WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:35.800 [JOEL GONZALEZ]: Start recording... Okay, this is an interview with Dr. Vidyasagar Dharmapuri as part as--as part for the Indo-American Heritage Museum for the Masala Chat Oral History Project. The interview is being conducted today on February 16th at 2:15 at Dr. Vidyasagar’s residence. I am Joel Gonzalez, interviewing, and we'll get started with the first question. 00:00:35.800 --> 00:00:36.100 [VIDYASAGAR DHARMAPURI]: Sure. 00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:41.800 [JG]: Can you please state and spell your first and last name, please? 00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:56.900 [VD]: Yeah, my first name is Vidyasagar. V i d y a s a g a r. Last name is Dharmapuri. D h a r m a p u r i. 00:00:57.400 --> 00:01:01.500 [JG]: Ok, thank-you. When and where were you born? 00:01:02.400 --> 00:01:22.000 [VD]: I was born in a--in the district of Karimnagar. K a r i m n a g a r. In the state of, currently Telangana. T e l a n g a n a. in India. 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.000 [JG]: Ok. Was this the same area where you were raised? 00:01:26.600 --> 00:01:42.300 [VD]: Somewhat, but we’ve been--since my brother was an employer, he was my mentor and--so we moved around but mostly, that’s it-- 00:01:42.300 --> 00:01:43.500 [JG]: Ok, mostly in that area? 00:01:43.500 --> 00:01:43.800 [VD]: Yeah. 00:01:43.800 --> 00:01:48.400 [JG]: Ok excellent. What language or languages did you speak growing up? 00:01:48.800 --> 00:02:14.900 [VD]: And, that, of course, our native language, state language is what is known as Telugu. T e l u g u. Of course I know other languages. I learned Urdu and Hindi, these are the languages I grew up. In my childhood, I took a little bit of Persian. It didn’t stick too much. 00:02:14.900 --> 00:02:15.800 [JG]: **laughs** 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:29.600 [VD]: But then we---well, we got independence, as you know, I was born in 1960--1939 August 16th, 1939. That was---I was born Pre-Independence of India. 00:02:29.600 --> 00:02:30.300 [JG]: OK, Pre. 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:58.800 [VD]: When we got Independence, I was 7, 8 year old. So I was under the--at that time, the king of--the state was was known as Hyderabad State. Hyderabad. H y d e r a b a d. H y d e r a b a d. At that time, our king was Nizam. Muslim Kingdom. 00:02:59.500 --> 00:03:20.500 And Urdu language was the official language. And if you knew Persian, you'll be secure in getting jobs. So I learned Persian also. But only up to 4th grade. Not much, of course. When Independence came, we started learning our own mother-tongue. 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:27.700 [JG]: Do you remember the, the pre-independence very well? 00:03:27.100 --> 00:03:27.700 [VD]: Oh very well. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:29.500 [JG]: And the events that followed after? 00:03:29.500 --> 00:03:58.600 [VD]: Very much so, because even I was very young that time, we remember--I quite remember that in the city of Hyderabad, which is the capital, there were several interesting political gatherings and political activities that were going on. We also saw--in that time because the British were still ruling India, we used to see lot of British soldiers going around. 00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:30.300 And my brothers were engaged in some political activities. Not really--as a student they would going around. But when moved, when I was about 4 years old, 3rd and 4th grade, that’s when we got the Independence. And the state of Hyderabad, under Nizam, did not agree to join the union of India, the modern new India. And they put a little bit of resistance. 00:04:31.200 --> 00:05:00.000 So then there was a what is known as--similar--it's not quite Jihadis because (inaudible) local movement, Muslims. They were minority, but they wanted to stay away from the union but they were right in the middle of the country. Obviously, it was not a good position. But that’s the time when some political activity increased. And the Indian army came in, took over. 00:05:01.300 --> 00:05:29.800 And I remember very well, I think--I keep telling these stories to my children and my friends that how we were looking for the Indian army to come. And we were little bit under stress, because of the local Muslim minority, government, they were putting lot of stress and they would cause harm and so on and so forth So when the Army came, we were looking for it for almost two weeks. 00:05:30.500 --> 00:06:00.100 We are hundred miles away from the main city. So, that was an interesting experience. And of course I remember childhood when Ghandi-ji was assassinated. We were not having many radios, only one radio in the town. And we would be listening to the radio and we also marched to river to celebrate. Even from Delhi, we were 700, 800 miles away from Delhi. 00:06:00.900 --> 00:06:15.100 But in our village, not--in our town, it was a district headquarters, it’s a town. So I remember very well how we are listening constantly, we marched to the river in Indian--according to Hindu, I'll tell you, people go to the-- 00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:15.900 [JG]: The rivers. 00:06:15.900 --> 00:06:26.900 [VD]: After cremation, you would (inaudible) river and take a shower, bath, and clean yourself but that was happening in Delhi. But we’re able to-- 00:06:27.700 --> 00:06:28.200 [JG]: To do the-- 00:06:28.100 --> 00:06:29.400 [VD]: Listen. Yeah. 00:06:29.900 --> 00:06:30.800 [JG]: Wow that’s really interesting 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:39.000 [VD]: And we are listening to the lectures by Nehru. Pundit Nehru and other people. That’s an interesting experience. 00:06:39.400 --> 00:06:47.800 [JG]: Wow, that’s really interesting. So, since you were talking about your childhood, where did you go to school in India? 00:06:48.200 --> 00:07:16.100 [VD]: Well, in India, up to high-school I was moving around. With my--my parents passed away when I was 7 and 8. So, I was under the ward of my oldest brother. Obviously my brother and mother--sister-in-law, were my mother-father surrogates. And they were moving around for the job from Hyderabad to districts. 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:44.800 But finally, I graduated from high-school in Karimnagar, which is my place of birth. But then, other place called Mahabubabad, they say, let me, M a h a b o o b a d. Mahabubabad. That’s where I graduate from high school. 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:45.900 [JG]: High-school? Okay. 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:48.900 [VD]: Which is in the same state as Telangana. 00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:56.800 [JG]: Okay. As you had--you were saying you were in the care of your older brother. 00:07:56.900 --> 00:07:57.300 [VD]: That’s right. 00:07:57.300 --> 00:07:58.900 [JG]: Do you have any other siblings? 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:17.200 [VD]: Oh yeah. We were all five siblings. I’ll show you the picture later on. We are five brothers. I was the youngest of all. Yeah, we have five brothers, we were five brothers, at that time. Right now, surviving, myself and my older brother--one other brother. 00:08:17.200 --> 00:08:27.700 [JG]: Okay. Interesting. What was your life like in India? When, as far as you can remember. 00:08:28.100 --> 00:09:00.300 [VD]: Well, the life when I grew up obviously, it was pre-independence. And remember, now I am 77 year old, that time, of course, life was simple. And we are from middle-class family my (inaudible)--my brothers were pretty well educated, though. My oldest brother was a law degree, and second brother was a veterinarian, other brother was engineer. And another brother became engineer and other is forestry. 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:30.100 Forest. So, we are all educated family. Although my brother--my father, was a primary school teacher.But he had a vision, so he wanted to educate his children. (inaudible) in those days, it’s a really a big thing for a small family coming from a village, and, of course, my-- 00:09:31.500 --> 00:10:03.400 We come from a family of a village priest. And all my other uncles were village priests, (inaudible). My father went on--he believed that you must get education. And he wanted to see that everybody gets a college degree but this in 19--my older brother must have graduated 1939 or ’40. 