WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:31.000 [JOEL GONZALEZ]: This interview is being conducted as part of the Indo-American Heritage Museum's Masala chat Oral History project. The interview is being conducted on December 13th 2016 at 6:00 o’clock at Virbala Desai’s residence. Virbala Desai is being interviewed by Joel Gonzalez as part of the Indo-American Heritage Museum. Please state and spell your first and last name. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:42.700 [VIRBALA DESAI]: Virbala Desai  V-I-R-B-A-L-A   D-E-S-A-I. 00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:47.900 [JG]: Thank you. When and where were you born? 00:00:47.900 --> 00:01:00.300 [VD]: I was born in Mumbai, India. It was December 13, 1937. 00:01:02.300 --> 00:01:04.700 [JG]: What languages did you speak growing up?  00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:08.200 [VD]: Gujarati. 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:12.700 [JG]: Was that the only language that you...and?  00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.500 [VD]: And English, of course. Yeah.  00:01:13.800 --> 00:01:16.300 [JG]: Okay. English mostly at schools, right? 00:01:16.300 --> 00:01:23.100 [VD]: Yeah, right. Well, English, but at home, Gujarati. And schools English, and Hindi also.  00:01:23.100 --> 00:01:24.000 [JG]: And Hindi also? 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:24.400 [VD]: Yeah. 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:27.900 [JG]: When was your first exposure to English? 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:30.800 [VD]: When I was in kindergarten.  00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:39.200 [JG]: Kindergarten? Okay, oh wow. Um...was Mumbai, when you were growing up, that was where you, most of your--? 00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:40.700 [VD]: I was born and brought up in Mumbai.  00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:42.200 [JG]: And you went to school there as well?  00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:48.500 [VD]: I went to school there also, college also there. So in Mumbai. 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:52.600 [JG]: Okay. Did your family practice a particular religion, in India? 00:01:52.600 --> 00:01:53.500 [VD]: Hinduism. 00:01:53.500 --> 00:02:01.500 [JG]: Hinduism? Leading into that...what did your parents to for a living? 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:07.700 [VD]: My father was a businessman. And my mother was a house holder.   00:02:07.100 --> 00:02:12.500 [JG]: Okay. If you don't mind me asking what sort of businesses was your father into? 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.000 [VD]: He was into the cotton mills.   00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:24.600 [JG]: Okay. Did you have any siblings? If so can you name them?  00:02:24.600 --> 00:02:41.400 [VD]: Yes, I myself including, we are four brothers and four sisters. Right now I just have one brother living, and one sister living, and me. And then what else, you wanted the names? 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:43.400 [JG]: Yeah if you could please state their names 00:02:42.700 --> 00:03:11.100 [VD]: Yeah. The oldest brother name was Shanti. The second brother name was Kanti. The third brother name was Hershel. All three are deceased. And the last brother, named Narenda, he’s living. He is actually living in, right now, in Homewood, Illinois. And my sisters, the oldest sister’s name was Lolita. The second sister name was Qusum. 00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:23.500 And third sister is me, Virbala. And the last sister is Reika, and she is living is Mumbai. And the other two older sister have been deceased. Yeah. 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:24.500 [JG]: A big family. 00:03:24.500 --> 00:03:27.800 [VD]: Yeah, ah I have big family, for eight brothers and sisters. 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:33.300 [JG]: From what you remember, your life in India with your siblings, how would you describe your life? 00:03:33.300 --> 00:03:43.500 [VD]: We were a very close-knit family. We all lived together. Even though my oldest brother was married, and the second brother was married, we still lived together. 00:03:43.500 --> 00:03:44.300 [JG]: Okay, in the same house?  00:03:44.200 --> 00:03:50.500 [VD]: Yeah, in the same house. We were almost twenty people living in the same house. Yeah, right, yeah. 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:54.800 [JG]: Oh wow, oh wow. Wow. I bet you that was--Sometimes it was a good thing, sometimes it was a bad thing.  00:03:54.800 --> 00:04:12.500 [VD]: To us, it was good. I mean we had to be very--one good thing that came out of that close-knit family is that we were all disciplined. Very much disciplined in getting up in the morning, getting first shower. Cause one bathroom. Everybody has to go according to their own time! 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:13.300 [JG]: It was a routine, a routine, yeah **laughs** 00:04:13.300 --> 00:04:17.900 [VD]: Right. If they missed their time, they take shower in the evening. **laughs** That’s what-- 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.900 [JG]: Sometimes it's better to have order. Order **laughs** 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:25.100 [VD]: It is order! Yeah, we had pretty good order in the house, yeah. My father was very much disciplined, yeah. 00:04:25.900 --> 00:04:41.800 [JG]: That’s good. Um...from what you remember as--Well, let me, let me back track a little bit, kinda side-step. Um, what year did you come to the United States as an immigrant? 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:43.000 [VD]: 1966 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:49.100 [JG]: 1966. And, what, what brought you to the United States? 