WEBVTT 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:37.100 [ANNA TAKADA]: This is an interview with Padma Chandwanwey as part of the Indo American Heritage Museum’s Masala chat oral history project the interview is being conducted on July 28th, 2016 at 1:15 p.m. at the Chicago Public Library Northtown branch. Padma Chandwanwey is being interviewed by Anna Takada of the Indo American Heritage Museum. 00:00:37.100 --> 00:00:49.400 Okay so, now that that's out of the way our first question is if you could just state and spell your first and last name. 00:00:49.400 --> 00:01:04.500 [PADMA CHANDWANEY]: Padma. P a d m a. Last name, Chandwaney. C h a n d w a n e y. 00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:16.500 [AT]: Okay, and now that we have that, can we talk about when and where you were born and then if you could describe the town where you grew up a little bit. 00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:48.300 [PC]: I was born in-—now it is Pakistan but then it was India. Hyderabad, Sindh on December 20th 1942. And was there until I was 5 years old and then the country divided. 00:01:48.300 --> 00:02:05.700 Then we went to Bombay, India. And ever since I was in Bombay, India until I came to this country which was 1963, after I got married. 00:02:05.700 --> 00:02:14.500 [AT]: Do you have memories of--I'm sorry the town was called-- 00:02:13.500 --> 00:02:16.300 [PC]: Hyderabad. Hydera. Bad. 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:19.400 [AT]: Hyderabad. Do you have memories of there? 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:50.800 [PC]: Yeah, for that age little bit because the most sad memory I have, my father passed away there in 1947 before the partition. He died of, you know, diabetes problems and things. So that’s a sad memory. But then I have some good memories with my father and mother. 00:02:50.800 --> 00:03:23.700 And I was the third child in the family, all together we were six. Three brothers, three sisters. So I have two older brothers, I was the third, and then three younger than me. So that means when my father died in 1947 even though I was 5 but the rest three of them were so young they don’t even have any memory of those days, you know? 00:03:23.700 --> 00:03:56.900 So, what else...memories. I remember couple of trips in India that we took with my father. He took all of us to his mother, that means my grandmother, my mother, his sister, we all went on the tour of North India he took us. And one thing I remember in those days, I’m sure there were air-conditioned trains in ‘46 and ‘47. 00:03:56.900 --> 00:04:18.600 But for our comfort what he used to do on the trains, he used to buy blocks of ice to cool the—-you know, it was summertime--to cool the train compartment. That, I remember that how, you know, kind of how much caring he was for the whole family. 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:24.100 [AT]: So, how was the ice used? Just to cool down? Or? 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:28.700 [PC]: It does. It did work like air conditioning. Ice. 00:04:28.700 --> 00:04:29.600 [AT]: I see. 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:48.200 [PC]: Yeah. Ice, you know? such big chunks of ice and when it will melt down, at the next train stop you till buy more. That was innovative idea of cooling the train compartment. 00:04:48.200 --> 00:04:54.500 [AT]: So do you remember the move to Bombay as a child? 00:04:54.500 --> 00:05:25.500 [PC]: Yes. We came on train-—even though I have heard a lot of people went on the ships and boats. But our family migrated to Bombay on trains. And luckily since my father was a businessman, he--we already had a place in Bombay. So, we didn’t have to look for-—because he had an office, you know? 00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:54.400 Even though we will sometimes live in Hyderabad but we will be going to Bombay so many times. So, I would say we were lucky not to suffer a lot like I have heard people suffering at that time. So, that was the move and when we came to Bombay of course then there were relatives who didn’t have, you know, any place to go. 00:05:54.400 --> 00:06:24.400 So lot of our relatives came and stayed with us in that house. Though it was a big house, you know, for those days. Four bedrooms and terrace and so, we had a house full of people, you know, so. So they were lucky that we were there for them. And then gradually all the people, you know, went and looked for their own houses and-- 00:06:24.400 --> 00:06:30.600 But none of them really settled in Bombay then they went other cities of India. 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:39.300 [AT]: Ok. Maybe we can talk about your parents a little bit. So you were very young when your father passed—- 00:06:39.300 --> 00:06:40.400 [PC]: Five, yeah. 00:06:40.400 --> 00:06:43.500 [AT]: But you said he was a businessman? 00:06:43.500 --> 00:07:12.000 [PC]: Yeah he had a business in Nigeria. He had started that business in 1935! And I was born in ’42 so that means he had already started the business and it was going--So he used to go to Nigeria and stay in Bombay but we were in India only because he couldn't take six children along. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:20.800 And he had established the, you know, run the business too. So that was about him, and— 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:23.400 [AT]: What was his name? What was his name? 00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:44.500 [PC]: Oh. His company name, he kept his name K. Issardas. I s s a r d a s. That was his first name and gave us his father’s initial so he made a company with that name K. Issardas 00:07:44.500 --> 00:07:46.900 [AT]: And what what kind of company was it? 00:07:46.900 --> 00:08:09.200 [PC]: Import, Export. So he will come to India and you know like, order the materials, fabrics, from India, get it to Nigeria where he will, you know, sell. So he was wholesaler plus he also had a retail there. 00:08:09.200 --> 00:08:11.800 [AT]: And your mother? 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:43.000 [PC]: My mother she was, of course, a mother. **chuckles** Of six--seven--six children and then she also passed away young, when I was 19. But, so she lived about 14 years after my father passed away. So, we all used to say that she just lived those fourteen years to raise us, because she was such a devoted wife to my father. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:09:09.900 She didn't live her life. Since then she--when my father died--she will just sleep on the floor. She thought, “I don’t deserve to sleep on the bed.” And she wouldn't eat any good food. She will just eat the simplest food. And she was only 32 at the time when she was widowed. 00:09:09.900 --> 00:09:29.700 So, so we say all those 14 years she survived just she wanted to see us, you know, grow and be on our own. But when she died, say I was 19 my youngest sister was 13? 12 or 13. Yeah. 00:09:29.700 --> 00:09:37.400 [AT]: And, what kind of person was she like? Or how do you remember her? 00:09:37.400 --> 00:10:08.400 [PC]: Sad. I remember her, she was always sad. But it's not that she abused us or something, but she just couldn't really give too much to six children. So--and she was very compassionate everybody we knew will come to her and tell her their problems. And she didn't go anywhere. 00:10:08.400 --> 00:10:24.200 She was just at home. But people will just come visit her, you know, tell her and, you know, pour their hearts out. So that, you know--and she was a good counselor to people, I will say. 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:26.000 [AT]: And, what was her name? 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:33.800 [PC]: I will spell it, it is pronounced Jethi. J E T H I. 00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:43.000 [AT]: Ok, and...So, did you, did you grow up speaking Sindhi? 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:53.500 [PC]: Well, at home we always spoke Sindhi, and at school-age, then English was our second language. Yeah. 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:55.700 [AT]: And school-age being around? 00:10:55.700 --> 00:11:25.000 [PC]: Around 6 to...I finished high school at 17? Yeah. High school was done at 17. So, see this, that was the time of partition. So, for today’s standards, I think I was one year late to start the school. Otherwise here we would start at 5. There I was about 6 when I started. 