00:10:04.300 --> 00:10:36.500 Graduated law degree. He sent them to Hyderabad City, which is close by. Which is the main--our capital. I grew up--most of the villages are towns where education was--all government schools not in private schools. Good time to play and but more focus was really-- 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:37.700 [JG]: On the studies 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:38.800 [VD]: Education. 00:10:39.900 --> 00:10:48.100 [JG]: In your education in India, when was your first experience of the English language? 00:10:48.700 --> 00:11:01.700 [VD]: Oh, we started the English language, as far as I know--remember, even 3rd, 4th grade onwards. And especially in high-school it was a second language. 00:11:01.800 --> 00:11:04.100 [JG]: Oh second-lang--a requirement I guess? 00:11:04.100 --> 00:11:13.700 [VD]: Yeah, requirement yeah. It was not English-medium but, we went to college, it was English-medium. But, up to high-school, it was local language 00:11a:13.700 --> 00:11:14.400 [JG]: Local language? 00:11:14.400 --> 00:11:22.300 [VD]: Yeah. But English was second language. Actually, Hindi was third, kind of thing. Optional, kinda. 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:30.200 [JG]: Oh wow. So in India what was the highest level of education that you received? 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:32.700 [VD]: Well I received--medical school, I went to. 00:11:32.900 --> 00:11:33.600 [JG]: Oh in India? 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:50.900 [VD]: Yeah, in India. Well I finished high-school when I was 14 and a half, and 2-year degree college, we don’t get--like your Associate’s Degree, kind of thing. That’s where, I was 16 and a half, and then we joined the medical school on a competitive basis at that time. 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.600 [JG]: Um, how did you know you wanted to be a doctor? 00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:22.000 [VD]: Somehow, from the beginning, since everybody was something. Engineer, lawyer, veterinarian so there was in the family that I'll become a doctor and I also wanted to become a doctor. And an interesting story is that, we were living in a city and all my brothers were going to college. They always had a high vision. Their target was very high. 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:52.400 Anyway, I remember in my next door neighbors, of our house, they had returned from America. My brother always used to look at that, America or England. And we, in our times, we always looked at UK as the ultimate education, to get it. So from childhood we would always think about, we wanted to be England returned, return from UK, that was the term. 00:12:52.400 --> 00:13:02.400 A, you say, Britain return, educated very high. So there are--our expectation in the family were high. 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:18.200 [JG]: So, since you were--since you brought that up about the British having the highest expectation, what made you go to the United States? 00:13:18.700 --> 00:13:48.700 [VD]: What was happening, obviously the medical school, we, at least myself, I was looking always in the medical journals where the opportunities are for training and that said, I was really raised by my brothers who had a limited income, but they gave me a good education, good food, and everything I didn't really--as an orphan I always felt one of the family member. 00:13:49.400 --> 00:14:18.600 And he took a-- So when I wanted to go to England, obviously, I needed money. To go to England when he was there, at that--that was just the beginning in India, idea about America. And they were looking for physicians to come and train near--they needed physicians. They had what is called, exchange program. 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:49.200 So, advantage of that was they would be providing stipend and they would, upfront buy the ticket for you, which you have to pay back, but in my case, other places--other people got free ticket also but mine, we had to repay. So that was the reason. And then the idea was to come to America. And stay for two, three years, and collect money. 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:57.900 Go to UK and get a UK degree. Because at that time, American degrees were not recognized in India. 00:14:58.200 --> 00:14:58.600 [JG]: Really? 00:14:58.700 --> 00:15:28.800 [VD]: Yeah. So, the British degrees were accepted. So the idea was to get this opportunity to come to US. And we got Lancet, perhaps you heard of it, journal called medical journal, Lancet. And, British medical journal, they used to announce many things. And of course we, 
even found the announcement. 00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:36.200 I came first to what is known, Poughkeepsie, New York. At the hospital called Vassar Brother’s Hospital. 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:38.500 [JG]: OK. And that’s here in the-- 00:15:38.500 --> 00:15:39.200 [VD]: In New York. 00:15:39.400 --> 00:15:44.200 [JG]: In New York, okay. And was that your first experience? 00:15:44.300 --> 00:15:44.500 [VD]: Yeah. 00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:45.500 [JG]: Here in the United States? 00:15:45.300 --> 00:16:05.100 [VD]: Yeah. I got a--I did, after medical school, we had to do some service and I also did about six, seven months of work in a village, in my home state. But meanwhile, all searching for opportunities to come here. 00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:05.500 [JG]: Right. 00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:07.800 [VD]: So, the hospital-- 00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:09.400 [JG]: What year was that? 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:27.800 [VD]: That was 1963. When I came here. I graduated 1961. From medical school. But it took about--we had to do internship and then correspondence between Poughkeepsie, New York. 00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:43.600 [JG]: And besides what you had said earlier as far as like training, medical training, and you know the opportunities for it was there anything else that brought you to the United States? 00:16:43.700 --> 00:17:06.000 [VD]: No, that was the primary thing really speaking. Because at that time, post-graduate training in India was--there are not enough facilities to go for post-graduate. And obviously as I mentioned to you earlier, that having a British training, more training, was regarded as very-- 00:17:06.300 --> 00:17:07.200 [JG]: More prestigious. 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:32.400 [VD]: Prestigious. And more experienced, obviously. It’s prestigious because you get a post-graduate degree. And there are not many places in India who provide post-graduate degrees. And, well, after coming here, then they took, their minds changed, because of facilities and all that was changed, remained here. 00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:55.500 [JG]: Oh. Very interesting. So these next set of questions, we’re just gonna, you know, they're not more like questions but, you know, kind of more to talk about your experience. If you can, I know we’ve already kind of talked about it as far as, like, your arrival to the United States. You said you started off in New York at the hospital? 00:17:55.600 --> 00:18:34.300 [VD]: Yeah. Well, arrival--by that time I start, I mean, I started corresponding with the hospital. I came to know that my colleague was already, my medical school, was there. Two of them. And they were informed by the hospital that “Your friend is coming from--” So those people, two of my friends, they came to--I arrived in what is known now JFK Airport. It was known Idlewild Airport International-- 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:36.900 [JG]: So it wasn’t even named JFK yet? **laughs** 00:18:36.900 --> 00:19:05.000 [VD]: No. Only when Kennedy died they changed the name. Idle--and I came by TWA. And it took more than 24 hours, 36 hours. It had 3 to 4 stops. Adian, Cairo, and Rome and then I think England so it stopped so many places. 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:13.600 And lot of stories you’ll be hearing. At that time, foreign exchange from India was very low. 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:15.100 [JG]: Low? 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:24.900 [VD]: Very. They gave only 8 dollars exchange. So half of the money was spent in buying coffee on the way. 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:26.800 [JG]: *laughs* Yeah. Trying to stay awake? 