go to many organizations. But the temple we are talking, LeMont Temple, is the one we are associated as well, first president. And we invested quite a bit of time. We spend more time, but we go to every temple. There’s the other temple in Aurora, we go there. Other temples, Sai temple and other places. So really, we are not like belonging to one--we don’t have what you call membership in a church. 00:57:00.600 --> 00:57:08.900 So we go to--but because of our connection with this working we have strong affiliation to it 00:57:08.900 --> 00:57:19.500 [NB]: And also professional organizations. We go to Pediatric Society meetings and we go to, your, what is it? Medicine? 00:57:20.300 --> 00:57:20.700 [VD]: Huh? 00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:21.800 [NB]: The IOM 00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:23.600 [VD]: Institute of Medicine. 00:57:23.700 --> 00:57:27.300 [NB]: Institute of Medicine--Institute of Medicine we go there-- 00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:29.900 [VD]: We go to Chicago Pediatric Society. 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:42.300 [NB]: And what is other one we go to? Once a month we go there for the, some lecture some things.… That is a Chicago meeting only. 00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:53.700 [VD]: Yeah. Now, we are involved in a professional meeting. We’ve been, here we were involved with a Polish society, Lithuanian society, because we are going to-- 00:57:53.600 --> 00:57:54.200 [JG]: You guys travel-- 00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:19.900 [NB]: Helping them in that area so. We were also involved in, that’s the, that’s the basic idea. But it’s impossible to be involved in many, many societies. Because we were also busy ourselves with the children and also our own profession, you know, so. Only one weekend we get, so how many places we can go? We also have to take care of-- **laughs** 00:58:20.100 --> 00:58:27.700 [JG]: No, it’s very understandable, yeah. So bringing that back, what did you like to do in your leisure time? 00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:58.800 [NB]: I do knit **laughs**. I knit, I do some sewing, knitting, music. Those are all ladies’ things I do. Of course, shopping. As ladies you cannot complain about shopping, right? **laughs** And we do go for vacation sometimes. 00:58:58.900 --> 00:59:16.200 But, Most of our vacation ends up doing some professional work. Whenever, whichever country we go, there is some professional activity. Either they’re giving a lecture or interacting with other people. Then, afterwards, we see some this part the country also. 00:59:18.200 --> 00:59:21.800 [JG]: That’s very understandable. I know you guys said China, Poland-- 00:59:22.100 --> 00:59:24.100 [VD]: Lithuania, Morocco 00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:28.400 [NB]: Last year, we were in Argentina. It was very, very nice actually. Argentina was very nice. 00:59:28.500 --> 00:59:29.900 [JG]: That was again professional and-- 00:59:29.700 --> 00:59:30.400 [VD]:Yeah, professional 00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:35.400 [NB]: Professional meeting and then we went around the whole country. Argentina, yeah. 00:59:37.500 --> 00:59:57.900 [JG]: I only have just a couple more questions. Is there a certain experience or something special that you will always remember about coming to America? 01:00:05.900 --> 01:00:08.700 [NB]: On the way **laughs** on the way to America? 01:00:08.700 --> 01:00:09.700 [JG]: Uh huh, or-- 01:00:09.700 --> 01:00:11.300 [VD]: Coming to America, having come to America. 01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:14.400 [JG]: Yeah having come to America, you know, in general. 01:00:14.500 --> 01:00:39.400 [NB]: Okay, on the way to America, you know as my husband told you, I was given only $8 exchange value, at that time in 1963, only 40 rupees, I had to exchange. That time, the rupee was very high, now it is devaluated quite a bit. 01:00:40.600 --> 01:00:57.600 $8 I had, so in $2, I spent and went around seeing the Japan. The Japan was just after the-- ’63 was right after the world war, they were building the Japanese, you know-- 01:00:57.600 --> 01:01:00.400 [JG]: The infrastructure 01:00:59.900 --> 01:01:23.300 [NB]: Tokyo. Infrastructure and Tokyo. And I also went and saw the Tokyo palace, the King’s palace and things. Another experience, I remember, is 1967, when I went to India, on the way, stopped in Italy. Rome. And I saw the Vatican. That was one other experiences. 01:01:24.700 --> 01:01:33.500 Um. And my experience in Tacoma was very fruitful and also British Columbia was very nice. 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:40.900 [JG]: What was the hardest part about life at the beginning, like here in America? 01:01:42.600 --> 01:02:12.900 [NB]: Of course, as a girl, I was alone. And that was a difficult thing to come to terms with, you know. Because you didn't have anybody else and you have to stay in--because I was a highly protected at home, they were not allowing us to even to go to some neighbors or movies by yourself, we always had to go with some chaperone. And here, I’m alone by myself, although with a lot of freedom. Still, you were scared to go out, I was scared to go out. 01:02:12.900 --> 01:02:43.000 Although the crime was very low at the time. People never locked their houses. That was very interesting thing, you know. In Tacoma, I saw many families, they would invite me to their house. There's nobody in the house, there is no lock or key. They say, It’s okay, nobody will come and take anything here. And that’s how they used to tell me. And another experience I had was, in Tacoma, one time they took me to a fair. 01:02:43.400 --> 01:03:08.700 That was in Spokane, Washington. Spokane, Washington has a large number of Indian population, local Indian, American Indian, American Indian. And, when we were going through, one of the older man, he looked at me and says, “Where are you from?” “I’m from India.” “So you are my cousin!” he said. And I was surprised-- 01:03:08.100 --> 01:03:09.300 [JG]: Cousin, cousin, cousin, yeah 01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:24.400 [NB]: Cousin! Indian, I’m an Indo-American Indian also, similarly he felt he is my cousin. So, it was a very--you know, I still remember him saying that, “You are my cousin.” And I said, “Oh my goodness, that's very nice.” 01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:26.000 [JG]: That’s interesting. 