00:04:49.100 --> 00:04:52.600 [VD]: I got married with a person who--yeah, was living here. leaving and you met him in Mumbai he was he 00:04:50.700 --> 00:04:56.200 [JG]: Okay, okay. Can you, say the name of your husband? 00:04:56.200 --> 00:04:57.100 [VD]: Denesh 00:04:57.100 --> 00:05:00.000 [JG]: Denesh? Okay. And, and you met him in Mumbai? 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.100 [VD]: Yes, we met in Mumbai. It was arranged wedding. 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:08.400 [JG]: Oh okay. Can you describe that little bit, for me, for-- 00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:10.800 [VD]: For the--You mean for the arranged wedding? 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:11.300 [JG]: Yeah 00:05:11.300 --> 00:05:39.300 [VD]: He was a cousin of my, of the colleague that studied in the same school. Although he was older to me, you know the colleague was older. He was actually, cousin actually--his cousin was studying in the same school as I am, I was studying. We were seeing the same score. And that's how I was introduced to my husband, through him, through his cousin, you know. And then I-- 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:48.200 We just met, I think, two times we met, because he had to come back. He was in a medical residency. 00:05:48.200 --> 00:05:49.500 [JG]: Okay, he was already here 00:05:48.700 --> 00:06:12.200 [VD]: So he had a--Yeah, he was already here in New York. And he was doing his residency in Queens General in New York. And he had come to get married. So he had two tickets with him! **JG laughs** And he had to do in one week, everything. So we met and, we met two times, and the third time we decided, “Okay. We’re going to go ‘head with the wedding.” And that’s how we-- 00:06:11.700 --> 00:06:13.600 [JG]: Like a leap of faith kind of a little bit?  00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:14.500 [VD]: What is that? 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:15.900 [JG]: You took took like a leap of faith? 00:06:15.900 --> 00:06:45.800 [VD]: Yes! Oh, yeah, of course. Because knowing the fam--knowing his cousin, you know. And the family, I didn't know anything about his family at all. Not his mother. His father had passed away, but his sister--one sister had also passed away, one sister was there still. But knowing his cousin well, and, you know, just depending on what he is, whatever he told me about Denesh. And I said, “Okay.” And when I met him I found him pretty sober. **laughs** 00:06:45.800 --> 00:07:01.800 So, even though living in this country by himself, and you know....He was here in ’63! Yeah so--and couple years before me. And so he was living and he still--you know, I had a full faith in him that time. 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.600 [JG]: That’s amazing. ahead with the wedding and that's how I always join 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.500 [VD]: Yeah that is different. 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:15.900 [JG]: From what you remember about him describing the United States, what do you--How do you remeber him describing the United States? Like did he have to convince you to come? 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:45.700 [VD]: He...no he just told me, he told me what he does, actually. The America, actually, I had not much idea about the United States. Actually, my older sister, when I decided, my older sister, she brought out the map of the United States and said, "You know where you going? **JG laughs** You know how far you are going? You know? Out of this big family, you are going on the other side of the world,” and you know. And, somehow or the other it just clicked between us. 00:07:45.700 --> 00:08:22.400 And he said, “You'll be fine, as you can be yourself, and speak English!” That was a--yeah. That was a good point. And that was a good kind of thing that I could speak English. And little bit, being in a--I think, living in Bombay and exposed to so many different--In my high school, also, we had lot of kids also out of the other countries, and so I was quite exposed like that, in a way. You know to different cultures and things like that, so. And then-- 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:26.100 [JG]: You said, you--His cousin was going to the same school as you were. 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:26.700 [VD]: Yes 00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:29.000 [JG]: What were you going to school for if you don’t mind me asking?  00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:34.800 [VD]: Where I’m going to--? That was a high school high school, yeah. Yeah. That was high school. 00:08:32.900 --> 00:08:36.300 [JG]: Okay, okay. Did you go to college out there? 00:08:36.300 --> 00:08:49.100 [VD]: Yeah, I got in Mumbai, I got into Convent College in St. Xavier's. I did my master’s in Psychology, and then I did my master’s in Psychology through the University of Bombay. 00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:57.400 [JG]: Okay. And, were their specific reasons why you wanted to study psychology, or it was just kind of something you were interested in? 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.000 you want to study psychology or is just kind of 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:24.600 [VD]: It just, yeah, it just had interested me...just to learn about the mind, and something like that. And we had this professor from Spain, yeah. He was a priest! And he was a--and somehow or other we just enjoyed his teaching. And we were the first group of psychology that come out of that school. Yeah, it was the first group of psychology, yeah, so. 