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:33.100 Otherwise, in India, people finish high school at sixteen. But I finished at 17. **chuckles** 00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:43.200 [AT]: So did you, do you remember--or were you aware of what was going on as a child? Partition? Or how was that explained to you-- 00:11:42.200 --> 00:12:11.700 [PC]: Not really. Just it was... I just remember that we had to hide, you know, and even my youngest sister who was born in those days only ’47. So when we had to go to some relative's house, my uncle would hide her into his coat, you know—jacket or coat or whatever. 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:42.000 So that, you know, people don’t snatch her away. And other things I remember, not too much because as a 5-year-old, you know? 5, 6 year old. But I do remember the riots. Some of the riots, you know. They used to be--we will pass the road and people will be you know, shouting and--you know, that was between Muslims and Hindus, the partition. And otherwise, I don't think-- 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:55.700 It was like fun for us when we were coming on train to India and all that. So at that age I had no, really, conception of what was happening. 00:12:55.700 --> 00:13:07.600 [AT]: Ok. So you don’t-—or do you recall how you felt at the time? You said you were excited to come to India so— 00:13:06.700 --> 00:13:36.000 [PC]: Yeah, we are going some place like, didn’t even know it is India. But Bombay was familiar to me because we used to come and go because of my father's business, you know? Sometimes when he was not in Nigeria, he will be in Bombay, and then we all will be with him in Bombay. And when he was in Nigeria for--Then we will go back to Hyderabad where my grandmother was there. 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.800 [AT]: Was your grandmother alive? Did she move with you? 00:13:38.800 --> 00:14:08.700 [PC]: Oh yeah, she lived until 95--She really used to cry so much that “Why I am alive when my son” you know? “at 42.” My parents were 10 years apart in the age, you know, in those days. So she says, “My young son gone. Then my daughter-in-law,” that’s my mom, “she's gone. What I'm doing? Why doesn't God?--” you know. 00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:18.100 So she lived until I will say 1965. Even after I got married, yeah. I got married in ’63. 00:14:20.900 --> 00:14:27.800 [AT]: Did you grow up practicing any religion? Were you, was your family religious? 00:14:27.800 --> 00:14:29.800 [PC]: Say that again? 00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:31.600 [AT]: Is your family religious? 00:14:31.600 --> 00:15:01.300 [PC]: Religious... My mother wasn’t much. I think she had lost, like, the faith in God because, you know, after the experience of losing her husband. But my aunts--you know we all used to live together in Bombay house, aunts and uncles. My aunts were religious. They will go to mandirs and they’ll go to all the swamis and all the gurus. 00:15:01.300 --> 00:15:11.900 But my mother never did. So I think that kind of also affected my upbringing, you know. I'm not too religious. 00:15:11.900 --> 00:15:15.600 [AT]: So, did you practice any-— 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:42.600 [PC]: No that way, I will still say I’m a Hindu. I’m a Hindu. But I don't like--I'm not a fanatic like Hindu who goes to temples everyday.... I’ll go maybe once in 3, 4 months when there is something special going on at the temple. Otherwise--you know, “mandir” is temple I don't know if you have heard, but yeah. Okay. 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:49.900 [AT]: So did you--did you practice growing up? Hinduism? 00:15:49.900 --> 00:16:02.000 [PC]: I would say yes, yeah, mhmm. Practice, what do you mean by practice? Like doing things and observing—- 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.800 [AT]: Sure. Holidays and-— 00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:33.400 [PC]: Yeah, holidays, of course, yeah, mhmm. That’s true. But I would still say, much less than some people I have seen up to this age that how, how much they practice than I’m, I’m not ashamed of myself because that’s me. But I just believe in one power. I know there is a power that is, you know, ruling this world. 00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:46.700 But I say I haven't seen the God. Nobody has seen the God. That’s my explanation of religion, yes but there is something--there is some power that is going on and that's why we are all here. 00:16:46.700 --> 00:17:00.600 [AT]: Mhmm...Maybe if we could talk about your schooling, in India. So, you mentioned that's when you started in Bombay, a year late. 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:01.500 [PC]: Yeah, mhmm. 00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:05.700 [AT]: So what was school like, growing up? 00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:34.500 [PC]: Oh, see since--that was Sindhi, our language, my language was Sindh-—India has so many languages, you know that. So my language is called Sindhi. S i n d h i. And in those days there were, of course lot of English-medium schools, convent schools. 00:17:34.500 --> 00:18:05.900 But since we moved to India, some good person started a Sindhi school--opened up a Sindhi school. You know, he was also like us, you know? migrated to India and he thought there should be a Sindhi school where Sindhi kids can go and learn their language, which is Sindhi. So luckily in that year only there was a school that has started in that language. 00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:39.100 But they didn’t even have their own building. They shared the school building with another already established school in there. Which was--think it was Gujarati, you know?--That was a Gujarati language school. So they had this arrangement with them, first half of the day we, the Sindhis, will go to that school building from 7 to 11:30, just you know that many hours—- 00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:39.000 [AT]: The morning 00:18:39.100 --> 00:19:08.000 [PC]: Yeah. And then from 12 to 5, will be the original school that used to be there in that building from 12 to 5. So, so that way it was-—there was not much in the school, but at least there was, you know, discipline. They will teach us Math. English was only until--no, English didn’t start as second language until 7th grade. 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:38.900 So up to 7th grade it was just Sindhi everything, you know? What is it? History, Geogra--There were all the subjects. Science, Math--of course Math doesn’t need a language. It just has numbers. So, it was good, I think--made a lot of you know, met lot of people who were in the same situations. And, let me see... 00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:46.500 [AT]: So did you know a lot--did you have any friends who also moved to Bombay? Or-- 00:19:46.500 --> 00:20:12.600 [PC]: Yeah, mostly everyone had moved to Bombay. And I would say we were lucky that we had a place in the central Bombay, you know? Where the school was not too far. Some people who migrated to Bombay from Pakistan, they were living in camps. And they, you know, oof!, quite far away from the city. 00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:42.100 And there were people who used to come to school after like one and half hours commute on the trains, you know? So there were lot of people, and then of course they used to kind of say, “Oh you are lucky you live nearby. Your family has a car. Your family has this,” because they were all struggling because they didn't have a father who had business in Bombay. 00:20:42.100 --> 00:21:10.600 Yeah...so it was tough. Now, after, you know, after while I thought, “What is this? We are really lucky! I have no reason to complain. Here these people come on monsoon. Bombay’s monsoon is so bad, they will come to school, no matte--because people wanted to learn, and they wanted to come to that Sindhi school, because that was our language. So it was good that one principal started. 