01:03:25.600 --> 01:03:27.800 [NB]: At least he is accepting me as his cousin. 01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:31.400 [JG]: Yeah, as, you know, someone coming from Asia. 01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:32.500 [NB]: Yeah, yes Asia, yes. 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:37.000 [JG]: That’s interesting. That’s funny, how did--that made you feel good? 01:03:37.300 --> 01:03:43.300 [NB]: Yeah! It made me feel good because it was something, somebody identifying you with himself **laughs** 01:03:43.600 --> 01:04:04.200 [JG]: Cultural, your cultural, you know, similarities there. That’s interesting. If--I’m gonna ask you kind of what I asked him to his--are there any recommendations you would give to someone who is, is planning to leave India and come to United States? What would you say? 01:04:04.100 --> 01:04:33.300 [NB]: They should come with a--I would say, come legally, you know. Because, now right now, the question is whether a legal entrance or illegal entrance. I know there are lot of Indians in this country who have come have not gone home. That is true and so I would not recommend it for anybody because that was not a good thing, in a sense, it doesn't say good things about the people who have come legally also. 01:04:33.700 --> 01:05:03.300 Okay. So that is one thing. And if they are bright enough to come and make their, you know, life here, it’s a wonderful opportunity for them to come here. I think if they’re young, if they’re energetic, if they can--see if people who are young should come. That is my recommendation. Not they at the old age, old age you cannot do too much here. And also it is very difficult to adjust. 01:05:03.300 --> 01:05:26.300 Because you are culturally, you're--I would not go, like to go live in some other country now. Because I, all my friends are here, and all my life is here. So, I would like to stay here, whereas people at older age, if I go to another--like even going back to India, I would have very difficult time. 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:26.700 [JG]: Really? 01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:59.500 [NB]: Because, I don't have any of my friends there. Even my relatives are very few, you know? So, I will have to make new friendship, new association, new living situation, it would be very difficult for me at my age. So, I would not recommend those kind of things. But I think, young people they have no ties back home, or they have no ties here so they can invest their life here, and make something good out of it. 01:06:01.600 --> 01:06:10.100 [JG]: That sounds really good, I agree with that. Is there anything else that you would like to add or talk about that we haven't talked about yet? Or? 01:06:10.200 --> 01:06:24.100 [NB]: Well, I wanna know, what is this American Heritage, who started this one? And what is this supposed to be? And if this is going to be a museum? Indo-American Heritage Museum, where is this going to be? 01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:45.000 [JG]: So this is--so the project itself, like I said, it's going to be, like oral histories. So it's going to be accessible to the website. The exhibit is, it’s actually exactly like a traveling museum, they don't have an actual location, but they do have like a cultural center. 01:06:45.800 --> 01:07:11.700 And basically this is a grant project that got accepted. And what they're going to do is, they're going to basically collect oral histories from different people, prominent members in Chicago. And they're going to basically display them. And we're collecting the oral history, narratives, to make a collection of different people’s-- 01:07:11.800 --> 01:07:16.300 [VD]: Will you print it?--I mean, you will extract that and type. 01:07:16.300 --> 01:07:23.100 [JG]: Yeah, transcribe it. And they're going to be available after they're edited. 01:07:24.200 --> 01:07:25.700 [VD]:And then you put, where do you put that? 01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:52.600 [JG]: Some of them are going to go to the actual website and then they could be possibly used by the Smithsonian Museum. They have an exhibit called Beyond Bollywood right now and they're going to be collecting--they're going around the country collecting different projects right now. So if it does get picked up, it will be in the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American program. 01:07:53.200 --> 01:08:11.600 And it will be used by the Smithsonian and it will also be used by The Field Museum in 2017, hopefully. Hopefully. So, I can give you guys, I actually have, let me give you guys these guys before I forget. These are a couple of little pamphlets-- 01:08:11.900 --> 01:08:13.100 [NB]: Yeah, I had seen this somewhere 01:08:13.100 --> 01:08:15.500 [JG]: Mhm, from the actual museum 01:08:16.900 --> 01:08:43.800 [VD]: One of these things, I mean I did not mention but, if you look at my. Well, there are certain things may be interest. This is Ellis Island award. Then, similarly there are other awards, like a Lifetime Achievement Award and some things of that sort if they are interested. To know in the record.