WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 01:47:38.000 [JOEL GONZALEZ]: This is an interview with Roshan Rivetna as part of the Indo-American Heritage Masala Chaat Oral History Project. The interview is being conducted on April 12th 2016 at three o’ clock at the residence of Roshan Rivetna. Roshan Rivetna is being interviewed by Joel Gonzalez as intern as part of the Indo-American Heritage Museum. I’ll start with the first question please state and spell your first name. 00:00:00.001 --> 01:47:38.001 [ROSHAN RIVETNA]: Roshan Rivetna. R o s h a n. Rivetna, last name is R i v e t n a. 00:00:00.002 --> 01:47:38.002 [JG]: When and where were you born? 00:00:00.003 --> 01:47:38.003 [RR]: I was born in Bombay in 1939. 00:00:00.004 --> 01:47:38.004 [JG]: Did you, was Bombay a town, city? 00:00:00.005 --> 01:47:38.005 [RR]: Bombay is a large city. 00:00:00.006 --> 01:47:38.006 [JG]: What languages did you speak growing up growing up? 00:00:00.007 --> 01:47:38.007 [RR]: Growing up, I went to an English missionary school, so we all spoke English. And at home, my parents are Parsi, P a r s i. And we spoke both Gujarati fluently and English fluently. And Gujrati was the mother-tongue of the part of India that I grew up in. 00:00:00.008 --> 01:47:38.008 [JG]: Where did you go to school in India? 00:00:00.009 --> 01:47:38.009 [RR]: I went to a school called Queen Mary High School and that was run by English missionaries. But it was not a Christian School, you know we practiced our own religion and. 00:00:00.010 --> 01:47:38.010 [JG]: You said you were talking about the religion you guys were practicing, what religion exactly was that, I’m sorry? 00:00:00.011 --> 01:47:38.011 [RR]: It’s, we are Zoroastrians. Zoroastrians, you want me to spell it? 00:00:00.012 --> 01:47:38.012 [JG]: Yes, please. 00:00:00.013 --> 01:47:38.013 [RR]: Z o r o a s t r i a n. And Zoroastrians were—are you gonna ask me about Zoroastriansm later 00:00:00.014 --> 01:47:38.014 [JG]: Yes 00:00:00.015 --> 01:47:38.015 [RR]: or now? 00:00:00.016 --> 01:47:38.016 [JG]: If you want, you can give a little bit, a little bit of background. 00:00:00.017 --> 01:47:38.017 [RR]: Little bit. Okay so Zoroastrians were followers of the prophet Zarathustra, who was born in Persia, ancient Persia, about 15 to 16 hundred years before Christ. And it was the religion of the Persian Empires, that were stretched from, all the way from Italy in the West and Rome all the way to the Ganges in the, from 500 BC to about 1800, or I don't know how long **laughs** But so, and then, because of pressure from the Islamic revolution, Arab Invaders, Zoroastrians fled. And came to India about a thousand years ago, and that's where our ancestors settled in India. 00:00:00.018 --> 01:47:38.018 [JG]: What did your parents do for a living in India? 00:00:00.019 --> 01:47:38.019 [RR]: My father was an architect, and my mother was a school teacher in school. 00:00:00.020 --> 01:47:38.020 [JG]: What subject did she teach? Or did she teach a— 00:00:00.021 --> 01:47:38.021 [RR]: It was a school for, in those days they call it mentally handicapped children, now of course, there will be some other more politically correct term. 00:00:00.022 --> 01:47:38.022 [JG]: Special ed. Did you have any siblings? 00:00:00.023 --> 01:47:38.023 [RR]: No. 00:00:00.024 --> 01:47:38.024 [JG]: No? No siblings. Only child. Right. So, going back, you said that you went to school in a English missionary school. What was your life like at that point? 00:00:00.025 --> 01:47:38.025 [RR]: It was just a regular day school, and I was at home and this was, all the English schools were the better schools. Everybody that wanted, otherwise the municipal schools were not as good as the schools, you know the government schools were not as good. So these were special schools. 00:00:00.026 --> 01:47:38.026 [JG]: At the English missionary schools, was that your first exposure to the English language? 00:00:00.027 --> 01:47:38.027 [RR]: No we spoke pretty much English at home 00:00:00.028 --> 01:47:38.028 [JG]: You spoke it? 00:00:00.029 --> 01:47:38.029 [RR]: and among friends. 00:00:00.030 --> 01:47:38.030 [JG]: Okay. Did your parents speak English? 00:00:00.031 --> 01:47:38.031 [RR]: Yeah. Very good English. 00:00:00.032 --> 01:47:38.032 [JG]: When did you come to United States as an immigrant? 00:00:00.033 --> 01:47:38.033 [RR]: Okay, we, so, I met my husband and we were introduced by, Rohinton’s sister and my mother were teachers in the same school, together. In that school, in India, that's where my mother was a school teacher. 00:00:00.034 --> 01:47:38.034 [JG]: And what was the name of that school? 00:00:00.035 --> 01:47:38.035 [RR]: **laughs** 00:00:00.036 --> 01:47:38.036 [JG]: Do you remember? 00:00:00.037 --> 01:47:38.037 [RR]: It was a private school, small private school, 00:00:00.038 --> 01:47:38.038 [JG]: Okay, okay. 00:00:00.039 --> 01:47:38.039 [RR]: very small private school. It was called Mrs. Jai Wakil’s school, you know. And, her, Rohinton’s sister and my mother were teachers in that school, together. And she, so they introduce Rohinton and me, and we met and then we dated each other for a little while. And we met on December 5th in 1966, or ’65. And then we got engaged on December 15th, and then we set our wedding for January 15th in 1966. And, in the meantime, he had applied for a immigrant, a job visa, he had applied for a training visa. So, as we got engaged, his training visa came through and it was only valid for a few months. So he said, You know let's get married and you know, go together. So, we got married on the 15th of January and then we, you know, got the visa for both of us to come. So, he and I both came on 28th of January 1966. 00:00:00.040 --> 01:47:38.040 [JG]: Wow. Excellent. What brought you to United States? Was it just him coming to United States to work? Or? 00:00:00.041 --> 01:47:38.041 [RR]: Well, I had been to college in the United States in 1962. 00:00:00.042 --> 01:47:38.042 [JG]: So, in 1960, you came here for college— 00:00:00.043 --> 01:47:38.043 [RR]: I went to the University of Pittsburgh for two years and I had gone back and I really just always wanted to come here. And everybody in those days, you know, it was the place to go. 00:00:00.044 --> 01:47:38.044 [JG]: Okay. Pittsburgh was? 00:00:00.045 --> 01:47:38.045 [RR]: No. America was. 00:00:00.046 --> 01:47:38.046 [JG]: Oh, sorry okay. And when you came to college, in Pittsburgh, was at your first time to United States? 00:00:00.047 --> 01:47:38.047 [RR]: Yes. 00:00:00.048 --> 01:47:38.048 [JG]: Yes. Okay. What did you go to school for? 00:00:00.049 --> 01:47:38.049 [RR]: I did my master's in Nuclear Physics. 00:00:00.050 --> 01:47:38.050 [JG]: Nuclear Physics wow. And, all your prior education was done in India? 00:00:00.051 --> 01:47:38.051 [RR]: Yes. I did my Bachelor’s in Science in Bombay, the Institute of Science, was it? 00:00:00.052 --> 01:47:38.052 [ROHINTON RIVETNA]: inaudible 00:00:00.053 --> 01:47:38.053 [RR-F]: I forgot the name. 00:00:00.054 --> 01:47:38.054 [RR-M]: Elphinstone 00:00:00.055 --> 01:47:38.055 [RR-F]: Elphinstone College. 00:00:00.056 --> 01:47:38.056 [JG]: Elphinstone, okay. And, if you don’t mind me asking, obviously, you're very science forward, very, what interested you about the field? 00:00:00.057 --> 01:47:38.057 [RR-F]: About science? 00:00:00.058 --> 01:47:38.058 [JG]: About science and nuclear physics. 00:00:00.059 --> 01:47:38.059 [RR-F]: Yeah, ‘cause it was the biggest exciting new thing happening at the time. 00:00:00.060 --> 01:47:38.060 [RR-M]: inaudible 00:00:00.061 --> 01:47:38.061 [RR-F]: Atomic science 00:00:00.062 --> 01:47:38.062 [RR-M]: Not to mention, Homi Bhabha 00:00:00.063 --> 01:47:38.063 [RR-F]: Yes, right. My uncle is a famous scientist. Called Homi, h o m I, Bhabha, b h a, b like boy, h a b h a. Bhabha, all one word. So, he was a famous scientist and there all kinds of books I have here on him. And he was one of my inspirations. And he was head of something called the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Bombay. It was a very big, beautiful establishment for atomic research. So, after I studied Nuclear Physics, I went back to Bombay for two years, and worked at that atomic energy establishment. And, so I worked there ‘til I met Rohinton and then we decided to come here. So, you know in those Days, everybody wanted to come to America. 00:00:00.064 --> 01:47:38.064 [JG]: Can you describe your two years working at the institute? 00:00:00.065 --> 01:47:38.065 [RR-F]: At the institute, it was pure fundamental research. It was called the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research. And it was very exciting, we had experimental experiments. And in those days, we had a, those, in 1964, and in those days the computers were just coming about. So, I used to work on something called the CDC 3600 computer. And that, it was a big mainframe computer and the whole room, it was a big hall full of computers and disks and **laughs** So that was thing, and then we have a cyclotron in the facility where we did atomic research and, studied, you know, cosmic rays and things like that. So, I can tell you a little bit more. ‘Cause this was the institute where I was working. After Rohinton and I met, and we decided to get married on January 15th, and we were going to get married in this inaudible big wedding place, kind of. And, on that day, our president of India passed away, Lal Bahadur Shastri. So then, a couple of days before the wedding, so then we decided to have a big reception at TIF for the Tata Institute where I worked, which has a big oceanfront, lawn and they used to set up big weddings there. So, we were there on the day before the reception to look at all the decorations and catering and all that, and we got the news, we got the news that Dr. Homi Bhabha had died in a plane crash. So, then of course, that was also canceled. And you know, so this person, Dr. Bhabha is a very celebrated scientist, he passed away. So then, we decided we would just cancel the reception, so we never had the reception. And then, a week later we flew to USA. 00:00:00.066 --> 01:47:38.066 [JG]: Oh wow. Okay. If you want, I'll cut to your husband really quick. 