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:45.300 [JG]: Excellent. Going back kinda to your arrival, you had already studied out in India. When you got to the United States with your husband, did you start working right away or--? 00:09:45.300 --> 00:10:20.200 [VD]: No, I wasn’t working at that time because of the visa. See it was a dependent visa, so you’re not, cannot get job. But what I started to do was, just on my own, I started to go in the train , and just to see the New York, and just to--and walk around in the neighborhood and know people, and thing like that, since I could speak English. And actually, the house we were renting where the landlord was living below us, we were on the upper level. 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:51.400 And he was very nice. And he always kept talking me about the United States and all the America. He himself had never seen to Empire State building. **laughs** But he said, “You go see it." **laughs** So I used to travel on the train, many times going from Queens General, Queens to...New York City. You had to go--it’s a suburb. Queens is a suburb of New York, so. And I use to travel in the train and go visit New York City. 00:10:51.400 --> 00:11:25.400 And I happened to meet the, this manager of the Avon. Yeah remember that? And then was asking me, talking to me. And said, "Oh you speak English pretty good, and would you like to do that?" I said, “I’ve never sold anything in my life.” And I--"Well you can try!” I say, "Okay!” Then I started doing that and knowing my neighborhood more with that. Then actually continued when we moved to Buffalo. Because that's where my husband did the cancer training, in Roswell Park. You know, so. I continued that for some time. Then the babies were born! **laughs** 00:11:25.400 --> 00:11:26.500 [JG]: You started having a family 00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:29.000 [VD]: Then a family. Then my two sons were born there 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:30.700 [JG]: Okay, what are the name of your two sons? 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:35.900 [VD]: Well older one is Samir. And the younger one is Asim.  00:11:35.900 --> 00:11:39.500 [JG]: Okay. And, what do they do for a living if you don't mind me asking? 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:53.500 [VD]: Now, the older one is in investment, he is investment manager of the company. And then the younger one, he is a cardiologist, specialized in procedures for pacemaker. Yeah they’re practicing in California. 00:11:53.500 --> 00:11:54.200 [JG]: Okay, both of them are? 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.600 [VD]: Both of them are in California. Yeah, in Laguna Beach, both are there in Laguna Beach, yeah. 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:00.900 [JG]: It's a good time to be out there right now **laughs**. 00:12:00.900 --> 00:12:06.400 [VD]: Oh yeah! I’m going there **laughs**! Yeah, I am spending Christmas with them.  00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:18.800 [JG]: Good, good....So again, still on like the topic of arrival. What did you find most striking about the United States when you first got here? 00:12:18.800 --> 00:13:02.700 [VD]: Very clean. Very clean, beautiful roads, very openness. Beautiful nature. You know, because I love nature...I like to walk around in the woods and thing like that. And people, very friendly. Yeah people are very friendly. And then of course, the food and everything, totally, you know like, completely reliable. Like, very healthy and very, very fresh. And, you know, no problems with any kind of food here. Because in India, there sometimes contamination is there, but here alright. Never found that much, you know, so. That impressed me... 00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:08.500 [JG]: Were there any challenges upon your arrival with you and your husband? 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:40.500 [VD]: Um, no actually, not much. He started his work right away. He was still, like a resident I said, and when they are residents they go right in the morning at 8 o'clock. And then when they work on weekends and they’re on call, he goes on Friday and comes on Monday morning, ‘cause he has to stay at the hospital at that time as a resident, you know. So not much, there was another family that my husband had met before I arrived there. And they were staying across us. 00:13:40.500 --> 00:14:06.600 And sometimes they would call me because--He was also a doctor, his friend was also a doctor. His wife was also a doctor. His wife was not practicing, but sometimes they would call and, you know, meet sometimes and for dinner. Thing like that. But actually, I didn't have really any problem adjusting to this country or anything like that. Yeah, I was not feeling that way, you know, so. 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:18.200 [JG]: Um... So as you were settling in, you said you were New York first and then you moved. How long after you were in New York did you...? 00:14:17.400 --> 00:14:50.100 [VD]: New York, I was there for nine months also. And then we moved to Buffalo. We were four years there. Then we came to Chicago in 1970. Then my husband joined the group after he finished training in cancer. He joined the group over here in Chicago Heights, the south suburban group. Suburban Heights at that time it was called. It was a group of fifty doctors and he was one of the oncologists. He joined the group there in practicing here. 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:55.800 [JG]: And, after Buffalo you came to Chicago, because of, of the job...?  00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:13.000 [VD]: Because of the, because the other partner who was here, we was also, well, had trained in Roswell Park. And he--in Buffalo. And he told Denesh that, “Come over here. It’s a good group. You would like to practice here.” So that's why we came here, yeah. Because he-- 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:16.000 [JG]: How was that move for you guys? Did you enjoy it, or--? 