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:42.100 [VD]: Just awake. And it was totally different country. And different culture. That was the first time I flew in plane. Never had flown before. Although it’s in the plane! But-- **laughs** 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:44.100 [JG]: Wow. That's good. 00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:55.600 [VD]: So that was a long trip and when I arrived there, my friends picked me up from there and first experience was on 42nd Street eating pizza. 00:19:55.800 --> 00:19:59.400 [JG]: *laughs* Very nice. How was that experience? 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:00.400 [VD]: Good *laughs* 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.500 [JG]: Good? Had you ever had pizza before that? 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.600 [VD]: No... There was no pizza anywhere. 00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:15.900 [JG]: No? Wow. *laughs* So, before you left, what did you expect of the--like, your life to be in the United States? 00:20:16.300 --> 00:20:46.300 [VD]: Well, we didn’t know exactly--exactly, we didn’t know what was, what to expect. We knew that it was total--culture was totally different. And we knew that you have to get adapted to the conditions here and weather was cold and there--probably, me being a primarily vegetarian, totally vegetarian. 00:20:46.400 --> 00:21:09.700 It was difficult. We knew that standards were high, English, so when we arrived here, it was language was difficult. Comprehend. Not that we could not speak, we did not understand, but speaking and accent, that would be-- 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:11.100 [JG]: Made a little difficult. 00:21:11.100 --> 00:21:38.300 [VD]: Difficult. And being a vegetarian, it was much more difficult. We used to stay I mean, we were given accommodation in the residence quarter in the hospital. So, first six, or maybe two, three months, it was difficult. I was eating only milk and bread and fruits, and going to Howard Johnson. Do you know Howard Johnson? 00:21:38.800 --> 00:21:39.200 [JG]: No. 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:42.900 [VD]: Howard Johnson is old, McDonald kind of restaurant. 00:21:42.500 --> 00:21:44.300 [JG]: Oh, okay. No. 00:21:44.300 --> 00:21:53.850 [VD]: And we went there and discovered french fries and onion rings. So that was the treatment--that was a big discovery. 00:21:53.900 --> 00:21:55.000 [JG]: That was a big discovery for you? 00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:09.300 [VD]: For a vegetarian. On the other hand, in the hospital when they came to know that I am vegetarian, they were kind enough to give me supplies of vegetables and rice. And I would cook in my residence quarters. 00:22:09.300 --> 00:22:26.700 [JG]: Oh. That’s nice, that’s nice... So moving on to the next question. So what was--was there anything that you left in India, or that you missed a lot? Or, I guess, once you got to school, got into-- 00:22:28.600 --> 00:22:58.500 [VD]: Yeah, it’s a hospital training. Yeah, we miss obviously our--miss your relatives your brother, sister, family. And miss the Indian food. But we slowly got adapted to American way of life and we were very interested, focused on training. 00:22:58.900 --> 00:23:11.900 But there were good people in the hospital. Nurses and doctors they would invite us to their family. We were novelty for them. 00:23:12.100 --> 00:23:16.200 [JG]: *laughs* Why do you say that? 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:46.800 [VD]: Because they have not seen an Indian person coming from here. So they would ask us whether we had a snakes in our backyard, we had elephants in our backyard. So they totally--now they could not believe that a person coming from India can speak well, write well. So they had no experience and of course they, also they were not sure about our medical college background and knowledge. But we started--as we were performing, they were very impressed. 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:48.400 [JG]: Wow. That’s good. 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:56.500 [VD]: That was quite--for them, it was a learning experience. And it was a learning experience for us. 00:23:57.400 --> 00:23:58.200 [JG]: Right, for both. 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:11.300 [VD]: We were one of the first wave of doctors in 1960s. America opened doors for the doctors, professionals to come. 00:24:11.300 --> 00:24:12.100 [JG]: Yeah for professionals. 00:24:12.100 --> 00:24:42.100 [VD]: Until that time, there was a lot of restriction on immigration. But this was on German (?) visa. It’s not immigration. And at that time, they were not giving visa to Indians. Indians were not on the list of Visas, immigration visas, any visas. It was primarily Caucasians and Europeans. In 1960’s, they felt they should open it for professionals. 00:24:43.900 --> 00:25:05.800 [VD]: So, the first wave of Indians, I mean--perhaps you know the story before, in 1900 and that time, people came as the laborers, indentured laborers. Especially to Canada and the western Vancouver, in that area. But in 1960’s is when they opened doors for professionals. 00:25:05.800 --> 00:25:07.600 [JG]: For studying? For-- 00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:08.300 [VD]: Studying, yeah. 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:08.800 [JG]: Training? 00:25:08.900 --> 00:25:15.900 [VD]: Training. So, Indian doctors were the first wave of Indian migrants. In ‘60s. 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:27.500 [JG]: In the ’60s. … What was the most striking or interesting thing that you found about the United States when you first arrived? 00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:53.600 [VD]: Well one thing we found, Poughkeepsie--I came early morning, I woke up and started walking around. Streets were empty. Very foreign, few people walking around. There were cars. And it was silent, cold and-- As opposed to India where it was bungling street and honking cars and-- 00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:55.000 [JG]: In the mornings, too? 00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:27.700 [VD]: In morning. The traffic are even-- So it was totally--I knew that when I would start seeing the television. Soon after that, we start seeing color television. But color television was new at that time. But that was--and of course people were coming on time and people would be very respectful, always smiling. And then, everybody had work ethics and a labor ethics. 00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:55.900 Even we could see the janitor of the hospital and the head of the hospital sit at the same table and eat. So I was very impressed. I thought, if this is what is life like, why do we need Communism, I thought. Because at that time, as you know, the Russia--that was a big anti-Communism going on. And we were very much exposed to Communist ideology-- 00:26:56.700 --> 00:26:57.300 [JG]: In India? 00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:24.300 [VD]: In India. And there was, Communism gives equality to everybody. But I felt, if a janitor and a doctor and a hospital administrator go to the same cafeteria, and everybody carried their food and put it back where you belong and all that, self-service and all that. It was totally novel. And I felt, I mean, this is a very fascinating. 00:27:24.800 --> 00:27:35.500 You don’t need a Communism if we have something, that life is like that. Everybody has a opportunity to do same thing. A dignity for, for labor. 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:37.500 [JG]: Interesting 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:40.000 [VD]: That was very first impression. That one. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.800 [JG]: First? About the United States? Had you heard something prior to that like something different than that? Or-- 00:27:45.800 --> 00:28:16.100 [VD]: Well, we heard a little bit but not--experience is quite different. Experience is quite different. There were--one of things of course, interesting thing was, once I was talking to a patient--two patients in the room. And I was asking her life and everything. I didn't understand her, so I turned to the next patient. She said--I said, “I don't understand. 00:28:16.100 --> 00:28:20.400 Can you tell me what she’s saying?” She said, “I don't understand her either. She is from South.” 00:28:20.600 --> 00:28:24.400 [JG]: *laughs* So she had a different--she had a Southern accent? 