00:00:00.067 --> 01:47:38.067 [RR-F]: Sure. 00:00:00.068 --> 01:47:38.068 [RR-M]: Okay. 00:00:00.069 --> 01:47:38.069 [JG]: Can you please state and spell your first name please? 00:00:00.070 --> 01:47:38.070 [RR-M]: Yes, my first name is Rohinton, r o h i n t o n. 00:00:00.071 --> 01:47:38.071 [JG]: When and where were you born? 00:00:00.072 --> 01:47:38.072 [RR-M]: Bombay, India in 1934. At hospital called Masina Hospital which was a converted palace of Sassoon 00:00:00.073 --> 01:47:38.073 [RR-F]: David Sassoon 00:00:00.074 --> 01:47:38.074 [RR-M]: David Sassoon. He was a Jewish gentleman who had a lot of interests in Bombay. Commercial interests. And, he had built a palace for himself. So, when he, he gave it away to this hospital or whatever the circumstance was, I don't know, but his memory still stands in India, in Bombay. There is a David Sassoon library, there is a Sassoon dock, and several other important artifacts in Bombay. So that's where I was born. The hospital. 00:00:00.075 --> 01:47:38.075 [JG]: What language, languages did you speak growing up? 00:00:00.076 --> 01:47:38.076 [RR-M]: Well, of course, mother-tongue has to be Gujrati, which is what our parents spoke and we spoke that language at home. Interspersed with English. And, my primary education is starting from Montessori to first standard, we had several vernacular groups, classes, in between. So, for four years after Montessori, I was at a local Gujarati school, local Parsi school, primarily for girls. And, so they would that take boys until they were about 8 or 9 years of age and then we moved on to a boy’s school. And so, I was there at the Parsi school, our community school, close to where we lived, for four years till I was age of 8 or so. And then moved on to another same kind of school, missionary school, called the Don Bosco High School. St. John Don Bosco. And they had a school that was newly opened, when I first started there. And that's where I graduated from high school, we call that secondary school certificate, SSC, at that time. So, that is my earlier scholastic life. inaudible 00:00:00.077 --> 01:47:38.077 [JG]: No, I was just gonna let you speak. You went to college. Did you go college in Bombay? 00:00:00.078 --> 01:47:38.078 [RR-M]: Yes, but before that, my sister and I lived with our grandparents, because our parents were traveling all the time. My dad was on the railroads, he was in the signals. So, he was traveling, so my sister and I were brought up by my grandparents. And then, my dad moved to Bombay permanently when we were about 11 or 12 years of age, and then we, of course, stayed with our parents. And grew up in that household, with two other brothers. 00:00:00.079 --> 01:47:38.079 [JG]: Did you, did your family practice a certain religion? 00:00:00.080 --> 01:47:38.080 [RR-M]: Parsi, we are called Parsis in India. We are Zoroastrian, Zoroastrianism is our religion. Zarathustra. We’re called Zarathustris, Zoroastrians, and Parsis. So, in India, we are called Parsis. Zoroastrian is the name that the Greeks gave us. And, Zarthustris from Zarathustra, that's the picture of Zarathustra, a likeness. And, that's the prophet who preached the faith 3700 years ago, in Persia. INT: In Persia. You mentioned your father work on the railroads as a signalman-- 00:00:00.081 --> 01:47:38.081 [RR-F]: No, not a signalman, engineering. Signal department. Signaling. So, in the railroads there are many departments, permanent ways, they maintain the tracks, then the signaling is all the signals to make the traffic move. So he was in the signaling department. And, he started on the railroads when he was probably 18 years of age and retired at the age of 60. So, he spent a lifetime on the railroads. 00:00:00.082 --> 01:47:38.082 [JG]: And, you also mentioned that you had siblings. Can you please state their name? 00:00:00.083 --> 01:47:38.083 [RR-M]: Yes, my elder sister is Pervize, p e r v i z e. Another brother, younger than I, is Jamshed, j a m s h e d. And Dra, d r a, Dra is the youngest. 00:00:00.084 --> 01:47:38.084 [JG]: Thank-you. From what you remember, what would you say your life was like in India? 00:00:00.085 --> 01:47:38.085 [RR-M]: In the sense, very peaceful and great memories of growing up, and kind of, different kind of lifestyle, but very much the same as here. Growing up, we had friends and neighborhood and schools. And, we had the functions where we performed in the theaters, and the scouts, was a very important part of my life. Scouting. From Cub Scouts to Scouts and then Rowers, we call Rangers here, something. 00:00:00.086 --> 01:47:38.086 [JG]: Is that military? 00:00:00.087 --> 01:47:38.087 [RR-M]: No, Scouting. Boy Scouts. 00:00:00.088 --> 01:47:38.088 [JG]: Oh, okay. RR2l Boy Scouts, very important part of my life, growing up. 00:00:00.089 --> 01:47:38.089 [JG]: Okay you were involved with that. 00:00:00.090 --> 01:47:38.090 [RR-F]: I learned a lot from scouting. And, the school of course, very pleasant memories and we participated in all the sports, and lived a very, very pleasant life. Peaceful and serene. Religious, we practiced all the different observances in the faith, and we kind of lived together in a community of Parsis. So, my neighbor, everybody around us, we're all Parsis. So, we— 00:00:00.091 --> 01:47:38.091 [JG]: Do you think that was, like a fundamental part of both of you guys growing up in that community? 00:00:00.092 --> 01:47:38.092 [RR-F]: Mhm 00:00:00.093 --> 01:47:38.093 [RR-M]: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we would, our friends, neighbors, everybody would be Parsis. Until we went to high school, then we would have some other friends, because it was cosmopolitan. And then college of course is all cosmopolitan. So— 00:00:00.094 --> 01:47:38.094 [JG]: More diverse. 00:00:00.095 --> 01:47:38.095 [RR-M]: as we grew up, we began to be exposed to other communities. Otherwise, we are kind of pretty closed in. 00:00:00.096 --> 01:47:38.096 [RR-F]: Can I show you this? I'd like you to take a copy of this book. 00:00:00.097 --> 01:47:38.097 [RR-F]: And, here, this is the book that I have co-authored. And we have captured some articles about growing up in India. And Rohinton, this is, I have written this, which you can take parts from that and about our identity. Am I an Indian or am I an American or am I Zoroastrian or something. And this reflects a little bit about our thinking. About how do we switch from being an Indian, coming to America, and then— 00:00:00.098 --> 01:47:38.098 [JG]: Culture change 00:00:00.099 --> 01:47:38.099 [RR-F]: Culture change, yeah. And how do we identify ourselves. And here is article by Rohinton about growing up in the, in Bombay. So this will give you, and you can take quotes from here, if you like.INT: Oh, yeah, that would be great, thank-you. 00:00:00.100 --> 01:47:38.100 [RR-F]: And then it has a lot of other things. This is all about growing up in India. So you can, 00:00:00.101 --> 01:47:38.101 [JG]: Oh that’d be great. 00:00:00.102 --> 01:47:38.102 [RR-F]: it’s written by Rohinton and myself. So, you can quote from there, if you like. 00:00:00.103 --> 01:47:38.103 [JG]: Wow, this is great. Thank-you 00:00:00.104 --> 01:47:38.104 [RR-F]: It’s a fun book. 00:00:00.105 --> 01:47:38.105 [JG]: Thank-you, thank-you. Okay, where were we. Let’s see. So, I remember you said earlier, that you guys first came, both of you guys came to United States, when he was, when you were trying to get a 00:00:00.106 --> 01:47:38.106 [RR-M]: Yeah. 00:00:00.107 --> 01:47:38.107 [JG]: when you got the work visa. Had you been to Unites States prior to that? 00:00:00.108 --> 01:47:38.108 [RR-M]: No, but, after I graduated from college, engineering college, spent some time in England. And then— 00:00:00.109 --> 01:47:38.109 [JG]: How long did you spend in England? 00:00:00.110 --> 01:47:38.110 [RR-M]: About three and a half years or so. 00:00:00.111 --> 01:47:38.111 [JG]: And that was a work-related or educational? 00:00:00.112 --> 01:47:38.112 [RR-M]: Education and work related. And then, came to Calcutta and worked there for seven years with the same company that I was, I started with in England. 00:00:00.113 --> 01:47:38.113 [RR-F]: Name is what? 00:00:00.114 --> 01:47:38.114 [RR-M]: It’s, in England is called Westinghouse Brake and Signal. In India, it was called air brake and signal in India it was called Saxby and Farmer. So, worked in Calcutta for seven years, and then we moved here in ‘66 together. 00:00:00.115 --> 01:47:38.115 [JG]: And, you said it was Engineering, correct? What kind of engineering was that? 00:00:00.116 --> 01:47:38.116 [RR-M]: Well, mechanical, I graduated as a mechanical engineer. In India, I worked in manufacturing. First developed a particular kind of equipment which was called hump yard equipment, for railroads. So, we build that for the first time in India. There were many firsts in India at that time, because India was developing and there were lots of opportunities, so, into trying to make things in India. So, I had the opportunity to do. So, did that, and then, did some work in the foundry, it was a manufacturing facility for railroad equipment. And did different things with the company. And I would go back and forth to England with the company for some business trips. And then, the United States, never been, and wanted to be here and see what was like. Did not really want to leave my job in India because, I was doing not badly, it was pretty nice job. So, I came here for checking, checking the states out. But then, decided to stay on. So, we’ve been here ever since. It's been, we just turned 50 years last January. 