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:36.500 [VD]: Yeah, I mean yeah. I enjoyed Buffalo a lot, too, for four years because we were quite near to Niagara Falls. We were living--almost every weekend I was going down there, yeah. The weekend for people coming in, and even my professor of psychology! He also came down to visit and--yeah, yeah. And two came, you know, so. It was fun. 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:37.800 [JG]: Uh, your children were born already? 00:15:37.800 --> 00:15:46.200 [VD]: The children were born down in Buffalo. Yeah. One in 1968, another one in 1970, yeah... 00:15:48.300 --> 00:15:52.800 [JG]: Out of all the cities that you have lived in, which one have you liked the best? 00:15:52.800 --> 00:16:14.600 [VD]: I've lived only like in New York for short time, and then I had been year in Buffalo. I liked it from certain points, because it was near to the Niagara Falls. And a smaller place. And, it was, it was nice, you know. But here also, it's good. You know, I’ve got used to it **laughs**. I mean 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:27.600 .... Now I kind of find it difficult, this cold weather and snow and things. As you grow older, I think that's what happens later on, yeah. 00:16:26.300 --> 00:16:32.100 [JG]: Yeah I, I can defintely understand that....Lot of challenges with living alone 00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:59.600 [VD]: Lot--yeah, right. But then I have my own, you know, life here, too. Like I have my own friends and things like that. I am involved with a lot of things, so. And I taught also for 25 years here, you know. And I did my studies. I did my--again--master’s, here. Early Childhood. After my kids got about five years old, I started going to the evening classes to the Governor’s State. Yeah, then I did Early Childhood master’s in that. 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:08.700 And then started working. In Monte--then I did specialize in Montessori teaching. And then that’s what I had studied Montessori, myself in India. 00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:10.400 [JG]: Okay can you tell me a little bit more about that?  00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:40.900 [VD]: Montessori actually is a very self-study kind of thing. And they use certain different kinds materials for developing your rationality and also your emotionality and, you know. So it's a very independent study. It's not like...regular schools have different way of teaching than Montessori. It is different than that, you know. 00:17:40.900 --> 00:18:05.400 So it makes a child more independent, and more challenging, you know. They can go as far as they want, even they’re 4 years old. I had 3 years old, 4 years old. They wanted to know how to do multiplication at that time, yeah. So they can, you know, it's a very individual study like--you know. And there are certain equiments that help you go further in that, you know. So, I enjoyed it-- 00:18:04.700 --> 00:18:06.200 [JG]: So you said you taught for 25 years? 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:34.500 [VD]: Yeah I taught in Montessori school for 25 years. Then, we all the teachers retired, one went to Colorado. And so here and there. So we all retired. And then after that--But I’m still subbing! I subbing in Flossmoor here, Flossmoor Middle School, yeah. Actually, yesterday I subbed, you know, so. Yeah, so I do sub still. Yeah but that’s not complete Montessori school. That is a regular school. It’s not a Montessori school, but I do sub there. 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:38.400 [JG]: Did you do all your 25 years at one school, or was that at different--?  00:18:37.600 --> 00:18:42.300 [VD]: Yeah, 25 years at one school. And I was doing two sessions, morning and afternoon. 00:18:42.300 --> 00:18:44.200 [JG]: Oh okay, what was the name of the school, if you don’t mind me asking? 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:53.000 [VD]: Uh, Creative Play. Creative Play, yeah. One they--one had in Flossmoor, and one was in Chicago Heights. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:57.200 [JG]: Oh okay. Did you teach anything specific, or was it just kinda--? 00:18:56.700 --> 00:19:26.100 [VD]: Montessori is the one that I was in, okay? Yeah, we had, we had kind of were teaching like--We three rooms in our school and one room was strictly for Montessori. They’re all Montessori equipments and they come and learn the Montessori way of learning. And then another class was art. So they can have the expression of their, you know, feelings and things like doing art. 00:19:26.100 --> 00:19:31.300 And then one group was the music. So they rotated for 45 minutes in each class, that’s how. But there are certain schools are complete Montessori where they really do not have much-- 00:19:31.300 --> 00:19:32.700 [JG]: Like subjects or--? 00:19:32.500 --> 00:19:50.600 [VD]: No not much of the music or art. They strictly just do the Montessori work. I like this kind of thing, where a child can develop all over. You know, like total development... But-- 00:19:50.600 --> 00:19:57.300 [JG]: Did you--was there a certain reason why you just wanted to stick strictly with...early childhood? 00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:58.000 [VD]: Yeah, I like that age group. 00:19:58.300 --> 00:19:59.200 [JG]: Okay. The children? 00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:04.000 [VD]: Yeah. I like--yeah, yeah. 3 to 5 years with--I like the age group, yeah 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.200 [JG]: They’re eager to learn, right? **laughs** 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:12.600 [VD]: They’re eager to--**laughs**. Yeah they are to learn and easy to handle I suppose **laughs** 00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:13.900 [JG]: Yeah, some of them, right? 