00:28:24.600 --> 00:28:52.700 [VD]: So I said--that was the first time I said there are differences in America. It was unknown to us. And of course, there was one African American doctor, only one, on the faculty. But we did not really learn too much about racial discrimination at that time. But in the summer, we went on a long trip from Poughkeepsie to Miami. 00:28:53.900 --> 00:29:12.300 So we are going to Atlanta, Georgia, that area and we started seeing restaurants. “Blacks only,” “Whites only.” So we had a difficulty where to go **laughing**. There was no such thing like Indians, “Brown only.” 00:29:13.100 --> 00:29:16.700 [JG]: Oh my goodness. How did you feel when you saw that, or? 00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:41.800 [VD]: We were uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable. And we stopped and we went to the bathroom, “Blacks only,” they said, on very top. Then we skipped, we drove 24 hours from Poughkeepsie to Miami until we came to a comfortable place, where we did not see those signs. But that was a interesting experience. 00:29:41.800 --> 00:29:47.500 [JG]: Yeah. Were--you said you went with a group of the doctors right? 00:29:47.000 --> 00:30:17.700 [VD]: Yeah, group of Indian doctors. We were three, four of us, we were driving--and we went through one accident that happened, incident that happened in Atlanta, Georgia area. The middle of the night and one police person stopped and looked at us. “Who are you guys? Where are you boys going?” “Oh, we are from India.” Then he left us alone because he said, “Okay.” I mean, he would, I don’t know what he would have done. But, he was polite once we said we were from India. 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:35.500 But at that time, actually there was a news story. There was an Ambassador Jha from India. J H A. He, when he went to South, he was not allowed to go to a main hotel. He had to go to Black hotel. Indian ambassador. 00:30:36.300 --> 00:30:38.600 [JG]: Wow. I didn’t know that. 00:30:38.700 --> 00:31:03.400 [VD]: There was a protest from Indian government. So that was the--but in Poughkeepsie, New York and New York it was not that. We used to go to Harlem area, there was Indian restaurant there. We used to go once and two weeks or so. That’s only place Indian food was available. So Poughkeepsie to New York is about 80 miles. We would drive in couple of-- 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:04.500 [JG]: Was it worth it? 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:09.900 [VD]: --every two, three weeks. Huh? Well worth it. Of course. 60, 70 cents so you got a plate full of Indian food. 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:11.900 [JG]: Okay. Did it remind you of home? Was it good? 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:17.500 [VD]: Yeah, of course. 110th Street and 8th Avenue, I can remember. India-Pakistan restaurant. 00:31:18.100 --> 00:31:19.900 [JG]: Wow, that’s interesting. 00:31:20.900 --> 00:31:25.300 [VD]: So that was the very early experience of doing first training 00:31:27.100 --> 00:31:31.800 [JG]: Do you remember any challenges you faced? Like, when you-- 00:31:32.200 --> 00:32:03.700 [VD]: Yeah, challenges were obviously--we, as I said, except this one traveling experience--we did not face challenges. Challenges was really understanding English, communicating with doctors. But, we adapted so well and we were focusing primarily on the training and education. And the physicians were very, as I said, became very friendly of course. 00:32:03.700 --> 00:32:39.600 Because we were working hard and they are, they gave us a good chances to work on our own thing. We really did not see--I did not personally see discrimination or a question mark until later when I started going to higher level of training. The beginning, as I said, it was a novelty for them, novelty for us. But when I started to enter into higher level of education and wanted to go to better schools, training-- 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:40.100 [JG]: Better schooling? 00:32:40.100 --> 00:33:10.000 [VD]: Better hospitals, like medical schools. Community hospitals were open, welcoming. But we wanted to go to university hospitals. And that was difficult to get inside. They would not accept easily. And that was a struggle. If you read my, that thing, you’ll see, that kind of--so that was a struggle. They would say, “Oh, well you are from India. Very well trained or not?” All those kind of things. 00:33:10.600 --> 00:33:14.700 So it was a struggle, to get into better medical schools. Better training programs. 00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:19.100 [JG]: Did you feel that it was on purpose? Or was it just those-- 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:34.700 [VD]: It was two things. One is a lack of their understanding and they were not sure whether Indian, people coming from India, are as well trained, are they well educated. 00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:38.500 [JG]: So, it was competition, I guess, as well, too? 00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:51.300 [VD]: Competition. But lack of understanding and there was a certain amount of discrimination in the sense if you're coming from abroad, you're not as good as-- 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:53.800 [JG]: There’s that--there's a stigma that-- 00:33:53.700 --> 00:34:00.300 [VD]: A stigma. They would ask us--they were nice, but they would ask whether we had an elephant in the backyard **laugh together** 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.400 [JG]: What you do whenever they would ask you-- 00:34:04.700 --> 00:34:12.900 [VD]: We would laugh it off--Laugh it off when (inaudible) says we have--that kind of thing. And then explain to them-- 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:34.000 [JG]: And then explain to them. “You know, maybe, maybe not.” **laugh together** So, during your course of your training in New York, how was that--how would you describe your training? And your experience? 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:57.300 [VD]: Training was good, intern--during the first year internship. Actually, there would be--we did some odd jobs and that of that-- So, the doctors were very nice. It was a good training and they encourage us to--they gave me opportunity to go higher level. When, you know in those days when you do internship, then you choose a specialty 00:34:57.500 --> 00:35:04.700 [JG]: Right. And, at this time, you had already known what you wanted to do, as far as your-- 00:35:04.700 --> 00:35:33.800 [VD]: We were not sure actually. I applied here and there. One idea I had, wanted to go into space medicine but it didn’t happen. They said a year to get a government of India permission. They were not approving. Anyway, we chose--eventually, I got settled on Pediatrics. And my teachers, doctors, some mentors, they were good in providing support to go to medical school. 00:35:33.800 --> 00:36:03.400 But as I was telling you, getting into a good teaching hospital, a medical school was not possible. So I had to go choose an alternate school which--then after that, go to the next level. I did put a lot of effort but then people would say, Oh you’re foreign medical graduate, you won’t get that. But I persisted. There’s one Dr. Day in Pittsburgh I went on asking hundred times. 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:27.200 In those days, there was no cell-phone. No land phone. I used to go to calling, put a call in and call him. So, eventually he gave--his secretary said, “Dr. Vidyasagar why do you think you'll get a seat here. We have three, four American graduates. And you’re from India. Don't expect too much.” 00:36:27.700 --> 00:36:28.400 [JG]: Her secretary said that? 00:36:28.400 --> 00.36:28.800 [VD]: Yeah. 00:36:29.100 --> 00:36:29.500 [JG]: Wow. 00:36:29.500 --> 00:36:57.200 [VD]: And then I went on calling, I went on calling and-- If you want to make interesting story, I met Dr. Day at one of the meetings. One of my friend told me how to approach your future bosses and--he was very kind. And then I went on pursuing telephone calls from October to March, April. Then, finally he gave me a job. 00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:05.200 When I went there, everybody was wondering how did I get the job. How did I know the--but the persistence paid off. 00:37:05.700 --> 00:37:11.000 [JG]: Yeah, being--yeah. That’s interesting. 