00:00:00.117 --> 01:47:38.117 [JG]: Congratulations. 00:00:00.118 --> 01:47:38.118 [RR-M]: Yeah, 50 years of marriage and 50 years in the Unites States. Same. 00:00:00.119 --> 01:47:38.119 [JG]: You said, when you first came here did you have difficulty finding a job right away? Or? 00:00:00.120 --> 01:47:38.120 [RR-M]: No, I had a job— 00:00:00.121 --> 01:47:38.121 [JG]: Okay, you already had a job. 00:00:00.122 --> 01:47:38.122 [RR-M]: My brother was here and he had some connections. And I was given the job. A very low level job, but nevertheless, it was a job. So, we arrived here and we settled on the very first day, got a apartment and, second day, I went to work, and they gave me, gave us a little advance, and that's how we started. We came with $7 in our pocket— 00:00:00.123 --> 01:47:38.123 [RR-F]: 8. 00:00:00.124 --> 01:47:38.124 [JG]: **laughs** 00:00:00.125 --> 01:47:38.125 [RR-F]: Yeah, the allowance of taking money out of India was only hundred rupees, which is $8. So, we were allowed $8 each. And we were not allowed to carry more than a suitcase, so we pretty much came with one suitcase each and $8. And then, Rohinton’s brother, Dra, had, he was at school here, and he also had a part-time summer job in a company. And, the gentleman who owned that company was, he was our, kind of, benefactor. 00:00:00.126 --> 01:47:38.126 [JG]: Alright. He helped you guys out a lot. 00:00:00.127 --> 01:47:38.127 [RR-F]: Yeah. 00:00:00.128 --> 01:47:38.128 [JG]: That’s great. Well, we kind of inaudible 00:00:00.129 --> 01:47:38.129 [RR-F]: So, he can tell you what happened when we first came. So, you know, we just came, we had a little offer of the job from, Mr. Stewart was the gentleman, at National Can Company. So he had offered, and he had given Dra a summer job, and he also offered to keep Rohinton as a training visa for a while. So, we came here, and on the way home from the airport, Dra came with borrowed car, and he picked us up. And then, on the way home, we kind of found an apartment and, Nort side of Chicago. And, so we rented the apartment on a monthly, on a weekly basis. And then, the next morning, Rohinton took his little bit of bus money, and he found his way to the National Can building, which was way on the southside of Chicago, somewhere by Midway Airport. 00:00:00.130 --> 01:47:38.130 [JG]: Oh, that’s where I live. 00:00:00.131 --> 01:47:38.131 [RR-F]: Oh really? 00:00:00.132 --> 01:47:38.132 [JG]: Yeah, I live right near inaudible 00:00:00.133 --> 01:47:38.133 [RR-F]: So that's where we moved. We moved, his office was there, near Midway airport. So he went to work. And then, this, it's a funny story. I was in the apartment, by myself. And, I had, you know, my $8 with me, and he took two of his $8 with him and he went to work and I was in the apartment. And, I was just trying to clean up, there was no furniture or anything, it was just a very small, one room. And, there was a knock on the door, and this lady came in, and she said, Oh, what pretty shoes you have and where are you from? And I thought, she was a, you know, nice, friendly neighbor. So, I invited her in, and she sat down on the chair. And, I said, Can I make you some tea? And, I made her some tea. And then, she took out from her bag, she was selling magazines **laughs** And she sold me three years of Good Housekeeping magazine for $8 **laughs** so, that was how 00:00:00.134 --> 01:47:38.134 [JG]: You gave her all your money. 00:00:00.135 --> 01:47:38.135 [RR-F]: I gave her my $8 cash. And, so that was my first brush with American, American salesmanship. And after that, in those days, salesman used to come to the door. 00:00:00.136 --> 01:47:38.136 [JG]: I was just going to say that, back then inaudible 00:00:00.137 --> 01:47:38.137 [RR-F]: Especially with things like encyclopedias, you know they come and sell you encyclopedias. **laughs** So, I've got a whole bunch. We’d get one first volume for free and then we have to pay like $15 a month for life to get the subsequent, so we've got the whole series of encyclopedias in the house. So, that was, wow, we remember that. **laughs** 00:00:00.138 --> 01:47:38.138 [JG]: So, I'm just going to continue with these next questions, these next questions are more free thinking questions, you know. They’re not like, as direct as the other ones. This first one's kind of more about your arrival. Did you have any expectations about what your life would be like in India? I’m sorry— 00:00:00.139 --> 01:47:38.139 [RR-F]: In America? 00:00:00.140 --> 01:47:38.140 [JG]: In the United States, yeah. You know, did you have any expectations? Or— 00:00:00.141 --> 01:47:38.141 [RR-F]: Yes. 00:00:00.142 --> 01:47:38.142 [JG]: Oh, I’m sorry, go ahead. 00:00:00.143 --> 01:47:38.143 [RR-F]: Well, growing up where we grew up in Bombay and among my friends, you know, a lot of our friends came to United States for college and studies. And, I had also come to school for University of Pittsburgh for studies and there was a lot of opportunity here and you know, we both, Rohinton and I, both wanted to meet the challenge and-- at that time, it really was like that. It was difficult to get the immigration status, but once we got the immigration status and came here, it was very much a land of opportunity that we were looking for. Though we both had very good lives in India, you know, we both came from very nice settled families, and had a good lives, but it was the land of opportunity. 00:00:00.144 --> 01:47:38.144 [JG]: It was--so going on that, you had mentioned that it was the hot thing, or you know to do— 00:00:00.145 --> 01:47:38.145 [RR-F]: Yes, everybody wanted to come. After school, they all wanted to come here for studies. 00:00:00.146 --> 01:47:38.146 [JG]: Was there something particular that you wanted to go see? Or be a part of? 00:00:00.147 --> 01:47:38.147 [RR-F]: Not to see, but to live here. 00:00:00.148 --> 01:47:38.148 [JG]: Experience. 00:00:00.149 --> 01:47:38.149 [RR-F]: To experience. To move here. I liked living in America. 00:00:00.150 --> 01:47:38.150 [JG]: What was the first thing that you noticed about America that was different or most striking upon your arrival? 00:00:00.151 --> 01:47:38.151 [RR-F]: **laughs** Having— 00:00:00.152 --> 01:47:38.152 [JG]: Besides that funny story you told me earlier. 00:00:00.153 --> 01:47:38.153 [RR-F]: Having grown up in Bombay, very busy, you know the streets are full of cars and bikes and horns and motorcycles and cows. So, when you first come to United States, you really are amazed how quiet everything is, and how polite everybody are, how polite everybody was. And in those days, when I first came, I wore a sari. I would be crossing the street, and you know I would just cross the street and cars would stop. So, I thought, maybe because I'm in a sari or something? These drivers are so polite and they’re slowing down as I'm crossing the street. And then, I realized, that's the way it is here, you know everybody is very polite and friendly. In India if there's traffic going on your try to cross the street, taxi drivers will accelerate, and horn, and push you off the street. So that was one thing, you know, very striking. And, also when my parents came to visit, we lived in the suburbs at that time when my parents came to visit us. And in the suburbs, you know you go out of the house and there's nobody on the streets. And, you know they would remark, Is it like this? 00:00:00.154 --> 01:47:38.154 [JG]: Yeah, sometimes it’s quieter in the suburbs. 00:00:00.155 --> 01:47:38.155 [RR-F]: There’s not a single person on the street. Where has everybody gone? **laughs** So that was strange, but then—we were very welcomed here. We’ve never had any discrimination or anything at all. Never felt that. 00:00:00.156 --> 01:47:38.156 [JG]: Yeah that kind of leads into my next question. Did you guys face any challenges upon your arrival? Or maybe a little bit afterwards? 00:00:00.157 --> 01:47:38.157 [RR-F]: Well, the only challenge we—well, as soon as we arrived, Rohinton had a very small job, you know. It was just barely enough to make a living. You know, to buy a flat, and I have some, my first grocery bills and I’ve kept them. So, we were able to make it quite comfortably. I think it was like $500 a month, he was making. Which was comfortable, we had rented a apartment for about $130 a month. But to the challenges was that--and, he was on a training Visa, I was on a visitor Visa, so I was not allowed to work. And then, Rohinton and I both liked it here and we wanted to stay on. So, you know, I made some calls, and I got a job, and I said I won't take any salary. So, I got the job and I said, You know, ‘til I get my Visa, just don't pay me. I'll just work. So, we worked, I worked there— 00:00:00.158 --> 01:47:38.158 [JG]: Where, if you don’t mind me asking where— 00:00:00.159 --> 01:47:38.159 [RR-F]: It was at the research building of, research branch, of the Cook County Hospital. It was, they were doing, it was called the Hektoen Institute of Medical Research, and this was connected with. So it was a cold call, you know, I just called, you know it was easy to get a Job, and I was interviewed, and they were happy to have a nuclear scientist for free **laughs** 00:00:00.160 --> 01:47:38.160 [JG]: I can imagine, yeah **laughs** 00:00:00.161 --> 01:47:38.161 [RR-F]: So, I got the job and I worked there. However, the challenge came about because, a few months after I worked there, I picked up tuberculosis. And I, because that hospital did research and I was, you know, I caught some germs from there. And so, I came down with TB, and I had to move to a TB sanitarium in Chicago for four or five months, I was there. But, then I was pregnant with my first child, so those were very challenging times. And then, during that time as I was you know about six months pregnant we got a notice from immigration department that our visa was up. And we had to leave in 30 days. So, that was, you know, very challenging time when--I was telling about when, you know I was in the hospital and we got the immigration, deportation notice. 