00:21:10.600 --> 00:21:37.800 Because that principal used to have the school in, you know, Hyderabad, where we were from. So he had all the experience of how to run a school and he knew the importance of having that school. Even lot of teachers, you know, they were also struggling. Because they had to feed their families, they would come, you know, from far 00:21:37.800 --> 00:22:10.200 Then they will be tutoring giving private tuitions to some students, you know, who were well-to-do. Those teachers will go to their houses no matter what, rain-or-shine or whatever. Yeah. People did--See the reason because I was small maybe, I may not remember too much. I do, 5, at age of 5 and 6, I do remember lot but they were people who really suffered a lot, when I'm thinking about them. 00:22:11.300 --> 00:22:14.800 [AT]: Did you have any close friends or anything? 00:22:14.800 --> 00:22:43.200 [PC]: Yeah, there were friends, then we even kept in touch after I moved in here, in 1963. And then some of them move to Japan. You know. Everyone got married and went everywhere. Yeah, yeah. We had lot good friends, especially I had two friends that all the teachers and everybody used to say that “No one can separate you two. 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:52.000 “Because whatever you two do, it is together. We always see you together.” We used to go to each other's house and everything. 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.700 [AT]: What was your friend’s name? 00:22:53.700 --> 00:23:15.300 [PC]: Sundri. S u n d r i. But finally I have lost the touch, so, I don't even have any of her, you know, sisters’ or brothers’ phone number that I can find out what happened to her. 00:23:15.300 --> 00:23:22.300 [AT]: So, if we could talk about your siblings for a bit, you said, it sounds like you have a few? 00:23:22.300 --> 00:23:41.000 [PC]: Yeah we are 6, **chuckling**, yeah. So there were two brothers older than me. One, seven years older to me. Let me see, 33 to 40, actually 8 years. My oldest brother 8 years older, to me 00:23:40.700 --> 00:23:41.500 [AT]: And, what was his name? 00:23:41.500 --> 00:24:02.100 [PC]: Huh? Lachman. L a c h m a n. That is also a medical name I see in some titles on the TV shows. And my second brother’s Narain, Narain. He was 5 years older to me. 00:24:02.100 --> 00:24:03.400 [AT]: And how do you spell his name? 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:12.800 [PC]: N a r a i n. And, in fact he just passed away, two years back. 00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:13.600 [AT]: Oh, I’m sorry. 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:44.200 [PC]: He had—-yeah. And then it was me. After me, another sister who’s three years younger to me. Her name, Nirmala. N i r m a l a. Nirmala. Then a brother, Shyam. S h y a m. Shyam. He was 5, 6 years younger to me. 00:24:44.200 --> 00:25:10.200 He also passed away, last year. And then the youngest sister Meena. M e e n a. She lives in New Jersey, and the other sister also lives in New Jersey. So I have two sisters who live in New Jersey. And, let’s see. 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:25.100 Somehow, of course, the brothers I lost, you know, so now that leaves us, otherwise we were always saying, “Oh three brothers for—-three sisters for three brothers.” But then now it is only one brother and we three sisters. 00:25:25.100 --> 00:25:29.200 [AT]: And your brothers did they also move to the US? 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:38.500 [PC]: No, see they had--since my father's business was in Nigeria, so they were in the family business. 00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:40.000 [AT]: All three of them? 00:25:40.000 --> 00:26:09.900 [PC]: Yeah, togeth-—Well, kind of. They continued the business as a family business. Then after--You know and then they had their children grown up, my brothers, so naturally time comes the families have to look for, look out for their families. So then they all three split. So the youngest went to Spain and two older ones stayed in Nigeria. 00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:39.000 And then, of course, their children also take care of the business. But now that the situation in Nigeria is not very good. They had their industries, factories, everything--they kind of changed the concept of business from import/export to manufacturing there and all that, so. But now they kind of are trying to wrap it up. 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:50.800 [AT]: So, let’s see. Did you go to university after high school? 00:26:50.800 --> 00:27:19.200 [PC]: I just went to college for two years. Yeah. I used to have--keep bad healt--you know, my health wasn't good. So, my mother thought it's not worth, you know, Bombay's monsoons and thing, you know? So I just did two years, even though I was very ambitious. I wanted to be a doctor. And which, even until today, **chuckling** 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:36.200 You know, my son who is a doctor, he always says, “I think it was of your blood that you wanted to be a doctor, so I became a doctor.” I said, “That's good, I didn't push you about anything.” Yeah. 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.800 [AT]: And so what did you study in those two years? 00:27:38.800 --> 00:27:43.700 [PC]: I was math and science major. Yeah. 00:27:43.700 --> 00:27:46.200 [AT]: And, which university were you—- 00:27:46.200 --> 00:28:01.800 [PC]: It was Bombay University's College. The college name was Jai Hind. J a i H i n d. Two words. Jai Hind College. 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:12.600 [AT]: So if it was--if it were--it was two years, did that mean that you’ve got your Bachelor’s? Or you-- 00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:25.800 [PC]: So I kind of not--didn't complete Bachelor’s. So those two years was the program of the Bachelor’s program, but I couldn’t keep on going. 00:28:25.800 --> 00:28:30.000 [AT]: Ok, and so what did you do after your schooling? 00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:40.400 [PC]: Oh, after that, of course, let’s see. What year was that? ’58, ’60. Soon, my mother died in ’61. 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:41.600 [AT]: When you were 19 00:28:41.600 --> 00:29:13.800 [PC]: Yeah. And then, of course, I being the oldest sister of three. Three were younger than me. And kind of became a mother, motherly to my three younger ones, you know? And--but then I used to keep in touch. I’ll join the cooking classes. I'll join the tailoring classes-- 00:29:13.800 --> 00:29:14.800 [AT]: In Bombay? 00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:39.600 [PC]: Bombay, yeah. I’ll join the art classes. So, this way I just kept busy. You know, not every day, but at least some months, I'll take those classes, and--which was good, you know? At least I'll learn the basic tailoring which I don't use now. 00:29:39.600 --> 00:29:46.200 [AT]: So then, what year did you get married, again? 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.000 [PC]: 1963 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:54.900 [AT]: OK. Could you, maybe describe that process, and meeting your husband? 00:29:54.900 --> 00:30:25.500 [PC]: Oh it was an arranged marriage. In fact, before my mother died in ’61, she had this, my husband, in her mind that she will marry me to him. So she--but she died in ‘61. But she had expressed her wishes to, you know, my aunts and uncles that “He’s--he will be good. He’s the educated one.” 00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:54.900 Because in the community I was born, they were mostly business community. And they didn't go to college. Even my two brothers who joined the family business they never even went for one year of college. Just after their high school they went to Nigeria, and joined the business. So--and my mother knew that I'm the one who just want--is for studying. 00:30:54.900 --> 00:31:17.300 And here my husband, who was in engineering, at that time. Engineering College. So she knew that he could be the right match for me. Not the businessman, like, you know, her sons and--So, okay, so she passed away. 00:31:17.300 --> 00:31:48.800 But then my brothers and my aunts, they kind of started the process, that “Okay, now we will have you married to this man.” And even in his family they were all businessmen. All his brothers and everybody was in business. He was the only one who went for higher education like, became an engineer he was. So, I think that maybe we were a good match. **chuckles** 00:31:48.800 --> 00:31:54.100 [AT]: And, so the year that you were actually married was sixty--? 