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:42.700 [VD]: Then then we did pediatric training. Then afterwards, I had to do a specialty, meaning pediatrics and sub-special--that time, the newborn care was a new one. Neonatalogy. Then that made very interesting--okay I think I should tell this one. At Pittsburg Children’s Hospital I was working, I roomed with a, another Indian friend. And it was rented, the room. 00:37:42.900 --> 00:38:15.600 Obviously we are busy doing this and that and we did not wash our dishes and it was in the sink. Unknown to us that the landlord came and opened the door and saw. And he left a note saying that, “If you don't clean up your house we will kick you out of the place.” Then I, personally I challenged him. What do you think, I mean, I was naive. Then, I didn’t know that landlord has a right to enter your house, a tenant’s house. 00:38:16.700 --> 00:38:39.300 I questioned him. Said, “What do you think? You think--” At that time, Indira Ghandi was our Prime Minister in India. “Even if you’re a Prime Minister, you’re Indian, Indira Ghandi comes, he will kick you out.” And they put a letter so then I went to my professor and his secretary. Talked a lot and we sent a letter to landlord. 00:38:40.300 --> 00:39:10.100 And he was, this man was telling, “You Indian guys don't do this,” blah blah blah kinds of things. So that was my, that was one of the discriminatory things. He was not saying that we were a bad student and bad this thing, but he was saying, “Indian, even if you’re chairman, if you are prime minister Indira Ghandi comes, I don’t care.” **laughs** That was an experience. 00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:42.700 After that, when I went to, of course, sub-speciality take--. And this is where my life starts. The process of going to professional is different, but that's where I met my wife. Until that time, I was not married. She will tell her story, but she was in training in pediatric cardiology. She had come from a different route. We did not come together. 00:39:42.800 --> 00:40:11.500 So we didn't know each other. She’ll tell her story. But she had come from West coast and all that--Hollywood and everything. We met there and then we decided to get married. In India we are about--I’m Hyderabad, she’s from Bangalore. We are about 400, 500 miles apart. We would not have met in India. And we got married in Chica--in Philadelphia. First Indian wedding. 00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:20.900 On June, 8th 1967. 00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:21.800 [NAGAMANI DHARMAPURI]: ‘68 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.500 [VD]: 8! ’68 **all laugh** 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:27.900 [JG]: She was waiting right there. 00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:35.700 [VD]: Yeah. *laughs* That story we will tell together. That was, interesting story. 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:44.100 [JG]: So, during this time while you're still in working at the at the hospital-- 00:40:44.200 --> 00:40:46.200 [VD]: Philadelphia Children’s Hospital I was working 00:40:46.600 --> 00:40:50.200 [JG]: How did you spend your leisure time? What did you like to do in your free time? 00:40:50.200 --> 00:41:17.700 [VD]: Well, leisure time we used to get only, I don't even know, remember how I spent it. Meeting other friends. And cooking together and eating Indian food. Primarily we are focusing on Indian food that we are starving all during the week. *laughs* In those days, there were no restaurants, Indian restaurants. And all we learned-- 00:41:18.200 --> 00:41:47.700 As a vegetarian I remember, grilled cheese sandwich, pickle, potato chips, and what else? Onion rings. Outside eating. We had not learned the Indian--American food like that. We are not eating, not being meat eater, we won’t eat hamburgers. Even if we go to McDonald’s they would not make it cheeseburger--a cheese sandwich. They said, “No, we don’t make it.” 00:41:47.700 --> 00:41:48.900 [JG]: Why? *laughs* 00:41:49.600 --> 00:41:54.900 [VD]: They didn’t know anything. Not until 1980’s, ‘90’s they’re not making it. 00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:56.100 [JG]: Like the chicken ones and-- 00:41:56.100 --> 00:42:28.300 [VD]: No not--we don’t eat chicken, meat, fish or anything. So our meeting, the way we spent was meeting the Indian friends. And putting a call back home was a struggle. You have to book your phone 24 hours ahead and when you get a opening, they will It was difficult. People would be bringing for music, radio, we had a-- 00:42:28.300 --> 00:42:58.700 Oh. Other thing we had a, buy a Grundig, tape recorders. So the first two things we used to buy, one is buying a car the first thing--I bought my car during my internship. Our salary they set, here, I didn’t tell you. $3,000 per year. Then we had to pay. Car, the air ticket, send some money home. And whatever’s left we eat. 00:42:59.200 --> 00:43:03.700 So, per week, I used to get $100 for two weeks to $100, $115. 00:43:03.700 --> 00:43:21.300 [JG]: Wow... Let’s see. Did you face any challenges as far as making friends besides your other Indian colleagues, when you came? 00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:50.600 [VD]: Obviously it was, really. I mean, we would talk to friends. American doctors. But their lifestyle was quite different. They were older than me, because they had four years college. They served in the army. Came back and joined so the difference was six to seven years of age. And obviously, I was not that mature-- 00:43:50.600 --> 00:44:17.300 Understanding of the lifestyle, yeah. So those guys would go back to their homes and carry their wife, children, whatever they’re living. So it was not easy to--and especially if you are the--eating habits. Different. But some of the people used to invite their house and friends. Well, nurses and doctors used to. So it was really, only professionally we’ll interact. 00:44:17.300 --> 00:44:18.600 [JG]: Okay, so it wasn’t like-- 00:44:18.600 --> 00:44:28.400 [VD]: No. But then, when we had a marriage, all my doctor friends here, Children’s Philadelphia, they came there also. Whoever had experience 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:37.700 [JG]: Were there any particular people maybe at the hospital, or--you know, that helped you adapt to the life in the United States? 00:44:38.300 --> 00:44:56.900 [VD]: They really, particularly adapt--actually in my first year, there were nurses. They introduced to, come to their house. But they really did not put an extra effort to teach me anything of the sort. We learned on our own, really. 00:44:57.100 --> 00:45:03.100 [JG]: Okay. So the first job where you were working in New York-- 00:45:03.500 --> 00:45:04.800 [VD]: Poughkeepsie, New York. 00:45:05.200 --> 00:45:05.700 [JG]: Okay. 00:45:05.900 --> 00:45:18.600 [VD]: And then second year I was in Wallahalla, White Plains--what is known nowadays--near, next to New York. Then Albany, New York. Then I went to Pittsburgh Children’s Hospital. 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:19.600 [JG]: Pittsburgh? 00:45:19.600 --> 00:45:19.800 [VD]: Yeah. 00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:25.300 [JG]: Okay. And that was for more training? Or-- 00:45:25.300 --> 00:45:35.200 [VD]: No. More training. Pediatric training is a two year training. Yeah. Then I came back to Philadelphia for a special training in the specialty of neonatology. 00:45:35.700 --> 00:45:39.000 [JG]: How would you describe your years in Philadelphia? 00:45:39.000 --> 00:46:01.100 [VD]: Philadelphia was good, of course. The first one year I was not married there. Second year, we got married. But first year I did live with an American boy, young man. I wanted to stay--live--get experience with. 00:46:01.100 --> 00:46:02.900 [JG]: Right. And was he also a doctor? 00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:35.800 [VD]: He was not a doctor. He was a--I just found on the newspaper and called him. It was interesting, obviously. For him, it was difficult to live with me. His habits were different. For example, going to a bar and drinking, I won’t go there. Eating--so, at that time we stayed together, but not--without much problem. 00:46:38.900 --> 00:46:43.000 [JG]: So, when you came to Philadelphia, you set out for more training right? 00:46:43.300 --> 00:46:46.900 [VD]: Yeah. Specialty training in the newborn--neonatal. 00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:54.800 [JG]: Oh so it was specialty. It was--It was an advance--Advancing your research and your studies. 00:46:56.300 --> 00:47:10.200 [VD]: And, my mentor, Dr. Downs and Dr. Bart, they were good. They invited to their house and they would spend the evenings and then--I would until-- We had a pretty good relationship. 00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:14.800 [JG]: Okay. And they were essentially your boss, right? 