00:20:13.700 --> 00:20:18.400 [VD]: Yeah, right. I mean you--so. 00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:23.300 [JG]: So, besides the Avon, was teaching your first job? 00:20:23.300 --> 00:20:33.800 [VD]: Right, that's all I did was teaching. I didn’t do any other work. Yeah. Avon was just temporary then. Then after that, yeah, I came to the--I didn’t do any other work. Yeah. 00:20:33.800 --> 00:20:46.500 [JG]: Is, like from what you remember--you know this is kind of just like a general question--How do you think you were treated as far as, like opportunities or advancement or recognition while you were a teacher? 00:20:47.200 --> 00:21:03.000 [VD]: Um, it was not that much--you know, I didn’t have much of the discrimination there. You know because the rest of the teachers were all Americans, except I was the only Indian teacher. And I was pretty well-respected and liked by my-- 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.100 [JG]: Okay you never felt like any sort of hate? 00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:05.600 [VD]: No, not--No! I never felt like that. 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:05.600 [JG]: Well good. 00:21:05.600 --> 00:21:12.700 [VD]: Yeah. Never felt like that, no. I am still in touch with them, even though we all retired quite a few years ago. 00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:14.200 [JG]: Other teachers you’re talking--? Okay, excellent! 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.600 [VD]: Yeah, I’m still in touch with them, yeah. 00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:30.200 [JG]: Excellent. Um, so if we could back track a little bit...have you--are you a US citizen right now? 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:31.800 [VD]: Yes. A long time ago. 00:21:31.800 --> 00:21:34.500 [JG]: Oh okay. I’m pretty sure a soon as you were married-- 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.200 [VD]: 1990, yeah. 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:43.400 [JG]: Okay. Um, how would you describe that process, or, like was it something you wanted to do, or? 00:21:43.800 --> 00:22:09.500 [VD]: Um, I think it’s--I don’t know whether I wanted to do or not. It just happens like that. You know, because--Some advantages if you are, like a citizen, you know. Of course, besides voting. Voting is not my much priority. But, it helps when you are traveling and thing like that. Going overseas and thing like that, it helps when you have a, you know, American passport. 00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:11.000 [JG]: Have you been back to India? 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.200 [VD]: Yeah, a couple of times. Yeah yeah. After I came back in from ’66, you mean? 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.000 [JG]: Yeah, yeah 00:22:15.800 --> 00:22:41.600 [VD]: Oh yeah! Quite a few times. Yeah yeah. The first time we went was 1970. After that my younger son was one year old and we went. That was the first time. We could not have gone otherwise before. We had to have money **laughing** to go there, at that time. But, so--No, that was the first time and then after that, every two or years so tried to go there. 00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:43.700 [JG]: Oh really? Oh okay, so you try to frequently go back 00:22:43.000 --> 00:23:00.700 [VD]: Right, yeah. But when my husband was here, we didn't go travel too often. You know because he couldn't take off too long from the work. So, but--After he’s gone, he passed away in 1993. And then after that, you know, I’ve been trying to go every two years, every three years, and thing like that 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:01.800 [JG]: Okay, to travel and stuff? Oh, excellent. 00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:25.100 [VD]: Yeah. I mean we are visiting also--I have my own group, also. We visit in India. Yeah, we, you know. Before that I had not visited too much in India. While studying and all that and we didn't go much out. But have been visit--we had visit a completely almost whole of India. Yeah, with my own group, you know, and we go different parts of India, and so. 00:23:25.100 --> 00:23:41.800 [JG]: ...Let’s see...besides teaching are any sort of, organizations, or like cultural organizations or religious organizations that you affiliate with? 00:23:41.800 --> 00:24:06.700 [VD]: I am affiliated with--especially after my husband has passed away. I am affiliated with the--If if you know about the Vivekanand Vidhan Society? Or Ramakrishna Mission? And there’s that one group I am affiliated, and the other one is our Gita Ashram, we call it a Gita. There is a scripture book called “Gita.” And that organization I am affiliated with. 00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:09.000 [JG]: Okay. Can you describe a little bit about both? 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:39.100 [VD]: Ramakrishna Mission Vidhan Society, which Vivekanand Vidhan Society, that is located in Homer Glen. And that is like a Vedanta teaching, meaning says there’s only one God, and it’s an omnipresence, it’s only one God. And then you have to--and it is within you! And you have to realize that. You know? And you have to kind of--It is difficult to understand that, but it is like, you are not this body and you are not this mind. 00:24:39.100 --> 00:25:09.100 You are that particular soul, you are that particular God, you are not bod--So you have to, kind of, do those kind of, assurities and practices to achieve that goal. And for that, you know, Ramakrishna was one of the, I would say he was incarnation actually. He was incarnation. And then his teachings we are following, how he achieved that, you know. Yeah. He was based in Bengal, West Bengal, you know in Calcutta. 