00:31:54.100 --> 00:31:54.600 [PC]: 3 00:31:54.600 --> 00:31:56.100 [AT]: 3. Okay. 00:31:56.100 --> 00:32:01.200 [PC]: July. In fact, we have our anniversary coming up on 31st. 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.700 [AT]: Oh wow. Congratulations. 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:07.300 [PC]: We’ll be married, 53 years? I think, yeah. 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:16.700 [AT]: Wow. Um...so--and, it’s Hashu? 00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:17.200 [PC]: Yeah 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:18.600 [AT]: Hashu is your husband 00:32:18.600 --> 00:32:28.600 [PC]: He didn’t want to come for interview **laughs**. I know you suggested. Even Dorothy suggested. She knows him. She--we meet so many places. 00:32:28.600 --> 00:32:38.300 [AT]: Um, so early on do you--what are your memories of him? Like the beginnings and— 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:59.000 [PC]: Okay. So since it was arranged marriage, and that was July ’63. So right away after we got married he started the proc--because he was already here. In ’61, he came to the States to do his Master's in Engineering. 00:32:59.000 --> 00:32:59.200 [AT]: Where? 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:29.100 [PC]: He had done, he had done Bachelor’s in Engineering in India. So he came to University of Minnesota, in 1961. So--and he finished, yeah, he was very, you know, fast. He finished his Master’s in one year only. And so that means he finishes in ‘62. And found the job in Chicago. 00:33:29.100 --> 00:34:03.100 And he worked until--for one year--’62 to ’63. Saved enough money to come to India to, you know?, get married. That's how then we got married in ’63. So he-—okay--He saved enough. and we started the process of, you know, passport and visa and everything. 00:34:03.100 --> 00:34:23.400 And he was still on student visa even though he was working whatever were the, you know, laws then. So he could apply for my visa to this--coming here on basis of his student visa. So that's how—- 00:34:22.600 --> 00:34:25.700 [AT]: Since you were his wife then-— 00:34:24.200 --> 00:34:54.000 [PC]: Oh yeah, as a spouse, yeah. So it took about three months? Let’s see, July’s gone. August, September, middle of, mid of October. It took that many--that much it takes of course time to--So that’s when I came here with him. And he had also saved in that one year, enough money to go on our honeymoon in Europe, you know? 00:34:51.000 --> 00:35:20.600 [PC]: So he bought those tickets. You know, which was hard to do, you know, with that kind of salary. But he did. And, so he did--we did five stops to be honest before reaching New York and Chicago. First was Beirut, Rome, Paris, London, New York. 00:35:20.600 --> 00:35:27.200 He said that is our little delayed honeymoon. 2 months later, yeah! **laughs** 00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:31.000 [AT]: It’s almost like five honeymoons, going to all those different places 00:35:29.500 --> 00:35:40.800 [PC]: **laughs** Yeah. So, then we first reached New York on October 25th, or something I think. And-- 00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:43.000 [AT]: So, New York was your first stop in the US? 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:51.700 [PC]: Yes. That was just because the flight, you know, comes to New York. Then we just connected to Chicago 00:35:51.700 --> 00:35:53.400 [AT]: Ok. So you didn’t spend any time-- 00:35:53.400 --> 00:36:23.600 [PC]: Just two days because, since we were there, wanted to see New York also. We saw all the other countries, so. So then we came to Chicago. And we are here, since then. Happily ever after *both laugh*. We didn't go, try to move out of Chicago anytime. Then will come the next step when we came here. 00:36:23.600 --> 00:36:42.600 I...thought I will come here and maybe try to study further, you know. But I got pregnant right away **chuckling** That means three months after I got married, I got pregnant. 00:36:42.600 --> 00:36:44.400 [AT]: So in October? 00:36:44.400 --> 00:37:07.100 [PC]: Must have missed October (inaudible) yeah. So, on--So, actually my daughter, my first child, she was born two days after our first anniversary on August 2nd. So there went my studying further **chuckles**. 00:37:07.100 --> 00:37:19.200 [AT]: Do you--can we talk about your first impressions of the US? I guess New York was your first introduction? 00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:48.900 [PC]: Yeah. I think, of course, even in those days we used to see the Hollywood movies in India. And being from a big city, you know there are people here who have come from rural areas who haven't seen, you know, big cities. So I know lot of people ask me that, I tell them I was not shocked. 00:37:48.900 --> 00:38:15.600 There was no cultural shock or something, because I had seen good life in Bombay. I had seen car. I had seen a refrigerator. I had seen all these things in Bombay’s, you know--We used live in, near, Bombay’s skyline, near the ocean. So, not too much. Even the summer, Lake Shore Drive and I come to Chicago. 00:38:15.600 --> 00:38:51.200 First time we drive through Lake Shore Drive, I tell my husband, “Oh this is like Bombay’s Marine Drive,” you know? That is same like, you know, at the ocean, here it is the beach. You know, lake. So, there were some new things, but the other thing was, of course, then when I'm here-—in India I didn't even raise a finger to do any housework or anything. My family well, had you know, helpers 00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:51.800 [AT]: Well-off 00:38:51.200 --> 00:39:02.500 [PC]: Yeah. 3, 4. One was cook, one was cleaner, one washes clothes, one does--So, here, of course first thing--First of all the apartment was one bedroom. 00:39:02.500 --> 00:39:03.700 [AT]: In Chicago? 00:39:03.700 --> 00:39:36.000 [PC]: Chicago. And one bedroom, furnished. That’s what we could afford, you know. 
So that, I kind of felt, you know, cooped up and--But, I, I was not like complaining or anything, at least I has--I was in a nice civilized country. But yes, other things, yeah, and I didn’t know how to even make rice. **laughs** 00:39:36.000 --> 00:40:04.800 Then, well, my husband will think he knows because he lived one year as a bachelor. So he will tell me things, which I think nowadays, I tell him, “How, how could you tell me to cook like that? That was wrong” *laughs* Anyway, but yeah. That was the thing that I was disappointed at. “Oh I have to do here everything. I have to clean the tub, I have to clean the bathroom.” You know? 00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:13.500 [AT]: How about culturally, like how was the shift to American culture? Was that very different or shocking or were— 00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:43.500 [PC]: See, when my husband was a student at University of Minnesota, there they had these good programs, you know. Brother-sister program and the families that will--So first of all, even before coming here to Minnesota he was introduced to this one girl, Margaret Twentymen, her name was, you know? And they kind of connect them as brother and sisters. 00:40:43.500 --> 00:41:04.400 So she used to contact my husband in India before he came, and prepared him for so many things in this country. And when he was there they will take him to so many places. And, they’ll take him to church, they'll take him to TV, golfing. 00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:24.700 So he kind of learned, you know, experienced everything. With three families, he was introduced. So here, when I came...let’s see, yeah, in the same building, the apartment we got. 00:41:24.700 --> 00:41:25.800 [AT]: Where was it? 00:41:25.800 --> 00:42:00.200 [PC]: It was Kenmore and Bryn Mawr, near the lake kind, you know? Actually, yeah, my daughter was born in that small apartment too. So, in that same building, it just so happened there was another Indian couple. Who were there, you know. She was also a master’s student. Her husband was working and there were few things if I didn't know she will tell me how, because she was here before me. 00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:03.900 [AT]: Do you know when she had arrived? How much sooner? 