00:47:14.900 --> 00:47:19.000 [VD]: Yeah. They were boss, but they were really friendly. That was really friendly boss. 00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.900 [JG]: Okay. So you know--you can--like mentors? 00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:30.300 [VD]: Yeah mentors. I said, used to go and stay in the evening with the family and dinner and play with his children and things like that, so. 00:47:30.500 --> 00:47:37.500 [JG]: That’s good. And at this time you’re still doing like-- 00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:39.300 [VD]: It’s a four and a half years by that time. 00:47:39.300 --> 00:47:42.500 [JG]: Yeah. You had already met your-- 00:47:42.500 --> 00:47:54.200 [VD]: My wife. And we married. Now I had to go--I’m coming to five year of time and I had to move. My wife had to continue some more training in Philadelphia, so either we had to go home-- 00:47:54.500 --> 00:47:55.400 [JG]: Okay. To India. 00:47:55.500 --> 00:48:08.000 [VD]: To India, because five years are coming close. So we went to India. No, just-- 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.400 [ND]: No, we didn’t go to India. We got married and we went to-- 00:48:11.700 --> 00:48:43.200 [VD]: Canada. We went to Canada first. Canada first and that’s where we had our first baby. And in Canada. She was born in Canada. It was interesting, when I was training, in Philadelphia, I worked in VA hospital. I mean, interesting, I didn’t know at that time. Wilt Chamberlin. It was not a big news story. The secretary who says to me, “Wilt Chamberlain.” 00:48:45.200 --> 00:48:52.500 I didn't know Wilt Chamberlain. What is the greatness of Wilt Chamberlin *laughs* Okay *laughs* 00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:53.600 [JG]: That is interesting. 00:48:54.600 --> 00:48:56.800 [VD]: And that’s when the Beatles also came. 00:48:56.800 --> 00:48:57.300 [JG]: Oh really? 00:48:57.300 --> 00:48:58.700 [VD]: Well, actually, I think, I should say that-- 00:48:58.700 --> 00:49:00.500 [ND]: Beatles came when we were in Canada 00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:20.000 [VD]: Yeah, when I was intern, two things happened. Important political things. One is, death of President Kennedy. And then--before that actually, Kennedy baby had died as we’ve see in my-- 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.100 [JG]: In the, on the the paper 00:49:22.200 --> 00:49:45.100 [VD]: That’s right. And at that time also, the Prime Minister of India also died at that time. A little early. Interesting experiences, that one. As my wife Nagamani will-- So then we went to, I went first to Canada. She stayed here longer time, in Philadelphia for six more months. She joined me there in Canada. 00:49:46.600 --> 00:49:50.900 [JG]: And, you had met your wife in Philadelphia at the same hospital. 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:57.700 [VD]: At the same hospital. She was a, working pediatric cardiology and I was in the specialty of newborn baby. 00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:02.200 [JG]: In newborn. And you guys just started talking? 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:15.700 [VD]: Talking. And we will found our parents and said, could we--It took one year before we got approval. **laugh together** We met ’67, in ’68 we got married. 00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:32.000 [JG]: Oh, okay. Wow. You had mentioned earlier that--or you had showed me the service forms--For the military. So that was during this time right? 00:50:31.800 --> 00:51:00.100 [VD]: So we stayed--we went to Canada for two years. And then of course, I had some more training there and my wife had a training too. And towards the end, my boss there asked me, would I stay in Canada. I said, “No. I want to go to America.” “Well, there’s a war” and all those kinds of things. I think, here it is again, will be a bit of interesting aspect. 00:51:02.100 --> 00:51:34.200 So, I was getting immigration but at the same time while I was looking for a job. I had a lot of academic training. By that time I had published few papers and scientific presentations and all that. So I was hoping to go into academic medicine when I came to America. That’s where I got a lot of trouble. I did not get a job. It was a new specialty, and I was one of the few people at that time had this training. 00:51:35.800 --> 00:52:06.300 But I was not American medical graduate, American graduate. So, I went to several interviews, had a very bad-- I had negative experience. And so--I mean, because you want the history. I’m telling the facts. So when I was looking for a job, obviously they said, “No, we don’t know.” There are very few people, you could count on fingers, who had the amount of training I had and published papers and everything. 00:52:07.100 --> 00:52:15.700 They would tell me that, “Oh no, we’ll test you another six months, another five months. So I had to walk out from the interview. Saying that, “Thank-you very much”-- 00:52:16.700 --> 00:52:18.900 [JG]: And you felt this was because of the-- 00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:21.700 [VD]: Because of coming from India. Because I was not American. 00:52:21.200 --> 00:52:22.700 [JG]: Oh, the training, the medical training-- 00:52:23.300 --> 00:52:53.100 [VD]: Not medical training. I mean, doesn’t any more question. Rest of the training was in America. There is no question of training, it’s on the papers. You had published papers, you had made a national presentation. So it was, in a way, discrimination really. I had walked out, saying-- They were upset, “Oh, you’re very demanding and arrogant.” I said, “Sir, I’m not demanding. 00:52:53.900 --> 00:53:25.400 You’ve seen my career, you’ve seen everything. Now you want me to work another eight months to six months on a probation. No I am not interested.” So I decided to go to private practice, in Albany. And I almost signed the paper, but my boss, the academic boss in Winnipeg, said, “You can’t do that. You have done so much, you should go on academic career. And we'll find a place.” So then we had gone through lot of training, a lot of interviews in a big national meeting. 00:53:26.700 --> 00:53:30.400 Then that resulted me to coming to Cook County Hospital Chicago. 
 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.700 [JG]: So that’s--that was-- 00:53:32.700 --> 00:53:36.600 [VD]: That’s how we got-- Otherwise I would be going into practice. 00:53:36.700 --> 00:53:41.600 [JG]: Okay. Okay, and that was your experience--that was your first experience here in Chicago? 00:53:42.300 --> 00:54:11.100 [VD]: Well, when I came to--I was coming in Chicago very interestingly. In the plane, one lady, she was editor of Red Book, something of the sort. I recall. That lady said, “Why are you going to Cook County Hospital? Nobody goes there.” I said, “That’s right.
That’s why I’m going there. *laughs* No American boy goes there.” I mean, these are something interesting stories like that, I mean this. 00:54:11.900 --> 00:54:34.600 But, then I came to Cook County Hospital had no problem with that. Doing lot of good work. I mean, everybody accepted and etcetera. I had one of time, after coming to Cook County Hospital, I was very first time, within six months I was invited to Denver. University of Denver, College of Medicine as a visiting professor. 
 00:54:34.600 --> 00:54:35.600 [JG]: As a visiting professor? 00:54:34.700 --> 00:55:05.100 [VD]: Visiting professor. And the, my person who invited me, Professor Butterfield, he gave a reception the evening. And I was introduced to a various social people there. One lady, who was apparently very wealthy, rich person and she was, she was a donor for the University. And she asked me, “Young man, how, how do you like America?” 00:55:05.100 --> 00:55:15.900 I said, “Fine, very good.” And she said, “Are you learning a lot?” I said, “Ma’am I came here to teach.” *laughs* She was taken aback. 00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:18.600 [JG]: Right, I was going to say to her, “Excuse me?” 00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:45.600 [VD]: I was the visiting professor. She didn’t know. And I was looking young and a foreigner. So, anecdotes! But she was then taken aback, she was nice. And of course, the fact I was invited by University Denver to give a lecture and be visiting professor there. She would not understand, as a lay person. And also, really, I didn’t look mature, big person. Looking like young kid, so.
 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:48.100 [JG]: Right. How long were you out there for? 