00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:36.500 And there was a big temple there. It’s called Dakshineswar Temple, and there--He was a priest there. And there was a deity, that he believed in there, and he literally made that deity alive by his practices, assurities. And then he practices also Christianity, also Muslim--you know, also that. And also Sikhism. All different did he that--Buddhism. 00:25:36.500 --> 00:26:06.300 And he came to the conclusion that no matter what religion you belong, it doesn't matter, but they takes you to the same goal. It’s a different way of practicing, but it will reach you to the same goal. So that’s what--His teaching was universal religion. He said, “That means you should not be like all boast upon your religion. ‘Your religion is better than mine, or your--’ You should not be discussing that at all with anybody. You should not be even thinking that way!” That's what he’s--that-- 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.800 [JG]: Mhm, if you’re thinking that--If you’re thinking that way, you’re already on the wrong path **laughs** 00:26:07.100 --> 00:26:38.900 [VD]: Yeah...Wrong path! Right, so he said don’t ever--So he practices himself and proved himself! You know, that these all religions, they have different paths, but they take you to the same goal. So we are following his, his teaching. And there is a book called “Gospel of Ramakrishna” and his life is in there, and so we follow that. And then another group is Gita Ashram. That is, I told you, as a Gita is a very beautiful scripture. 00:26:38.000 --> 00:27:07.400 Hindu scripture. And that, also same idea was given--I don't know whether you have heard about Lord Krishna, was given by the god called--We have a lot of deities in our Hindu religion, you know. And everybody kind of, follow their own, whatever they feel comfortable with, and whatever they believe in that. So Krishna was one them. And he was also incarnation, he--Actually he was a god. 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:38.600 I mean the other people are incarnation of him, you know? So, his teaching was same thing, to...what do you call it. There was a war between the two parties, you know. It’s kind of one called devil and one for good people, and like that. And he was trying to tell him, that person who was, that fighting that war, and he didn't want to fight the war because he didn't want to kill the people. He said, It’s sin to kill the people” and this and that. 00:27:38.600 --> 00:28:08.700 He was arguing with him. And he said, “You are not killing the people; it's the bodies are killed. The soul are ever. The soul never die. It just goes from one body to another body! That’s all it is. There’s a soul. You are killing the bodies; you are not killing the soul!” So that's how he convinced him to fight against these evil people. And then, his whole sermons are there, you know. Then he teaches, that’s how the book came out as Gita. It’s called “Gita” you know? 00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:37.900 And actually, that--Saturday is a day, according to the Hinduism, according to that, that was the day that he gave that sermons, to this person called “Arjuna,” on the battlefield. Because he didn’t want to fight, he put his--He was a warrior, himself, but he didn't want to fight because he didn't want to kill his people, you know? And he so he gave that sermon right there at the battlefield. 00:28:37.900 --> 00:29:08.600 When he put his bow and arrow down, he said, "No, you are not putting the bow and arrow down. You are not killing people, you just the bodies are getting killed. And the soul are going to go further." You know. So that's how he taught that--on that particular day, that was on Saturday. And so we had gathered in my house here by reading the whole book of that. It’s like, you know, they had like about 180 sermons in there. So you read about, it takes about two and half hours to read that. 00:29:08.600 --> 00:29:29.200 So we did that on Saturday. Yeah, so. So that another group that I belong to, that we meet like once a month or twice a month. And we recite this whole thing when we meet. And we have different lectures and thing like that, you know. 00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:34.100 [JG]: Okay. And that’s with other people...with Indian origin, mostly? 00:29:31.500 --> 00:30:01.200 [VD]: Other people. Yeah, mostly they are Indian origin. Yeah. Ramakrishna Mission in Vidhan Society there are some Americans do come. Yeah. Actually, we opened up a new temple in the University of Chicago, where there is an apartment building and we...that we bought build--apartment one. And we turn it into the temple. And now there’s some students come there. And they have lectures every Saturday, from 11 to 1. 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:08.000 And I think they’re for 2 hour--and then some students come from University of Chicago, also. Just to-- 00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:09.400 [JG]: Okay. From UIC or--? 