00:42:03.600 --> 00:42:32.500 [PC]: Yeah. This was in ’63. She said about a year-and-a-half before me, so. She was a very educated, you know. She was very much--and she really helped me. And also, my husband knew a couple from Bangladesh. The husband was with my husband in Minnesota. 00:42:32.500 --> 00:43:07.100 So his wife, also, she also was telling me that, “Oh this is the way it happens here.” Because she was here a year before me. And then, yes, one family who used to--even my very first Thanksgiving. You know, because I came in October, then this November. Okay. The family my husband knew in Minnesota, her sister used to live in Chicago with her four children. 00:43:07.100 --> 00:43:28.000 So she invited us for the very first, you know, Thanksgiving. A, what? Month after I came, about. And we didn't even have a car. So I remember I wore a sari **laughs** on the train. They lived in South Side about 111th Street. 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.500 [AT]: Wow, that’s pretty far. 00:43:30.500 --> 00:44:03.100 [PC]: Well, yeah! And November. Can you imagine me in sari *laughs* in November? But, yeah. So, every year then it became that Thanksgiving and Christmas, they will invite us. These people were very nice, friendly. They really took good care of us. So we will go there and even the children, when people will ask them “Oh so what are you going to do for Christmas?” 00:44:03.100 --> 00:44:34.700 They will say, “We are going to McDonald’s.” Their name was McDonald's family *laughs* So people think, “On Christmas, you’re going to go to McDonald’s?” And they’ll say, “No! The McDonald family.” ...Yeah, so, I think because I was exposed to these things through these families so not much--there must be little which maybe I don't remember--cultural shock. But, yeah, but on the train also, you know? 00:44:34.700 --> 00:44:58.800 My husband will tell me, “Be careful. Don't talk to people,” you know? Even in those days, you know? People can--and I didn't know I will wear some of my jewelry and things. He said, “Well, don’t wear it. Just put it in purse when we reach their house then take it out and put it on.” 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:04.800 [AT]: So at that time there were some Indian families but not—-not too many. 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:23.800 [PC]: Not ma—-No, I’ll tell you. There were only 250 Indians then **laughs**. And we--and they celebrated—-we didn’t have much of these, like, FIA and AIA and all these things. 00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:26.400 [AT]: And what are those, what does that stand for? 00:45:26.200 --> 00:45:47.500 [PC]: Oh, FIA. Does anyone want? Federation of Indian Associations. And AIA is Association of Indians in America. They kind of fight with each other now, you know, always everybody wants power. 00:45:47.500 --> 00:45:48.000 [AT]: Sure. 00:45:48.000 --> 00:46:18.400 [PC]: Yeah. So we will just meet as few friends, you know, at each other's house and do the, like, Indian Diwali. And it was so nice you know the Bangladeshi, they will do their Eid, you know, Muslims. And then we'll go eat together and yeah. It was more like a cosmopolitan group here. 00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:42.100 Nowadays it is--now I know, I don't even know how many Indians we are here. Thousands....Some things I might have jumped from your, order 00:46:35.200 --> 00:47:04.500 [AT]: So...No this is, this is all perfect. I think we’ve covered pretty much the basic, biographical stuff. One thing I wanted to ask was--so how long before moving to the US did you know you would be moving? Was it as soon as the marriage was arranged? 00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:20.700 [PC]: Yes. Not marr--as soon as my husband came here in ‘61 for his master’s. So that means two years before. Because we were engaged kind of, for a long time. 00:47:20.700 --> 00:47:29.200 [AT]: Okay. And, after you had moved was there anything that you really missed about India? Or-- 00:47:29.200 --> 00:47:36.000 [PC]: Yeah, family. And, and like I said, all the household help we had there. But—- 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:46.400 [AT]: Would you say—or, what was the biggest difference? Was it the, the living situation? 00:47:46.400 --> 00:48:19.300 [PC]: Yeah, like I said, there I was in a big house. Here, it was a small, furnished apartment and it was older building. The older tub kind and thing--Naturally that's what we could-—And in those days the pay scale, of course, expenses were less too. My husband even though an engineer, he used to make a, what? $500 a month, **laughing** you know. Which we know, nowadays it is not even peanuts. 00:48:19.300 --> 00:48:49.100 But then, yeah, so. But I still say that I don't know how he managed it, and, you know, Europe and everything. But I wasn't, you know, demanding wife. I could see he was working hard. And I knew it was nearby. You know at Bryn Mawr--you know Bryn Mawr and Kenmore area? You know. So, and how many months I had to really be lonely. I used to feel lonely. 00:48:49.100 --> 00:49:08.800 But I had one Indian in the building and another, that Bangladeshi, about three blocks away. So, I will walk to them. We’ll do something. I will go to my grocery--We didn’t have car for two years since we lived in the city and he worked downtown. 00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:09.900 [AT]: Just the train-— 00:49:09.900 --> 00:49:24.900 [PC]: Yeah, from that, you know, Bryn Mawr train he would take? And go, so. And weekends sometimes, if we wanted to do some things far, we will just rent the car for the weekend and do things. 00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:27.500 [AT]: So what kind of things would you do for fun? 00:49:27.500 --> 00:50:08.200 [PC]: Oh to see Chica--like we will go, sometimes we go to Lake Geneva, sometimes you know. Of course, Brookfield Zoo, Baha'i Temple we will--whatever he knew, you know, he wanted. And it was fun. But—-so it was only, what? October to August 2nd she's born, so that means July. Not too many months. First with pregnancy, I was sick and things, you know? So those two, three months went like that. Then-—these were the things and of course the lake was so close by. 00:50:08.200 --> 00:50:31.100 We would just walk to the beach and do things. And he eventually, of course, had to work two jobs, too. Since, then, we could see that I cannot work. Soon I would have a baby. So, he also took another job to make the ends meet. 00:50:31.100 --> 00:50:49.400 First he was alone, now we were two, and we had to do things, so he did. But he never told me that “Oh, we are tight.” And in those days I was not nosy enough to go and look into his checkbook that, what’s the balance and all that thing. 00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:52.700 [AT]: And how long were you in that apartment for? 00:50:52.700 --> 00:51:18.100 [PC]: In that apartment, yeah. I’ll tell you, we were there for a while. Let’s see, my daughter was born there. She was...two, that means we were about three years there. Then we moved to another apartment, because this one was one bedroom where she was born. Then we-— 00:51:18.100 --> 00:51:19.300 [AT]: What’s her name, your daughter? 00:51:19.300 --> 00:51:20.100 [PC]: Anita. 00:51:20.100 --> 00:51:20.600 [AT]: Anita. 00:51:20.600 --> 00:51:24.900 [PC]: Mhmm. Dorothy knows her because she's into acting, my daughter. 00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.700 [AT]: I’ve heard. 00:51:25.700 --> 00:51:40.600 [PC]: So...in fact, she has been filming a movie. Some indie movie, you know? Kind of. Yeah. So, what was I going to say? 00:51:42.200 --> 00:51:43.500 [AT]: The apartment, the second apartment 00:51:42.900 --> 00:52:11.600 [PC]: Apartment. Second apartment. That was two-bedroom. That was also old building, but it was more roomy, it was on Lakewood and Sheridan, near Sheridan Road. Like 6700 North, it was, about. So we have been just jump--hopping, like, 5500 North to 67. 00:52:11.600 --> 00:52:26.100 There also we were far. It was until ’70, ’70 we were there. Then son was born in ’68. My second child. 