 00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:50.700 [VD]: At Cook County Hospital? How long? 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.700 [JG]: When you went out to Denver. 00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:22.600 [VD]: Denver. Usually visiting professor go for two, three days. Give lectures and that-- Then I stayed in Cook County Hospital, two and half years. Then I moved to University of Illinois as head of the division, in my area. And stayed from--although, I had appointment at university, so I stayed in University of Illinois ’71, no ’73 until retirement. 2007 I retired. 00:56:22.700 --> 00:56:34.500 [JG]: Okay. And if we can go back to your time at Cook County, at the beginning? At this time you’re still working right, as a, like as a visa? 00:56:34.500 --> 00:56:46.300 [VD]: No. I came as immigrant. From Canada we came here on immigrant visa. That’s when I came as, I told you, I was also on the, recruited for the-- [JG]: Oh that’s right, as like the selective service right? [VD]: Service, I was…Yeah. When I came to (inaudible) 00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:12.000 [JG]: And, at this time, how long after this--Were you thinking about becoming like a-- 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:22.000 [VD]: I came in 1971 sometime in August or September. (to Nagamani) Right (inaudible)? [ND]: (inaudible) [VD]: Came. And now, I got these things (inaudible) Where’s the date? 6th of March. 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:38.000 [ND]: (inaudible) [VD]: September I came in 6th of March. [JG]: How much time passed after this? Where--when you thought you wanted to be an American citizen? 00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:53.000 [VD]: That’ll come. Then (to Joel) Can you give me the top one? [ND]: This one? [VD]: Whole thing. 00:57:53.000 --> 00:58:11.000 [ND]: (inaudible) [VD]: Huh? [ND]: (inaudible) [VD]: We-- [ND]: When Sanjay was born [VD]: We came up to two, three years. We decided that we’ll apply. But--so what happened this one, at that time, the people who recruited me at Cook County Hospital were concerned that they send me to Army and they will lose me. So they had to, they were trying to find how we can retain me. So, we became citizens in 19-- 00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:43.000 [ND]: ‘75 [VD]: 1979, ma. [ND]: ‘75 [VD]: ‘75, we applied. [ND]: After Sanjay was born-- [VD]: Sanjay was born. But here on the certificate it says May 29th 1979. 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:57.000 [ND]: (inaudible) [VD]: It took two, three years. [JG]: Wow. How would you, how would you describe the process? Was it-- 00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:12.000 [VD]: Fantastic, great experience. And it was kind of a, emotional in a way. One thing, we are giving up Indian citizenship. But on the other hand, proud to an American citizen. (inaudible) went to school, I mean there, taking an oath and all that (inaudible) 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:29.000 [JG]: Wow, that’s really interesting. That’s nice. And, the process you have to take the questions-- 00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:51.000 [VD]: Oh yeah, questions. And we have to learn a little bit, study American history and (inaudible) 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:59.000 [ND]: (inaudible) Stevenson was the question I was asked. Who was Senator Stevenson? (inaudible) Stevenson was the (inaudible) [VD]: Adlai Stevenson was the senator or congress--he was the governor-- [ND]: (inaudible) Illinois [VD]: Yeah, governor of (inaudible) 00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:07.000 [JG]: ...These next set of questions are going to be more about community and like your personal interest. 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:22.000 [VD]: Well I think what I’m going to tell here of course it really transcends both my wife and us together even though we are professionally different, but (inaudible) I would rather have money (to Nagamani) You want to come here? 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:37.000 [ND]: (inaudible) [VD]: Come here (inaudible) [ND]: (inaudible) 01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:39.000 [VD]: (to Nagamani) I wanted complete but I am also telling you, you can but I was telling you, you can also put in. She can put in 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:47.000 [JG]: Yeah that’s fine. [ND]: (inaudible) [VD]: Simultaneously. Well, we came in ’71 and joined the University of Illinois. And as my career was building up, and my wife’s career was building up and, there was an Indian Community started increasing here. So it was 1977 (to Nagamani) the temple thing? 01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:26.000 [ND]: Yeah, temple (inaudible) [VD]: ’77. ’77, that Indian leaders of Indian Community came to our house and they told us that--until that time, I was very busy in my academic work. But they had known me because of the various things that I’m doing. They said, Sagar--I’m known more as a Dr. Vidyasagar not as the Dr. Dharmapuri. 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:47.000 [JG]: Was that when this started? [VD]: Dharmapuri. Only after my retirement, I had *laughs* or when I have passport, I go, is Dharmapuri the last name. Otherwise, all my life, everybody knows me Dr. Sagar and Dr. Vidyasagar. We are planning to--now we are settling here and Indian family going--growing
big. And we need to have some place of worship for our children to teach cultural things. Music all that. 01:01:47.000 --> 01:02:04.000 [JG]: Maintain the culture. [VD]: Maintain. So we are thinking of building a temple (inaudible) temple, would you please join us. Said, Okay we’ll join. (inaudible) They eventually, they wanted me to--They asked me to become president of the university--president of the temple. And of course, my wife and myself we joined in 1977 (to Nagamani) right? 01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:50.000 [ND]: ’78 (inaudible) [VD]: ’77, ’78. And I was elected as a president and within the first two year term, we look for a place. We collect money, raised money $126,000 that time. There’s sheet of paper, I may be able to give you, send to you by email. During my first two years. Then, we put that search for a land and we wanted to build a pristine, pristine nice isolated area which does not affect the local community 
and it is accessible road. So, in Lemont. 01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:32.000 We bought the land. Then I collected $126,000 and handed over to my next colleague. And then the temple continued to survive, we continued to survive work and my wife works lot of programs that she’ll tell you. 01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:58.000 [JG]: Lot of programs? [VD]: She has developed lot of community service, cultural programs. [JG]: Can you describe some of those cultural programs? 01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:28.000 [ND]: I’m--mainly I’m interested in the music. (inaudible) music. That’s a music which I learned in my childhood. So, I do this--
this is the 28th year, 27th year we just completed one of the programs. There’s a annual music program which I invite all the Chicago, whole Chicago area. Even some from Wisconsin (inaudible) will come and join. There’s a homage to one of the artist-- 01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:43.000 [VD]: (inaudible) [ND]: He was a poet and he composed lot of music. In his name, we celebrate his birthday on that day. On that day, everybody comes and ings in the temple. It’s a organization, I do that. And also, I contribute to the similar organization, which is also a part 01:04:57.000 --> 01:05:20.000 of the cultural program that we conduct in May. You know, memorial weekend, three-day weekend. At that time, you know, a lot of great artists from India who can also participate--who sings and gives concerts. And so all the children from local area also participate similarly, so. That’s something I’ve been doing and then I do some organizing music concerts
 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:40.000 in the temple now and then. Not regularly, but whenever they want I just do for, for ten years I continuously did every year but now since my health is going down. So we are getting old so we just-- [JG]: It’s a little harder. [ND]: Yeah. 01:05:40.000 --> 01:06:06.000 [VD]: But in the beginning, she organized--you know at the temple was totally voluntary work. We used to go and work, cook, do the gardening, do the all the services, so all the womens-- [ND]: Yeah, we came there to cook the food for the devotees when they come, we had to distribute the food. That’s what we do--like a church, you know? Something similar to church. 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:19.000 [VD]: At that time, wedid not have employees. So we-- [JG]: I was going to say, here in Chicago there was no real like-- [ND]: No cook yeah. [VD]: Not enough money to hire people, so we used to do voluntary. I mean, cleaning the temple, cooking for the devotees. 01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:30.000 [ND]: And also even the mowing the lawn-- [VD]: Mowing the lawn, gardening and all those things so. [JG]: The maintenance? [ND]: Yeah. We used to do the lot of gardening there initially in the beginning. 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:35.000 [JG]: That’s really interesting. So, obviously, your Indian heritage and your culture is very important to you guys-- 01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:40.000 [VD]: Yeah [ND]: Of course. [JG]: You guys wanted to build a physical representation of you to actually maintain it. 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:47.000 [VD]: And also, children and learning. 01:06:47.000 --> 01:07:01.000 [ND]: Well, we also taught our children classical dance, Indian dance. It is called Bharatanatyam dance. It’s one of the ancient dance. [VD]: You are able to recall it? [JG]: Yeah. 