00:00:00.162 --> 01:47:38.162 [RR-M]: Oh yeah **laughs** 00:00:00.163 --> 01:47:38.163 [RR-F]: So we got the notice and we were wondering what to do. So, we went to some lawyers and, you want to tell them about-- 00:00:00.164 --> 01:47:38.164 [RR-M]: Well yeah **laughs* so lawyer wanted a lot of money. We paid him $1,000 or something, in those days it was a lot of money. And then I decided to just look it up myself, so I went to the, they have a library or had a library, the immigration office that’s in Dirksen building. And, I was looking around, if I could find some book, there was a book on this kind of thing, immigration, different preferences and all that. So, I bought that book, I brought it home and started to read, and I found a reference to exactly our situation. And they said, If you have this situation, you have to do this, this, this. And they-- 00:00:00.165 --> 01:47:38.165 [RR-F]: Hardship clause. There was a hardship clause in the immigration-- 00:00:00.166 --> 01:47:38.166 [RR-M]: So I, they prescribed the form, and there was everything. So, I looked up and got the form. And, I went to the lawyer and I said, Is this what you’re going to do? He said, Yeah, that’s what I would do. So I said **laughs** Can I have my money back? **laughs** 00:00:00.167 --> 01:47:38.167 [RR-F]: **laughs** 00:00:00.168 --> 01:47:38.168 [RR-M]: I can do it myself. So, he said, Okay but I’ll give you half of it. So I said, Okay, give us half of it. So, we took the half and settled. And then, they were very good the immigration people 00:00:00.169 --> 01:47:38.169 [RR-F]: See, the— 00:00:00.170 --> 01:47:38.170 [RR-M]: Were extremely polite and very helpful and they— 00:00:00.171 --> 01:47:38.171 [RR-F]: The form that we filled out was, there was something about, if being deported is a hardship to you. And the hardship was because I was pregnant, with the child, with our first child. So, he claimed that, you know, deporting us, at that point in time, would be a hardship to our family. And on that basis, we got--did we get a greencard? Or? 00:00:00.172 --> 01:47:38.172 [RR-M]: No, we just got-- 00:00:00.173 --> 01:47:38.173 [RR-F]: We got an extension of the visa-- 00:00:00.174 --> 01:47:38.174 [RR-M]: Well, yeah, we got, we got the— 00:00:00.175 --> 01:47:38.175 [RR-F]: We got an extension to stay. 00:00:00.176 --> 01:47:38.176 [RR-M]: And then we got the greencard. 00:00:00.177 --> 01:47:38.177 [RR-F]: But that was much later, I think we got the extension to stay here and then after Zenobia, my first child, was born, then because we were her parents, she was a US citizen, because she was born here. So, essentially, she was able to kind of, you know. We were her parents, so we came on that basis. So finally we, after some years, then we worked the way through and got our green card, and then our citizen. 00:00:00.178 --> 01:47:38.178 [JG]: Citizenship, okay. 00:00:00.179 --> 01:47:38.179 [RR-F]: Right. 00:00:00.180 --> 01:47:38.180 [JG]: If we could just go back a little bit, I kind of want to ask you some questions about the first place that you guys lived. As you said, you guys found like a little apartment. How was that like? 00:00:00.181 --> 01:47:38.181 [RR-F]: Well the first, that was just on the way home from the airport. And, Rohinton’s brother Dara was a college student here at the time, kind of took us to that general area. Because--what was his reason for taking us there? 00:00:00.182 --> 01:47:38.182 [RR-M]: Northside is better. 00:00:00.183 --> 01:47:38.183 [RR-F]: Yeah, he said Northside is the better place to stay. So then, we found an apartment right there on a weekly basis, or a daily basis or something. It was just a one-room with just a sofa and bed. And I don't even know how much it was maybe— 00:00:00.184 --> 01:47:38.184 [RR-M]: $30 a week. 00:00:00.185 --> 01:47:38.185 [RR-F]: $30 a week or something. 00:00:00.186 --> 01:47:38.186 [RR-M]: $30 week. 00:00:00.187 --> 01:47:38.187 [RR-F]: And, except that that apartment was at the other end of town from where Rohinton’s job was. Which was near Midway airport. 00:00:00.188 --> 01:47:38.188 [RR-M]: Right across from Midway. 00:00:00.189 --> 01:47:38.189 [JG]: I was telling her, I live right near Midway. 00:00:00.190 --> 01:47:38.190 [RR-M]: Oh you do? 00:00:00.191 --> 01:47:38.191 [JG]: I live right, 67th and Marquette, Marquette Road and Cicero. 00:00:00.192 --> 01:47:38.192 [RR-M]: Our offices were 5959 Cicero. Now, that doesn't exist anymore because the airport took over that the whole area, whole block— 00:00:00.193 --> 01:47:38.193 [JG]: The city of Chicago— 00:00:00.194 --> 01:47:38.194 [RR-M]: when they built the building there, across from Cicero. So, that's where it, where the airport is where our building was. This side of 63rd. 59, it was 59th Street, in between 59th and 55th. 00:00:00.195 --> 01:47:38.195 [RR-F]: So, do you want to know about where we moved? 00:00:00.196 --> 01:47:38.196 [JG]: Yeah 00:00:00.197 --> 01:47:38.197 [RR-F]: Because we were only there for a week, in that apartment— 00:00:00.198 --> 01:47:38.198 [JG]: Oh at your first apartment? 00:00:00.199 --> 01:47:38.199 [RR-F]: and then when Rohinton started working near Midway Airport, then he scouted around, and he found another small apartment on 5337, what was it? 00:00:00.200 --> 01:47:38.200 [RR-M]: 5353 00:00:00.201 --> 01:47:38.201 [RR-F]: 5337, 57th street or something, close by, to Midway Airport. And that was a small apartment and then we, so we moved there. And should I tell you a funny story? **laughs** 00:00:00.202 --> 01:47:38.202 [JG]: Go ahead, go ahead. Please do. 00:00:00.203 --> 01:47:38.203 [RR-F]: Because we moved to that apartment, and the lady, it was an unfurnished apartment, in a little small bungalow, and so Rohinton and I were looking at the apartment, and the lady showed us this telephone, old telephone that was there. And she said, this is a telephone my daughter has got that in her shower. So, we didn't know what shower, we didn't know that shower meant bridal shower. Lady was talking about the phone, she got the child, her daughter got that in her bridal shower. So Rohinton said, Oh is it waterproof? **laughs** So, and that apartment was just a one-room, one bedroom, and it was $135 a month. And we really were very worried about how we could afford it, but anyway we moved in there. 00:00:00.204 --> 01:47:38.204 [JG]: And that was, it was closer to your work? 00:00:00.205 --> 01:47:38.205 [RR-F]: It was closer, you could almost, yeah. And we had a small Volkswagen, yeah? 00:00:00.206 --> 01:47:38.206 [RR-M]: inaudible 00:00:00.207 --> 01:47:38.207 [RR-F]: We were able to buy a small car, for-- 00:00:00.208 --> 01:47:38.208 [RR-M]: VW. 00:00:00.209 --> 01:47:38.209 [RR-F]: VW right. 00:00:00.210 --> 01:47:38.210 [JG]: How long did you guys live on the South Side? 00:00:00.211 --> 01:47:38.211 [RR-M]: About two years almost. Pretty close to, little under two years. 00:00:00.212 --> 01:47:38.212 [RR-F]: And in that much time, you know, with his salary, which was hardly anything, we were able to save up down payment for a house. Which is, you know, in two years we were able to do that. So, I was still in the hospital, when my child was born, child was born actually when I was in the hospital. And then, Rohinton looked around, and he found a house which is about a block from here, where we moved in first. 00:00:00.213 --> 01:47:38.213 [JG]: And then, after the two years, you guys made the move— 00:00:00.214 --> 01:47:38.214 [RR-F]: So, we moved to this house, here, after two years in the apartment. And we moved here and my daughter, Zenobia, was just a baby there. 00:00:00.215 --> 01:47:38.215 [JG]: And you were still volunteering at the hospital at that time? 00:00:00.216 --> 01:47:38.216 [RR-F]: By that time, no, they had started giving me a salary. For the first 6 months or so, I did not take a salary. But, they accumulated the salary for me, and gave it to me. After I got, you know, after I got the Visa extended and I was officially able to work. But we bought this house and it's a beautiful house which, not this house. A block away. And it was all of $28,000, the whole house. So we, we really worried, how are we going, so we had to pay 10%, three, four thousand dollars down. So we did pay the three or four thousand dollars down, which we had saved up. Very proud of that. And then, we were really worried how we’ll be able to make the payments, but, you know it was like two or three hundred dollars a month for the mortgage payment. So, then we moved in there and then we just have been there, we were there for, ‘til 1998. And we added on, it’s a very beautiful house, we still own that house. And then this house we—every time a house would come up for sale, on the lake here, it’s very valuable property on the lake. So, the first time, there was some house available, and it was like $60,000, I said Uh-uh **laughs** We’re not going to pay $60,000. So then, you know a few months later, we’d see something and then it'll be $100,000, and we realized that, you know, we’ll have to buy sooner than later. So we bit the bullet, bited the bullet, and finally bought this house. It was an old teardown. And then we torn it down and. My son became an architect, so this was his project. So we pretty much tore the whole thing down and rebuilt. 00:00:00.217 --> 01:47:38.217 [JG]: Oh wow, you guys built— 00:00:00.218 --> 01:47:38.218 [RR-F]: Pretty much everything. 