00:52:26.100 --> 00:52:27.900 [AT]: Mhmm. And what’s his name? 00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:29.900 [PC]: Raj. Raj. 00:52:29.900 --> 00:52:30.700 [AT]: How do you spell that? 00:52:30.700 --> 00:52:32.550 [PC]: R a j. Raj. 00:52:32.550 --> 00:52:33.500 [AT]: Raj 00:52:33.500 --> 00:53:05.400 [PC]: Yeah. He’s the one who lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He has two girls and he is a cardiologist. Yeah, people say, “How do you communicate with two children. One with doctor, one other is actress. How does it happen?” I say, “Well, this way I have advantage. I am learning both, about both the fields.” Yeah. That’s good. Yeah, they are both good children. So anyway, so he was born in ‘68. 00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:40.000 After that, in ‘70, I moved to Jarvis and Sheridan. So we have been always kind of in the North side within 5 miles. There also we were far-—let’s see, until ’74--let me see. ’70--Anyway, then we went into two-family building. The landlords lived down the stairs. 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:43.800 [AT]: This is at Jarvis? The, this is at Jarvis? 00:53:43.600 --> 00:54:11.500 [PC]: Jarvis, yeah. 1435. That was also near the station, Jarv--See my husband, since his work was always downtown, we tried to find the places near the, you know, trains. So, those were nice landlords. They live downstairs. It was a huge 3-bedroom, one dining, one living, two porches, front, back, breakfast nook. 00:54:11.500 --> 00:54:36.400 I loved that place because it was bigger than my current house, but only thing was it was also getting old. And after that, we bought this one where we are. We bought it in ‘74 and we are there for all these years. 42 years. Yeah, mhmm. 00:54:36.400 --> 00:55:04.500 [AT]: Um...So especially post-1965, with the change of immigration law in the US, there are a lot more immigrants from India coming into Chicago. Do you remember, and especially since you're on the North side so close to the Devon area—- 00:55:03.100 --> 00:55:06.500 [PC]: Yeah. At that time, Devon wasn’t much, you know? 00:55:06.500 --> 00:55:09.000 [AT]: Right. It was mostly the 70’s I think? 00:55:07.700 --> 00:55:41.000 [PC]: There were--Yeah. See, there was India Sari Palace. There is one. And Patel Brothers. Those two were the first two Indian businesses on Devon. I even remember, so. But most people started coming in ‘68, ‘69, that I know of. And everybody started in Chicago's North side— 00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:46.100 [AT]: Did you notice that change? Or that more Indians were coming? 00:55:45.400 --> 00:56:15.500 [PC]: Oh yeah, especially, if they were nearby, you know? We will get in touch and, among our friends, even up to now, they always say “You are the first one, you are the one who guided us and,” you know, “welcomed us to this country.” And we are still friends, lot of them that came in that time period, we--you know. 00:56:15.500 --> 00:56:30.000 And there was a change, you know. I was the one who was driving, so they were new, I will drive them here, I will drive them there. And they still appreciate, and we are still friends, lot of them. Though, everyone has moved out **laughs**. Some-— 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:31.200 [AT]: To the suburbs, or? 00:56:31.200 --> 00:56:45.600 [PC]: Yeah. Now some in South Barrington, Elmhurst, Oak Brook. They say, “You are the one who was here first, and you are still there.” I say, “Well, I'm happy with what I am.” **laughs** 00:56:45.600 --> 00:56:52.800 [AT]: And, did you work when you came to Chicago at all? 00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:55.800 [PC]: First, right away I couldn't because I had a baby 00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:56.400 [AT]: Right, right. 00:56:56.400 --> 00:57:24.800 [PC]: Ok. And even then when my son was born and he was about 2 years old, I always wanted to. But I didn't want to leave the children at that young age. So when he was 2 years old, I started working in a bank on weekends, you know. And then, in those days there was one big bank, Continental Bank. 00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:44.400 Which is now I think, Harris? Or I don't know. So I used to work there on weekends. They had, you know, this business kind of, wholesale accounts, you know, businesses. So those checks and things had to be processed, you know? All the time. 00:57:43.600 --> 00:57:45.400 [AT]: And was, was that near your home? 00:57:45.400 --> 00:58:14.800 [PC]: No, downtown. I used to take the train. And since the weekends, my husband could take care of the children at home, so I did. But I did about couple of years those weekends, so, then, that was it. After that, serious? In between then I would do, since I had children, I would also babysit, you know? In the neighborhood? 00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:48.000 Somebody had-—there was one, she had two girls. She would leave them before going to work. And, yeah. So this way at least I had little bit of my spending money. And so I used to babysit--that. And, even when my children were going to school, when I was on Jarvis, there was another school girl her mother will leave her with me then, she and my children will walk to school together and—- 00:58:48.000 --> 00:59:18.800 So those were two babysitting jobs. And also the landlady who used to live downstairs, her son was my son’s age. They were always together playing. Anyway they were playing, but this, my landlady says, “No I would want to pay you while I'm at work,” even though they’re always playing together, either her house or my house. So then she would pay me, too, for the babysitting. 00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:39.800 And, seriously, I started working--And before that, in between I will do this, then not like it, then leave it. And seriously I started working in 1978, when my daughter started high school. 00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:42.100 [AT]: Where did she go to high school? Where did-— 00:59:41.700 --> 01:00:11.900 [PC]: Mather. Here. You know Mather High School? Yeah. They both went there. From our house there was this California bus they would take to--But they say, “You will not let us go on the bus. You will always say that you want to drive us.” I say “I'm sure you appreciate it.” You know in good, bad weather and thing. And then they’re always running late. This way they didn't have to wait for the buses and things. 01:00:11.900 --> 01:00:41.400 So, okay then ‘78 I started working seriously. That means my son was still 10. She was 14 when she started high school. And, yeah, there was--that also, company was so nearby, if they will get locked out, they will just call me from neighbor's house “Oh, we are locked out of the house, so can you come?” So I will come home. Yeah. 01:00:41.400 --> 01:01:10.600 It was a mail-order company I used to work for. Only four blocks away from my house, you know? But I used to drive. So, that was the first job I had for four years. And my serious job was at Allstate Insurance. Where I worked 15 years. Got promo—- 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:11.300 [AT]: What did you do there? 01:01:11.300 --> 01:01:41.500 [PC]: I was into claims processing. I used to process the claims when people will call, you know. Find out, you know, their policies and things, whether they are eligible for the claim or not. I was in touch with them, the cust-—I mean, customers, and the other insurance companies, or the other underwriters and everything, you know. So that's where I'm getting my retirement from **laughs**. 01:01:41.500 --> 01:02:10.300 After that, also, when that company moved, Allstate moved that function to Virginia, in ’93. Then I, first I was temping, but then I found a job at a medical billing company. There also, I worked, eight years. But I get my retirement from Allstate Insurance. 01:02:10.300 --> 01:02:18.500 [AT]: Um, did you become a US citizen? Or get your citizenship somewhere along--? 01:02:18.500 --> 01:02:41.400 [PC]: Let me see. ’75 about I think I became a citizen in-—First I used to say, “Oh, I'm Indian I want to retain my Indian citizenship,” you know. But then, I thought, “I'm not going back if I haven't gone back in so many years” you know, 12 years. So-- 01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:49.600 [AT]: When, before you moved, did you ever think that you would be coming back or did you see it as a permanent move? 01:02:49.600 --> 01:03:14.100 [PC]: No. Very beginning, you know, when I came here, as a wife, I thought, “Okay, we'll be here only two, three years. And move back to India.” Until then, I thought, “Ok we will move back, that will be good.” But then, as you go, and the life goes on, you know you are not going back. You are better off here. **laughs** 01:03:14.100 --> 01:03:17.200 [AT]: Did you visit India? 