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:16.000 [ND]: Ancient culture. And our first daughter learned and then she even gave a performance. 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:38.000 [ND]: (inaudible) dance debut was in ‘80s I think. It was ’81, ’82? She was hardly 10 year old she did a performance. And we taught the music, to sing and things of that sort.Those are the kind of things we--you know, mostly Art and Culture that’s what it is. Even now I go and sing once in a way at the temple. So it’s a something-- 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:42.000 [JG]: It’s a great--It’s a service you guys helped out for the community. 01:07:42.000 --> 01:08:02.000 [ND]: Yes, that’s all it is. [VD]: She has established annual concert we support. Annual concert. That’s going on for last 27, 30 years. 40 years now. 40. 40 years now. [ND]: 30--yeah 40 years. [VD]: Yeah, they’re going to celebrate 40th year 01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:15.000 [ND]: That’s what I was telling him. Memorial Day weekend we celebrate (inaudible). [JG]: As far as your children, you said you had three children? [VD]: Yes. [JG]: How do they feel about it? How do they-- 01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:29.000 [ND]: Identify themselves? [JG]: Yeah, yeah, like-- [ND]: They know they are of Indian heritage. And they--our first daughter used to eat meat now she is not eating meat. She is almost totally vegetarian. And, although they don’t practice religion as we do, they do think about, you know, Indian-- 01:08:31.000 --> 01:09:07.000 [VD]: They’re oriented (inaudible) [JG]: Do they speak same language, like native languages as you guys? [ND]: No. We don’t even speak our own language. We come from different states. [VD]: We both, yeah, different states. [ND]: And we speak English most of the time at home also. So they don’t know different languages. They were born here and raised here so, they know only English. Son, speaks very good Spanish because he went to Colombia and he learned through the school. So he speaks very good Spanish. Out first daughter speaks French. ‘Cause she went to school to learn French language. Our second daughter, knows some Spanish but, she's not a linguistic, but she understands, I believe, so. 01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:18.000 [JG]: That’s good. [VD]: Well, obviously you have to get her story first. [JG]: Yeah. Yeah, we’ll go more into that [ND]: But all our children are professionals. One thing is, our first daughter works for the United Nations. And she’s a--she’s interested in women’s rights and women’s gender, gender importance. In the country. 01:09:43.000 --> 01:10:09.000 [VD]: She’s a gender-- [ND]: Gender specialist. [VD]: Specialist. She has a lecture for NATO. Generals and Naval War College. She lectured for on and off. Kennedy School of Government in Harvard. (inaudible) She’s really accomplished. 01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:22.000 [JG]: That’s very interesting. 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:45.000 [VD]: Second daughter is a pediatrician specialist adolescent medicine. She’s the head at Jackson, Mississippi. Third, our third is son. They’re all 40 plus. He’s a psychiatry residency now. He was psychologist before. He’s married to woman from German origin but Guatemala. He went to Guatemala. 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:58.000 [JG]: I did my archaeological work in Tikal-- [ND]: In Tikal? [JG]: In Tikal. [ND]: Oh, (inaudible) [VD]: He went there. [ND]: Yeah, he went there. [JG]: In the pyramids and stuff like that. [ND]: (inaudible) in Tikal. 01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:24.000 [JG]: Yeah, I was there for almost three months just was working-- [ND]: Yeah, it’s a beautiful country. Our daughter in law comes from Guatemala, but her family is German origin. So they keep going back and forth (inaudible) [JG]: That’s very interesting. [ND]: And we have two grandchildren, one is 6 year old boy and one is 3 year old girl.
 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:32.000 [JG]: Interesting. … I think, I think we only just have a couple more questions. Just so--just to wrap up and like I said it's--what would you say is the most rewarding part of your work? 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:51.000 [VD]: No, I think first of all I should say, I will send my paper in the computer. I will say, it has been a has been a most wonderful experience having come to U. S. And it is a dream for immigrants and opportunities. If you work hard, you get there. And work ethics and learn quite a bit about work ethics and hard work and dignity for work. So professionally, I’ve been lucky with very satisfying experiences and I've 01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:29.000 been able to contribute something to the growth of science and specialty. And people have recognized me in surveys so I’m very happy-- 01:12:43.000 --> 01:13:05.000 [JG]: It’s been rewarding for you. [VD]: Rewarding experience. [ND]: He got an Ellis Island award--For immigrants, you know in this country you have a award for people who have contributed to this country as immigrants. And he was selected as one of the award 
(inaudible) 2011? [VD]: In year 2011, I think. Ellis Island award. 
 01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:11.000 [JG]: If you could give any helpful information to, let's say like, immigrants in general wanting to come to the United States or anywhere, what would you recommend? 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:23.000 [VD]: Well, I think my lecture. I gave a lecture on what do you call, Lifetime Achievement Award. I said, honesty, hard work, integrity are the tripod of your career. Then you--and of course you should have humanistic approach, also. It’s not just make money, money, money. 01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:46.000 [VD]: You want to be contributing to society and less advantage people. 01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:01.000 [JG]: That’s very interesting. One last question when you'renot contributing to your culture here round, what do you do for free on, in your leisure time? 01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:07.000 [VD]: Well, right now, we’ve been--what we did not touch much about--I mean, besides work here in the medical schools and hospital and research, we have been doing a lot of international work. Global work. We worked early myself, my wife, we’ve been going to China since
1983, Poland since ’89, Uzbekistan ’89, 01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:39.000 and Lithuania and India, this in ’71. So we have been giving back to lot of educational services. We trained hundreds of doctors in China, India, Poland, and we have introduced what is known as a neonatology. You heard of neonatology? 01:14:50.000 --> 01:15:00.000 [JG]: Yes.
[VD]: Yeah. We introduced neonatology in China and India long many years before. ’83. When China just opened. So we both have been doing the work. So we continue to do work. We go to India, she has been to India just now. Doing a research project and teaching project in children. So, what 01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:29.000 I have not covered you see that (inaudible) I’ll give it to you. You can read it. So that’s what we do. And even now, we both are involved in academics in the way of going on-site and teaching, writing papers, publishing papers, giving lectures. That’s what we do. Other than cultural right now, I mean I can spend 24 hours today on 01:15:43.000 --> 01:16:09.000 the computer. Thank goodness the computer. So that has been one of the major aspect of our extracurricular activities. 01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:16.000 [JG]: ... When you go back to India, you said it's mostly for like, for trainings and for teachings. Is it, is the life there different when you're there? Is it-- 01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:37.000 [VD]: Well, life has changed. [JG]: Is there a contrast? [VD]: It has changes since when we went. It is fast growing within the last 10, 15 years. It is taking a upward rise very quickly. So their economic status is improved, living conditions have improved. Healthcare was not that good in 20 years, 25 years ago. But they are improving steadily. So we find 01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:53.000 different, but since we move back and forth, we are pretty comfortable adjusting to that. Lot of immigrants don't find that comfortable going back and forth, but (inaudible) things have improved quite a bit. 
But we are also accommodating something. 01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:19.000 [JG]: That’s great. I know we've covered a lot of material. Is there anything else that you'd like to-- 01:17:19.000 --> 01:17:23.000 [VD]: Well, I think what I want to add is it has been--obviously it is a very interesting that happened that I met my wife here. Which would not happen have meet her. ‘Cause I would have met someone else. *laughs* 01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:54.000 [JG]: Right, you met her here in the United States? [VD]: And, we see the extremely (inaudible) and smart and career-wise and we have had a very good professional career. So it has been a God-given gift. Come to America and meet-- 01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:58.000 [JG]: It’s--you would have had a different life if it weren't for, you know, certain paths that you-- 01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:11.000 [VD]: And I learned from lot from her and she learned from me. And we have raised good (inaudible) and we both have been contributing to society in many ways. station and we both happened to society in many ways And all thanks for America but giving me something-- 01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:28.000 [JG]: Opportunity. Thank-you. I think that concludes--that’s it. [VD]: Thank you.