00:00:00.219 --> 01:47:38.219 [JG]: Dream house, I guess you can say. 00:00:00.220 --> 01:47:38.220 [RR-F]: Right, right. 00:00:00.221 --> 01:47:38.221 [JG]: Can you describe your job at the, your first job, you said at the research center? 00:00:00.222 --> 01:47:38.222 [RR-F]: At the research center in Bombay 00:00:00.223 --> 01:47:38.223 [JG]: No, you said— 00:00:00.224 --> 01:47:38.224 [RR-F]: Oh at the Hoekton Institute. That was the first job, I was there for only about three, four years. 00:00:00.225 --> 01:47:38.225 [JG]: And you said they hired you on? 00:00:00.226 --> 01:47:38.226 [RR-F]: They hired me on, on a cold call, on the phone. And, I went for the interview and they took me and we did research. We had, we took samples of the patients from the trauma center at Hoekton at the Cook County Hospital, and then they would send the samples over to us. And we would analyze it on a big computer. And again, those were the days when the computer was IBM 360 computer, which filled the whole room, this was in 1968, ’69, so ’69, or so. And we had to load the Fortran program, Fortran, worked with Fortran. And then, we had punched cards, I don't think they were before you were born **laughs** 00:00:00.227 --> 01:47:38.227 [JG]: I, like, to punch in for work, yeah. 00:00:00.228 --> 01:47:38.228 [RR-F]: So we would have to load the whole program on punched cards into the computer, and analyze to data analysis of the samples. 00:00:00.229 --> 01:47:38.229 [JG]: And, you said you were there for three years? 00:00:00.230 --> 01:47:38.230 [RR-F]: Three or four years. 00:00:00.231 --> 01:47:38.231 [JG]: And you worked anywhere else? 00:00:00.232 --> 01:47:38.232 [RR-F]: Then after that, I applied to Argonne National Laboratory. 00:00:00.233 --> 01:47:38.233 [JG]: Right here on Cass? 00:00:00.234 --> 01:47:38.234 [RR-F]: Yeah. And I got a job there. You know, it was easy to get jobs in those days. So, I worked in the high energy physics department of Argonne National Laboratory. 00:00:00.235 --> 01:47:38.235 [JG]: Can you describe your work there? 00:00:00.236 --> 01:47:38.236 [RR-F]: And it was, we had a big accelerator. We did same kind of work I used to do in Bombay. Atomic research. 00:00:00.237 --> 01:47:38.237 [JG]: Is that particle research? 00:00:00.238 --> 01:47:38.238 [RR-F]: High energy, right, right. It’s called high energy physics, so cosmic rays and we analyze films and things like that, data analysis. 00:00:00.239 --> 01:47:38.239 [JG]: Did you guys, I know this is like the one that they have in New Zealand, I think. Where they just discovered like the inaudible, like-- is it similar to that? 00:00:00.240 --> 01:47:38.240 [RR-F]: No, in Switzerland there was a big one. And then, there's another Fermi lab has a big accelerator, so we used to collaborate with— 00:00:00.241 --> 01:47:38.241 [JG]: Is it similar to that though? 00:00:00.242 --> 01:47:38.242 [RR-F]: Yeah, Fermilab. Right now, here, in Fermilab. So Argonne and Fermilab used to work together. And then, Argonne was kind of on a, you know, dependent on funds all the time. So, there was a lot of talk that, you know, how long is Argonne going to last, and this and that. So then, I moved to Bell Laboratories, AT&T Bell Laboratories. And I worked at Bell Laboratories, and I worked there in computer science department. So, I was there for a while, ‘til I retired. 00:00:00.243 --> 01:47:38.243 [JG]: Where did you like working better? 00:00:00.244 --> 01:47:38.244 [RR-F]: Argonne was very nice, very kind of academic atmosphere. And Bell Laboratories was also nice. 00:00:00.245 --> 01:47:38.245 [JG]: Interesting. I wanted to go back to Rohinton a little bit. Can you describe your first job in the United States? 00:00:00.246 --> 01:47:38.246 [RR-M]: Only one job. Yeah, start to finish. So, first, I started as a design person to design tools and dies. So it was matter of working things out on the drawing board, designing tools to make the cans. We were a can company, to make the ends that fit on top of the can. And then can itself. So, those kinds of things that I started with and worked on that for a year or so. And then, I got the moved over to construction. We had several plants in the United States, and we had to continually build more, because we had to build plants where the customer was. We can’t be shipping cans halfway around the country, so we had to build plants. So, I was in that group and I started one and then went on to another. And by the time I finished, I had done 15 or so plants for the company. And then, in the year ‘73 when the environmental issues arose, OSHA, and there was all that awareness of environmental protection, and so on. So, it started in that area, because we had to get permits and I was qualified, probably the only qualified engineer to do these kinds of things. 00:00:00.247 --> 01:47:38.247 [RR-F]: But you got your MS, your Master’s. 00:00:00.248 --> 01:47:38.248 [RR-M]: Yeah, so I started to work on environmental area and then I stayed with environmental, until I retired, in ’98 or so. But, as started to work there, just out of Interest, attended college, took a few courses here and there. And I was just taking courses at random, out of interest. 00:00:00.249 --> 01:47:38.249 [JG]: Can you name a couple of those courses? 00:00:00.250 --> 01:47:38.250 [RR-M]: Some would be like Operations Research, that was one. Then, Construction Management, then Structural Engineering, courses, engineering 00:00:00.251 --> 01:47:38.251 [JG]: Engineering focused? 00:00:00.252 --> 01:47:38.252 [RR-M]: Yeah, yeah. So, as I started to take those courses, I thought, might as well get a degree. So, I started to focus on getting a degree and I, eventually I got a Master’s in Industrial Engineering— 00:00:00.253 --> 01:47:38.253 [RR-F]: From IIT. 00:00:00.254 --> 01:47:38.254 [RR-M]: From IIT, yeah. So, that took many, many years though. Seven, eight years. And as I got that Master’s of Science, I thought, might as well get my professional engineering certification. And so, it's a pretty rigorous examination, professional engineering. So, I studied for it for several months, took some specialized courses for that particular exam, and applied, I sat for the exam and passed it. So, got PE license, it’s called professional engineer’s license. So I was a PE and Master’s, Bachelor’s degree. And life went on, and before we knew it, it was time to retire. There was a lot of traveling-- 00:00:00.255 --> 01:47:38.255 [JG]: You travelled across the country to all the other plants. 00:00:00.256 --> 01:47:38.256 [RR-M]: And Europe and other places, because we had plants in Europe, we had expanded. We had bought a company in Europe, in England, so we inaudible 00:00:00.257 --> 01:47:38.257 [RR-F]: By the time you retired, what was your title? 00:00:00.258 --> 01:47:38.258 [RR-M]: I was Director of Engineering and Director of Environmental Engineering. 00:00:00.259 --> 01:47:38.259 [JG]: That kind of brings me to another question. How were you treated as far as like advancement in or like recognition of work at the other company that you were working for? 00:00:00.260 --> 01:47:38.260 [RR-M]: Pretty much, we never found any, if you call discrimination or anything, no, never such thing. Never felt that way at all. If you work hard and do your job well, you get rewarded, for what you do. So, we never had that kind of issues. I had several people that worked for me. I had a group of about 20 engineers that worked for me, at one time. It was pretty nice, very interesting job, very interesting work because, we were breaking new ground everyday. Things we were learning and everybody was learning about environmental, different things that one needed to do to keep the environment safe. All the manufacturing companies would, are emitters, something on the— 00:00:00.261 --> 01:47:38.261 [JG]: Waste. 00:00:00.262 --> 01:47:38.262 [RR-M]: Yeah, affluent emissions. Water and air. So, we had to be able to control, so you had to work with the Regulators to form equitable regulations, equitable rules, so that if we could conforms to those rules, they were not onerous. Sometimes, they become pretty onerous, and you cannot meet those requirements, and then they would pressure you to shut the plant down. So, we avoided that, always. We were able to find a common ground and work with the regulators. Both OSHA and safety, health and safety, and environmental. Regulators have too many regulations, too many regulations to work with. And they make life difficult, but somehow you manage, and work with them, and they work with you, hopefully. And avoid penalties and so on. 00:00:00.263 --> 01:47:38.263 [JG]: That’s very interesting. Yeah, because I know a lot of the bigger companies, you know, they have to meet all those regulations, or like you said, or they won't be a business for too long. But it works for long term, for the environment as well. We have to leave something for the other people, especially in those times, they didn't know about a whole lot of things. 00:00:00.264 --> 01:47:38.264 [RR-M]: Right. We were all learning. I think we’ve got a pretty good body of knowledge now, but in those days we were really fishing and learning and discovering different things and how to regulate, so that it was equitable across-the-board, and not cause too much of hardship on a particular industry. So that was the EPA’s job, and we would work with them to develop regulations. 00:00:00.265 --> 01:47:38.265 [JG]: Very, very interesting. I want to go back to you and your time and your research at Argonne and then at Bell, kind of what I’ve asked Rohinton/ As far as opportunity and acknowledgement, how do you think you were treated? 