01:03:17.200 --> 01:03:33.500 [PC]: In the beginning we used to visit every four years or something. Four year, six year but then this last time I went in 2010. Then I went after 15 years. 01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:35.800 [AT]: That was the first time, after 15 years? 01:03:35.800 --> 01:04:04.200 [PC]: That was the, that was first time after 15 years. Before that I used to go four, five years, yeah. I think with time, you know, you kind of lose, your families are gone, or...things, you know. With children--first children were little, we’ll drag them along, then they didn't want to go, you know. Because living conditions, even-- 01:04:04.200 --> 01:04:35.300 If I could find it hard after this many years here to live, you know, so I didn't blame them, children. They didn’t—-and then, my husband's family was in a, well, smaller city. I wouldn't say town. That was smaller than Bombay. So, there, they were not really happy to go, my children. 01:04:35.300 --> 01:04:51.800 Even Bombay they were not happy to go, because it is humid and hot. But they used to get lot of love from my husband's family there. So that's the part they would like it when they were younger. But then, you know. 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:54.400 [AT]: And, where was your husband's family from? 01:04:54.400 --> 01:05:10.100 [PC]: That town, small city, is called Kolhapur. Have you heard Pune? No. No. It is in the same state of Maharashtra, where Bombay is. So it is in the same st-- 01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:13.400 [AT]: Is that mid, um, like middle-state? 01:05:12.250 --> 01:05:28.500 [PC]: South—-Yeah. No, see Bombay is in the west part of India, hm? So this is, little south of that Bombay, but in that state of Maharashtra. 01:05:28.300 --> 01:05:43.200 [AT]: ...And, so you said, um, that for a while you didn't feel the need to get citizenship in the US? 01:05:43.200 --> 01:06:16.900 [PC]: Yeah, I thought-—I just-—if I have green card, I don't need to be citizen, I used to think. And actually, then I applied for citizenship when my sister wanted to come to this country. So that, you know, like, she was in India. And she wanted to come to the States. So as, you know, sister I could have sponsored her. So that's what prompted me, to become—- 01:06:15.300 --> 01:06:20.000 [AT]: I see. So she came around, the late 70’s 01:06:19.100 --> 01:06:39.600 [PC]:’77. I got, you know, in those days we used to get the citizenship, you know, fast enough **laughs**. And the children didn't need they already--And my husband actually got it even after I--he also didn't want to become citizen. 01:06:39.600 --> 01:07:06.700 He says, “Okay, at least one person can remain Indian citizen.” So he wanted to remain Indian citizen. Not that his, from his family, anybody wanted to come. But later he saw the benefits of, you know, he wouldn't have to stand in line at the immigration, he would--You know all those things. Then he used to say, “Oh why I’m just punishing myself?” **laughs** 01:07:06.700 --> 01:07:25.600 [AT]: Um...So was he, was he here on a work visa, technically? If for all that time that-- 01:07:25.600 --> 01:07:50.200 [PC]: No, not--Until then, see afterwards, after the student visa, the company he was working for, they applied for his green card. Yeah. So, that was--He got the green card through that place who sponsored, yeah. 01:07:56.700 --> 01:08:17.600 [AT]: ...And, um. So, did you see--did you feel a part of any kind of community in Chicago? Or did you branch out? I saw somewhere online that you and your husband were involved in the Sindhi Association? 01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:49.900 [PC]: We were the founders of that, yeah. In ’65, that means two years after I also came and then there were, we were only, 30 Sindhis. Not even 30 then, in ’65. One day, you know, we used to meet at each other’s houses, wherever we were. So 15 to 20 people is mostly his coll—-not colleagues, the students who came from the same university from Bombay 01:08:49.100 --> 01:08:50.600 [AT]: Minnesota...Oh! 01:08:50.600 --> 01:09:22.900 [PC]: And then couple of them from Minnesota. So we used to meet, you know, we had nothing else to do so. We will meet, have dinners, everybody brings a dish. And most of them, except one, they were all bachelors. So there was only one couple, before us. And we were the second couple, then there were eight about bachelors. So we say, “Hey,” just from fun we said, “Oh we are a Sindhi Association.” 01:09:22.900 --> 01:09:43.100 And that’s how the Sindhi Association, and then we were three officers and all that. And since then, it has grown. We even celebrated 50 years of the Sindhi Association. And we are, you know we are very active still. Very active, yeah. 01:09:43.100 --> 01:10:01.100 ‘Cause new people come, we kind of guide them. There are people who don't know much about here, or they want to know how are the neighborhoods, how they want to live in Chicago, then they'll pick some neighborhood. We said, “No not there, that’s not safe,” you know. Yeah, we-- 01:10:01.100 --> 01:10:07.700 [AT]: So it sounds like it started as a social organization, or-- 01:10:07.700 --> 01:10:37.800 [PC]: Yeah. Social group, the Sindhi As—-Then from 15, we became 30, and that's when we really thought that, about time. So, and let me see, when did we incorporate it in the city? I don’t—-those numbers, my husband has. He’s more activ--He’s their banking things and all applied for not-for-profit organization and everything. 01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:47.600 So our association--so you found it, it is called Sindhi Association of Metropolitan Chicago. 01:10:53.700 --> 01:10:58.500 [AT]: ...Were there any other organizations or groups that you became involved with or? 01:10:58.500 --> 01:11:24.400 [PC]: Yeah. There were these Indian organizations. And yes, and we cannot just stick to Sindhis, yeah. And, this--like I said, Federation of Indian Associations, we were. And then when they started fighting among themselves, we got out. We said we have to unite, you know? The Indians. 01:11:24.400 --> 01:11:46.600 And that way other, lot of other groups, but not necessarily the associations. we are involved in. Also, the Hindi, you know, like the Indian national language? Hindi? There is an organization Hindi Lovers Club. I’m active in that also and—- 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:56.900 [AT]: What are some of the things that you do for those organizations, or how do you stay involved? Like volunteering? Or? 01:11:56.900 --> 01:12:28.900 [PC]: Yeah, nowadays, you know, after really being working so much into organizations, I tell them, “I’ll volunteer, what suits me.” I don't want to take any responsibility, you know. This is long enough that, in fact, this year that means last year when we had the Sindhi Association’s elections, you know, we chose all the young members of the executive committee. 01:12:28.900 --> 01:12:57.700 And then otherwise, we used—-still run, you know, do all the work. So when we elected them, they said, “We will love to do the work, but we don't want any interference from the older group” like us. They say, “When we need advice, we’ll take. But we want to do things new way” and which is good, you know. 01:12:57.700 --> 01:13:28.100 First of all, they are all so much into technology and this. They can do so many well, faster than we could do on the computer. So now the whole group is from the younger, younger generation. 40’s, you know, so yeah. But we are there still, you know, advising them. Today also, I got two emails from them “We want to do this, what do you think?” and all that, you know. 01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:31.300 We have a picnic, you want to come to our Sindhi Picnic? 01:13:31.300 --> 01:13:32.300 [AT]: Yeah. 01:13:32.300 --> 01:13:35.800 [PC]: Come and, you know, see our things 01:13:35.200 --> 01:13:36.000 [AT]: Yeah! Absolutely 01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:39.200 [PC]: This may help you in your, some research. 