00:30:09.100 --> 00:30:38.600 ...Yeah, no, UChicago. Not U of I. U of IC, yeah. So that’s in Hyde Park. Yeah so, just to expose them. Not that we are exposing like a Hinduism as such, but this is only the--it is not particularly Hinduism. It is a way of life, it is a divine way of life. That’s what actually this one teaching--it is one we call Vedanta. It is a way of life that you have to live. 00:30:38.600 --> 00:30:42.600 It's a divine life that you have to live. That’s what it is, you know, so. 00:30:42.600 --> 00:30:54.100 [JG]: When you first got here to United States, or I guess let’s say, let’s just say Chicago. Were you immediately attracted to these groups or were they not around and then kinda slowly started building, or? 00:30:54.100 --> 00:31:24.900 [VD]: I slowly started building. Because my husband was into it, but he had his own way. And he was not much interested in going into groups or anything like that, more personal. He was doing his own thing on his own, and that’s what he was happy with, that. And I was not much into it at that time. The boys were growing up, and I was not much--And actually, we always believe the time comes for everything. So, maybe I wasn't ready, maybe I--you know. 00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:56.200 I had that psychology background, and you know, so there’s something in me. But actually I did not, you know, join any of these group at that time. And I was not into it that at all. After my husband passed away, and my friend who was running the group, call me, you know. And he said, “Why don’t you come. You will like this.” I started going and started liking it. That one group and then I joined the other group also. So that’s how I got into it, yeah. 00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:03.000 [JG]: Do your children practice...as well, or? 00:32:02.300 --> 00:32:05.500 [VD]: Um, not much. No, not much. Yeah. 00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:21.300 [JG]: ...Are there any other ways that you maintain your cultural identity? Besides kind of the religious ones you spoke of? 00:32:21.100 --> 00:32:52.000 [VD]: Mostly I’m into more this spiritual and religious--It’s, I would call spiritual. And I, because I’m not doing any rituals as such. But just like this philosophy and thing like that. I usually don’t for any go to any other kind of parties or thing like that, social. I don't go for that, you know. Because I now am all into this only, you know. And the scripture thing, so I don't like to go for any parties and thing like that much **laughs**, you know. 00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:07.500 But once in a while, I have to go for some wedding. I have to go, I could not say no. But otherwise, I won't go much more that, you know. Because I do have classes on Monday, Tuesday, and Friday and Sunday. 00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:13.400 [JG]: Okay, okay. You still like sub and you still teach and stuff like that. Okay. 00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:19.900 [VD]: Oh yeah! Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, so I attend those classes at, you know, at the Vidhan Society and over here, so... 00:33:19.100 --> 00:33:26.700 [JG]: Okay. What do you find most rewarding about when you go to those classes? 00:33:26.700 --> 00:33:52.200 [VD]: It’s, I think it's an evolving spiritually. You know, you can, I think you’re everyday living, and everything has different attitude to it. You know. It helps you how to handle any situations also come. And you know, like you can do it a better job on that one, you know. I think it get--yeah 00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:58.700 [JG]: Do you think, do you think if you would’ve stayed in India you would be practicing still, or--? 00:33:58.700 --> 00:34:28.500 [VD]: I--You know, I don't know. When I was in India, I used to attend some, but not as much, because maybe I was not involved too much. And maybe because I was still studying, and working and all that. So was not much into it, but I did attend couple of them over there. But it--Sometimes like I’ll feel that it just, it’s within everybody. And then a time comes for that too, to express yourself I think. 00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:49.500 That's what I feel, you know. So, but it happened more after, yeah. My husband passed away in 1993 and then more. Because I got more independent, like more freedom. Because I could go any time, any time, and I don’t have no string attached, you know. So that happened... 00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:59.000 [JG]: Is there any--What do like to do on your leisure time? When you’re not, when you’re not, let’s say teaching, or like, or, you know attending classes, or--? 00:34:55.700 --> 00:35:01.600 [VD]: Actually I...yeah. Yeah, my regular routine is-- 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.200 [JG]: I know you said you don't do parties or anything **laughs** 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:30.000 [VD]: No I don't do parties. But I have a gathering, like a couple of times a year. ‘Cause there’s one of the priests that used to come, to come from Washington, to teach about this Vedanta. And then usually I would have the class for him. So he used to come every month. And that once a month our classes we have from him. And otherwise I have more--My regular classes, I go Monday, Tuesday, Friday and Sunday. 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:50.800 And then regularly my routine is that I do my meditation, yoga in the morning. I do my scripture reading and listening to the tapes, and that goes on. And then I do the health club, and go to health club, regularly. And then my routine is there, yeah. 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:51.900 [JG]: Yeah. So you do body and mind. 00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:56.300 [VD]: Mind and body, yeah. Oh, you cannot do your mind without your body’s good. Yeah. **laughs** 00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.700 [JG]: Okay. Right. I definitely agree with that. You need to-- 00:35:58.100 --> 00:36:28.100 [VD]: Right. Unless your body is in a good shape, you cannot do, you know, any other things, you know? So. Try to do whatever the best you can do, yeah. But that’s usually it is. I am not much of a TV watch--at all. You ask me anything, I would not know anything about any show. ‘Cause I’m not at all into it. Only time I watch is one hour, is the news. That's all it is I watch, 5 to 6, that’s all. Otherwise I don't **laughs** watch anything much. Yeah. 00:36:28.100 --> 00:36:41.400 When I go visit my sons--yeah. My son, “Okay, mom I take you to movie." "Ok, let's go movie.” Whatever he does, and I do with him, in that time, you know. But my regular routine, I’m not much into it. 00:36:41.400 --> 00:37:07.400 [JG]: I think we’re pretty much--I’m just going be, just kinda, just like wrap up... Is there, like, when you came to the United States, are there like any defining memories that you have of first coming to the United States? And, kinda like living your life as a, as an immigrant here? In the beginning? 