00:00:00.266 --> 01:47:38.266 [RR-F]: There was no, nothing. No question at all. And in fact, at Bell Laboratories, I almost felt like the white males were discriminated **laughs** Because there was a very strong, affirmative action program. And, you know, that was, we would have programs about affirmative action meaning, you know, acknowledging the Asian-Americans. That was, I was in that group and then the Blacks. And, it was the opposite of discrimination. It went to an extreme. I thought it was pretty unfair to the white males. 00:00:00.267 --> 01:47:38.267 [JG]: That's a rarity. 00:00:00.268 --> 01:47:38.268 [RR-F]: But no, we never felt anything. 00:00:00.269 --> 01:47:38.269 [JG]: How would you describe how your interaction with coworkers or with your bosses at your jobs. 00:00:00.270 --> 01:47:38.270 [RR-F]: All the jobs were very cordial and very friendly. And good relationships. And at Bell Labs, I would say there were more, more Chinese, Asians, Indians than your white males. So, I would say more Chinese and Asians and lot of Indians. And there was no, I never felt any discrimination. 00:00:00.271 --> 01:47:38.271 [JG]: So, this question is for both of you. Well, when you guys weren't working, what would you guys do in your leisure time? 00:00:00.272 --> 01:47:38.272 [RR-F]: Oh. That’s another whole life that Rohinton and I are both 00:00:00.273 --> 01:47:38.273 [JG]: I know he, you said you like to keep going to school— 00:00:00.274 --> 01:47:38.274 [RR-F]: No, that’s one track. But the other big track that we both kind of devoted our whole life to Is, after coming here, is to develop our community, Zoroastrian Parsi community. Okay so that is what we—we came in ’65, our small group of Zoroastrians in Chicago, maybe 20-30. And then we started forming an organization called the Zoroastrian Association of Chicago and then we started thinking about building a temple. So, Renton was the prime agent for mobilizing the community, raising funds, and we got large donation from a benefactor Arbab Rustom Guiv. And Rohinton was the main person for doing that, you know, hardworking and gathering funds, and construction. And, we devoted a lot of time to that. And so we built a temple, this was the first temple constructed in the USA. So, we built the temple which is now in Burr Ridge. It’s here. And then, after we got the temple and the local organization, he started, in 1970s he started. In the meantime, there are local organizations forming small organizations across North America. In New York, in California, there was Zoroastrian associations being formed. And maybe the community was growing. Zoroastrian Community started growing in America after the ‘50s, ‘60s. And I have it all documented in this magazine. So, as these Association started forming, Rohinton was one of the architects of forming a federation of all these, they were maybe, how many, 18 associations at the time. So, we formed something called the Federation of Zoroastrian Associations of North America, which is FEZANA. And FEZANA now is a flourishing, very flourishing body. Because, we are so interspersed and spread out and so small in numbers that, unless we come together or, you know, we have really, we could easily assimilate and be lost. So, that's why this FEZANA organization, and he founded it, when he was the first president. And now, it's a flourishing organization. So that is what, and we still spend a lot of time, both of us. 00:00:00.275 --> 01:47:38.275 [JG]: What would you say was, you know, your main drive to actually start something like that, here in Chicago? 00:00:00.276 --> 01:47:38.276 [RR-F]: Well, main drive was that we realized our community, the Parsi community, Zoroastrian community, is very old and established and very respected religion. However, the numbers are dwindling and we were concentrated in India, in Bombay. Now, the Iranian branch is in Iran and the few that fled from in Iran, they came and few shiploads, thousand years ago, and they landed in India. And they flourished in India as the Parsis. And, so now, there were these two branches, and in the 1950s or so, from India, they started spreading to UK, Australia, and America. So that, we call that the Western Diaspora of Parsis. And now, in USA in 1950s, ‘60s, the Parsis from India and from Iran, the two strings, Iran and Parsis from India, are now immigrating to USA. So there is a growing community and right now in USA there are about 25,000, in USA and Canada both. So, they're growing community. But in small pockets across the whole country, so that was the imperative that, you know, if we don't kind of have some organization and we don't start building our temples here, there is, gradually we’ll just assimilate completely. So that was the imperative, and Rohinton maybe can say a little bit more about that. 00:00:00.277 --> 01:47:38.277 [RR-M]: You said it all, that’s it. 00:00:00.278 --> 01:47:38.278 [JG]: What was, going on kind of what she said, adding to that, what drove you to be the first president and the architect of the temple here? 00:00:00.279 --> 01:47:38.279 [RR-M]: Well, growing up in Bombay, you had all the services and all of the amenities that make a community. And, when you come, when we came to this country, there was definitely a vacuum. There were no such services, no community as such. So, there was a definite need within our group to come together and do things together, because we have a particular identity and there was a need to preserve that identity, and perpetuate the faith. So, that was the motivation, that we needed to pass that on to our children, preserve our identity, and perpetuate the faith in North America. So, therefore, you start on that quest and you start locally and things just fall in place, there are certainly so much to be done. There's nothing absolutely, you have to start from ground zero. So, whatever you do is a step forward and we got ourselves together, we met and did things together, we would practice our observances together in homes. And there comes a point when you realize that you need a place of worship, or a center or something, that you could call your own. And that need arose, and we had to fulfil that need somehow. So, we looked around for places that would be suitable, and we have a particular way of doing things that existing structures don't really fill the need that we have. So then, you look at building something and that's what we decided to do, to build, to suit our needs. And we built, not a full-fledge temple, but it's a temporary, it’s a makeshift kind of prayer hall. And there is a need, now that we have been in this particular place for more than 30 years, there’s a need to look beyond and think in terms of regular, proper place of worship, and not the temporary makeshift kind of affair that we have today which we call a prayer hall. And we have to build a regular temple, and that's the quest we are on and hopefully we'll be able to achieve that in not too distant future. Our children need to experience that spirituality and so on, and togetherness, so that’s the quest we are on. And then we have the community, North American community, and that needs to grow, and that needs to expand. And not in terms of numbers, and mind you, we don't proselytize and we are not into conversion. But our own community needs to be better and better, so we need to establish the headquarters for our North American community. We’ve come together as a federation and that needs a place, the office space, and administrative center. So, that’s another thing we are looking at. So, all those things, we call it the infrastructure development. So, we have to build our infrastructure, if you don't build our infrastructure, then the generations to come will not find their lives fulfilling in terms of the community. So, we have to provide for all those things and build a community in North America that the community can draw from and feel like they belong and they have an identity in North America. 00:00:00.280 --> 01:47:38.280 [JG]: Are you guys still part of the, you said you were the first— 00:00:00.281 --> 01:47:38.281 [RR-M]: Federation. Yeah, we are very much involved. There are several presidents, every four years, we have a new president, and elections, and all those things. In fact, there's a annual general meeting we hold every year, in different parts of the country. This year, it's in Detroit, in end of April, end of this month. So we’ll be visiting. 00:00:00.282 --> 01:47:38.282 [JG]: Is there talks of a headquarters soon? Or— 00:00:00.283 --> 01:47:38.283 [RR-M]: Yes, yes. We are, in fact, developing plans to build a headquarters. 00:00:00.284 --> 01:47:38.284 [JG]: Is it somewhere here? 00:00:00.285 --> 01:47:38.285 [RR-M]: Right where our temple is, in Burr Ridge. 00:00:00.286 --> 01:47:38.286 [JG]: Congratulations. I hope it works out for the very best. 00:00:00.287 --> 01:47:38.287 [RR-M]: Always, it’s a challenge. 00:00:00.288 --> 01:47:38.288 [RR-F]: It’s very rewarding to see how the community has grown. Not in numbers but how it has come together, you know, and kind of with this FEZANA organization bringing all the little pockets together, because the numbers are so small, that unless we meet, physically meet. So, we have a lot of activities for the second generation to meet also. And when we came, you know, we had this great need to be together. We sought out other Parsis and all our friends were Parsis and we got together. Now, one of the challenges is that our second generation growing up here, our numbers in North America are growing because we are having kids and we are growing. However, the challenge is how to keep them as involved in community and religion as the first generation was. We had a strong need. But our children are born here, they go to school where there may not be another Parsi for miles or they might live in a small town, so that is one of the challenges we are facing. 00:00:00.289 --> 01:47:38.289 [JG]: Since you mentioned your children, I didn't ask this Before, but how many children do you have, I’m sorry. 