01:13:38.500 --> 01:13:39.500 [AT]: Sure, when is it? 01:13:39.500 --> 01:13:40.700 [PC]: It is this Sunday. 01:13:40.700 --> 01:13:41.400 [AT]: Okay. 01:13:41.400 --> 01:13:57.500 [PC]: And, I’ll send you the, forward, you that--it is Herrick Lake, you know? It is, it is in the western--let’s see, not Naperv—Wheaton. Wheaton suburb? Have you heard? 01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:58.000 [AT]: Wheaton, Ok. 01:13:57.700 --> 01:14:02.700 [PC]: Wheaton? Western suburb. And there's a lake, Herrick Lake. 01:14:02.700 --> 01:14:05.200 [AT]: Ok, yes and send me details. 01:14:05.200 --> 01:14:07.900 [PC]: I will forward you the whole thing. 01:14:07.900 --> 01:14:09.100 [AT]: Oh thank you. 01:14:09.700 --> 01:14:26.300 [PC]: Yeah, it will be good, you will get some, you know, first-hand, you know, observation of it. Yeah. It is from 12 to 5, Well, you can come as my guest it is $18 per person. There's going to be food and everything 01:14:26.300 --> 01:14:30.600 [AT]: Did you do any kind of preparations for the event, for the picnic? 01:14:30.600 -> 01:15:00.800 [PC]: For the picnic? I have, they have been asking me a few things, that “what you did in the past” and this. And I have so many of their inventory at my home, because this is their first year, first picnic. So I told them, “I have still so many things with me from the Association. And I'm going to bring it to you. Then from now on, one of you--” I said, “I have taken care of the things for such a long-—whether I was on committee or not, but I will be--” 01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:29.700 They say, “Oh, because you are the mother of the Association.” And I really felt that others are just losing the things. I said, “Okay, I'll bring the things at the event, then I'll take it back.” But now, the new president I told her--she's a doctor--I told her, “Okay, you take responsibility from now on. The way I took care of these Association things. You know it’s the property of--She said--she calls me “auntie”—- 01:15:29.700 --> 01:15:42.100 “Auntie, don't worry I will take--as long as I'm on this committee, I will take care of it.” So I told her, “But I took care of it, whether I was on committee, or not!” **laughs** 01:15:42.100 --> 01:15:50.500 [AT]: And why has it been important to you to be involved in those kinds of organizations? 01:15:49.900 --> 01:16:18.900 [PC]: Because, it has taken such effort to bring it to this level, even up to 10 years back, to the level of what it is. So don't want to, you know, lose the momentum. We tell them, it is important, and to be honest, my daughter, who was Association, Sindhi Association’s child kind of thing. 01:16:18.900 --> 01:16:46.900 She was the first child in the group and she still remembers “Oh we used—-I used to enjoy going to Sindhi picnics, Sindhi Diwali, I look forward for,” you know because she was a baby since, you know? She has been. So now, she has five-year-old twins, and she says, “I want them to feel the part of this belonging to a group.” 01:16:46.900 --> 01:17:13.000 She says--and she being a writer and acting and all that--she says, “It is so important, for the children, to feel that they belong to some group. Because” she says, “Americans at--” you know, “They belong to their churches. They belong to this, and I want my children to belong.” Dorothy knows she, Anita, has twins you know. 01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:15.000 [AT]: Do you feel similarly? 01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:46.100 [PC]: Yes. Yes. If she is agreed. If she was not for it, I would say, “Okay she's the mother. I cannot force her what her children should do.” But she herself is like that. Otherwise she, she had children late. And, she did it by surrogacy. So, she's now what, 51? 52? And she has just five-year-olds. 01:17:46.100 --> 01:18:18.900 So I would say--And before that she would never come to-—you know, she kind of felt odd. All the others, her group are younger than her, they had children and they were bringing their children to Sindhi picnics, Sindhi Diwali and all that. And she was coming alone. So she didn't come much. But now in these five years, I noticed, she has started coming back, because she wants her children to have the sense of belonging. 01:18:18.900 --> 01:18:37.900 [AT]: And, how do you--you have such an interesting and sort of mixed background. So how do you personally identify yourself, I guess, like, between nationality and ethnicity? 01:18:37.900 --> 01:18:50.000 [PC]: Ethnicity we cannot hide of course. Nationality? When people say--I say, “I am American.” I’ve been here double the time of my life, than I had been in India! I've been here now 52--’63 to this--53 years. Even my daughter, of course, she's born here, when some of the writers meetings and things they 01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:34.300 have, you know, they have to introduce themselves, who they are. Some will say I'm from here and there. She will say “Well, I'm from Chicago.” She wouldn't say, “I’m from India, I’m from--”she says “I’m from Chicago because I'm born here.” She says “Why should it be that I'm from India? Of course I'm-- 01:19:34.300 --> 01:20:05.700 “My parents are from India, but I'm not from India.” So her, I know she thinks differently than so many people being in writing. She has written two, three plays which did good in Chicago. Now she's stopped the plays because that takes away too much of her time. And with these kids, you know, she says “I have to make a commitment of three months of rehearsals and this.” 01:20:05.700 --> 01:20:35.700 So she just does some, she was in US Bank commercial on TV. Her poster is in Walgreens, you know, she’s a pharmacist. So she says, “Those one and two days’ work is okay. But I don't want to make a commitment of three months of rehearsals.” Yeah so, people ask me, I say, “I was from India but now I'm American.” 01:20:35.700 --> 01:20:47.800 [AT]: And, do you still hold on to your Indian heritage? Or, or how would--how does that happen on a daily basis that your-- 01:20:47.800 --> 01:21:13.500 [PC]: Daily basis of course two, three times a week I will cook Indian. Otherwise, you know, anything I’ll cook. And at home we speak Sindhi, myself and my husband. With the children of course, even if I speak Sindhi they will reply in English. They cannot talk much. 01:21:13.500 --> 01:21:14.600 [AT]: They understand? 01:21:14.600 --> 01:21:45.400 [PC]: They understand. And these little ones—-My son doesn’t understand much, to be honest. My daughter does, I think because she’s in a field where she has to, you know, these acting and writing. And, these little ones when myself and my husband, we are talking talking, they’ll say, “What are you talking? Is that Sindhi?” They know that we speak Sindhi. Otherwise, let’s see. 01:21:45.400 --> 01:22:07.600 The Indian clothes, sari. I haven’t worn a sari in maybe, 20 years. But I wear that salwar, you know the-—and, so only Indian clothes I will wear maybe when I go to temple, and Diwali. 01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:37.400 [AT]: ...So, I think we could probably be wrapping up, um. I have some concluding questions that I can ask, um. 01:22:37.400 --> 01:22:54.600 Were there any memories or experiences that you would like future generations to know about? Or any kind of messages that you would want to pass down? 01:22:54.600 --> 01:23:23.700 [PC]: Messages? It’s a good question. **laughs** ...Can not really think of something. I will just say, “Be, be a nice human-being. 01:23:23.700 --> 01:23:46.800 “Whether you are Indian, or American, wherever you live you don't have to just change yourself to please others. So if it, if it is working out for you, being an Indian, remain an Indian. Otherwise, move with the times and the place.” 01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:51.900 [AT]: Okay, Padma, well thank-you so much for your time and for-- 01:23:51.900 --> 01:23:52.800 [PC]: No, thank you! 01:23:52.200 --> 01:24:02.900 [AT]: participating in this project. All of these stories, I think they’re very invaluable and will be able to be used for years to come, so. 01:24:02.900 --> 01:24:07.800 [PC]: And I'm sorry I had to cancel, other--you know, when I was not here. **laughs** 01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:11.900 [AT]: Oh no, that’s not a problem. But thank you so much. 01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:14.900 [PC]: Okay, thank you.