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.300 [VD]: I mean-- 00:37:10.300 --> 00:37:15.000 [JG]: Is there anything you like, like that you remember, that you will always remember? Or kinda stands out to you? 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:44.400 [VD]: Oh something that, my experience you mean? I mean like something that impressed me a lot in this country. The one thing I said people are always helping here. That’s all I say. If you have anything, you know...you ask and they always find you the ways out for you. They’re always helping anyone. I mean I enjoyed working with all the other people that I worked, you know. Yeah I enjoyed working with them. I still like to work with kids and thing like that, so. 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:53.700 That's I think the best thing that I like in my life is to work with the kids in the middle school. Yeah, I enjoy doing that, yeah.... 00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:00.700 [JG]: If you could give any advice to other Indian immigrants coming to the United States, what would you say? 00:37:59.600 --> 00:38:27.800 [VD]: I would say--yeah--I would say that it’s good if they know the English. And they, when they come here after they get used to it a little bit here, they should learn driving, because it is very important for you to little independent. You know. Because otherwise your husbands are working and thing like that and you depend on him to, for--Everything you have to do on your own here. It's not like in India, you have servants, and you call them. “Okay, go get this, go get that.” They’ll get it. 00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:59.800 You have servants all day long in your house, and they will do for you. Here you don’t have. You are one in all. Or “all in one,” or whatever you say, you know. And you have to do everything on your own! So if the husbands are going to be busy, and you’re going to create a stress on the husbands if you’ll not be little independent. So I would say that they should know English well, and then they should learn the driving as soon as possible they come. That’s the two thing I would really, you know, thing think they should, you know. 00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:15.100 [JG]: What do you think is the hardest part of trying to keep your cultural identity...and then, kind of, like adjusting to the American...American way of life or, you know? 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:40.400 [VD]: American? You know, one thing I...one thing I like about American here is that they are very broad-minded people. See, the--America is made of all the foreigners. So they accept, you know, all different people here in this country. So they don't make you feel anything different than them or anything like that. They would not, you know, have anything against you, or anything like that, you know? They welcome you all the time! 00:39:40.400 --> 00:40:01.400 Anywhere you go they say, “Hello,” and thing like that, you know. So they’re very open-minded that way, because this country is made up of foreigners, you know. So at least I have never found and felt anywhere that they’re, you know, discriminating or they are not liking us, or anything like that. I have never experienced that, you know, in this country. 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:09.800 [JG]: Is there anything you would like to add? As far as any comments or closing remarks about your immigrant experience to the United States? 00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:39.200 [VD]: Just that's all it is, I said. Like, you know, one must know the English. And don't be afraid. Just go ahead and be out, you know. I mean you don't have to be dependent upon a husband or anything like that. To a certain extent you are, but to, you know, try to be yourself and do whatever you can do the best--yeah. And mingle with the country. I mean mingle with the lives of United States. 00:40:39.200 --> 00:41:00.800 Like, you have to be in the same stream. If you want to live in Rome, you have to be like Romans. I mean like, yeah, it's like that, you know? And you have to accept certain things of this country, you know. And then keep your culture, too! Not impose your culture on anybody else. But you keep your culture, at the same you accept, you know. 00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:04.000 [JG]: You have to give something up for a little bit to--yeah. 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:30.400 [VD]: Yeah! Yeah you have to accept the way of American life, and thing like that. You have to accept that. You cannot, you know--Yeah, you come to this country on your own choice. And you have to accept the way of they live here--the living whatever it is and however they live. You have to--there is always something good about everybody, you know. So that’s what we feel, the country, like that, you know, so. 00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:36.600 [JG]: I--I think...I think that’s it. Yeah. I think that’s it, yeah. 00:41:34.100 --> 00:41:36.600 [VD]: You get it? You’ve got it, yeah. Oh.