00:00:00.290 --> 01:47:38.290 [RR-F]: We have three children Zenobia is the oldest, she's married to another Parsi boy and they have two little boys, they live in Glen Ellyn. My second son, Jamshed, is married to an American girl they have three teenage daughters, and we're trying very hard for them all to follow the Zoroastrian religion and continue the traditions. And I have a third son, Cyrus, who is not married, but he is very much involved and all our three children are very involved with our community and our church. My daughter Zenobia, is administrator assistant for FEZANA, and she also teaches and runs a little children's education classes here, in the temple. My son, Jamshed, used to live in Texas, and he mobilized the community in Texas to build a temple in Texas. In a center, it's not a full-fledged Temple, but it's a center, so. 00:00:00.291 --> 01:47:38.291 [JG]: It’s something, like you said, inaudible-- 00:00:00.292 --> 01:47:38.292 [RR-F]: It is a center, community center and a prayer hall, very nice. And my third son, Cyrus, is an architect and he's very much involved. He’s done a lot of studies about Zoroastrian fire temples, it’s called fire temple. In the altar, in the fire temple, we have a silver big vase with a flame, and that is our altar where we have sandalwood and incense in the fire altar. So, Cyrus has studied, he’s been to Iran and to India. He studied the architecture, he's an architect. And he has had the opportunity after his return to America, to design a beautiful Temple for the Dallas folks. So, and then now he's been asked to design a traditional fire temple for Houston community. So he’s doing that and, very happy that all three of our children are very much involved and you know trying their best to carry the, perpetuate the faith and the tradition. 00:00:00.293 --> 01:47:38.293 [JG]: And their challenge is to pass it on to their kids. 00:00:00.294 --> 01:47:38.294 [RR-M]: Yeah, exactly. 00:00:00.295 --> 01:47:38.295 [RR-F]: Yes, yes. That is even more difficult. 00:00:00.296 --> 01:47:38.296 [JG]: Being like Indian Zoroastrian and then having to be Americanized. 00:00:00.297 --> 01:47:38.297 [RR-F]: And Americanized, exactly 00:00:00.298 --> 01:47:38.298 [RR-M]: Exactly. 00:00:00.299 --> 01:47:38.299 [RR-F]: That is the biggest challenge now, the second, third generation how to keep them motivated. Because, you know, any other religion doesn't have that same pressure as our small religion has, because if you don't do something it will really die. 00:00:00.300 --> 01:47:38.300 [RR-M]: Not the religion, but the community. 00:00:00.301 --> 01:47:38.301 [RR-F]: Exactly, exactly. ‘Cause ours, Rohinton will give you a lecture on that. Because, ours is an ethno-religious community. Ethno means that we share a common culture, traditions, food, music, it's all tied in with the religion. And, there is very much, there is growth of the religion for many other people want to convert to Zoroastrianism. Like the original Persians, who are now in Iran, they all consider themselves as original Zoroastrians. However, so the religion will survive, and the religion will grow, from conversion. However, what we're trying to preserve, what we’re very worried about losing is our ethno-religious community which is tied in, besides religion, with our culture and heritage and background and, is that right? 00:00:00.302 --> 01:47:38.302 [RR-M]: Yeah. 00:00:00.303 --> 01:47:38.303 [JG]: Can you describe a little bit more as far as what she was saying about the ethno, the part of, you described food, you described, what else? 00:00:00.304 --> 01:47:38.304 [RR-F]: Culture, traditions. 00:00:00.305 --> 01:47:38.305 [JG]: Can you describe a couple of those traditions for me, please? 00:00:00.306 --> 01:47:38.306 [RR-F]: Festivals— 00:00:00.307 --> 01:47:38.307 [RR-M]: It’s not centric religious community, is a community that is ethnically connected to each other. And both ethnicity and religion are essential part of that particular community, and there are few such communities, Zoroastrians, Parsi community, Zoroastrians as we know it today, is one such community. Where ethnicity and religion go hand-in-hand. Jewish Community is ethno-centric religious community. Where ethnicity is a part of the faith, part of the community. So now, as opposed to that, you have a religious-centric, religio-central community which is Christianity, Islam, where is ethnicity is not particularly important, so that there will be several different ethnic groups going to the same church. So religion is the focus and ethnicity is secondary. And they may have some tertiary connection with ethnicity but religion is the—like the Catholic church, they’re all Catholics. Ethnicity doesn't play a part-- 00:00:00.308 --> 01:47:38.308 [RR-F]: Whether you’re from India, or, it’s a Catholic. 00:00:00.309 --> 01:47:38.309 [RR-M]: So, that’s the, just to make it clear, that's the religious-centric community. But we are ethno-centric religious, both we have ethnicity and religion. Now, religion, Zoroastrianism, there are people that are interested in the religion, and they're going to follow the religion, and they're going to practice it some form. Worldwide, there are some people in the central Asia today that identify themselves as Zoroastrians, they were all Zoroastrians at one time. As she mentioned early, the Zoroastrian empire, Cyrus the Great, the empire stretched from Turkey to India. And all those people within that were Zoroastrians. Lot of them, not necessarily everyone, but lot of them were Zoroastrian— 00:00:00.310 --> 01:47:38.310 [RR-F]: Before the birth of Christ. 00:00:00.311 --> 01:47:38.311 [RR-M]: So there were millions of Zoroastrians. Then came Christianity and then came Islam, slowly there was an erosion. And a lot of these people became Christians and the Muslim followed Islam, and different faiths. But, they still maintain a modicum of their ancient faith. Lot of them relate to their ancient Zoroastrian heritage. So in Persia particularly, they practice a lot of Zoroastrian in the original Zoroastrian practices. 00:00:00.312 --> 01:47:38.312 [RR-F]: Such as one of the practices, the new year. 00:00:00.313 --> 01:47:38.313 [JG]: The what, I’m sorry? 00:00:00.314 --> 01:47:38.314 [RR-F]: Our new year, Zoroastrian new year, it’s called Nowruz. And it falls on the Spring Equinox on March 21st and there are people in Iran and all the Middle East they all follow— 00:00:00.315 --> 01:47:38.315 [RR-M]: Central Asia 00:00:00.316 --> 01:47:38.316 [RR-F]: Central Asia, all follow the new year, it’s called Nowruz. And, they’re not Zoroastrians, but they follow Nowruz as the new year. So that is one of the most important practices. 00:00:00.317 --> 01:47:38.317 [RR-M]: And, there are several groups of people that identify themselves as Zoroastrians today because they want to go back to the roots. They were Zoroastrians before and they have, they follow some kind of, the practices they have retained, some practices and they know their original identity. So they want to go back to the roots, and so we will have a resurgence of Zoroastrianism in time to come, but the community that we have, that we have developed, is distinct. Which is ethno-centric religious community where, we are Zoroastrians and and yet we are, we have this ethnicity. So that’s the community that we want to preserve. And that may not flourish, may have difficulty in surviving, but we are trying to keep that going. inaudible 00:00:00.318 --> 01:47:38.318 [RR-F]: So we have to balance, you know, we want to balance, we want to assimilate, we want to be American, and we have to find the right balance. How can we preserve our ancient customs, religion, and everything, and yet live well in the United States. 00:00:00.319 --> 01:47:38.319 [RR-M]: Always, wherever, we have settled everywhere. But, wherever we settled, we are first, we’re Americans, and then everything is secondary. So, even in India, when we settled, we are Indians first and then Parsi second. So, we have affinity in the country that we settle in. Great affinity. So, you’ll find in India, lots of Indian leaders, in fact Independence movement was started by Zoroastrian in India. So, there are lots of Zoroastrians that have been in that forefront of the country’s independence. Like, the first field marshal was a Zoroastrian, in India. So, we have great affinity for the country that we settled in. 00:00:00.320 --> 01:47:38.320 [JG]: Is there a reason, or maybe not necessarily like a reason, but have you ever guys wanted to go back to India? To Live? 00:00:00.321 --> 01:47:38.321 [RR-M]: No, not really. This is where we have chosen our place to live, and this is our country that we have to live in. As I said, we are Americans first. 00:00:00.322 --> 01:47:38.322 [JG]: This is just kind of like an open question, I guess, if you can give advice to, like a, someone who wanted to immigrate, you know kind of similar to you guys, what advice would you give them? 00:00:00.323 --> 01:47:38.323 [RR-M]: Work hard, and lots of opportunities if you work hard, there are, let’s say, level playing field in America, where you can prosper. Provided you have that inclination to work hard and do well. So there are lot of opportunities and you have to avail of those opportunities that are available. They're not going to come to you, you have to seek them out. And there are few people that the still come and settle, and we help them settle, although we don’t have proper organization to welcome them and assist them in a proper manner, in a organized fashion. But, families on their own would help each other, help people settle when they come. It's a bit easier now that funding is not as difficult as it was in the past. People can bring in funds with them, when they come. 00:00:00.324 --> 01:47:38.324 [JG]: Not $8? **laughs** 00:00:00.325 --> 01:47:38.325 [RR-M]: Yes, it’s not as difficult as it was in the past. 00:00:00.326 --> 01:47:38.326 [JG]: What about you? What advice would you give future generations or as far as, you know, maybe not necessarily United States, but if they wanted to immigrate to a different country. 00:00:00.327 --> 01:47:38.327 [RR-F]: Well, it’s a challenge sometimes when you come in fresh, but it's nice when you know you come with an open mind and want to do good for yourself and want to do good for your community. And America is a very welcoming community, if you're willing to work hard. 00:00:00.328 --> 01:47:38.328 [JG]: I think we're like almost done to be honest with you as far as the questions. You guys have already answered everything as kind of we've been going along, which is really great Thank-you. I guess my final question would be about, you know, if you guys have any like defining experiences or memories as a Indian-American living here in the United States that you guys would want to share before we cut the interview. 00:00:00.329 --> 01:47:38.329 [RR-M]: Well, there's that newspaper article— 00:00:00.330 --> 01:47:38.330 [RR-F]: Which one? 00:00:00.331 --> 01:47:38.331 [RR-M]: Well, when we first came, we were novelties. **laughs** 00:00:00.332 --> 01:47:38.332 [JG]: I hear that a lot from other Indian-Americans too. 00:00:00.333 --> 01:47:38.333 [RR-F]: **laughs** I’ll get one of the article they have. 00:00:00.334 --> 01:47:38.334 [RR-M]: So that, we were the only Indians in Hinsdale. So that, kind of, we made the newspaper, those years, 50 years ago. So, it was strange to see, or very seldom you saw a lady in a sari, the Indian costume. Very, very seldom. But today you see people of Indian origin, almost anywhere you go, everywhere you go, there are Indians, people of Indian origin that you see around. So, we sort of were the pioneers in that sense, when we came and now that, infact to buy some spices that we would want to have to cook some food the ethnic food, we had to travel all the way down to Chicago, there was only one shop. 00:00:00.335 --> 01:47:38.335 [RR-F]: Spices we had to get from India. We travelled to a place on Broadway— 00:00:00.336 --> 01:47:38.336 [RR-M]: Roosevelt 00:00:00.337 --> 01:47:38.337 [RR-F]: to get cilantro. And we can’t cook without cilantro. So we had to go all the way to Chicago to Broadway. And now, of course, cilantro, we get all our food here. 00:00:00.338 --> 01:47:38.338 [RR-M]: So that's something we've seen, that change occurring in the Indian movies, and Indian this and that, and everything else. So, it's a lot different today than what was. And your question was again? 00:00:00.339 --> 01:47:38.339 [JG]: Just, if there was a defining experience, I guess, in your time here in the United States as an Indian-American. Or if there's anything else that we haven't talked about that you would like to add, as far as your experiences, you know immigrating to the United States. 00:00:00.340 --> 01:47:38.340 [RR-M]: Just that and that and also the interreligious area, I’m very much involved in the interreligious field. 00:00:00.341 --> 01:47:38.341 [RR-F]: Interfaith 00:00:00.342 --> 01:47:38.342 [RR-M]: Was involved in the starting of the parliament of world religions that we got all these different religions together to celebrate the centennial of the parliament in 1993. So the first parliament was held in 1893 in Chicago, hundred years ago, hundred years before 93. So we got people together of different faiths and had a grand celebration in 1993, about 8,000 people came. So, I was one of the founding members, the founding individuals that put this together. And it's been going pretty good now, we've had several parliaments since then, and also the council of religious leaders, I’m active with the council of religious leaders, where we meet and talk different religious leaders of different faiths, faith communities. Before in Chicago, or in North America, interreligious meant different denominations of Christianity. That was Interfaith, then we changed that and gradually we transformed that thinking, that interreligious really meant different faiths and not just different denominations of Christianity. So today, we have and interreligious circle. We would have the Zoroastrians, the Hindus, the Muslim, the Christians of course, the Buddhist, everybody. And all work together toward making more peaceful world, a more peaceful environment for people to live in and flourish. So the idea is to generate peace, and we’re working towards that, we’re not successful of course as you see. Lot of strife everywhere, and most strifes are on religious basis, there’s some undertone, religious undertone, and all these strifes. And little by little, we’re trying to overcome that, and not succeeded as much as we’d like to see. Things happen but eventually, I suppose we'll get there if we keep trying. And that's our motivation to make a more peaceful world, in small measure whatever we can. 00:00:00.343 --> 01:47:38.343 [JG]: That's kind of what, you know one of the purposes of anthropology is to take all of the human differences and make them safe for the world. It's unfortunate we still have to deal with stuff like that today, but you know it's great to see that there’s organizations like that do that, especially like a religious interreligious, or interfaith-- 00:00:00.344 --> 01:47:38.344 [RR-M]: And, there are lots of groups that have sprung since 1993 parliament. Lots of them, all throughout the world, you have interreligious groups everywhere. And they’re doing good work, trying to keep them connected. 00:00:00.345 --> 01:47:38.345 [JG]: Do you guys have events coming up that maybe we can talk about, or? 00:00:00.346 --> 01:47:38.346 [RR-M]: Interreligious? 00:00:00.347 --> 01:47:38.347 [JG]: Yeah. Interreligious or-- 00:00:00.348 --> 01:47:38.348 [RR-M]: Well we have a congress every two years in North America, the Zoroastrian we call it the North American Zoroastrian Congress. And this year, we were going to hold it in Vancouver, but that's not going to happen, to choose another venue. So that’s for North America, we also have youth congresses where the youth meet every two years. And then we have world congresses, we had a world congress not too long ago in Dubai and then one in Bombay, in Mumbai, now. And then, another one is going to be in Australia in year 2017. As far as interreligious, we just had one parliament of world religions in Salt Lake City. And the next one is not been established yet, but hopefully it will be in India, the next Parliament. We have held one in South Africa, one in Melbourne, one in Barcelona, and Salt Lake City, Chicago. And so, next one may be in India hopefully. So, those are some of the things coming up. 00:00:00.349 --> 01:47:38.349 [JG]: Is there anything you would like to add before we finish that the interview? Maybe something we haven't talked about— 00:00:00.350 --> 01:47:38.350 [RR-M]: Well, let me add, we’re also very active in our local community. So, that with our neighbors friends and neighbors, we meet periodically and share a meal together. And several things we do in the community. I was also treasurer at one time of our local community. 00:00:00.351 --> 01:47:38.351 [JG]: Here in Hinsdale? 00:00:00.352 --> 01:47:38.352 [RR-M]: Yeah, in Hinsdale, in Golfview hills, we called them. 00:00:00.353 --> 01:47:38.353 [RR-F]: Neighborhood. 00:00:00.354 --> 01:47:38.354 [RR-M]: So we stay involved and stay in touch with our friends and neighbors within our community here. And we enjoy that very much. We have the lake here where we recently joined the yacht club kind of group that has pontoons. So there’s a little group of us. That's another interesting aspect— 00:00:00.355 --> 01:47:38.355 [JG]: No that’s great. I can obviously see you guys are very community focused, which is great, you know. If you can be involved in any sort of community, that’s, it's great for relationship building, it's great for you know, you take the steps forward like you said, you know everything becomes easier. 00:00:00.356 --> 01:47:38.356 [RR-M]: So what else you inaudible you were saying something. 00:00:00.357 --> 01:47:38.357 [RR-F]: I was just thinking that, you know, when you come from another country to this country, your mindset should be not to change everybody in this country to your thinking. You should come here with the idea of blending and making this country great. You should not try to, and in our case, we really have a challenge, because we want to preserve our religion also. So, we really have a big challenge, yet you know, we have to come with the mindset that we're not going to ask everybody in this country to convert to your views and your thinking and your religion. You're coming here to make your new country great. 00:00:00.358 --> 01:47:38.358 [RR-M]: Well, you come here to be American. That should be the focus, so if you come to America, you be American. And that’s the way we’ve always been whenever we settled, we go to that country with the mindset of being a part of that country. Our ethnicity and religion is second place, but we keep connected with our country we live in, but we keep connected with our group throughout the world by holding congress and this and that, where people from different countries come and share their experiences together. And we are all different in our nationalities but we come together and enjoy each other regardless of what our nationalities may be, but we are proud Americans and proud to be Americans. 00:00:00.359 --> 01:47:38.359 [JG]: Excellent. I think that’s it. I don't really have any other questions again if you guys wanted to add something, please do. 00:00:00.360 --> 01:47:38.360 [RR-F]: I think we 00:00:00.361 --> 01:47:38.361 [RR-M]: No, I think we covered a lot of ground.